OT..Stroke Identification..Important Info..

"Stan Horwitz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

MG said:

true Ophelia...and yes, other things may cause alarm, but sometimes
the
onset of a stroke can be a simple as having a sudden onset headache
(how
many of THOSE do we all have? lol), an episode of dizziness (ditto)
or some
other fairly innocuous symptom, to more obvious ones such as
seizures,
sudden paralysis, collapse, or other.

I guess the moral of the story is...if it's abnormal for the person,
get it
investigated! and soon, especially if the person has other risk
factors such
as older aged, high blood pressure, cardiac conditions, high
cholesterol,
smoking, drinking excessively, clotting disorders, etc, or previous
'odd or
weird' short lived symptoms such as the innocuous ones above, or
other more
obvious ones

This is a subject that's very close to me. My mom had a mild stroke
several years ago and I had a stroke about 13 months ago. I can tell
you
my experience from a year ago when I mad a very minor stroke. I began
to
display stroke symptoms after one Monday morning shortly before a
scheduled doctor's appointment. I noticed that I had trouble typing
and
walking. I felt drunk even though I was not drinking. Taking a shower
was a major challenge, but I did it. I was awake the past few nights
with the worse cold I had in years so I just assumed I was very
fatigued. The fact that I had a lot of pressure at work didn't help
either.

I was able to drive the quarter mile or so to my doctor's office, no
problem, although I usually walk. I figured I would ask my doctor
about
what was happening to me since I already had an appointment to treat
me
for my cold. Being as though I live alone, I did not realize my speech
was impaired until I got to my doctor's office and signed in. This is
when I found out that the right side of my face was droopy. I also
discovered that I could barely write my own name! This is when I got
very nervous!

My doctor was away at a convention, but his assistant saw me. The
nurse
at the front desk could see something was wrong, so the usual 15
minute
wait in the waiting room was reduced to a minute or two. The
physician's
assistant conducted all the tests that were listed in the OP's
article.
She also asked me if I had any trouble seeing (double vision) or head
aches. I had none of those other symptoms. My BP was quickly taken and
the systolic it was very high even though I had taken a blood pressure
pill an hour or two earlier. While this was going on, an ambulance was
called and my parents were notified.

I was given a choice of hospitals, so I picked Kennedy Hospital near
my
home in New Jersey where I knew the parking would be easy because I
figured I would have a lot of visitors. I received a CAT scan right
away, but it didn't show any abnormalities, so I received an MRI. I
was
okay enough and inquisitive enough to ask the MRI person to
demonstrate
the technology to me, which she willingly did. The neurologist who
happened to be the ER doctor at the time didn't see anything wrong
with
the MRI.

Other than my slurred speech, trouble walking and writing, and that
damned cold, I felt fine. The ER staff allowed me to use my cell phone
so I called my folks and I told them i was okay. They live nearby, but
their only car was in the shop so I told them they might was well sit
tight at home. I called a couple of friends too and I played a game on
my Palm Pilot while I waited and waited and waited.

At around 4:00pm, I was transferred by ambulance to Jefferson Hospital
in Philly where they have an acute stroke center. The care I received
at
both hospitals was impressive. At least two neurologists at Jefferson
studied my MRI and CAT scan. After a couple of days, they figured out
what was wrong and I was released to my parents' care. I spent the
better part of three weeks doing nothing but sleeping. And the rest is
history.

Thank you for sharing that Stan. It was very useful

"Ophelia" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"MG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

true Ophelia...and yes, other things may cause alarm, but sometimes the

onset of a stroke can be a simple as having a sudden onset headache (how
many of THOSE do we all have? lol), an episode of dizziness (ditto) or
some other fairly innocuous symptom, to more obvious ones such as
seizures, sudden paralysis, collapse, or other.

I guess the moral of the story is...if it's abnormal for the person, get
it investigated! and soon, especially if the person has other risk
factors such as older aged, high blood pressure, cardiac conditions, high
cholesterol, smoking, drinking excessively, clotting disorders, etc, or
previous 'odd or weird' short lived symptoms such as the innocuous ones
above, or other more obvious ones

If we take the factors you list into account, and given one can't call in
medical help for such things as sudden onset headache, (I don't know about
USA but certainly no Doctor here in UK would visit for a headache) what
checks should a non medical person do in such an event?

Occasionally you'll find a doctor who will come out for a home visit here in
Oz (or at least, here in Adelaide, don't know about the other states)

I DO know however that people here will call an emergency ambulance for much
LESS than a headache, and they'll get sent one (people call for lost contact
lens; a restless baby who won't go to sleep at 3am; an abrasion on their
hand; to let their cat out (found that one out once we got there); to help
them get into/out of bed/chair; etc etc. The paramedics will assess, and if
they find anything suspicious, should transport the person to hospital. I
assume the same would happen in the UK or USA?

Often, people who are being treated for high blood pressure have their own
home BP machine (or sphygmomanometer)...a common symptom during a stroke is
finding a person's BP goes quite higher than normal.

The affected person may not notice, but other people would notice things
like slurred speech, or a facial droop on one side of their face (sometimes
one side of the mouth droops or the eyelid), or they start dribbling from
one side of their mouth, or they can't chew or swallow properly

Just a few more things off the top of my head, that could be used in
addition to the three outlines in the OP, and my previous answer.

MG

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

MG...who is also in Oz :-)

I had noticed from your IP No that you were with Telstra (Bigpond) in
Australia !...From what part do you come from ??..I am from The Upper
North Shore in Sydney !!
--
Bigbazza (Barry)..Oz

am in lil ol' Adelaide...where, on the first day of summer, it is pouring
with rain and damn cold! lol

"MG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Ophelia" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"MG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

> true Ophelia...and yes, other things may cause alarm, but sometimes
> the
onset of a stroke can be a simple as having a sudden onset headache
(how many of THOSE do we all have? lol), an episode of dizziness
(ditto) or some other fairly innocuous symptom, to more obvious ones
such as seizures, sudden paralysis, collapse, or other.

I guess the moral of the story is...if it's abnormal for the person,
get it investigated! and soon, especially if the person has other
risk factors such as older aged, high blood pressure, cardiac
conditions, high cholesterol, smoking, drinking excessively,
clotting disorders, etc, or previous 'odd or weird' short lived
symptoms such as the innocuous ones above, or other more obvious
ones

If we take the factors you list into account, and given one can't
call in medical help for such things as sudden onset headache, (I
don't know about USA but certainly no Doctor here in UK would visit
for a headache) what checks should a non medical person do in such an
event?

Occasionally you'll find a doctor who will come out for a home visit
here in Oz (or at least, here in Adelaide, don't know about the other
states)

I DO know however that people here will call an emergency ambulance
for much LESS than a headache, and they'll get sent one (people call
for lost contact lens; a restless baby who won't go to sleep at 3am;
an abrasion on their hand; to let their cat out (found that one out
once we got there); to help them get into/out of bed/chair; etc etc.
The paramedics will assess, and if they find anything suspicious,
should transport the person to hospital. I assume the same would
happen in the UK or USA?

I had a call from my friend T last week who told me this. Her mother
(88 and frail) had fallen outside her house. T couldn't lift her and
two men nearby were afraid to carry her up in case they hurt her. They
brought out a chair and she was liften on to it. T went into the house
and called the warden to come and help. She was off that day and the
person on the line said they were calling an ambulance since that was
policy. When the ambulance came they gave her a good telling off
saying it had not been necessary. T ask if they could take mother to
T's house and was told they were not a taxi service. They also said
they were reporting her. T's husband R, when he got home from work was
livid and called the ambulance service to complain. The complaint had
been put in against T that *she* had called out the ambulance to take
her mother to her home!!! So I leave you to guess what would happen if
you tried to call out medical staff for a headache!

Quoted message said:

Often, people who are being treated for high blood pressure have their
own home BP machine (or sphygmomanometer)...a common symptom during a
stroke is finding a person's BP goes quite higher than normal.

The affected person may not notice, but other people would notice
things like slurred speech, or a facial droop on one side of their
face (sometimes one side of the mouth droops or the eyelid), or they
start dribbling from one side of their mouth, or they can't chew or
swallow properly

Just a few more things off the top of my head, that could be used in
addition to the three outlines in the OP, and my previous answer.

Thank you

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Occasionally you'll find a doctor who will come out for a home visit
here in Oz (or at least, here in Adelaide, don't know about the other
states)

I DO know however that people here will call an emergency ambulance
for much LESS than a headache, and they'll get sent one (people call
for lost contact lens; a restless baby who won't go to sleep at 3am;
an abrasion on their hand; to let their cat out (found that one out
once we got there); to help them get into/out of bed/chair; etc etc.
The paramedics will assess, and if they find anything suspicious,
should transport the person to hospital. I assume the same would
happen in the UK or USA?

I had a call from my friend T last week who told me this. Her mother
(88 and frail) had fallen outside her house. T couldn't lift her and
two men nearby were afraid to carry her up in case they hurt her. They
brought out a chair and she was liften on to it. T went into the house
and called the warden to come and help. She was off that day and the
person on the line said they were calling an ambulance since that was
policy. When the ambulance came they gave her a good telling off
saying it had not been necessary. T ask if they could take mother to
T's house and was told they were not a taxi service. They also said
they were reporting her. T's husband R, when he got home from work was
livid and called the ambulance service to complain. The complaint had
been put in against T that *she* had called out the ambulance to take
her mother to her home!!! So I leave you to guess what would happen if
you tried to call out medical staff for a headache!

Quoted message said:

OMG that's disgusting "service"!!

we do call outs for what is termed "lift only" cases, where a usually frail
or elderly person has lost their balance, tripped, fallen out of bed,
whatever, and can't get themselves up again...we get there, assess, and if
nothing's wrong, lift them back up to chair, bed whatever...it's part of the
service that's provided, and is given it's own code on the patient report
form

sometimes, if they're out and about, there's no-one to take them home and if
it's nearby, we'll do a "quickie" and take them home. We've even driven them
home in their own car when they've been a bit shook up but still OK and
insist on going home; the other paramedic follows behind them in the truck.
Otherwise we'll try to contact family or friends to pick them up, if the
trip would take us too far out of our area...not supposed to leave the area
uncovered

If I worked with someone like the above crew, I would be the one to report
them!

and yes, some doctors do come out for headaches...migraines...etc

hope your friend's mother is getting on better...

MG

Ophelia said:

Thank you for sharing that Stan. It was very useful

Again I ask.. please trim up the extraneous extra stuff before your
replies.

"MG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

MG...who is also in Oz :-)

I had noticed from your IP No that you were with Telstra (Bigpond) in
Australia !...From what part do you come from ??..I am from The Upper
North Shore in Sydney !!
--
Bigbazza (Barry)..Oz

am in lil ol' Adelaide...where, on the first day of summer, it is pouring
with rain and damn cold! lol

Well...For the first day of summer here in lil' ol' Sydney Town...It has
been a day of mixed 'offerings'...It has been both 'cool' and Raining..and
has also been 'Hot' and 'Muggy' ... I have had the fan on for most of the
evening !...But yesterday..It rained and I had the gas heating on !...Most
unusual weather !... As a rule...I am a lover of cold weather and utterly
'detest' the extreme hot summers that we have !....My ancestors came out
from England (and 25% from Ireland) back in around 1809...I am sorry to say
that this individual has not changed his genetics in all that time !...I
never liked the hot ..humid weather that we have...GOD intended that this
bloke should still inhabit those small islands up north !!...If I had been
meant for these parts...He would have given me a much darker 'skin'...<g>
--
Bigbazza (Barry)..Oz

"MG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

we do call outs for what is termed "lift only" cases, where a usually
frail or elderly person has lost their balance, tripped, fallen out of
bed, whatever, and can't get themselves up again...we get there,
assess, and if nothing's wrong, lift them back up to chair, bed
whatever...it's part of the service that's provided, and is given it's
own code on the patient report form

sometimes, if they're out and about, there's no-one to take them home
and if it's nearby, we'll do a "quickie" and take them home. We've
even driven them home in their own car when they've been a bit shook
up but still OK and insist on going home; the other paramedic follows
behind them in the truck. Otherwise we'll try to contact family or
friends to pick them up, if the trip would take us too far out of our
area...not supposed to leave the area uncovered

If I worked with someone like the above crew, I would be the one to
report them!

and yes, some doctors do come out for headaches...migraines...etc

hope your friend's mother is getting on better...

Thank you. T has her mother at T's own house and is taking care of her
there. Incidentally, it is very difficult to get a doctor out for a home
visit for any reason. We have to prove we can't move or get ourselves
to the doctor's surgery. UK is not a good place to be for the National
Health Service. I could go on at length but this is not the place.

Ophelia

"Bigbazza" <bigbazza@INVALID_ADDY.net> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"MG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> MG...who is also in Oz :-)
>

I had noticed from your IP No that you were with Telstra (Bigpond) in
Australia !...From what part do you come from ??..I am from The Upper
North Shore in Sydney !!
--
Bigbazza (Barry)..Oz

am in lil ol' Adelaide...where, on the first day of summer, it is pouring
with rain and damn cold! lol

Well...For the first day of summer here in lil' ol' Sydney Town...It has
been a day of mixed 'offerings'...It has been both 'cool' and Raining..and
has also been 'Hot' and 'Muggy' ... I have had the fan on for most of the
evening !...But yesterday..It rained and I had the gas heating on !...Most
unusual weather !... As a rule...I am a lover of cold weather and utterly
'detest' the extreme hot summers that we have !....My ancestors came out
from England (and 25% from Ireland) back in around 1809...I am sorry to
say that this individual has not changed his genetics in all that time
!...I never liked the hot ..humid weather that we have...GOD intended that
this bloke should still inhabit those small islands up north !!...If I had
been meant for these parts...He would have given me a much darker
'skin'...<g>
--
Bigbazza (Barry)..Oz

lol Bazz I know what you mean...my rels all come from Europe as well,
though I must admit I really hate cold, wet, windy weather, probably cos
often I have to work in the damn stuff!

I also don't like humid weather...can cope reasonably with dry heat, but
humidity? forget it!

oh for lovely clear, warm days of 25 C (ie autumn in Adelaide <g>😉

MG

"Ophelia" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"MG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

we do call outs for what is termed "lift only" cases, where a usually
frail or elderly person has lost their balance, tripped, fallen out of
bed, whatever, and can't get themselves up again...we get there,
assess, and if nothing's wrong, lift them back up to chair, bed
whatever...it's part of the service that's provided, and is given it's
own code on the patient report form

sometimes, if they're out and about, there's no-one to take them home
and if it's nearby, we'll do a "quickie" and take them home. We've
even driven them home in their own car when they've been a bit shook
up but still OK and insist on going home; the other paramedic follows
behind them in the truck. Otherwise we'll try to contact family or
friends to pick them up, if the trip would take us too far out of our
area...not supposed to leave the area uncovered

If I worked with someone like the above crew, I would be the one to
report them!

and yes, some doctors do come out for headaches...migraines...etc

hope your friend's mother is getting on better...

Thank you. T has her mother at T's own house and is taking care of her
there. Incidentally, it is very difficult to get a doctor out for a home
visit for any reason. We have to prove we can't move or get ourselves
to the doctor's surgery. UK is not a good place to be for the National
Health Service. I could go on at length but this is not the place.

Ophelia

My sister has just moved back here with her family, after living in the UK
for 8 years...and worked in the hospital system for the last few
years...she's told me a lot about the NHS <s>.

MG

Long story, but please bare with me....

Ophelia said:

"MG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Ophelia" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"MG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
>> true Ophelia...and yes, other things may cause alarm, but sometimes
>> the
> onset of a stroke can be a simple as having a sudden onset headache
> (how many of THOSE do we all have? lol), an episode of dizziness
> (ditto) or some other fairly innocuous symptom, to more obvious ones
> such as seizures, sudden paralysis, collapse, or other.
>
> I guess the moral of the story is...if it's abnormal for the person,
> get it investigated!

YES!!!!!!!!
<snip>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> clotting disorders, etc, or previous 'odd or weird' short lived
> symptoms such as the innocuous ones above, or other more obvious
> ones

I had a call from my friend T last week who told me this. Her mother
(88 and frail) had fallen outside her house. T couldn't lift her and
two men nearby were afraid to carry her up in case they hurt her. They
brought out a chair and she was liften on to it. T went into the house
and called the warden to come and help. She was off that day and the
person on the line said they were calling an ambulance since that was
policy. When the ambulance came they gave her a good telling off
saying it had not been necessary. T ask if they could take mother to
T's house and was told they were not a taxi service. They also said
they were reporting her. T's husband R, when he got home from work was
livid and called the ambulance service to complain. The complaint had
been put in against T that *she* had called out the ambulance to take
her mother to her home!!! So I leave you to guess what would happen if
you tried to call out medical staff for a headache!

Comment:
The moral of that story is absolutely NOT the norm in my part of the
world.

In my city, the fire department paramedics pick up people who have
fallen when others can't physically pick them up. You may not know
exactly why they fell, so calling the paramedics is considered doing
the right thing here.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Here's what's happening in my life right now:

My mother was admitted to the hospital Wednesday in the early AM. My
brother had checked on her a couple of times during the night and both
times found her in the bathroom, on the floor "flopping around"
(according to him). He asked her each time if she was ok and she said
"yes", so he put her to bed and she went back to sleep. I guess it
happened a third time, so he finally became concerned enough to take
her to the hospital (this isn't unusual.... people WANT to believe
everything is OK). They are out in the country, so IT is a long
distance and a big deal to get there.

She was given an MRI and EKG a couple of hours after being admitted.
Also, something was inserted that required 4 hours of lying flat after
it was taken out. She rested peacefully all night. The problem was
that she didn't wake up this morning as wasn't responding to pain. I
stayed at work thinking she was a goner and I would be going there on
Friday to deal with death.

The neurologist called me this evening to say that she was awake, but
had suffered a series of small strokes in several parts of her brain
(global: front, middle, back, left, right). It's called an anoxic
injury, which means it's caused by a lack of oxygen to the brain. The
reason it occurred is unknown at this time, but it could be as simple
as a couple of skipped heartbeats.

Mom is a cancer patient, but she also is at risk for blood clots. She
was taking Lovenox (which is injectable Cumadin), a state of the art
drug - so she was doing everything right. I needed to ask the doctor
if my brother had gotten her to the hospital the first time she fell
if the outcome would have been different. The doctor replied with an
unqualified NO. She said that sort of stroke could have happened in
the hospital and the results would have been the same.

OK... here is the information I hope you remember: I asked the doctor
why she would go to the bathroom so many times when she only goes on
an average of once a night (to my knowledge). The doctor told me that
strokes commonly cause *an urge to urinate*, which explains why she
was found in the bathroom every time.

So, if you have a loved one who is exhibiting signs of confusion etc.
AND has more frequent than normal urges to urinate, please take that
person to the hospital as soon as possible. Above all, DON'T ask them
multiple times if they are OK and accept it. Use your own judgment:
If it doesn't seem normal, it probably isn't - so let a doctor decide
if there is real a problem or not!
--

Practice safe eating. Always use condiments.

"sf" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

OK... here is the information I hope you remember: I asked the doctor
why she would go to the bathroom so many times when she only goes on
an average of once a night (to my knowledge). The doctor told me that
strokes commonly cause *an urge to urinate*, which explains why she
was found in the bathroom every time.

Thank you sf!

Quoted message said:

So, if you have a loved one who is exhibiting signs of confusion etc.
AND has more frequent than normal urges to urinate, please take that
person to the hospital as soon as possible. Above all, DON'T ask them
multiple times if they are OK and accept it. Use your own judgment:
If it doesn't seem normal, it probably isn't - so let a doctor decide
if there is real a problem or not!

I do hope your mum improves and can be comfortable

"sf" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Long story, but please bare with me....

Ophelia said:

"MG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Ophelia" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
>
> "MG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> news:[email hidden]...
>>> true Ophelia...and yes, other things may cause alarm, but sometimes
>>> the
>> onset of a stroke can be a simple as having a sudden onset headache
>> (how many of THOSE do we all have? lol), an episode of dizziness
>> (ditto) or some other fairly innocuous symptom, to more obvious ones
>> such as seizures, sudden paralysis, collapse, or other.
> >
>> I guess the moral of the story is...if it's abnormal for the person,
>> get it investigated!

YES!!!!!!!!
<snip>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> clotting disorders, etc, or previous 'odd or weird' short lived
>> symptoms such as the innocuous ones above, or other more obvious
>> ones
>

I had a call from my friend T last week who told me this. Her mother
(88 and frail) had fallen outside her house. T couldn't lift her and
two men nearby were afraid to carry her up in case they hurt her. They
brought out a chair and she was liften on to it. T went into the house
and called the warden to come and help. She was off that day and the
person on the line said they were calling an ambulance since that was
policy. When the ambulance came they gave her a good telling off
saying it had not been necessary. T ask if they could take mother to
T's house and was told they were not a taxi service. They also said
they were reporting her. T's husband R, when he got home from work was
livid and called the ambulance service to complain. The complaint had
been put in against T that *she* had called out the ambulance to take
her mother to her home!!! So I leave you to guess what would happen if
you tried to call out medical staff for a headache!

Comment:
The moral of that story is absolutely NOT the norm in my part of the
world.

In my city, the fire department paramedics pick up people who have
fallen when others can't physically pick them up. You may not know
exactly why they fell, so calling the paramedics is considered doing
the right thing here.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Here's what's happening in my life right now:

My mother was admitted to the hospital Wednesday in the early AM. My
brother had checked on her a couple of times during the night and both
times found her in the bathroom, on the floor "flopping around"
(according to him). He asked her each time if she was ok and she said
"yes", so he put her to bed and she went back to sleep. I guess it
happened a third time, so he finally became concerned enough to take
her to the hospital (this isn't unusual.... people WANT to believe
everything is OK). They are out in the country, so IT is a long
distance and a big deal to get there.

She was given an MRI and EKG a couple of hours after being admitted.
Also, something was inserted that required 4 hours of lying flat after
it was taken out. She rested peacefully all night. The problem was
that she didn't wake up this morning as wasn't responding to pain. I
stayed at work thinking she was a goner and I would be going there on
Friday to deal with death.

The neurologist called me this evening to say that she was awake, but
had suffered a series of small strokes in several parts of her brain
(global: front, middle, back, left, right). It's called an anoxic
injury, which means it's caused by a lack of oxygen to the brain. The
reason it occurred is unknown at this time, but it could be as simple
as a couple of skipped heartbeats.

Mom is a cancer patient, but she also is at risk for blood clots. She
was taking Lovenox (which is injectable Cumadin), a state of the art
drug - so she was doing everything right. I needed to ask the doctor
if my brother had gotten her to the hospital the first time she fell
if the outcome would have been different. The doctor replied with an
unqualified NO. She said that sort of stroke could have happened in
the hospital and the results would have been the same.

OK... here is the information I hope you remember: I asked the doctor
why she would go to the bathroom so many times when she only goes on
an average of once a night (to my knowledge). The doctor told me that
strokes commonly cause *an urge to urinate*, which explains why she
was found in the bathroom every time.

So, if you have a loved one who is exhibiting signs of confusion etc.
AND has more frequent than normal urges to urinate, please take that
person to the hospital as soon as possible. Above all, DON'T ask them
multiple times if they are OK and accept it. Use your own judgment:
If it doesn't seem normal, it probably isn't - so let a doctor decide
if there is real a problem or not!

You've explained my f-i-l exactly; however, he hasn't been on the floor in
the bathroom yet. He has the urge about every 15 minutes each night, takes
coumadin, has beat 2 kinds of cancer in less than 2 years, usually confused.
But so far he has had no strokes - that we know of. He subscribes to a
life-line sort of thing that he wears at all times. Hopefully he can push
it if he needs to. I mention this as a future solution, but I'm sure that
someone will tell you about it. It could be a life-saver for your mother
and relieve a lot of worry and responsibility on the part of the caregivers
who are not always present. (Even though we are 400 miles away, he usually
gives us a call anytime anything is up. The highways were hot from our tires
the last few years.)

I hope your mother will be able to function well without a lot of
rehabilitation. My thoughts are with you.
My best,
Dee Dee

sf said:

Here's what's happening in my life right now:

She was given an MRI and EKG a couple of hours after being admitted.
Also, something was inserted that required 4 hours of lying flat after
it was taken out.

Possibly an lumbar puncture to test her cerebral spinal fluid. That
could rule out meningitis and the like which could also explain her
change of status.

She rested peacefully all night. The problem was

Quoted message said:

that she didn't wake up this morning as wasn't responding to pain. I
stayed at work thinking she was a goner and I would be going there on
Friday to deal with death.

Not uncommon with strokes or brain damage

Quoted message said:

The neurologist called me this evening to say that she was awake, but
had suffered a series of small strokes in several parts of her brain
(global: front, middle, back, left, right). It's called an anoxic
injury, which means it's caused by a lack of oxygen to the brain. The
reason it occurred is unknown at this time, but it could be as simple
as a couple of skipped heartbeats.

anoxic brain injuries can happen during seizures or cardiopulmonary
arrest, obstruction... anything that interferes with blood carrying
oxygen getting to the brain. It does not take long, minutes, for the
damage to occur.

Quoted message said:

Mom is a cancer patient, but she also is at risk for blood clots. She
was taking Lovenox (which is injectable Cumadin),

Lovenox isn't Coumadin at all. It is a low molecular weigh heparin. And
it is quite a little miracle for people like your mom as they don't have
to have as frequent blood tests to monitor the effectiveness of therapy,
unlike the more commonly used type of Heparin. Lovenox can be given
easily at home, whereas Heprain isn't. Coumadin is an orally
administered blood thinner also, but it works on an entirely different
part of the clotting cascade, and it also requires lab tests also to
monitor for effectiveness.

a state of the art

Quoted message said:

drug - so she was doing everything right. I needed to ask the doctor
if my brother had gotten her to the hospital the first time she fell
if the outcome would have been different. The doctor replied with an
unqualified NO. She said that sort of stroke could have happened in
the hospital and the results would have been the same.

It certainly does sound like she has been a risk for a while. 🙁

Quoted message said:

OK... here is the information I hope you remember: I asked the doctor
why she would go to the bathroom so many times when she only goes on
an average of once a night (to my knowledge). The doctor told me that
strokes commonly cause *an urge to urinate*, which explains why she
was found in the bathroom every time.

I've never heard of this before and I deal with fresh stroke patients
all the time? They certainly can be "confused" and that confusion might
present as confusion about the feeling like one needs to piddle.

Quoted message said:

So, if you have a loved one who is exhibiting signs of confusion etc.
AND has more frequent than normal urges to urinate, please take that
person to the hospital as soon as possible. Above all, DON'T ask them
multiple times if they are OK and accept it. Use your own judgment:
If it doesn't seem normal, it probably isn't - so let a doctor decide
if there is real a problem or not!

Elderly, women in particular, often experience urinary tract infections.
They can in fact be quite subtle, and found by accident when looking at
other problems. Confusion would get a work up for a UTI right off too.

I'm sorry about your mother and hope she is as comfortable as can be.
Take care of yourself also during these stressful times. Keep me posted
about her condition.

Dee Randall said:

You've explained my f-i-l exactly; however, he hasn't been on the floor in
the bathroom yet. He has the urge about every 15 minutes each night, takes
coumadin, has beat 2 kinds of cancer in less than 2 years, usually confused.
But so far he has had no strokes - that we know of.

Elderly men also have prostate issues that complicate life and can cause
difficulty voiding, as well as renal and cardiac issues. Some people
have better renal perfusion (blood flow to the kidney) during the night
while laying down and resting, which in turn can cause better unine
production. It might be nothing more than that, y'know? Or it could be
a urinary tract infection?
I don't want to think anyone will over react and assume any frequent
urination means someone is working on a stoke.

On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 10:06:00 -0500, Goomba38 <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I don't want to think anyone will over react and assume any frequent
urination means someone is working on a stoke.

Using my family as the bellweather, because they don't resort to
emergency measures - even when it's obvious: I want people to
recognize and heed the warning signs.

On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 09:54:31 -0500, Goomba38 <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

sf said:

Mom is a cancer patient, but she also is at risk for blood clots. She
was taking Lovenox (which is injectable Cumadin),

Lovenox isn't Coumadin at all. It is a low molecular weigh heparin.

She is on a Heparin on a drip at the moment.

I'd never heard of Lovenox until last night and the neurologist was
the one who gave me the relationship, so don't shoot the messenger.
🙂

Quoted message said:

And
it is quite a little miracle for people like your mom as they don't have
to have as frequent blood tests to monitor the effectiveness of therapy,
unlike the more commonly used type of Heparin. Lovenox can be given
easily at home,

I didn't know she injected any drug until I got here (Oregon) today.

Quoted message said:

whereas Heprain isn't. Coumadin is an orally
administered blood thinner also, but it works on an entirely different
part of the clotting cascade, and it also requires lab tests also to
monitor for effectiveness.

a state of the art

Quoted message said:

drug - so she was doing everything right. I needed to ask the doctor
if my brother had gotten her to the hospital the first time she fell
if the outcome would have been different. The doctor replied with an
unqualified NO. She said that sort of stroke could have happened in
the hospital and the results would have been the same.

It certainly does sound like she has been a risk for a while. 🙁

Apparently, so. I'm beginning to think it's genetic and I will
eventually be at risk too. (her brother, my uncle, died of a suspected
blod clot).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

OK... here is the information I hope you remember: I asked the doctor
why she would go to the bathroom so many times when she only goes on
an average of once a night (to my knowledge). The doctor told me that
strokes commonly cause *an urge to urinate*, which explains why she
was found in the bathroom every time.

I've never heard of this before and I deal with fresh stroke patients
all the time? They certainly can be "confused" and that confusion might
present as confusion about the feeling like one needs to piddle.

I talked directly with the neurologist and it is apparently a
symptom...a reverse *something* - I was stressed at the time and I
don't remember what she said. I just remember that she sounded
surprised that I asked about a connection and she replied
affirmatively.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So, if you have a loved one who is exhibiting signs of confusion etc.
AND has more frequent than normal urges to urinate, please take that
person to the hospital as soon as possible. Above all, DON'T ask them
multiple times if they are OK and accept it. Use your own judgment:
If it doesn't seem normal, it probably isn't - so let a doctor decide
if there is real a problem or not!

Elderly, women in particular, often experience urinary tract infections.
They can in fact be quite subtle, and found by accident when looking at
other problems. Confusion would get a work up for a UTI right off too.

Thanks for the insight, but that one isn't on the radar screen. Heart
attacks and blod clots are what they are talking about right now.

Quoted message said:

I'm sorry about your mother and hope she is as comfortable as can be.
Take care of yourself also during these stressful times. Keep me posted
about her condition.

Thanks.. let's talk via rfc chat sometime in the future. I'll be
there later tonight.

http://www.penguinpowered.ca/~vexorg/pjirc/rec.food.cooking.html

"sf" <see_real_ address_in_return_reply> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 10:06:00 -0500, Goomba38 <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I don't want to think anyone will over react and assume any frequent
urination means someone is working on a stoke.

Using my family as the bellweather, because they don't resort to
emergency measures - even when it's obvious: I want people to
recognize and heed the warning signs.

and I for one, am very grateful that you did.

sf said:

On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 10:06:00 -0500, Goomba38 <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I don't want to think anyone will over react and assume any frequent
urination means someone is working on a stoke.

Using my family as the bellweather, because they don't resort to
emergency measures - even when it's obvious: I want people to
recognize and heed the warning signs.

That's what I was trying to tell you. I even spoke to the folks at the
Stroke Center last night and relayed this topic. They agreed with what I
said- no one has heard of the idea that impending stroke patients need
to urinate any more than anyone else. It is a different problem.
Goomba

On Sat, 03 Dec 2005 09:06:34 -0500, Goomba38 <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I even spoke to the folks at the
Stroke Center last night and relayed this topic. They agreed with what I
said- no one has heard of the idea that impending stroke patients need
to urinate any more than anyone else. It is a different problem.

More likely to be diabetes.

Carol
--

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/head_trollop/my_photos