[OT] Pravda still spreading Dissention

[Bill C]

On Dec 11, 5:04 pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Bill C wrote:
> > On Dec 10, 10:09 pm, Howard Kveck <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > I hope you realize those aren't exclusively northern European acheivements.
>
> > The reality on that one is that the Chinese were so far ahead of
> > everyone for a millennium or so it wasn't even close.dumbass,
>
> the whole be "proud of your heritage" thing is retarded concept in
> history. every person has ancestors who have done some unsavoury
> things, so you don't get to pick and choose what you want to take
> credit for.
>
> are OJ's kids proud to be his kids just because ?
>
> do sean and julian lennon get props because their dad helped write the
> "white album" ?
>
> no of course not. so why should that line of attribution be extended to
> entire cultures ?
So you equate the Nazis, Soviets, and Khmer Rouge as being equal to
the Swiss, Canadians, and Dutch?
I guess that in your world Countries and cultures that have chosen to
support human rights, education, and freedom are the same as those that
support slaughter, repression, and genocide because they both have
scumbags in them?
Bill C

 

[[email protected]]

Bill C wrote:

> Tell me how English Common Law derived from the Magna Carta doesn't
> underlie most all of law and justice in the Commonwealth, ands the US?

dumbass,

my point is : you didn't write the magna carta, and you didn't compose
the magic flute. the only thing a person inherits from their ancestors
is high cholesterol and male pattern baldness.

 

[Bill C]

On Dec 11, 8:12 pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Bill C wrote:
> > Tell me how English Common Law derived from the Magna Carta doesn't
> > underlie most all of law and justice in the Commonwealth, ands the US?dumbass,
>
> my point is : you didn't write the magna carta, and you didn't compose
> the magic flute. the only thing a person inherits from their ancestors
> is high cholesterol and male pattern baldness.

********. Bhuddism isn't a heritage of India? Confucian priciples
aren't a heritage of China?
Dude even Kofi Annan thinks you're an idiot!:
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2006/12/11/annan-address.html?ref=rss
He calls on the US to respect it's heritage of Human Rights and
Democracy, but that doesn't exist according to you.
Bill C

 

[[email protected]]

Bill C wrote:
> On Dec 11, 8:12 pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> > Bill C wrote:
> > > Tell me how English Common Law derived from the Magna Carta doesn't
> > > underlie most all of law and justice in the Commonwealth, ands the US?dumbass,
> >
> > my point is : you didn't write the magna carta, and you didn't compose
> > the magic flute. the only thing a person inherits from their ancestors
> > is high cholesterol and male pattern baldness.
>
> ********. Bhuddism isn't a heritage of India? Confucian priciples
> aren't a heritage of China?


dumbass,

are you on drugs ? because you make no sense.

you can't inherit buddhism, it's something you can read about or learn
about, but it doesn't belong any more to one person that's born in the
20th century than it does to any other.

my point is that pride for one's ethnic background is like being proud
of being a boy or proud of being a girl. the notion is absurd. it's
just what you happen to be.

 

[Howard Kveck]

In article <[email protected]>,
"Bill C" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Race" codified as race, as you point out is a fairly new label, and
> is just one of the more recent ones for grouping people. It was as you
> point out used to discriminate, but all the term did was provide a
> cacthall word. Before then the discrimination was still based on tribe,
> culture, appearance, nation, continent, etc...

"Tribe" is the phrase that I forgot to use. It can be anything, too. From colour
to religion to political identity to whatever.

> People want to feel superior to each other and anyone who is deemed to
> be different. Just ask the kids who are a little different that get
> bullied regulary at school. It doesn't take much.
> Just to touch on the rest of the stuff. We're going to disagree on
> University speech because I see stories at what I would guess is a 10-1
> ratio at least of students and speakers being blocked, harrassed,
> intimidated, suspended, failed, etc... for non PC speech compared to
> the right doing it.
> I agree that the right is doing it, but in a far less widespread and
> systematic way. There are millions of examples all across the country
> documenting this behavior.
> It's really amazing, to me that I'm the one arguing the government
> thing with Greg since he and I are still about the closest thing to
> kissing cousins here in comparison on the subject. I'd like to think
> that his theory could work for a small isolated group of like minded
> folks but this area is littered with the remains of failed communes
> that came apart in the end because of human nature.
> I was trying to fing the movie that was out, I think it was this
> summer, documenting one of the local ones that a bunch of my friends
> were connected with. Cool flashback.
> out time for now I'll find it later.
> Bill C
> B

--
tanx,
Howard

Never take a tenant with a monkey.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

 

[[email protected]]

Bill C wrote:

> Just to touch on the rest of the stuff. We're going to disagree on
> University speech because I see stories at what I would guess is a 10-1
> ratio at least of students and speakers being blocked, harrassed,
> intimidated, suspended, failed, etc... for non PC speech compared to
> the right doing it.
> I agree that the right is doing it, but in a far less widespread and
> systematic way. There are millions of examples all across the country
> documenting this behavior.

Please, in honor of Paul Sherwen, you have to say
"literally millions of examples" here.

Ben

(There are somewhere around 1700-2000 four year colleges
in the US, and maybe 1200 community colleges.)

 

[Bill C]

On Dec 12, 3:56 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Bill C wrote:
> > Just to touch on the rest of the stuff. We're going to disagree on
> > University speech because I see stories at what I would guess is a 10-1
> > ratio at least of students and speakers being blocked, harrassed,
> > intimidated, suspended, failed, etc... for non PC speech compared to
> > the right doing it.
> > I agree that the right is doing it, but in a far less widespread and
> > systematic way. There are millions of examples all across the country
> > documenting this behavior.Please, in honor of Paul Sherwen, you have to say
> "literally millions of examples" here.
>
> Ben
>
> (There are somewhere around 1700-2000 four year colleges
> in the US, and maybe 1200 community colleges.)

Sorry Ben
When I'm being hyperbolic I'll try to throw in a "literally" or two.
It's a crime from childhood, most all my favorite authors were great
storytellers and generally accomplished Tall Tale spinners. Way too
much folklore buried in my brain.
Bill C

 

[SLAVE of THE STATE]

Howard Kveck wrote:

> I suspect that Greg may be stunned to hear this, but on the issue of "race" we're
> in agreement. There may have been bigotry since day one, but "race" is an artificial
> construct that has its roots in the work of Carolus Linnaeus, the Swedish botanist
> who created the scientific system of classifying organisms (which appeared in the
> 1730s). Following along after this were any number of other so-called "systems" that
> seek to classify the human race. Unfortunately for all of these "systems," there is
> no scientific basis to justify them. While there are enough genetic differences
> between, for example, a ball python and a reticulated python to describe them as
> separate species, these genetic differences between humans don't exist.

No, I'm not surprised to hear that. Thanks for the brief summary.

As best I've been able to tell, "race" is always a folk distinction,
and not a scientific one. Personally, I have dropped the idea of race
as meaningful because I am never sure what people mean when they do
their categorizations. I continue to purge "race" from my language and
way of thinking, even though others continue to bombard me with
psychology I reject.

> Anyway, the sole reason for the use of "race"
> is to help give the appearance of support to the
> idea of the innate superiority of Europeans.

On this last point I must strongly disagree. In fact, it is a racist
statement itself. So-called fair skinned human beings do not (nor had
"they" ever) have monopoly on discrimination. Discrimination -- the
context here -- is not tied to genes that make people's skin light
colored.


Greg
melanin challenged

 

[SLAVE of THE STATE]

[email protected] wrote:

> my point is that pride for one's ethnic background is like being proud
> of being a boy or proud of being a girl. the notion is absurd. it's
> just what you happen to be.

Amen *brother*. I gave you 5 stars.

 

[SLAVE of THE STATE]

Bill C wrote:

> It's really amazing, to me that I'm the one arguing the government
> thing with Greg since he and I are still about the closest thing to
> kissing cousins here in comparison on the subject.

It's simply because you're the only one who'll talk to me.

Everyone else thinks I'm nuts, annoying, and ignore me.

You didn't know that?

 

[Bill C]

On Dec 12, 8:49 pm, "SLAVE of THE STATE" <[email protected]> wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> > my point is that pride for one's ethnic background is like being proud
> > of being a boy or proud of being a girl. the notion is absurd. it's
> > just what you happen to be.Amen *brother*. I gave you 5 stars.

We're going to seriously disagree. The Greek people shouldn't be proud
of all the concepts their ancestors developed and have been taught as
part of their culture for ages? How about Iceland's longest continuous
democracy in the world?
These things have been taught to, and affected every generation as
part of their culture, it forms who they are, what they believe, and
how they act.
Pretending that cultural inheritance has doesn't exist means that
Sharia Law, and the the Netherlands tolerance both have no historical
basis and just randomly appeared.
Cultures are built block on block from the past. Rap music is just a
variation of the "teaching song" that held sway in numerous cultures
for centuries.
I'm pretty proud to be part of a culture that developed a lot of the
thought you keep citing. That didn't occur in a lot of other cultures,
as Kurgan keeps pointing out that's totally foreign to their culture.
You're working your ass off to steer our common culture in a way you
see as better, but I'd bet you agree that the way to do that the most
effectively is teach the next generation.
That's cultural inheritance.
Every culture has bad and good things they pass on. If more people were
proud of the good, and scorned the bad then it would be a better
planet.
The problem is that what's good and bad are also cultural
inheritances.
Bill C

 

[Howard Kveck]

In article <[email protected]>,
"SLAVE of THE STATE" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Howard Kveck wrote:
> > Anyway, the sole reason for the use of "race"
> > is to help give the appearance of support to the
> > idea of the innate superiority of Europeans.
>
> On this last point I must strongly disagree. In fact, it is a racist
> statement itself. So-called fair skinned human beings do not (nor had
> "they" ever) have monopoly on discrimination. Discrimination -- the
> context here -- is not tied to genes that make people's skin light
> colored.

Oh, I certainly didn't say or even imply that fair-skinned people have or had a
monopoly on discrimination. The allegedly scientific systems to classify race have
done what I said: promote the idea that the northern European "race" is the superior
one. Example of the writings that lead to this assertion:

--------------------------------
In the 1770s, Johann Friedrich Blumenbach came up witha system that divided
humans into 5 "races" (Caucasian, American, Mongolian, Malay and Ethiopian). His
classification system centered around the "Caucasion" (called that because he
proposed that it had its roots on Mount Caucasus in Russia). To him it was the best
and most beautiful of the races. Not only that, but he believed that the caucasion
race was the *primary* race, with all others degenerations from it.
--------------------------------

Furthermore:

--------------------------------
"The European, called by his high destiny to rule the world, which he knows how
to illumine with his intelligence and subdue with his courage, is the highest
expression of man and at the head of the human race. The others, a wretched horde of
barbarians, are, so to say, no more than its embryo."
Jean-Joseph Virey
--------------------------------

There are still a lot of people who want to promote those concepts.

--
tanx,
Howard

Never take a tenant with a monkey.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

 

[Donald Munro]

SLAVE of THE STATE wrote:

> Everyone else thinks I'm nuts, annoying, and ignore me.

If you change your pseudonym to Magilla, we'll feed you bananas instead of
nuts.

Anyway I do agree with you on some details, and disagree on others.
However these days I suspect finding points of agreement with people 'from
the other side' is somewhat out of fashion.

PS Who's winning in the average number of words per post category between
you and BillC ?

 

[[email protected]]

Bill C wrote:
> On Dec 12, 8:49 pm, "SLAVE of THE STATE" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > [email protected] wrote:
> > > my point is that pride for one's ethnic background is like being proud
> > > of being a boy or proud of being a girl. the notion is absurd. it's
> > > just what you happen to be.Amen *brother*. I gave you 5 stars.
>
> We're going to seriously disagree. The Greek people shouldn't be proud
> of all the concepts their ancestors developed and have been taught as
> part of their culture for ages? How about Iceland's longest continuous
> democracy in the world?

Alþingi, the Icelandic parliament was formed in 930 (during the
commonwealth period from the settlement until 1262 when Iceland became
a part of Norway) but Iceland became an independant democracy in 1918.

 

[Bill C]

On Dec 13, 8:05 am, [email protected] wrote:
> Bill C wrote:
> > On Dec 12, 8:49 pm, "SLAVE of THE STATE" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > [email protected] wrote:
> > > > my point is that pride for one's ethnic background is like being proud
> > > > of being a boy or proud of being a girl. the notion is absurd. it's
> > > > just what you happen to be.Amen *brother*. I gave you 5 stars.
>
> > We're going to seriously disagree. The Greek people shouldn't be proud
> > of all the concepts their ancestors developed and have been taught as
> > part of their culture for ages? How about Iceland's longest continuous
> > democracy in the world?Alþingi, the Icelandic parliament was formed in 930 (during the
> commonwealth period from the settlement until 1262 when Iceland became
> a part of Norway) but Iceland became an independant democracy in 1918.
Here's another bit that had escaped my research and I'm not sure how.
Guess I gotta go back to work:
http://www.scandinavica.com/culture/history/man.htm
quoted:
Tynwald: a Norse system of Government

After conquering the Isle of Man in the early 9th century, the Norse
rulers brought with them their own system of law-making and
administration, the Þingvöllur or Thing-Vollr, an old Norse word
which means 'assembly field'. The Thingvollr was a open-air assembly of
free men in which laws were made and disputes were settled. From the
ancient Thingvollr of the early Norse settlers descends the present
Tynwald or parliament of the Isle of Man.

The Isle of Man's Tynwald claims to be "the oldest parliament in the
world in continuous existence", based in the belief that government by
Thingvollr or Tynwald was first established in Man during the late
800's. The Thingvellir of Iceland, traditionally considered as the
first democracy of the world, was founded in AD 930.

Good stuff!!
Bill C