OT Some ammo for those arguing against the use of 4 x 4 vehicles

[Peter B]

"W K" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Peter B" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "W K" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > > what about - road race bike owners who don't race or will never get
> > anywhere
> > > near winning a race.
> >
> > But a road race bike feels fast, lively and responsive and if you don't need to carry anything
> > but you're own body and a minimum of essentials what's wrong?
>
> The price tag.

A relatively expensive one costs, say, £1500. It will last at least 5 years (in reality far longer),
so 1500/5 = 300/52 = £5.77 per week or the same as one pack of cigs and a pint. Looks like a bargain
to me ;-) (And I forgot to deduct the price of a cheap bike from the £1500, assuming you want a
bike of some sort).

Pete

Pete

 

[W K]

"vernon.levy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

And I don't buy a submarine when I go paddling in the sea.

Any more surreal and pointless additions?

ME: I don't use HTML even though I'm on the internet?

 

[James Hodson]

On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 11:05:36 +0000 (UTC), "W K" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>what about - road race bike owners who don't race or will never get anywhere near winning a race.

Sounds like me, WK, with just one exception: I won't get close to even the start of a road race, or
any other kind of competition, for that matter.

However, I do like riding my road bike for fun; and that's what counts for me.

James

--
"Sorry mate, I didn't see you" is not a satisfactory excuse.

 

[Vernon.Levy]

>I loved my 2cv and still regard it as the world's most under-rated sports car - a total hoot
>to drive.
>
I will probably buy another 2CV having been forced by my wife to dispose of the one that we bought
brand new because she disliked its 'mannerisms and character'. I have many happy memories of mine. I
have transported all sorts of things inside it once I removed the passenger seats. It was possible
to go round bends at speeds that seemed suicidal. Yeah, sports car is a sort of loose description
that one could apply

By the way there was a 4WD version with two engines I believe. It was made for desert use if my
memory serves me right. I found that 2WD served me well in atrocious road and weather conditions
that saw Land Rovers falter up by the Tan Hill in the good old days when it used to snow in
winter

>.
>

 

[James Hodson]

On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 13:14:24 +0000 (UTC), "Peter B"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Riding an mtb on tarmac requires extra effort for the same speed and distance, riding a road bike
>in a proper mtb environment is a non-starter.

Hi Pete

I commented, in answer to WK's road bike owners etc statement that I ride mine simply because I
enjoy doing so.

The nearest thing I have to an MTB is my rigid Trek, shod with "slicks". I use this bike for general
trundling; it's quite effecient,
IMO. But I assume that when you mention MTBs, you are referring to bouncy bikes on the road.

James

--
"Sorry mate, I didn't see you" is not a satisfactory excuse.

 

[Tim Hall]

On 30 Dec 2003 03:26:51 -0800, [email protected] (Dave Kahn) wrote:

>As many people who recycle their bottles apparently make special trips to do so their contribution
>is effectively negative, and even positive contributions are trivial compared with the energy
>routinely squandered by the average person.

I make a special trip to recycle my bottles. Mind you, it's always on foot.

Tim

 

[Martinm]

"Peter B" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "Richard Bates" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 07:18:51 +0000, in <[email protected]>, "vernon.levy"
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > [stuff about 4x4 vehicles]
> >
> > I think theterm 4x4 is stupid - the vehicle is quite clearly 2x2 or occasionally 2x3.
> >
> > So if the number of wheel along any side of a vehicle is doubled to produce the term 4x4, then
> > is my bike a 2x4? Or maybe it is a 4x2?
>
> Your bike is a 2x1 (most likely), that is it has 2 wheels one of which is driven. A trike without
> a diff would be a 3x1.
>
> Pete

(gets out the big fishing reel) The OP was about a radio 4 article, I have to say the premise is
flawed. After all, if we don't take our bottles/newspapers to recycle they have to send a big energy
inefficient bin lorry round to get it and then a big JCB'ey crushy thing to bury it in the ground.
Are they saying we should just leave it lying in our back yard? Our council collects all our
recyclables from our house , in a big lorry with a 8x8 or whatever. How many hundred years does the
lorry have to keep going to make up its extra environmental impact?

 

[\ Dave]

"vernon.levy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> >Dave. ;-)
> >
> >(bored yet??)
> >
>
> Totally, I didn't realise how my mischievious posting would stir up so many strong emotions.
>
> Chaque a son goute.
>
> Vernon in Leeds
>
Absolutement ;-)

 

[Simon Brooke]

"vernon.levy" <[email protected]> writes:

> >I loved my 2cv and still regard it as the world's most under-rated sports car - a total hoot
> >to drive.
> >
> I will probably buy another 2CV having been forced by my wife to dispose of the one that we bought
> brand new because she disliked its 'mannerisms and character'. I have many happy memories of mine.
> I have transported all sorts of things inside it once I removed the passenger seats. It was
> possible to go round bends at speeds that seemed suicidal. Yeah, sports car is a sort of loose
> description that one could apply

Uh-huh. Once, on the little twisty roads around here, I was being held up by a Saab Turbo which was
going (in my opinion) unreasonably slowly, and some idiot was blazing his headlights in through my
back window, so I thought 'I'm bored of this', carved up the Saab, and disappeared. About ten mile
later I was stopped at a T junction waiting to turn right when the police pursuit car finally
caught up with me... The first thing they said to me is 'if you can drive like that you for surely
aren't drunk...'

Nothing - *nothing* - can out brake and out turn a 2CV. It may have bugger all power, but it doesn't
weigh very much and with those two massive inboard disk brakes you can leave your braking very deep
into corners. I've had much more expensive and much more powerful cars, but I've never had more fun.

> By the way there was a 4WD version with two engines I believe. It was made for desert use if my
> memory serves me right.

There was indeed. The gearboxes and throttles were coupled, but there was no acual
mechanical coupling.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Woz: 'All the best people in life seem to like LINUX.' ;;
<URL:http://www.woz.org/woz/cresponses/response03.html

 

[Peter Clinch]

Simon Brooke wrote:

> Nothing - *nothing* - can out brake and out turn a 2CV.

c.f. the 2CV chase in "For Your Eyes Only". It seems they're easy to roll back over if you do tip
them too far as well...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email protected]
http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Martinm]

"Dave Larrington" <[email protected]> wrote in message

> I note with interest that those ruthlessly pragmatic people, the French, do not have a Gallic
> equivalent of a Land-Rover, in spite of their large rural population, and instead put their trust
> in old vans and, in extremis, the four-wheel drive version of the Renault Kangoo...

Renault Scenic RX4 (ok total flop, point taken)

 

[Tim Woodall]

On 30 Dec 2003 14:43:46 -0800,
MartinM <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> (gets out the big fishing reel) The OP was about a radio 4 article, I have to say the premise
> is flawed. After all, if we don't take our bottles/newspapers to recycle they have to send a
> big energy
<snip>

Until this article on R4 I had no idea the reason for recycling was to save energy. We have been
getting stuff thought the letter box for the last 2 years telling us that all the landfill sites
will be full by 2007 (or something like that) and we NEED to start recycling as much as possible as
soon as possible.

Tim.

--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t," and there was light.

http://tjw.hn.org/ http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/

 

[alanbates]

Originally posted by Tony W
"vernon.levy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> a 4 x 4's owner would have to have a 400 year commitment to recycling to save the energy that the
> 4 x 4 uses over and above that of an ordinary car.

Is that a 4x4 owner's, a normal person's or an environmentalist's commitment?

Surely most 4x4 owners have no commitment.

T

Commitment or not, there are plenty of ways to save a planet. I personally routinely click on therainforestsite.com 's tree saving thingy and i use an email which saves 5ft of rainforest with every email i send and read. So I feel I'm doing my little part for the planet, and unless those who criticise the fact that I like 4X4's for no other reason but "just because" do at least taht much. I feel them hammering 4x4 owners is absurd.

We all can do our diff parts for the environment, i'll drive what i want to drive, and cycle a full sus MTB on the road if I want. whats the problem with that?

unless of course we all want to be amish, and this is not to offend those who are either. I respect the way u can live witout all the trappings.



anyway for those who want to use the said email. pls goto www.planet-save.com

thank you

 

[Graeme]

Tim Hall <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> I make a special trip to recycle my bottles. Mind you, it's always on foot.

And what about all that shoe rubber/leather you are wearing out on that special trip? How many cows
are running around with no hide and how many rubber trees are left feeling less bouncy for the sake
of a few bottles saved?

Have fun!

Graeme

 

[Graeme]

137265.news.uni-berlin.de:

> In fact I couldn't possibly list _all_ the activities we use our car for,
>

Why, because those of a sensitive disposition may be reading?

Cheers,

Graeme

 

[Martinm]

Tim Woodall <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> On 30 Dec 2003 14:43:46 -0800, MartinM <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > (gets out the big fishing reel) The OP was about a radio 4 article, I have to say the premise is
> > flawed. After all, if we don't take our bottles/newspapers to recycle they have to send a big
> > energy
> <snip>
>
> Until this article on R4 I had no idea the reason for recycling was to save energy. We have been
> getting stuff thought the letter box for the last 2 years telling us that all the landfill sites
> will be full by 2007 (or something like that) and we NEED to start recycling as much as possible
> as soon as possible.
>
> Tim.

Exactly. As I pointed out the most energy efficient thing would be to leave it in the back yard, or
even in Tesco's car park and save the energy used to transport it home (actually I have often
thought of doing just this with all the extraneous packaging they insist on putting round pizzas
etc, but it would just end up as landfill). The

incinerate their rubbish because their landfill sites are saturated (well recycle more, simple!) In
terms of energy I beleive aluiminium cans are the most energy inefficient domestic waste to have to
re-manufacture rather than recycle. Also we are net exporters of broken glass back to France because
that is where most of our beer/wine bottles come from. That can't be too energy efficient.

MM ;-)

 

[Simon Brooke]

Graeme <[email protected]> writes:

> 137265.news.uni-berlin.de:
>
> > In fact I couldn't possibly list _all_ the activities we use our car for,
>
> Why, because those of a sensitive disposition may be reading?

Why did you /think/ he needed so much room in the back?

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Woz: 'All the best people in life seem to like LINUX.' ;;
<URL:http://www.woz.org/woz/cresponses/response03.html

 

[Just Zis Guy]

On 1 Jan 2004 01:53:46 -0800, [email protected] (MartinM) wrote:

>As I pointed out the most energy efficient thing would be to leave it in the back yard, or even in
>Tesco's car park and save the energy used to transport it home (actually I have often thought of
>doing just this with all the extraneous packaging they insist on putting round pizzas etc, but it
>would just end up as landfill)

I've been known to discard the packaging before taking stuff home when space is tight in the
panniers, and I almost always refuse a poly bag these days.

Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://chapmancentral.demon.co.uk

 

[Simon Brooke]

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> writes:

> On 1 Jan 2004 01:53:46 -0800, [email protected] (MartinM) wrote:
>
> >As I pointed out the most energy efficient thing would be to leave it in the back yard, or even
> >in Tesco's car park and save the energy used to transport it home (actually I have often thought
> >of doing just this with all the extraneous packaging they insist on putting round pizzas etc, but
> >it would just end up as landfill)
>
> I've been known to discard the packaging before taking stuff home when space is tight in the
> panniers, and I almost always refuse a poly bag these days.

Interesting point. These days we get our weekly grocery shop from Tesco's internet system; it gets
delivered out in a van, for which we pay the grand fee of, I think, sick squid. The van does several
drops in the village and, in all, about twenty or thirty drops on its run. Given that it's twenty
two miles into Tesco's we'd use about a gallon and a half of petrol if we went in by car, not to
mention wasting a lot of time.

However, if we didn't shop on line in Tesco's we'd probably shop mostly at the Co-op, which is only
eight miles away so we'd use about a gallon of petrol...

The thing is when the Tesco man arrives he brings in our groceries in an extraordinary number of
plastic bags. I can't imagine why they need to use so many. So the question is, how many carrier
bags are 'worth' a gallon of petrol? I mean, he also collects used bags but the bags don't get
reused *as* bags - they go for recycling which I believe means pop bottles which is another energy
intensive transformation.

The idiotic thing is it's all so unnecessary - they could easily deliver our groceries in a solid
reuable plastic crate which we'd be happy to pay a deposit on for use again next time...

Bring on the Irish bag tax, I say.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Woz: 'All the best people in life seem to like LINUX.' ;;
<URL:http://www.woz.org/woz/cresponses/response03.html

 

[W K]

"Tim Woodall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 30 Dec 2003 14:43:46 -0800, MartinM <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > (gets out the big fishing reel) The OP was about a radio 4 article, I have to say the premise is
> > flawed. After all, if we don't take our bottles/newspapers to recycle they have to send a big
> > energy
> <snip>
>
> Until this article on R4 I had no idea the reason for recycling was to save energy.

Its one reason. It applies to a small extent to many things, but especially to metals, most of all
to aluminium. But get yourself a decent amount of waste Al and you'll be able to sell it anyway.