[OT] Programming Languages

[dwb]

Jon Senior wrote:
> dwb wrote:
>> You know that Vb.net is virtually identical in terms of (the most
>> commonly used functionality) to C# don't you?
>
> As in, it uses the same libraries? Yes. But the language itself is
> still pretty ugly and (last time I checked) has some of the hangovers
> from previous versions such as multiple styles of function /
> subroutine calling. Its history alone should be a good enough
> deterrent!

I'd disagree

>
> And yes... I have used VB for a large project. And yes... it was an
> absolute c**t!
>
> Jon

Each to their own - VB.Net is just as good as C# for 99% of projects - it's
a world away from VB.

I'll concede though that if you've had C++/Java experience then changing to
C# is the easiest route if you're doing .Net

 

[Jon Senior]

dwb wrote:
> You know that Vb.net is virtually identical in terms of (the most commonly
> used functionality) to C# don't you?

As in, it uses the same libraries? Yes. But the language itself is still
pretty ugly and (last time I checked) has some of the hangovers from
previous versions such as multiple styles of function / subroutine
calling. Its history alone should be a good enough deterrent!

And yes... I have used VB for a large project. And yes... it was an
absolute c**t!

Jon

 

[Paul Rudin]

Nick Kew <[email protected]> writes:

> Jon Senior wrote:
>> Tim Woodall wrote:
>>
>>> Nobody has mentioned Lisp yet. It's on my must learn list but i'm short
>>> of round tuits ATM.
>
> Good fun, but flawed IMO. It starts with a philosophy (functional
> programming with no side-effects), then fills up with exceptions
> to its own rule.

Common lisp has never been like that - it's designed to support
different programming styles. Scheme might be a little closer to your
description.

> And would you want to use a language one of whose
> most important functions is "car"?
>

"first" is a synonym for car ...


> Also it's one of those languages - like BASIC or SQL - having lots
> of mututally-incompatible variants.

.... there's also a standard which is implemented by quite few
compilers.

Still my advice to OP is still to start out with python...

 

[Simon Brooke]

in message <[email protected]>, Paul Rudin
('[email protected]') wrote:

> Nick Kew <[email protected]> writes:
>
>> Jon Senior wrote:
>>> Tim Woodall wrote:
>>>
>>>> Nobody has mentioned Lisp yet. It's on my must learn list but i'm
>>>> short of round tuits ATM.
>>
>> Good fun, but flawed IMO. It starts with a philosophy (functional
>> programming with no side-effects), then fills up with exceptions
>> to its own rule.
>
> Common lisp has never been like that - it's designed to support
> different programming styles.

Indeed, it supports practically every style *except* LISP.

>> And would you want to use a language one of whose
>> most important functions is "car"?
>
> "first" is a synonym for car ...
>
>> Also it's one of those languages - like BASIC or SQL - having lots
>> of mututally-incompatible variants.
>
> ... there's also a standard which is implemented by quite few
> compilers.

But the standard is a compendium of all the worst bits and none of the
good bits of all the other variants - which is /why/ LISP is now more
or less dead.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; single speed mountain bikes: for people who cycle on flat mountains.

 

[dwb]

Jon Senior wrote:
> dwb wrote:
>> Each to their own - VB.Net is just as good as C# for 99% of projects
>> - it's a world away from VB.
>
> Fair enough. I must conceded that I've not used VB.Net (My experiences
> with its ancestors have left me scarred). In the past I felt it
> offered C's ability to produce sloppy code, but without any of the
> speed / power. Is it actually object-oriented yet?
>
> Jon

Yup.

 

[Shaun Murray]

In article <[email protected]>,
"dwb" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Shaun Murray wrote:
> >
> > If you want a full on IDE for C, C++ or Java then consider buying a
> > Mac. You can buy a complete Mac for the price Microsoft charges just
> > for it's compiler environment
>
> http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/express/
>
> You can get a Mac for free now? Where from?

I did say a 'full on IDE' not a shitty cut down.

Xcode is comparable to Visual Studio Enterprise which costs $1799 IMHO.


>
>
> and Apple gives it's tools away for
> > free and doesn't charge for membership of it's developer network
> > unless you want pre-release OSs - http://www.apple.com/xcode/
>
> It doesn't cost anything to access all of MSDN either.


Right. http://msdn.microsoft.com/howtobuy/subscribers/ is a figment of
my imagination.



Shaun

 

[Shaun Murray]

In article <[email protected]>,
Chris <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> I'm finding more and more that our clients are moving away from GUI apps
> and client based software. The first question they always ask now,
> before they even see any software is, "Does it run in a browser?".
>
> At least two clients of mine now use thin clients only (a very minimal
> Linux run from CD) - everything they use is server based.
>
> The other refreshing trend we are seeing is a move away from IE. Hoorah!

I haven't written substantial client side code in 4 years!

Now that web developers are finally getting their heads around the
Document Object Model and most of the bugs in IE have been worked
around, writing fast browser based apps is quite possible.

For example,

http://www.adaptivepath.com/publications/essays/archives/000385.php

Oddly, I'd been doing that before they gave it a name. ;-)

Shaun

 

[dwb]

Shaun Murray wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "dwb" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> and Apple gives it's tools away for
>>> free and doesn't charge for membership of it's developer network
>>> unless you want pre-release OSs - http://www.apple.com/xcode/
>>
>> It doesn't cost anything to access all of MSDN either.
>
>
> Right. http://msdn.microsoft.com/howtobuy/subscribers/ is a figment of
> my imagination.

That is to get copies of the Microsoft software, or the O/S pre-releases -
so exactly the same as your example.
There are hundreds of tools, howto's and everything else under the sun
absolutely FOC on the MS site.

I sense we're not going to agree on this though, and to be frank, I don't
care enough to argue about it either.

 

[Shaun Murray]

In article <[email protected]>,
"dwb" <[email protected]> wrote:


>
> That is to get copies of the Microsoft software, or the O/S pre-releases -
> so exactly the same as your example.


Not at all. MS Don't give away copies of Visual Studio Enterprise, which
is essentially what Apple do by giving away Xcode.

> There are hundreds of tools, howto's and everything else under the sun
> absolutely FOC on the MS site.
>
> I sense we're not going to agree on this though, and to be frank, I don't
> care enough to argue about it either.

No, Don't care at all. Not since 10.4 came out a couple of days ago. ;-)

Shaun