OT - Satellite navigation GPS tracking by stealth?

Discussion in 'Australia and New Zealand' started by Euan, Feb 13, 2006.

  1. Euan

    Euan Guest

    Was reading through some stuff about the UK approving a national ID card
    today and came across this:

    ========================================================================
    http://www.abd.org.uk/pr/477.htm

    Galileo Signals End of Liberty in Europe

    The first signals received from the oncoming swarm of Galileo satellites
    signal the end of liberty in Europe.

    Galileo offers consumers the promise of better and cheaper satellite
    navigation - this is how those behind the multi-billion (insert currency
    of choice) project sell it to the public.

    [...]

    What they don't shout so loudly about is that it also offers governments
    the promise of easier satellite tracking.

    [...]

    There will be no escape from state surveillance. Privacy will be
    consigned to history.

    [...]

    The principal concern of the Association of British Drivers is that
    Galileo will be used to extort yet more stealth tax from drivers.

    The EU is already planning to use Galileo to enforce continental-wide
    road tolling, and the car-hating British government wants to be
    first. You won't be able to drive anywhere without the EU knowing where
    you are going, who you are travelling with, and what speed you are
    travelling at. They will be able to charge whatever they want. One
    journey, four lapses of concentration that take you slightly over the
    speed limit, and you'll be banned from driving.
    [...]

    ========================================================================

    Frankly I find the whole concept somewhat Orwellian and disturbing.
    Yet another reason to make that final transition to car free eh?
    --
    Cheers | ~~ [email protected]
    Euan | ~~ _-\<,
    Melbourne, Australia | ~ (*)/ (*)
     
    Tags:


  2. cfsmtb

    cfsmtb New Member

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    You have a mobile? They *know* where you are already.
     
  3. flyingdutch

    flyingdutch New Member

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    only vaguely tho. The Galileo stuff is impressive and scary all at the same time. GPS system is 'old' and limited in accuracy due to system overlad and US forces restrictions on access

    What i want to know is, will galileo be able to track my friggin socks???
    Solving the unmatched pair conundrum would be worth any squirming over liberty :rolleyes:

    and think of the stats you could get for your rides :eek:
     
  4. Euan

    Euan Guest

    cfsmtb <[email protected]> writes:

    > Euan Wrote:
    >> Frankly I find the whole concept somewhat Orwellian and disturbing. Yet
    >> another reason to make that final transition to car free eh?

    >
    > You have a mobile? They *know* where you are already.


    Not when I'm driving 'cause I turn it off. One distraction I can do
    without ;-)
    --
    Cheers | ~~ [email protected]
    Euan | ~~ _-\<,
    Melbourne, Australia | ~ (*)/ (*)
     
  5. cfsmtb

    cfsmtb New Member

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    Going even more OT. Types bicycle in sentence to keep thread in context. On ABC AM this happy morn, a suspect involved with the London bombings was tracked through Europe via his mobile. Even when he repeatively changed SIM cards.
     
  6. a5hi5m

    a5hi5m New Member

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    IIRC phones can be traced via IEMI. The phone has to be connected to a network for this to work tho. This was introduced a few years ago in Australia, and can be also used to track stolen (and insurance abused?) phones that have different sim cards placed in them.


    Ash
     
  7. flyingdutch wrote:
    > cfsmtb Wrote:
    >
    >>You have a mobile? They *know* where you are already.

    >
    >
    > only vaguely tho. The Galileo stuff is impressive and scary all at the
    > same time.


    Ask yourself this question: Will europe decide it wants to extend their
    system to the rest of the world? If not, then no probs in Australia.

    > GPS system is 'old' and limited in accuracy due to system
    > overlad and US forces restrictions on access


    Not if you know what to do.
    >
    > What i want to know is, will galileo be able to track my friggin
    > socks???


    GPS can do that now. Hint you need a base station with known highly
    accurate (sub mm) co-ordinates, which gives you a differential that you
    apply to the readings of your common handheld GPS.

    You can pay for this service at varying levels of accuracy in all Oz
    capital cities.


    > Solving the unmatched pair conundrum would be worth any squirming over
    > liberty :rolleyes:


    1) I established a sock coral - deep dark draw where all single socks
    are locked away until their partner turns up to release them.
    2) I buy socks in lots of 5+,so I can loose/misplaced 9 socks before it
    is a problem.
    3) Always search the single socks with a pair of sissors. {:cool:. that
    seems to encourage a few mates to come out of hiding.
    4) Okay, I'm really a softy as I use single mates as water bottle
    wrappers on my bicycle.
    0
    >
    > and think of the stats you could get for your rides :eek:
    >
    >
     
  8. Theo Bekkers

    Theo Bekkers Guest

    Euan wrote:

    > Not when I'm driving 'cause I turn it off. One distraction I can do
    > without ;-)


    Didn't you just say yesterday
    "Yet another reason to make that final transition to car free eh?"

    No transition yet then?

    Theo
     
  9. Euan

    Euan Guest

    "Theo Bekkers" <[email protected]> writes:

    > Euan wrote:
    >
    >> Not when I'm driving 'cause I turn it off. One distraction I can do
    >> without ;-)

    >
    > Didn't you just say yesterday
    > "Yet another reason to make that final transition to car free eh?"
    >
    > No transition yet then?


    *whispering to avoid attention of Suzie*

    Working on it. I rarely use the shared car, Suzie's using it less and
    less. I don't think it'll be long before the case can be made that
    occasional taxi trips, car hire is more effective than owning and
    operating a car. Of course having better PT would certainly help as
    well.
    --
    Cheers | ~~ [email protected]
    Euan | ~~ _-\<,
    Melbourne, Australia | ~ (*)/ (*)
     
  10. Duncan

    Duncan Guest

    flyingdutch wrote:
    > cfsmtb Wrote:
    > > You have a mobile? They *know* where you are already.

    >
    > only vaguely tho. The Galileo stuff is impressive and scary all at the
    > same time. GPS system is 'old' and limited in accuracy due to system
    > overlad and US forces restrictions on access


    As I understand the system, GPS can't track you anyway. All your GPS
    receiver does is listen in to the time pings from as many satellites as
    it can to triangulate your position.

    There is no transmission back up.
     
  11. a5hi5m

    a5hi5m New Member

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    My thoughts also. However if there is a transmitter, it can then transmit GPS co-ordinates back to whoever is listening to whatever format its sent in.

    Ash
     
  12. Duncan

    Duncan Guest

    Well, yes.

    If you tell someone where you are... then they will probably find out.
     
  13. dtmeister

    dtmeister Guest

    flyingdutch <[email protected]s.com> wrote:
    >
    > cfsmtb Wrote:
    >> You have a mobile? They *know* where you are already.

    >
    > only vaguely tho. The Galileo stuff is impressive and scary all at the


    Actually, the 3G mobile networks now bring you location based services.
    I know Optus have a product that will show you your position on a map
    on your phone with a accuracy of about 50m. So they do *really* know
    where you are. :)


    --
    ..dt
     
  14. Duncan wrote:

    > As I understand the system, GPS can't track you anyway. All your GPS
    > receiver does is listen in to the time pings from as many satellites as
    > it can to triangulate your position.
    >
    > There is no transmission back up.


    However, mobile phones are continually "hand shaking" with all the
    towers they can reach and this allowed better triangulation that SA
    affected GPS.

    However, no that the US has turned off SA (Well Glosnast was better),
    t. "the government" is mandating that those towers can now ask the
    mobile phone to return the GPS location of the handset {:)

    This is being done for your assistance in an emergrncy {:-^) <tic>
     
  15. dtmeister wrote:

    > Actually, the 3G mobile networks now bring you location based services.


    Correct, the idea was that you would be pestered by telephone calls with
    current specials when you passed by a shop.

    Yep, we[1] were all so impressed too {:-*)

    [1] GIS professionals.
     
  16. Theo Bekkers

    Theo Bekkers Guest

    dtmeister wrote:

    > Actually, the 3G mobile networks now bring you location based
    > services. I know Optus have a product that will show you your
    > position on a map on your phone with a accuracy of about 50m. So they
    > do *really* know where you are. :)


    The only network that works at my place is CDMA. As the phone only works
    fairly well in the front yard but not worth a damn in the house, do they
    still know where I am?

    Theo
     
  17. dtmeister

    dtmeister Guest

    Theo Bekkers <[email protected]> wrote:
    > dtmeister wrote:
    >
    >> Actually, the 3G mobile networks now bring you location based
    >> services. I know Optus have a product that will show you your
    >> position on a map on your phone with a accuracy of about 50m. So they
    >> do *really* know where you are. :)

    >
    > The only network that works at my place is CDMA. As the phone only works
    > fairly well in the front yard but not worth a damn in the house, do they
    > still know where I am?


    Dunno. Certainly CDMA can support location based services. Here's a bit
    of blurb about how it works.

    http://www.3g.co.uk/PR/May2003/5332.htm

    Anyway, doesn't matter, CDMA is being turned off in 2008. :)
    3G doesn't have the distance limitation of 35km that the old GSM
    network, which is mainly why CDMA exists.


    --
    ..dt
     
  18. Theo Bekkers

    Theo Bekkers Guest

    "dtmeister" wrote
    > Anyway, doesn't matter, CDMA is being turned off in 2008. :)
    > 3G doesn't have the distance limitation of 35km that the old GSM
    > network, which is mainly why CDMA exists.


    I have a hill between me and my local CDMA tower. The tower is less
    than 2 kms away and, if I walk 200 metres up the road, I can see the
    Nav light on top of the tower. Phone barely works in the yard, not in
    the house. Telstra think it's my fault.

    Theo
     
  19. Graeme Dods

    Graeme Dods Guest

    On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 04:07:36 GMT, Theo Bekkers wrote:

    > Phone barely works in the yard, not in
    > the house. Telstra think it's my fault.


    Sounds like the standard telecom company excuse "it's your fault for not
    living near 98.5% of the population". Still, I'd happily be mobile
    phone-less when at home. I've got one of those fancy ones that actually
    plugs into my house! :)

    Graeme
     
  20. Theo Bekkers

    Theo Bekkers Guest

    "Graeme Dods" wrote

    > Still, I'd happily be mobile phone-less when at home.


    Notification of fires to the volunteer brigade is by txt message.
    Hopefully one day the Telstra man's house is going to catch fire and
    then he'll make my phone work. :-(

    > I've got one of those fancy ones that actually plugs into my house!

    :)

    Tell me more.

    Theo
     
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