OT: This is pretty cool (alternative car fuel)

Discussion in 'Mountain Bikes' started by Slacker, May 22, 2003.

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  1. Slacker

    Slacker Guest

    http://www.projectbiobus.com/

    Dang, if this stuff really works without jacking up you engine, looks like we have a great
    alternative to gasoline. I do see potential downside, people getting even fatter from whiffing the
    fumes and pulling into the nearest drive-thru for some fries.

    --
    Slacker
     
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  2. Microthing

    Microthing Guest

    "Slacker" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > http://www.projectbiobus.com/
    >
    > Dang, if this stuff really works without jacking up you engine, looks like
    we have a great alternative to gasoline. I do see
    > potential downside, people getting even fatter from whiffing the fumes and
    pulling into the nearest drive-thru for some fries.
    >
    > --
    > Slacker

    Yeah, some people have been using veggie oil to run their cars in Wales (UK) for a while -
    apparently you can convert any standard diesel engine to run on veggie for around 300 GBP.

    The only trouble is, this scummy govt fined them as they weren't paying tax on it (I'm NOT
    kidding.) In the UK you are supposed to pay something like 40p tax per litre, and if you figure out
    how much a litre of vegetable oil from the supermarket added to that tax is, guess what - it's only
    slightly cheaper than unleaded petrol. It's nice to know the world isn't really run by the oil
    people, isn't it?
     
  3. David Kunz

    David Kunz Guest

    Slacker wrote:
    > http://www.projectbiobus.com/
    >
    > Dang, if this stuff really works without jacking up you engine, looks like we have a great
    > alternative to gasoline. I do see potential downside, people getting even fatter from whiffing the
    > fumes and pulling into the nearest drive-thru for some fries.
    >
    > --
    > Slacker

    Biodiesel works (in diesel engines :)) and has been around for a while. Been discussed at length in
    some of the alternative energy groups. Some people even have deals with local resturants to get
    their used grease for free! Unfortunately, I believe that it's illegal for road use in the US
    <sigh>. I believe that you can tell pretty easily -- your car smells a bit like fries (a pleasant
    change :)).

    David
     
  4. Microthing

    Microthing Guest

    "MicroThing" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > "Slacker" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > http://www.projectbiobus.com/
    > >
    > > Dang, if this stuff really works without jacking up you engine, looks
    like
    > we have a great alternative to gasoline. I do see
    > > potential downside, people getting even fatter from whiffing the fumes
    and
    > pulling into the nearest drive-thru for some fries.
    > >
    > > --
    > > Slacker
    >
    > Yeah, some people have been using veggie oil to run their cars in Wales
    (UK)
    > for a while - apparently you can convert any standard diesel engine to run on veggie for around
    > 300 GBP.
    >
    > The only trouble is, this scummy govt fined them as they weren't paying
    tax
    > on it (I'm NOT kidding.) In the UK you are supposed to pay something like 40p tax per litre, and
    > if you figure out how much a litre of vegetable oil from the supermarket added to that tax is,
    > guess what - it's only slightly cheaper than unleaded petrol. It's nice to know the world isn't
    > really run by the oil people, isn't it?

    PS - you bikers had better watch out, coz once they figure out that it's FOOD that's powering your
    bikes, they'll be taxing that too! ;o) (and electricity and sunlight and wind and ...)
     
  5. Microthing

    Microthing Guest

    "David Kunz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > grease for free! Unfortunately, I believe that it's illegal for road use in the US <sigh>

    Any idea why? Apart from the usual "coz the govt aren't making money from it" crap?
     
  6. Bomba

    Bomba Guest

    MicroThing wrote:

    >>Yeah, some people have been using veggie oil to run their cars in Wales
    >
    > (UK)
    >
    >>for a while - apparently you can convert any standard diesel engine to run on veggie for around
    >>300 GBP.
    >>
    >>The only trouble is, this scummy govt fined them as they weren't paying
    >
    > tax
    >
    >>on it (I'm NOT kidding.) In the UK you are supposed to pay something like 40p tax per litre,

    Currently 49p on a litre of unleaded.

    and if you figure out how much a litre of vegetable oil
    >>from the supermarket added to that tax is, guess what - it's only slightly cheaper than unleaded
    >>petrol. It's nice to know the world isn't really run by the oil people, isn't it?
    >
    >
    > PS - you bikers had better watch out, coz once they figure out that it's FOOD that's powering your
    > bikes, they'll be taxing that too! ;o) (and electricity and sunlight and wind and ...)

    Food is already taxed throughout the EU, with the exception of the UK and Ireland. Yet for some
    reason, grocery shopping in the UK is still way more expensive than France, Luxembourg or Germany.

    FYI, aviation fuel isn't taxed, although the UK government are looking at doing that too (on top of
    normal airport taxes). Wonder who'll end up paying that then...

    There are times I'm really glad I no longer live there.

    --
    a.m-b FAQ: http://www.t-online.de/~jharris/ambfaq.htm

    b.bmx FAQ: http://www.t-online.de/~jharris/bmx_faq.htm
     
  7. Microthing

    Microthing Guest

    "bomba" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Food is already taxed throughout the EU, with the exception of the UK and Ireland. Yet for some
    > reason, grocery shopping in the UK is still way more expensive than France, Luxembourg or Germany.

    Rip-off Britain. Bloody Revolution anyone?
     
  8. Bomba

    Bomba Guest

    MicroThing wrote:

    >>grease for free! Unfortunately, I believe that it's illegal for road use in the US <sigh>
    >
    >
    > Any idea why? Apart from the usual "coz the govt aren't making money from it" crap?

    That's rather naive. You're basically adapting an engine designed for petrol / diesel to run on
    another form of fuel. The government has a responsibility, not only to make money, but to ensure the
    public's safety. There are obvious issues with Billy-Bob filling his car in his front yard with the
    left-over chip fat from the deep fat fryer.

    Then one has to look at the environmental output. Has anybody done any investigation in to the
    emissions from an engine adapted to run on grease? I doubt it. Has anyone done any investigation on
    the effects on the engine?

    Regulation makes a lot of sense in this sort of case.

    --
    a.m-b FAQ: http://www.t-online.de/~jharris/ambfaq.htm

    b.bmx FAQ: http://www.t-online.de/~jharris/bmx_faq.htm
     
  9. Microthing

    Microthing Guest

    "bomba" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > MicroThing wrote:
    >
    > >>grease for free! Unfortunately, I believe that it's illegal for road use in the US <sigh>
    > >
    > >
    > > Any idea why? Apart from the usual "coz the govt aren't making money
    from
    > > it" crap?
    >
    > That's rather naive. You're basically adapting an engine designed for petrol / diesel to run on
    > another form of fuel. The government has a responsibility, not only to make money, but to ensure
    > the public's safety. There are obvious issues with Billy-Bob filling his car in his front yard
    > with the left-over chip fat from the deep fat fryer.
    >
    > Then one has to look at the environmental output. Has anybody done any investigation in to the
    > emissions from an engine adapted to run on grease? I doubt it. Has anyone done any investigation
    > on the effects on the engine?
    >
    > Regulation makes a lot of sense in this sort of case.

    Yeah - except the regulation in the UK looks very much like the "let's regulate this threat to our
    income right out the window" - plus we are already paying Road Tax over here - so why so much tax on
    fuel too? And are you naive enough to believe that any of that tax money will be used to perform
    these investigations? I hope not.
     
  10. Microthing

    Microthing Guest

    "bomba" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > MicroThing wrote:
    >
    > >>grease for free! Unfortunately, I believe that it's illegal for road use in the US <sigh>
    > >
    > >
    > > Any idea why? Apart from the usual "coz the govt aren't making money
    from
    > > it" crap?
    >
    > That's rather naive. You're basically adapting an engine designed for petrol / diesel to run on
    > another form of fuel. The government has a responsibility, not only to make money, but to ensure
    > the public's safety. There are obvious issues with Billy-Bob filling his car in his front yard
    > with the left-over chip fat from the deep fat fryer.

    Sorry - what obvious issues?
     
  11. Bomba

    Bomba Guest

    MicroThing wrote:

    >>Regulation makes a lot of sense in this sort of case.
    >
    >
    > Yeah - except the regulation in the UK looks very much like the "let's regulate this threat to our
    > income right out the window" - plus we are already paying Road Tax over here - so why so much tax
    > on fuel too?

    AFAIAA, all countries pay road tax, at least all those in Europe do. You pay a lot of tax on
    fuel because it helps fund the government's policies and it's there to act as a deterrent to
    excessive car use.

    And are
    > you naive enough to believe that any of that tax money will be used to perform these
    > investigations? I hope not.

    And why would the government want to fund those studies?

    --
    a.m-b FAQ: http://www.t-online.de/~jharris/ambfaq.htm

    b.bmx FAQ: http://www.t-online.de/~jharris/bmx_faq.htm
     
  12. Bomba

    Bomba Guest

    MicroThing wrote:

    >>That's rather naive. You're basically adapting an engine designed for petrol / diesel to run on
    >>another form of fuel. The government has a responsibility, not only to make money, but to ensure
    >>the public's safety. There are obvious issues with Billy-Bob filling his car in his front yard
    >>with the left-over chip fat from the deep fat fryer.
    >
    >
    > Sorry - what obvious issues?

    The issues of the fuel would be my main concern. You have an unregulated source of fuel going in to
    an unregulated engine. There is no control over the quality of the fuel and there is nothing to say
    that the engine won't blow up, because it's not designed to take that sort of fuel.

    --
    a.m-b FAQ: http://www.t-online.de/~jharris/ambfaq.htm

    b.bmx FAQ: http://www.t-online.de/~jharris/bmx_faq.htm
     
  13. Microthing

    Microthing Guest

    "bomba" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > AFAIAA, all countries pay road tax, at least all those in Europe do. You pay a lot of tax on fuel
    > because it helps fund the government's policies and it's there to act as a deterrent to excessive
    > car use.

    So they want us to stay at home eh? But they also want us to shop so we can pay VAT. And they also
    want us to work so we can pay income tax. And they really want us to drive too so that we can pay
    road and fuel tax. Surely you don't still believe that fuel tax is supposed to be any sort of
    deterrent.

    > And are
    > > you naive enough to believe that any of that tax money will be used to perform these
    > > investigations? I hope not.
    >
    > And why would the government want to fund those studies?

    Eh???? You just said:

    > The government has a responsibility, not only to make money, but to ensure the public's safety.

    Putting taxation on something is condoning it's use - so if they are taxing vegetable oil as a fuel
    then they must already "know" that it's safe - just as they "know" that petrol and diesel are safe.

    Tell me - do you work for the government?
     
  14. Microthing

    Microthing Guest

    "bomba" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > MicroThing wrote:
    >
    > >>That's rather naive. You're basically adapting an engine designed for petrol / diesel to run on
    > >>another form of fuel. The government has a responsibility, not only to make money, but to ensure
    > >>the public's safety. There are obvious issues with Billy-Bob filling his car in his front yard
    > >>with the left-over chip fat from the deep fat fryer.
    > >
    > >
    > > Sorry - what obvious issues?
    >
    > The issues of the fuel would be my main concern. You have an unregulated source of fuel going in
    > to an unregulated engine. There is no control over the quality of the fuel and there is nothing to
    > say that the engine won't blow up, because it's not designed to take that sort of fuel.

    The fact that they've figured out a taxation system for it says very clearly to me that they are
    condoning it's use, and it therefore must be safe in their eyes. Otherwise they should outlaw it.
     
  15. Shaun Rimmer

    Shaun Rimmer Guest

    MicroThing <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > "bomba" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > MicroThing wrote:
    > >
    > > >>That's rather naive. You're basically adapting an engine designed for petrol / diesel to run
    > > >>on another form of fuel. The government has a responsibility, not only to make money, but to
    > > >>ensure the public's safety. There are obvious issues with Billy-Bob filling his car in
    his
    > > >>front yard with the left-over chip fat from the deep fat fryer.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Sorry - what obvious issues?
    > >
    > > The issues of the fuel would be my main concern. You have an unregulated source of fuel going in
    > > to an unregulated engine. There is no control over the quality of the fuel and there is nothing
    > > to say that the engine won't blow up, because it's not designed to take that sort of fuel.
    >
    > The fact that they've figured out a taxation system for it says very
    clearly
    > to me that they are condoning it's use, and it therefore must be safe in their eyes. Otherwise
    > they should outlaw it.

    It is safe, there are no 'splodin engine issues - any one with even a basic knowledge of piston
    engines and their fuels can see this without any in-depth research. There are some issues of minor
    engine damage reported, but most of this relates only to it being used in un-modified engines, and
    is to do with the resins, waxes and hard esters produced when the oil is heated but not burned,
    causing the fuel injectors etc. to block. Stripping and cleaning of the relevant parts usually sees
    the engine perform correctly again.

    As far as toxicity goes, in it's raw state, it isn't, _period_. When burned, there are similar CO
    and large carbon particle issues as there are with diesel oil, but most of the other toxins
    associated with the piston engine combustion of diesel oil, are not present in the emissions.

    As you say MT - the government does condone it's use, and has clearly stated so, it just doesn't
    allow it to be used as a fuel without due fuel duty being paid.

    Shaun aRe - if I have anything wrong above, and any of you are better informed, please feel free to
    correct me - 'I like to know stuff'. ',;~}~
     
  16. David Kunz

    David Kunz Guest

    MicroThing wrote:
    > "David Kunz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >
    >>grease for free! Unfortunately, I believe that it's illegal for road use in the US <sigh>
    >
    >
    > Any idea why? Apart from the usual "coz the govt aren't making money from it" crap?
    >

    I think that the others have covered it.

    What I remember from the discussions:

    Taxes (the part that goes toward road maintenance)

    Emissions -- every fuel has to be tested and approved so every home maker of road fuel would need to
    have their fuel tested, etc.

    I remember these are also issues for people who want to use corn alcohol -- alone in a converted
    engine or mixed with gas in a stock engine.

    David
     
  17. Bomba

    Bomba Guest

    MicroThing wrote:

    >>AFAIAA, all countries pay road tax, at least all those in Europe do. You pay a lot of tax on fuel
    >>because it helps fund the government's policies and it's there to act as a deterrent to excessive
    >>car use.
    >
    >
    > So they want us to stay at home eh?

    No, they'd prefer for us to use our own power and public transport. Particularly for
    shorter journeys.

    But they also want us to shop so we can
    > pay VAT. And they also want us to work so we can pay income tax. And they really want us to drive
    > too so that we can pay road and fuel tax. Surely you don't still believe that fuel tax is supposed
    > to be any sort of deterrent.

    Like cigarettes? It's a slightly different situation, but the governmenet also makes a lot of money
    through tax on cigarettes, but continuing to raise the tax on them has acted as a deterrent and
    resulted in the government losing money.

    >>And are
    >>
    >>>you naive enough to believe that any of that tax money will be used to perform these
    >>>investigations? I hope not.
    >>
    >>And why would the government want to fund those studies?
    >
    >
    > Eh???? You just said:
    >
    >
    >>The government has a responsibility, not only to make money, but to ensure the public's safety.

    Why investigate something that's not being used?

    > Putting taxation on something is condoning it's use - so if they are taxing vegetable oil as a
    > fuel then they must already "know" that it's safe - just as they "know" that petrol and diesel
    > are safe.
    >
    > Tell me - do you work for the government?

    Yes. I read your e-mails.

    --
    a.m-b FAQ: http://www.t-online.de/~jharris/ambfaq.htm

    b.bmx FAQ: http://www.t-online.de/~jharris/bmx_faq.htm
     
  18. Bomba

    Bomba Guest

  19. Technician

    Technician Guest

    > Currently 49p on a litre of unleaded.

    Damn! i much prefer my $1.49/gallon here. (now, if i calculated this right, that's about
    0.240454p/liter, though i could be way off)
    --
    ~Travis

    travis57 at megalink dot net http://www.megalink.net/~farmers/
     
  20. Bomba

    Bomba Guest

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