OT: Rode my bike this morning, in 17 degree weather!

Discussion in 'Food and nutrition' started by Bob Mauri, Dec 15, 2004.

  1. Bob Mauri

    Bob Mauri Guest

    It took me about 30 minutes just to put on all of my layers! The good
    news is that I wasn't cold. The bad news is that I look like the
    Pillsbury Dough Boy and can barely move with all those clothes. It takes
    me an extra 20 minutes to ride the same distance using my mountain bike
    (and the 4 layers of clothes) as opposed to my racing bike!

    Bring on the snow!

    --
    Bob in CT
     
    Tags:


  2. Bob Mauri

    Bob Mauri Guest

    On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 08:47:20 -0500, Roger Zoul <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    > Bob Mauri wrote:
    > :: It took me about 30 minutes just to put on all of my layers! The
    > :: good news is that I wasn't cold. The bad news is that I look like
    > :: the Pillsbury Dough Boy and can barely move with all those clothes.
    > :: It takes me an extra 20 minutes to ride the same distance using my
    > :: mountain bike (and the 4 layers of clothes) as opposed to my racing
    > :: bike!
    >
    > I don't like riding in the cold. Less than 40 degs starts to beg the
    > question.
    >
    >
    >


    It is quite a bit different. But, here in CT, I'd rather ride in the cold
    than workout inside. I plan on only riding twice a week and going to the
    gym twice a week. I think I'd go crazy if I had to workout inside four
    days a week. Plus, exercising outside is always harder than exercising on
    a machine, and I can practice things (like standing, pedaling -- or is it
    pedalling? -- smoothly, etc.) that I'll use next year. Riding in the cold
    also takes so much longer to get dressed.

    --
    Bob in CT
     
  3. Roger Zoul

    Roger Zoul Guest

    Bob Mauri wrote:
    :: It took me about 30 minutes just to put on all of my layers! The
    :: good news is that I wasn't cold. The bad news is that I look like
    :: the Pillsbury Dough Boy and can barely move with all those clothes.
    :: It takes me an extra 20 minutes to ride the same distance using my
    :: mountain bike (and the 4 layers of clothes) as opposed to my racing
    :: bike!

    I don't like riding in the cold. Less than 40 degs starts to beg the
    question.
     
  4. Roger Zoul

    Roger Zoul Guest

    Bob Mauri wrote:
    :: On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 08:47:20 -0500, Roger Zoul
    :: <[email protected]> wrote:
    ::
    ::: Bob Mauri wrote:
    ::::: It took me about 30 minutes just to put on all of my layers! The
    ::::: good news is that I wasn't cold. The bad news is that I look like
    ::::: the Pillsbury Dough Boy and can barely move with all those
    ::::: clothes. It takes me an extra 20 minutes to ride the same
    ::::: distance using my mountain bike (and the 4 layers of clothes) as
    ::::: opposed to my racing bike!
    :::
    ::: I don't like riding in the cold. Less than 40 degs starts to beg the
    ::: question.

    ::
    :: It is quite a bit different. But, here in CT, I'd rather ride in
    :: the cold than workout inside. I plan on only riding twice a week
    :: and going to the gym twice a week. I think I'd go crazy if I had to
    :: workout inside four days a week. Plus, exercising outside is always
    :: harder than exercising on a machine, and I can practice things (like
    :: standing, pedaling -- or is it pedalling? -- smoothly, etc.) that
    :: I'll use next year. Riding in the cold also takes so much longer to
    :: get dressed.

    I find the length of time it takes to dress only one of the problems I have
    with cold-weather riding. The other, bigger problem in my mind is just
    figuring out how many layers to wear for a particular set of riding
    conditions. What to wear at 40 deg, 30 degs, 20, degs, and then what about
    wind conditions. You've got hands, chest, neck, face, hands and feet to
    worry about. The complications AND expenses (that's a big component too)
    seem endless and given all of that, I'd rather workout inside. So, I'll
    ride on the warmer days (we're in a cold spell at the moment, but some
    warmer ones will come) and cross train as much as possible. I've been doing
    stationary biking (at the gym and at home), dreadmilling, and even some
    walking outside (easier than riding, imo), in addition to lifting 3X per
    week.
     
  5. Bob Mauri

    Bob Mauri Guest

    On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 11:31:55 -0500, Roger Zoul <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    > Bob Mauri wrote:
    > :: On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 08:47:20 -0500, Roger Zoul
    > :: <[email protected]> wrote:
    > ::
    > ::: Bob Mauri wrote:
    > ::::: It took me about 30 minutes just to put on all of my layers! The
    > ::::: good news is that I wasn't cold. The bad news is that I look like
    > ::::: the Pillsbury Dough Boy and can barely move with all those
    > ::::: clothes. It takes me an extra 20 minutes to ride the same
    > ::::: distance using my mountain bike (and the 4 layers of clothes) as
    > ::::: opposed to my racing bike!
    > :::
    > ::: I don't like riding in the cold. Less than 40 degs starts to beg the
    > ::: question.
    >
    > ::
    > :: It is quite a bit different. But, here in CT, I'd rather ride in
    > :: the cold than workout inside. I plan on only riding twice a week
    > :: and going to the gym twice a week. I think I'd go crazy if I had to
    > :: workout inside four days a week. Plus, exercising outside is always
    > :: harder than exercising on a machine, and I can practice things (like
    > :: standing, pedaling -- or is it pedalling? -- smoothly, etc.) that
    > :: I'll use next year. Riding in the cold also takes so much longer to
    > :: get dressed.
    >
    > I find the length of time it takes to dress only one of the problems I
    > have
    > with cold-weather riding. The other, bigger problem in my mind is just
    > figuring out how many layers to wear for a particular set of riding
    > conditions. What to wear at 40 deg, 30 degs, 20, degs, and then what
    > about
    > wind conditions. You've got hands, chest, neck, face, hands and feet to
    > worry about. The complications AND expenses (that's a big component too)
    > seem endless and given all of that, I'd rather workout inside. So, I'll
    > ride on the warmer days (we're in a cold spell at the moment, but some
    > warmer ones will come) and cross train as much as possible. I've been
    > doing
    > stationary biking (at the gym and at home), dreadmilling, and even some
    > walking outside (easier than riding, imo), in addition to lifting 3X per
    > week.
    >
    >


    That is true -- biking in the cold can be expensive.

    --
    Bob in CT
     
  6. FOB

    FOB Guest

  7. Xtile

    Xtile Guest

    Bob Mauri wrote:
    > It took me about 30 minutes just to put on all of my layers! The good
    > news is that I wasn't cold. The bad news is that I look like the
    > Pillsbury Dough Boy and can barely move with all those clothes. It
    > takes me an extra 20 minutes to ride the same distance using my
    > mountain bike (and the 4 layers of clothes) as opposed to my racing bike!
    >
    > Bring on the snow!
    >

    And you didn't even crash! ;>)
     
  8. jbuch

    jbuch Guest

    Bob Mauri wrote:

    > It took me about 30 minutes just to put on all of my layers! The good
    > news is that I wasn't cold. The bad news is that I look like the
    > Pillsbury Dough Boy and can barely move with all those clothes. It
    > takes me an extra 20 minutes to ride the same distance using my
    > mountain bike (and the 4 layers of clothes) as opposed to my racing bike!
    >
    > Bring on the snow!
    >



    Why on earth do you need so many layers?

    What are they?

    Since subscribing to the "ICEBIKE" list server, where people who live in
    Canada and Alaske and the Northern US States who ride regularly in the
    winter.....

    I have stopped putting on so darned many clothes because I am over
    dressed and if not careful will get cold from the excess sweat.

    Yesterday, I rode in 17 F weather in Iowa. I had on just three layers
    on top.... a thin CoolMAX long sleeved underwear, a midweight polyester
    fleece shirt and a Columbia Titanium waterproof breathable shell (no
    lining zipped in) with the pit zips fully OPEN.

    I used just one bottom layer, a windproof fleece pant that I got from
    Target last year on clearance for about $12 (list price about $35.00).
    The zips at the bottom of the legs were OPEN for ventilation. They were
    almost too warm.

    I was quite warm and at times took off my fleece cap to avoid overheating.

    After reading the ICEBIKE archives about what to wear for what
    temperatures, I realized that for the last few years, I have been
    overdressing for winter rides. And that has been the cause of much of my
    discomfort.

    Rarely have I ever zipped up my windbreaker on the top, because I overheat.

    I don't ride nuts at top speed like many proud posters here do. I go
    shopping for food and clothers and stuff and consider 15 miles in a day
    quite an accomplishment.

    I would recommend that you try several places for more guidlines on
    dressing for winter bike riding.....

    This is a nice graphic on what torwear for winter bike riding in
    Colorado, put out by the state of Colorado, Department of Transportation.

    http://www.dot.state.co.us/BikePed/Maps/Weather Gear.pdf

    There is an ICEBIKE web page. Go there too. Tons of information. And
    links to the archives of the ICEBIKE list server.

    http://www.icebike.com/

    Today it got up to almost 38F, and today I did NOT use the windproof
    fleece pants, as they would have been too warm. I used some very light
    tights (just athletic cheap ones, not bike tights) under windpants
    because the winds were up to 15 mph. I wore the same top components and
    mostly had to unbutton the fleece shirt and unzip the windproof shell.
    Instead of a warm fleece hat (which I had in a pocket) I used a cotton
    baseball cap and a fleece band over the ears when they got cold. Quite a
    bit of the time, I took off the gloves (I should have carried the summer
    gloves as spares, but forgot).

    I was quite warm coming home.

    Last year, I would have had more layers and may have sweated more.

    So, for heaven's sake, don't get too bundled up.

    I know, I used to make that mistake. But, of course, carry something to
    throw on to keep warm if you blow a tire and have to change it or repair
    it and aren't moving and pedaling to keep toasty warm.

    If you are too hot, slow down ( and take off your hat, unzip,.. and
    finally remove an extra layer).

    If you are too cold, pedal faster to burn up more energy.

    If the wind penetrates your clothes, you were dumb enogh not to have
    used windproof layers in the system.

    But, get out there and keep on experimentsing and you will find that it
    is almost certain that you overdressed.

    Keep notes for a while on what the temperature and wind conditions were,
    what you wore and how your felt.

    That is such good and vital advice, I may actually do it myself.

    I wish I had done it years ago..... I would have figured out how badly I
    was overdressed.

    I wouldn't have believed the overdressing except for what the guys and
    gals in Alaska and Canada wear..... and enjoy riding on snow and ice.

    Jim

    Riding Through The Winter in IOWA, and enjoying it. (Studded Snow Tires
    for the ice and snow)

    --
    ................................


    Keepsake gift for young girls.
    Unique and personal one-of-a-kind.
    Builds strong minds 12 ways.
    Guaranteed satisfaction
    - courteous money back
    - keep bonus gifts

    http://www.alicebook.com
     
  9. Roger Zoul

    Roger Zoul Guest

    FOB wrote:
    :: Is that a Freudian typo?

    I don't think so....I dread the tread.....(not really)

    ::
    :: In news:[email protected],
    :: Roger Zoul <[email protected]> stated
    ::
    :: dreadmilling,
     
  10. Roger Zoul

    Roger Zoul Guest

    jbuch wrote:
    :: Bob Mauri wrote:
    ::
    ::: It took me about 30 minutes just to put on all of my layers! The
    ::: good news is that I wasn't cold. The bad news is that I look like
    ::: the Pillsbury Dough Boy and can barely move with all those clothes.
    ::: It
    ::: takes me an extra 20 minutes to ride the same distance using my
    ::: mountain bike (and the 4 layers of clothes) as opposed to my
    ::: racing bike!
    :::
    ::: Bring on the snow!
    :::
    ::
    ::
    :: Why on earth do you need so many layers?
    ::
    :: What are they?
    ::
    :: Since subscribing to the "ICEBIKE" list server, where people who
    :: live in Canada and Alaske and the Northern US States who ride
    :: regularly in the winter.....
    ::
    :: I have stopped putting on so darned many clothes because I am over
    :: dressed and if not careful will get cold from the excess sweat.
    ::
    :: Yesterday, I rode in 17 F weather in Iowa. I had on just three
    :: layers
    :: on top.... a thin CoolMAX long sleeved underwear, a midweight
    :: polyester fleece shirt and a Columbia Titanium waterproof breathable
    :: shell (no lining zipped in) with the pit zips fully OPEN.
    ::
    :: I used just one bottom layer, a windproof fleece pant that I got from
    :: Target last year on clearance for about $12 (list price about
    :: $35.00).
    :: The zips at the bottom of the legs were OPEN for ventilation. They
    :: were almost too warm.
    ::
    :: I was quite warm and at times took off my fleece cap to avoid
    :: overheating.
    ::
    :: After reading the ICEBIKE archives about what to wear for what
    :: temperatures, I realized that for the last few years, I have been
    :: overdressing for winter rides. And that has been the cause of much
    :: of my discomfort.
    ::
    :: Rarely have I ever zipped up my windbreaker on the top, because I
    :: overheat.
    ::
    :: I don't ride nuts at top speed like many proud posters here do. I go
    :: shopping for food and clothers and stuff and consider 15 miles in a
    :: day quite an accomplishment.
    ::
    :: I would recommend that you try several places for more guidlines on
    :: dressing for winter bike riding.....
    ::
    :: This is a nice graphic on what torwear for winter bike riding in
    :: Colorado, put out by the state of Colorado, Department of
    :: Transportation.
    ::
    :: http://www.dot.state.co.us/BikePed/Maps/Weather Gear.pdf
    ::
    :: There is an ICEBIKE web page. Go there too. Tons of information. And
    :: links to the archives of the ICEBIKE list server.
    ::
    :: http://www.icebike.com/
    ::
    :: Today it got up to almost 38F, and today I did NOT use the windproof
    :: fleece pants, as they would have been too warm. I used some very
    :: light tights (just athletic cheap ones, not bike tights) under
    :: windpants
    :: because the winds were up to 15 mph. I wore the same top components
    :: and mostly had to unbutton the fleece shirt and unzip the windproof
    :: shell. Instead of a warm fleece hat (which I had in a pocket) I used
    :: a cotton baseball cap and a fleece band over the ears when they got
    :: cold. Quite a bit of the time, I took off the gloves (I should have
    :: carried the summer gloves as spares, but forgot).
    ::
    :: I was quite warm coming home.
    ::
    :: Last year, I would have had more layers and may have sweated more.
    ::
    :: So, for heaven's sake, don't get too bundled up.
    ::
    :: I know, I used to make that mistake. But, of course, carry something
    :: to throw on to keep warm if you blow a tire and have to change it or
    :: repair it and aren't moving and pedaling to keep toasty warm.
    ::
    :: If you are too hot, slow down ( and take off your hat, unzip,.. and
    :: finally remove an extra layer).
    ::
    :: If you are too cold, pedal faster to burn up more energy.
    ::
    :: If the wind penetrates your clothes, you were dumb enogh not to have
    :: used windproof layers in the system.
    ::
    :: But, get out there and keep on experimentsing and you will find that
    :: it
    :: is almost certain that you overdressed.
    ::
    :: Keep notes for a while on what the temperature and wind conditions
    :: were, what you wore and how your felt.
    ::
    :: That is such good and vital advice, I may actually do it myself.
    ::
    :: I wish I had done it years ago..... I would have figured out how
    :: badly I was overdressed.
    ::
    :: I wouldn't have believed the overdressing except for what the guys
    :: and gals in Alaska and Canada wear..... and enjoy riding on snow and
    :: ice.
    ::
    :: Jim
    ::

    Dude -- everyone is not the same. What works for you won't necessarily work
    for someone else. The info on the sites are just guidelines...people have to
    tweak to find what works for them. I know quickly if I'm over dressed on a
    ride and I peal layers as a result. That is a good reason to do layers in
    teh first place, so you can peal as needed (more important on a longer ride
    when conditions and temps can change a good bit) Also, 15 miles doesn't
    quite do it for me. I don't even want to ride if I can just get in 15
    miles. I need at least 30 miles to feel as if I've done something.
     
  11. jbuch

    jbuch Guest

    Roger Zoul wrote:

    > jbuch wrote:
    > :: Bob Mauri wrote:
    > ::
    > ::: It took me about 30 minutes just to put on all of my layers! The
    > ::: good news is that I wasn't cold. The bad news is that I look like
    > ::: the Pillsbury Dough Boy and can barely move with all those clothes.
    > ::: It
    > ::: takes me an extra 20 minutes to ride the same distance using my
    > ::: mountain bike (and the 4 layers of clothes) as opposed to my
    > ::: racing bike!
    > :::
    > ::: Bring on the snow!
    > :::
    > ::
    > ::
    > :: Why on earth do you need so many layers?
    > ::
    > :: What are they?
    > ::
    > :: Since subscribing to the "ICEBIKE" list server, where people who
    > :: live in Canada and Alaske and the Northern US States who ride
    > :: regularly in the winter.....
    > ::
    > :: I have stopped putting on so darned many clothes because I am over
    > :: dressed and if not careful will get cold from the excess sweat.
    > ::
    > :: Yesterday, I rode in 17 F weather in Iowa. I had on just three
    > :: layers
    > :: on top.... a thin CoolMAX long sleeved underwear, a midweight
    > :: polyester fleece shirt and a Columbia Titanium waterproof breathable
    > :: shell (no lining zipped in) with the pit zips fully OPEN.
    > ::
    > :: I used just one bottom layer, a windproof fleece pant that I got from
    > :: Target last year on clearance for about $12 (list price about
    > :: $35.00).
    > :: The zips at the bottom of the legs were OPEN for ventilation. They
    > :: were almost too warm.
    > ::
    > :: I was quite warm and at times took off my fleece cap to avoid
    > :: overheating.
    > ::
    > :: After reading the ICEBIKE archives about what to wear for what
    > :: temperatures, I realized that for the last few years, I have been
    > :: overdressing for winter rides. And that has been the cause of much
    > :: of my discomfort.
    > ::
    > :: Rarely have I ever zipped up my windbreaker on the top, because I
    > :: overheat.
    > ::
    > :: I don't ride nuts at top speed like many proud posters here do. I go
    > :: shopping for food and clothers and stuff and consider 15 miles in a
    > :: day quite an accomplishment.
    > ::
    > :: I would recommend that you try several places for more guidlines on
    > :: dressing for winter bike riding.....
    > ::
    > :: This is a nice graphic on what torwear for winter bike riding in
    > :: Colorado, put out by the state of Colorado, Department of
    > :: Transportation.
    > ::
    > :: http://www.dot.state.co.us/BikePed/Maps/Weather Gear.pdf
    > ::
    > :: There is an ICEBIKE web page. Go there too. Tons of information. And
    > :: links to the archives of the ICEBIKE list server.
    > ::
    > :: http://www.icebike.com/
    > ::
    > :: Today it got up to almost 38F, and today I did NOT use the windproof
    > :: fleece pants, as they would have been too warm. I used some very
    > :: light tights (just athletic cheap ones, not bike tights) under
    > :: windpants
    > :: because the winds were up to 15 mph. I wore the same top components
    > :: and mostly had to unbutton the fleece shirt and unzip the windproof
    > :: shell. Instead of a warm fleece hat (which I had in a pocket) I used
    > :: a cotton baseball cap and a fleece band over the ears when they got
    > :: cold. Quite a bit of the time, I took off the gloves (I should have
    > :: carried the summer gloves as spares, but forgot).
    > ::
    > :: I was quite warm coming home.
    > ::
    > :: Last year, I would have had more layers and may have sweated more.
    > ::
    > :: So, for heaven's sake, don't get too bundled up.
    > ::
    > :: I know, I used to make that mistake. But, of course, carry something
    > :: to throw on to keep warm if you blow a tire and have to change it or
    > :: repair it and aren't moving and pedaling to keep toasty warm.
    > ::
    > :: If you are too hot, slow down ( and take off your hat, unzip,.. and
    > :: finally remove an extra layer).
    > ::
    > :: If you are too cold, pedal faster to burn up more energy.
    > ::
    > :: If the wind penetrates your clothes, you were dumb enogh not to have
    > :: used windproof layers in the system.
    > ::
    > :: But, get out there and keep on experimentsing and you will find that
    > :: it
    > :: is almost certain that you overdressed.
    > ::
    > :: Keep notes for a while on what the temperature and wind conditions
    > :: were, what you wore and how your felt.
    > ::
    > :: That is such good and vital advice, I may actually do it myself.
    > ::
    > :: I wish I had done it years ago..... I would have figured out how
    > :: badly I was overdressed.
    > ::
    > :: I wouldn't have believed the overdressing except for what the guys
    > :: and gals in Alaska and Canada wear..... and enjoy riding on snow and
    > :: ice.
    > ::
    > :: Jim
    > ::
    >
    > Dude -- everyone is not the same. What works for you won't necessarily work
    > for someone else. The info on the sites are just guidelines...people have to
    > tweak to find what works for them. I know quickly if I'm over dressed on a
    > ride and I peal layers as a result. That is a good reason to do layers in
    > teh first place, so you can peal as needed (more important on a longer ride
    > when conditions and temps can change a good bit) Also, 15 miles doesn't
    > quite do it for me. I don't even want to ride if I can just get in 15
    > miles. I need at least 30 miles to feel as if I've done something.
    >
    >

    Roger, when you replied to the original poster, you left little room for
    the opinion that what works for you may not work for anyone else......

    Now, you ARE of the opinion that what works for me (and all those people
    on the ICEBIKE list from Alaska, Canada and the Northern USA) may not be
    good advice.

    Think about it.

    You are normally one of those few voices of reason and common sense here.

    I enjoy reading your.

    Jim

    --
    ................................


    Keepsake gift for young girls.
    Unique and personal one-of-a-kind.
    Builds strong minds 12 ways.
    Guaranteed satisfaction
    - courteous money back
    - keep bonus gifts

    http://www.alicebook.com
     
  12. Roger Zoul

    Roger Zoul Guest

    jbuch wrote:
    || Roger Zoul wrote:
    ||
    ||| jbuch wrote:
    ||||| Bob Mauri wrote:
    |||||
    |||||| It took me about 30 minutes just to put on all of my layers! The
    |||||| good news is that I wasn't cold. The bad news is that I look
    |||||| like
    |||||| the Pillsbury Dough Boy and can barely move with all those
    |||||| clothes.
    |||||| It
    |||||| takes me an extra 20 minutes to ride the same distance using my
    |||||| mountain bike (and the 4 layers of clothes) as opposed to my
    |||||| racing bike!
    ||||||
    |||||| Bring on the snow!
    ||||||
    |||||
    |||||
    ||||| Why on earth do you need so many layers?
    |||||
    ||||| What are they?
    |||||
    ||||| Since subscribing to the "ICEBIKE" list server, where people who
    ||||| live in Canada and Alaske and the Northern US States who ride
    ||||| regularly in the winter.....
    |||||
    ||||| I have stopped putting on so darned many clothes because I am over
    ||||| dressed and if not careful will get cold from the excess sweat.
    |||||
    ||||| Yesterday, I rode in 17 F weather in Iowa. I had on just three
    ||||| layers
    ||||| on top.... a thin CoolMAX long sleeved underwear, a midweight
    ||||| polyester fleece shirt and a Columbia Titanium waterproof
    ||||| breathable shell (no lining zipped in) with the pit zips fully
    ||||| OPEN.
    |||||
    ||||| I used just one bottom layer, a windproof fleece pant that I got
    ||||| from Target last year on clearance for about $12 (list price about
    ||||| $35.00).
    ||||| The zips at the bottom of the legs were OPEN for ventilation. They
    ||||| were almost too warm.
    |||||
    ||||| I was quite warm and at times took off my fleece cap to avoid
    ||||| overheating.
    |||||
    ||||| After reading the ICEBIKE archives about what to wear for what
    ||||| temperatures, I realized that for the last few years, I have been
    ||||| overdressing for winter rides. And that has been the cause of much
    ||||| of my discomfort.
    |||||
    ||||| Rarely have I ever zipped up my windbreaker on the top, because I
    ||||| overheat.
    |||||
    ||||| I don't ride nuts at top speed like many proud posters here do. I
    ||||| go shopping for food and clothers and stuff and consider 15 miles
    ||||| in a
    ||||| day quite an accomplishment.
    |||||
    ||||| I would recommend that you try several places for more guidlines
    ||||| on dressing for winter bike riding.....
    |||||
    ||||| This is a nice graphic on what torwear for winter bike riding in
    ||||| Colorado, put out by the state of Colorado, Department of
    ||||| Transportation.
    |||||
    ||||| http://www.dot.state.co.us/BikePed/Maps/Weather Gear.pdf
    |||||
    ||||| There is an ICEBIKE web page. Go there too. Tons of information.
    ||||| And links to the archives of the ICEBIKE list server.
    |||||
    ||||| http://www.icebike.com/
    |||||
    ||||| Today it got up to almost 38F, and today I did NOT use the
    ||||| windproof fleece pants, as they would have been too warm. I used
    ||||| some very
    ||||| light tights (just athletic cheap ones, not bike tights) under
    ||||| windpants
    ||||| because the winds were up to 15 mph. I wore the same top
    ||||| components
    ||||| and mostly had to unbutton the fleece shirt and unzip the
    ||||| windproof shell. Instead of a warm fleece hat (which I had in a
    ||||| pocket) I used
    ||||| a cotton baseball cap and a fleece band over the ears when they
    ||||| got cold. Quite a bit of the time, I took off the gloves (I
    ||||| should have carried the summer gloves as spares, but forgot).
    |||||
    ||||| I was quite warm coming home.
    |||||
    ||||| Last year, I would have had more layers and may have sweated more.
    |||||
    ||||| So, for heaven's sake, don't get too bundled up.
    |||||
    ||||| I know, I used to make that mistake. But, of course, carry
    ||||| something
    ||||| to throw on to keep warm if you blow a tire and have to change it
    ||||| or repair it and aren't moving and pedaling to keep toasty warm.
    |||||
    ||||| If you are too hot, slow down ( and take off your hat, unzip,..
    ||||| and finally remove an extra layer).
    |||||
    ||||| If you are too cold, pedal faster to burn up more energy.
    |||||
    ||||| If the wind penetrates your clothes, you were dumb enogh not to
    ||||| have used windproof layers in the system.
    |||||
    ||||| But, get out there and keep on experimentsing and you will find
    ||||| that
    ||||| it
    ||||| is almost certain that you overdressed.
    |||||
    ||||| Keep notes for a while on what the temperature and wind conditions
    ||||| were, what you wore and how your felt.
    |||||
    ||||| That is such good and vital advice, I may actually do it myself.
    |||||
    ||||| I wish I had done it years ago..... I would have figured out how
    ||||| badly I was overdressed.
    |||||
    ||||| I wouldn't have believed the overdressing except for what the guys
    ||||| and gals in Alaska and Canada wear..... and enjoy riding on snow
    ||||| and ice.
    |||||
    ||||| Jim
    |||||
    |||
    ||| Dude -- everyone is not the same. What works for you won't
    ||| necessarily work for someone else. The info on the sites are just
    ||| guidelines...people have to tweak to find what works for them. I
    ||| know quickly if I'm over dressed on a ride and I peal layers as a
    ||| result. That is a good reason to do layers in teh first place, so
    ||| you can peal as needed (more important on a longer ride when
    ||| conditions and temps can change a good bit) Also, 15 miles doesn't
    ||| quite do it for me. I don't even want to ride if I can just get in
    ||| 15 miles. I need at least 30 miles to feel as if I've done
    ||| something.
    |||
    |||
    || Roger, when you replied to the original poster, you left little room
    || for
    || the opinion that what works for you may not work for anyone
    || else......
    ||
    || Now, you ARE of the opinion that what works for me (and all those
    || people
    || on the ICEBIKE list from Alaska, Canada and the Northern USA) may
    || not be
    || good advice.
    ||
    || Think about it.

    Jim....???? in my reply referred to me as in "I". That says *nothing*
    about anyone else. Obviously, there are other things that work for other
    people, like you and those in Alaska and Canada and Norhern USA who are (app
    arently) very used to cold. But the bottom line is that one has to learn
    what works for him/her when riding in the cold. People just have different
    sensibilities about it, so you can't assume that all those layers that Bob
    spoke of are too much....because it just depends. On a long ride with temps
    creeping up as the day progresses, I do think he might have been pealing due
    to overheating, depending on how high the temps got, but if the entire ride
    were at 17 degrees -- that's just cold (IMO and apparently for the OP),
    especially if you're moving at a good clip and there is some wind about.

    Certainly, I do agree with the general advice about not overdressing. In
    fact, I think any cyclist would. All you have to do is experience what it's
    like to start overheating out on a ride and you're there. If you can't peal
    you're going be really uncomfortable. The only real issue is what does
    overdressing mean. For someone not too used to cold weather, or for someone
    who doesn't like to feel cold (I know I don't like it), how to dress is
    something that has to be learned through trail and error, mostly. Sure, one
    can use guidelines, but that's all they are. Also, I do believe that Bob
    would know if he had overdressed on this ride. Don't you agree?
     
  13. Bob M

    Bob M Guest

    On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 20:12:58 -0500, Roger Zoul <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    > jbuch wrote:
    > || Roger Zoul wrote:
    > ||
    > ||| jbuch wrote:
    > ||||| Bob Mauri wrote:
    > |||||
    > |||||| It took me about 30 minutes just to put on all of my layers! The
    > |||||| good news is that I wasn't cold. The bad news is that I look
    > |||||| like
    > |||||| the Pillsbury Dough Boy and can barely move with all those
    > |||||| clothes.
    > |||||| It
    > |||||| takes me an extra 20 minutes to ride the same distance using my
    > |||||| mountain bike (and the 4 layers of clothes) as opposed to my
    > |||||| racing bike!
    > ||||||
    > |||||| Bring on the snow!
    > ||||||
    > |||||
    > |||||
    > ||||| Why on earth do you need so many layers?
    > |||||
    > ||||| What are they?
    > |||||
    > ||||| Since subscribing to the "ICEBIKE" list server, where people who
    > ||||| live in Canada and Alaske and the Northern US States who ride
    > ||||| regularly in the winter.....
    > |||||
    > ||||| I have stopped putting on so darned many clothes because I am over
    > ||||| dressed and if not careful will get cold from the excess sweat.
    > |||||
    > ||||| Yesterday, I rode in 17 F weather in Iowa. I had on just three
    > ||||| layers
    > ||||| on top.... a thin CoolMAX long sleeved underwear, a midweight
    > ||||| polyester fleece shirt and a Columbia Titanium waterproof
    > ||||| breathable shell (no lining zipped in) with the pit zips fully
    > ||||| OPEN.
    > |||||
    > ||||| I used just one bottom layer, a windproof fleece pant that I got
    > ||||| from Target last year on clearance for about $12 (list price about
    > ||||| $35.00).
    > ||||| The zips at the bottom of the legs were OPEN for ventilation. They
    > ||||| were almost too warm.
    > |||||
    > ||||| I was quite warm and at times took off my fleece cap to avoid
    > ||||| overheating.
    > |||||
    > ||||| After reading the ICEBIKE archives about what to wear for what
    > ||||| temperatures, I realized that for the last few years, I have been
    > ||||| overdressing for winter rides. And that has been the cause of much
    > ||||| of my discomfort.
    > |||||
    > ||||| Rarely have I ever zipped up my windbreaker on the top, because I
    > ||||| overheat.
    > |||||
    > ||||| I don't ride nuts at top speed like many proud posters here do. I
    > ||||| go shopping for food and clothers and stuff and consider 15 miles
    > ||||| in a
    > ||||| day quite an accomplishment.
    > |||||
    > ||||| I would recommend that you try several places for more guidlines
    > ||||| on dressing for winter bike riding.....
    > |||||
    > ||||| This is a nice graphic on what torwear for winter bike riding in
    > ||||| Colorado, put out by the state of Colorado, Department of
    > ||||| Transportation.
    > |||||
    > ||||| http://www.dot.state.co.us/BikePed/Maps/Weather Gear.pdf
    > |||||
    > ||||| There is an ICEBIKE web page. Go there too. Tons of information.
    > ||||| And links to the archives of the ICEBIKE list server.
    > |||||
    > ||||| http://www.icebike.com/
    > |||||
    > ||||| Today it got up to almost 38F, and today I did NOT use the
    > ||||| windproof fleece pants, as they would have been too warm. I used
    > ||||| some very
    > ||||| light tights (just athletic cheap ones, not bike tights) under
    > ||||| windpants
    > ||||| because the winds were up to 15 mph. I wore the same top
    > ||||| components
    > ||||| and mostly had to unbutton the fleece shirt and unzip the
    > ||||| windproof shell. Instead of a warm fleece hat (which I had in a
    > ||||| pocket) I used
    > ||||| a cotton baseball cap and a fleece band over the ears when they
    > ||||| got cold. Quite a bit of the time, I took off the gloves (I
    > ||||| should have carried the summer gloves as spares, but forgot).
    > |||||
    > ||||| I was quite warm coming home.
    > |||||
    > ||||| Last year, I would have had more layers and may have sweated more.
    > |||||
    > ||||| So, for heaven's sake, don't get too bundled up.
    > |||||
    > ||||| I know, I used to make that mistake. But, of course, carry
    > ||||| something
    > ||||| to throw on to keep warm if you blow a tire and have to change it
    > ||||| or repair it and aren't moving and pedaling to keep toasty warm.
    > |||||
    > ||||| If you are too hot, slow down ( and take off your hat, unzip,..
    > ||||| and finally remove an extra layer).
    > |||||
    > ||||| If you are too cold, pedal faster to burn up more energy.
    > |||||
    > ||||| If the wind penetrates your clothes, you were dumb enogh not to
    > ||||| have used windproof layers in the system.
    > |||||
    > ||||| But, get out there and keep on experimentsing and you will find
    > ||||| that
    > ||||| it
    > ||||| is almost certain that you overdressed.
    > |||||
    > ||||| Keep notes for a while on what the temperature and wind conditions
    > ||||| were, what you wore and how your felt.
    > |||||
    > ||||| That is such good and vital advice, I may actually do it myself.
    > |||||
    > ||||| I wish I had done it years ago..... I would have figured out how
    > ||||| badly I was overdressed.
    > |||||
    > ||||| I wouldn't have believed the overdressing except for what the guys
    > ||||| and gals in Alaska and Canada wear..... and enjoy riding on snow
    > ||||| and ice.
    > |||||
    > ||||| Jim
    > |||||
    > |||
    > ||| Dude -- everyone is not the same. What works for you won't
    > ||| necessarily work for someone else. The info on the sites are just
    > ||| guidelines...people have to tweak to find what works for them. I
    > ||| know quickly if I'm over dressed on a ride and I peal layers as a
    > ||| result. That is a good reason to do layers in teh first place, so
    > ||| you can peal as needed (more important on a longer ride when
    > ||| conditions and temps can change a good bit) Also, 15 miles doesn't
    > ||| quite do it for me. I don't even want to ride if I can just get in
    > ||| 15 miles. I need at least 30 miles to feel as if I've done
    > ||| something.
    > |||
    > |||
    > || Roger, when you replied to the original poster, you left little room
    > || for
    > || the opinion that what works for you may not work for anyone
    > || else......
    > ||
    > || Now, you ARE of the opinion that what works for me (and all those
    > || people
    > || on the ICEBIKE list from Alaska, Canada and the Northern USA) may
    > || not be
    > || good advice.
    > ||
    > || Think about it.
    >
    > Jim....???? in my reply referred to me as in "I". That says *nothing*
    > about anyone else. Obviously, there are other things that work for other
    > people, like you and those in Alaska and Canada and Norhern USA who are
    > (app
    > arently) very used to cold. But the bottom line is that one has to learn
    > what works for him/her when riding in the cold. People just have
    > different
    > sensibilities about it, so you can't assume that all those layers that
    > Bob
    > spoke of are too much....because it just depends. On a long ride with
    > temps
    > creeping up as the day progresses, I do think he might have been pealing
    > due
    > to overheating, depending on how high the temps got, but if the entire
    > ride
    > were at 17 degrees -- that's just cold (IMO and apparently for the OP),
    > especially if you're moving at a good clip and there is some wind about.
    >
    > Certainly, I do agree with the general advice about not overdressing. In
    > fact, I think any cyclist would. All you have to do is experience what
    > it's
    > like to start overheating out on a ride and you're there. If you can't
    > peal
    > you're going be really uncomfortable. The only real issue is what does
    > overdressing mean. For someone not too used to cold weather, or for
    > someone
    > who doesn't like to feel cold (I know I don't like it), how to dress is
    > something that has to be learned through trail and error, mostly. Sure,
    > one
    > can use guidelines, but that's all they are. Also, I do believe that Bob
    > would know if he had overdressed on this ride. Don't you agree?
    >
    >


    I personally think Jim is absolutely insane. There's no way I'm wearing
    three thin layers, with open arm pits, when it's below freezing (and I
    ride when it's below zero). I wasn't hot this morning when it was 17
    degrees out. I was comfortable. There's no way in hell I'm wearing fewer
    clothes than I'm currently wearing. And, I found the ice biking website
    years ago.

    --
    Bob M
    remove ".x" to reply
     
  14. Steve Knight

    Steve Knight Guest


    >Yesterday, I rode in 17 F weather in Iowa. I had on just three layers
    >on top.... a thin CoolMAX long sleeved underwear, a midweight polyester
    >fleece shirt and a Columbia Titanium waterproof breathable shell (no
    >lining zipped in) with the pit zips fully OPEN.


    that's the same with me the feet need the most work. I found a thick poly turtle
    neck shirt in the thrift store that with just my rain shell on and it is fine
    down to about 20 that thing is so warm it would kill me to wear it inside. for
    down to about 35 a think coolmax shirt and a cotton long sleeve shirt is usually
    fine.

    --
    Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
    Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
    See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.
     
  15. jbuch

    jbuch Guest

    Bob M wrote:
    > On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 20:12:58 -0500, Roger Zoul <[email protected]>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> jbuch wrote:
    >> || Roger Zoul wrote:
    >> ||
    >> ||| jbuch wrote:
    >> ||||| Bob Mauri wrote:
    >> |||||
    >> |||||| It took me about 30 minutes just to put on all of my layers! The
    >> |||||| good news is that I wasn't cold. The bad news is that I look
    >> |||||| like
    >> |||||| the Pillsbury Dough Boy and can barely move with all those
    >> |||||| clothes.
    >> |||||| It
    >> |||||| takes me an extra 20 minutes to ride the same distance using my
    >> |||||| mountain bike (and the 4 layers of clothes) as opposed to my
    >> |||||| racing bike!
    >> ||||||
    >> |||||| Bring on the snow!
    >> ||||||
    >> |||||
    >> |||||
    >> ||||| Why on earth do you need so many layers?
    >> |||||
    >> ||||| What are they?
    >> |||||
    >> ||||| Since subscribing to the "ICEBIKE" list server, where people who
    >> ||||| live in Canada and Alaske and the Northern US States who ride
    >> ||||| regularly in the winter.....
    >> |||||
    >> ||||| I have stopped putting on so darned many clothes because I am over
    >> ||||| dressed and if not careful will get cold from the excess sweat.
    >> |||||
    >> ||||| Yesterday, I rode in 17 F weather in Iowa. I had on just three
    >> ||||| layers
    >> ||||| on top.... a thin CoolMAX long sleeved underwear, a midweight
    >> ||||| polyester fleece shirt and a Columbia Titanium waterproof
    >> ||||| breathable shell (no lining zipped in) with the pit zips fully
    >> ||||| OPEN.
    >> |||||
    >> ||||| I used just one bottom layer, a windproof fleece pant that I got
    >> ||||| from Target last year on clearance for about $12 (list price about
    >> ||||| $35.00).
    >> ||||| The zips at the bottom of the legs were OPEN for ventilation. They
    >> ||||| were almost too warm.
    >> |||||
    >> ||||| I was quite warm and at times took off my fleece cap to avoid
    >> ||||| overheating.
    >> |||||
    >> ||||| After reading the ICEBIKE archives about what to wear for what
    >> ||||| temperatures, I realized that for the last few years, I have been
    >> ||||| overdressing for winter rides. And that has been the cause of much
    >> ||||| of my discomfort.
    >> |||||
    >> ||||| Rarely have I ever zipped up my windbreaker on the top, because I
    >> ||||| overheat.
    >> |||||
    >> ||||| I don't ride nuts at top speed like many proud posters here do. I
    >> ||||| go shopping for food and clothers and stuff and consider 15 miles
    >> ||||| in a
    >> ||||| day quite an accomplishment.
    >> |||||
    >> ||||| I would recommend that you try several places for more guidlines
    >> ||||| on dressing for winter bike riding.....
    >> |||||
    >> ||||| This is a nice graphic on what torwear for winter bike riding in
    >> ||||| Colorado, put out by the state of Colorado, Department of
    >> ||||| Transportation.
    >> |||||
    >> ||||| http://www.dot.state.co.us/BikePed/Maps/Weather Gear.pdf
    >> |||||
    >> ||||| There is an ICEBIKE web page. Go there too. Tons of information.
    >> ||||| And links to the archives of the ICEBIKE list server.
    >> |||||
    >> ||||| http://www.icebike.com/
    >> |||||
    >> ||||| Today it got up to almost 38F, and today I did NOT use the
    >> ||||| windproof fleece pants, as they would have been too warm. I used
    >> ||||| some very
    >> ||||| light tights (just athletic cheap ones, not bike tights) under
    >> ||||| windpants
    >> ||||| because the winds were up to 15 mph. I wore the same top
    >> ||||| components
    >> ||||| and mostly had to unbutton the fleece shirt and unzip the
    >> ||||| windproof shell. Instead of a warm fleece hat (which I had in a
    >> ||||| pocket) I used
    >> ||||| a cotton baseball cap and a fleece band over the ears when they
    >> ||||| got cold. Quite a bit of the time, I took off the gloves (I
    >> ||||| should have carried the summer gloves as spares, but forgot).
    >> |||||
    >> ||||| I was quite warm coming home.
    >> |||||
    >> ||||| Last year, I would have had more layers and may have sweated more.
    >> |||||
    >> ||||| So, for heaven's sake, don't get too bundled up.
    >> |||||
    >> ||||| I know, I used to make that mistake. But, of course, carry
    >> ||||| something
    >> ||||| to throw on to keep warm if you blow a tire and have to change it
    >> ||||| or repair it and aren't moving and pedaling to keep toasty warm.
    >> |||||
    >> ||||| If you are too hot, slow down ( and take off your hat, unzip,..
    >> ||||| and finally remove an extra layer).
    >> |||||
    >> ||||| If you are too cold, pedal faster to burn up more energy.
    >> |||||
    >> ||||| If the wind penetrates your clothes, you were dumb enogh not to
    >> ||||| have used windproof layers in the system.
    >> |||||
    >> ||||| But, get out there and keep on experimentsing and you will find
    >> ||||| that
    >> ||||| it
    >> ||||| is almost certain that you overdressed.
    >> |||||
    >> ||||| Keep notes for a while on what the temperature and wind conditions
    >> ||||| were, what you wore and how your felt.
    >> |||||
    >> ||||| That is such good and vital advice, I may actually do it myself.
    >> |||||
    >> ||||| I wish I had done it years ago..... I would have figured out how
    >> ||||| badly I was overdressed.
    >> |||||
    >> ||||| I wouldn't have believed the overdressing except for what the guys
    >> ||||| and gals in Alaska and Canada wear..... and enjoy riding on snow
    >> ||||| and ice.
    >> |||||
    >> ||||| Jim
    >> |||||
    >> |||
    >> ||| Dude -- everyone is not the same. What works for you won't
    >> ||| necessarily work for someone else. The info on the sites are just
    >> ||| guidelines...people have to tweak to find what works for them. I
    >> ||| know quickly if I'm over dressed on a ride and I peal layers as a
    >> ||| result. That is a good reason to do layers in teh first place, so
    >> ||| you can peal as needed (more important on a longer ride when
    >> ||| conditions and temps can change a good bit) Also, 15 miles doesn't
    >> ||| quite do it for me. I don't even want to ride if I can just get in
    >> ||| 15 miles. I need at least 30 miles to feel as if I've done
    >> ||| something.
    >> |||
    >> |||
    >> || Roger, when you replied to the original poster, you left little room
    >> || for
    >> || the opinion that what works for you may not work for anyone
    >> || else......
    >> ||
    >> || Now, you ARE of the opinion that what works for me (and all those
    >> || people
    >> || on the ICEBIKE list from Alaska, Canada and the Northern USA) may
    >> || not be
    >> || good advice.
    >> ||
    >> || Think about it.
    >>
    >> Jim....???? in my reply referred to me as in "I". That says *nothing*
    >> about anyone else. Obviously, there are other things that work for other
    >> people, like you and those in Alaska and Canada and Norhern USA who
    >> are (app
    >> arently) very used to cold. But the bottom line is that one has to learn
    >> what works for him/her when riding in the cold. People just have
    >> different
    >> sensibilities about it, so you can't assume that all those layers
    >> that Bob
    >> spoke of are too much....because it just depends. On a long ride
    >> with temps
    >> creeping up as the day progresses, I do think he might have been
    >> pealing due
    >> to overheating, depending on how high the temps got, but if the
    >> entire ride
    >> were at 17 degrees -- that's just cold (IMO and apparently for the OP),
    >> especially if you're moving at a good clip and there is some wind about.
    >>
    >> Certainly, I do agree with the general advice about not overdressing. In
    >> fact, I think any cyclist would. All you have to do is experience
    >> what it's
    >> like to start overheating out on a ride and you're there. If you
    >> can't peal
    >> you're going be really uncomfortable. The only real issue is what does
    >> overdressing mean. For someone not too used to cold weather, or for
    >> someone
    >> who doesn't like to feel cold (I know I don't like it), how to dress is
    >> something that has to be learned through trail and error, mostly.
    >> Sure, one
    >> can use guidelines, but that's all they are. Also, I do believe that Bob
    >> would know if he had overdressed on this ride. Don't you agree?
    >>
    >>

    >
    > I personally think Jim is absolutely insane. There's no way I'm
    > wearing three thin layers, with open arm pits, when it's below freezing
    > (and I ride when it's below zero). I wasn't hot this morning when it
    > was 17 degrees out. I was comfortable. There's no way in hell I'm
    > wearing fewer clothes than I'm currently wearing. And, I found the ice
    > biking website years ago.
    >


    Here is infor from the REI website on cold weather riding.

    Bob, you are repeating the same mistakes I made when I started riding
    through the winter.

    Too darned many layers of clothes.

    Over and over, the cold weather bikcyling sites cite the problem of
    overdressing.

    Except in subzero conditions, the major problem is getting rid of the
    moisture from perspiration. NOT insulation.

    I hope that you persist in excessive clothing, and feel the cold of
    excessive insultaion and perspiration.

    My mother taught me not to wear a heavy coat inside the house, because
    when you finally went outside, it would no longer be anywhere near as warm.

    > NOTE: Over-dressing can be as uncomfortable as under-dressing. Too many clothing layers will cause you to sweat (even in cold conditions), which will then expose you to chills when you stop riding and start to cool down.




    ------------ R E I ------------ cold weather bike clothing -----

    http://www.rei.com/online/store/Lea...oryId=Cycling&url=rei/learn/cycle/cyclthf.jsp

    Cold Weather Touring
    When winter hits and the snows start falling, most cyclists hang up
    their bikes and wait until spring. But the dead of winter is not the
    only time that cyclists can encounter cold weather! To protect yourself
    from long mountain descents, cold winds, early morning jaunts or
    surprise storms, you may need some or all of the following layers:

    NOTE: Over-dressing can be as uncomfortable as under-dressing. Too many
    clothing layers will cause you to sweat (even in cold conditions), which
    will then expose you to chills when you stop riding and start to cool down.

    * Inner layers
    The insulating, wicking underwear that cyclists often use in
    moderate conditions is also extremely popular in colder climates.

    * Middle layers
    When riding, you can't afford to get bogged down in lots of heavy
    clothing. So you'll have to find efficient insulation layers -- ones
    that provide lots of warmth without a lot of bulk or weight. Lightweight
    synthetic fleece layers tend to be very efficient, as do some wool
    layers, though wool tends to be somewhat heavier and less comfortable
    than fleece. To keep your legs warm, consider thicker, warmer cycling
    tights. Or you may wish combine lightweight tights with rain/wind pants
    to cut down on heat loss.

    Typically, the warmest insulation layers you carry will not be
    needed when you're riding hard, since pedaling generates so much body
    heat. But you should still keep them close at hand for rest stops, long
    downhills and other breaks when it's easy to get chilled.

    * Outer layers
    The same rain/wind shell layers you use in moderate conditions
    should be fine for biking in cold conditions. The key again is to find
    outer layers that stop the wind from stealing warmth, while still
    providing enough ventilation to keep from overheating while pedaling
    hard. Make sure the outer layers you use for cold weather riding are
    roomy enough to be comfortable with lots of other layers on.
     
  16. jbuch

    jbuch Guest

    Steve Knight wrote:

    >>Yesterday, I rode in 17 F weather in Iowa. I had on just three layers
    >>on top.... a thin CoolMAX long sleeved underwear, a midweight polyester
    >>fleece shirt and a Columbia Titanium waterproof breathable shell (no
    >>lining zipped in) with the pit zips fully OPEN.

    >
    >
    > that's the same with me the feet need the most work. I found a thick poly turtle
    > neck shirt in the thrift store that with just my rain shell on and it is fine
    > down to about 20 that thing is so warm it would kill me to wear it inside. for
    > down to about 35 a think coolmax shirt and a cotton long sleeve shirt is usually
    > fine.
    >



    Sounds like somebody who actually knows by doing.

    So pleasant to hear from somebody like that.

    I wish I had known people like you three years ago when I began
    "inventing" how to ride in the cold.

    I was foolishly overdressing for about three years. And I was still
    having some problems sometimes.

    I was always having to open all the zippers and unbutton layer after
    layer of clothing.

    I was so convinced that I needed all those layers, I couldn't bring
    myself to get rid of them.

    Until this year.... I read what the real experts say, at ICEBIKE.

    I experimented.... and found that those guys who do it actually know
    something.

    The local bike shop just recently told me that I was a habitual
    overdresser and no wonder I was sometimes uncomfortable.

    When it gets cold, get rid of those darned metal bike shoe clips. They
    literally suck the heat out of thje soles of your feet.

    Good to hear from somebody who actually does bike in the cold.

    Beats the advice of the guys who don't. No sweat.

    Jim
     
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