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Mark Hickey <[email protected]> wrote:

>If you've never fasted for a day or two, you might be surprised the clarity of thought it produces
>(obviously, I'm not fasting now, huh?). ;-)

Screw that. Being from the 60's, I like to jolt myself with
psychedelic drugs or high THC pot to get the same effect with less effort ;-)

Of course, the same hypocritical right wing fanatics who say "get government off our backs" when
it comes to paying taxes and screwing people over in their business practices make an exception
for what I

acts), and make it illegal. Explain that logic.

And now they want to make it the business of government to espouse a particular religion.

We live in strange and difficult times.

--dt
 
GT said, > Why is it negative to think I have free will? Why does our Nation need
> guidance from an imaginary being? Is this the 12th century?

Christians have always sought out guidance since before the 12th century.

>Adding up all the Baptist congregations in the USA they form the largest religious group. It's
>called tyranny of the majority.

Its called doctrinally correct. Could it be that Baptists are fundamentalists and seek the truth
through scripture and is attractive to the Christian faith? Why do sincere Mtbers buy from a LBS
rather then Walmart?

> Yes, I see our dead soldiers. I guess they served a false god.

How ignorant! How can you compare? The numbers speek for themself. A righteous Nation is prevailing.
We are in a just war and will win.

> There you go, I must be dark because I don't believe in myth and legend. Exactly the attitude that
> this resolution encourages.

No no. Like I said before, things are more black and white then you think. You are not dark, just in
the dark. I was once in the dark and wondered about the light. I can now see the light and try to
stay away from darkness. What good can it bring?

It is not my intent to preach or indoctrinate anyone. I'm simply stating how I believe. You have
freedom to do as you wish and choose to believe in God or not. I have been a Christian since '82 and
know where I stand. I have not had a peachy life but have had many filling times and do believe I
have had help through rough times. I feel secure in the fact that my sin has been forgiven and I
have an advocate when I will finally stand before the judgement seat. I consider myself a dependable
person and steadfast in life. I'm content pretty much whereever I'm at in work or play. I will
support our leadership and President's request as will 75% of Judeao Christian America.

Cleanbean
 
"John Harlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:5q0ha.266233$qi4.149378@rwcrnsc54...
> > A typical response from someone opposed to faith in God. Are you going
to
> > throw the baby out with the bath water! Sure there are religious freaks
> out
> > there but your blasting religion in General and specifically "Baptist"
is
> > offensive. I don't see any harm with our Leadership asking for a day of fasting and prayer. I
> > welcome it. I think it will be respected by
other
> > Nations as well as Christians within our own Nation. If you haven't
> noticed
> > the "Gray" in our society is getting more black and white. Good and
evil
> > are becoming more distinguishable. Either "God" is or He isn't. One
can
> > cop out with negative remarks such as yours or one can have faith and
hope
> > that we do have a Supreme Being to guide us, our Nation in our time of need.
>
> And what of Iraq's "time of need"? Or does God hate them? Then why did
he
> make them? It was all just a cruel joke?
>
> > People are all warm and fuzzy until something tragic happens in their
> life.
> > Soldiers will tell you there are no atheists in fox holes. Faith and
hope
> > are the only thing that some people have. I'll go a step further; If
you
> > think that religion is the cause of wars and evil then I believe we need
> to
> > look at what "god" we are serving. For those that serve the righteous
God
> > will reap good will. I think we've seen the result of those that serve a false god such as the
> > ones we are at war with.
>
> And this is what is scariest about people like you. You actually believe your God is the "right"
> one and any other beliefs are "wrong" - to the
point
> of justifying killing them for it. How conceited!
>
> > Come over from the dark side. You just might see the light.
>
> Open your eyes. Look at what's going on around you.
>
On the contrary. We are not killing people for what they believe. We are killing them for their
actions. Iraq is only reaping what they sowed. You can sit around on your butt while Tyrants kill
their own people and produce WMD indangering the whole world, but not me.

My eyes are open. I see good and evil at work. You see only gray. You don't think the war effort is
justified? Do you think Sadam will be contained? Open your eyes man!

Cleanbean
 
"Doug Taylor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mark Hickey <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >If you've never fasted for a day or two, you might be surprised the clarity of thought it
> >produces (obviously, I'm not fasting now, huh?). ;-)
>
> Screw that. Being from the 60's, I like to jolt myself with
> psychedelic drugs or high THC pot to get the same effect with less effort ;-)
>
> Of course, the same hypocritical right wing fanatics who say "get government off our backs" when
> it comes to paying taxes and screwing people over in their business practices make an exception
> for what I

> acts), and make it illegal. Explain that logic.

That's easy logic. You are not coherent enough or wise enough to care about your own body or someone
else's body that would be a by product of your recklessness while under the influence. The
Government has to outlaw drugs so you don't ruin yourself or others.

> And now they want to make it the business of government to espouse a particular religion.
>
> We live in strange and difficult times.
>
> --dt

You think these are difficult times? Ask folks in other countries where their next meal comes from
and then ask yourself how difficult life is.

Cleanbean
 
"Cleanbean" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> I don't see any harm with our Leadership asking for a day of fasting and prayer. I welcome it.

Ramadan's over for this year, dude.

CC
 
Mark H says:

>I didn't see anything religion-specific in the article to get all worked up about.

Nothing specific, but ANY religion mixed up with Gov't affairs should be a no-no. Prayer is
religious - period.

STeve
 
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> > of justifying killing them for it. How conceited!
> >
> > > Come over from the dark side. You just might see the light.
> >
> > Open your eyes. Look at what's going on around you.
> >
> On the contrary. We are not killing people for what they believe. We are killing them for their
> actions. Iraq is only reaping what they sowed. You can sit around on your butt while Tyrants kill
> their own people and produce WMD indangering the whole world, but not me.
>
> My eyes are open. I see good and evil at work. You see only gray. You don't think the war effort
> is justified? Do you think Sadam will be contained? Open your eyes man!
>
> Cleanbean
>

Oh christ, where to begin on this one...
--
_________________________
Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia http://www.ramsays-online.com
 
"Stephen Baker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mark H says:
>
> >I didn't see anything religion-specific in the article to get all worked up about.
>
> Nothing specific, but ANY religion mixed up with Gov't affairs should be a no-no. Prayer is
> religious - period.
>
> STeve

Where does it say, "In God we Trust"? Did our forefathers make a mistake? Has the United States of
America been prosperous since? Something is happening that isn't right here. Some would have us take
the Pledge of Allegiance and "under God" out of it. What is happening to us? Are we getting so open
minded our brains are falling out? (chuckle) I don't think when the Constitution was written and
spelled out separation of chruch and state they wanted God out of the picture.

Cleanbean
 
"Cleanbean" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
|
| "Stephen Baker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
| news:[email protected]...
| > Mark H says:
| >
| > >I didn't see anything religion-specific in the article to get all worked up about.
| >
| > Nothing specific, but ANY religion mixed up with Gov't affairs should
be a
| > no-no. Prayer is religious - period.
| >
| > STeve
|
| Where does it say, "In God we Trust"? Did our forefathers make a
mistake?
| Has the United States of America been prosperous since? Something is happening that isn't right
| here. Some would have us take the Pledge of Allegiance and "under God" out of it. What is
| happening to us? Are we getting so open minded our brains are falling out? (chuckle) I don't
think
| when the Constitution was written and spelled out separation of chruch
and
| state they wanted God out of the picture.

Before you make yourself look like any more of an ignorant religious nut case, you might want to
educate yourself about the views that our forefathers had regarding religion, Christianity, and God.

--
Pete Fagerlin

Save Fruita trails! http://www.petefagerlin.com/bookcliffs.htm
 
"Cleanbean" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Doug Taylor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Mark Hickey <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > >If you've never fasted for a day or two, you might be surprised the clarity of thought it
> > >produces (obviously, I'm not fasting now, huh?). ;-)
> >
> > Screw that. Being from the 60's, I like to jolt myself with
> > psychedelic drugs or high THC pot to get the same effect with less effort ;-)
> >
> > Of course, the same hypocritical right wing fanatics who say "get government off our backs" when
> > it comes to paying taxes and screwing people over in their business practices make an exception
> > for what I

> > acts), and make it illegal. Explain that logic.
>
> That's easy logic. You are not coherent enough or wise enough to care
about
> your own body or someone else's body that would be a by product of your recklessness while under
> the influence. The Government has to outlaw
drugs
> so you don't ruin yourself or others.

Not true. It is about making money. It is about making billions of dollars.

darsh

>
> > And now they want to make it the business of government to espouse a particular religion.
> >
> > We live in strange and difficult times.
> >
> > --dt
>
> You think these are difficult times? Ask folks in other countries where their next meal comes from
> and then ask yourself how difficult life is.
>
> Cleanbean
 
CleanBean says:

>One can cop out with negative remarks such as yours or one can have faith and hope that we do have
>a Supreme Being to guide us, our Nation in our time of need.

The problem now is that we are breaking one of his 10 commandments - and the Bog One at that. "Thou
shalt not kill". It doesn't matter if someone is shooting at tyou or not, the rule is
self-explanatory. So, for GW to claim that here is a religious feeling behind the war is hypocracy
of the worst kind, and the worst kind of religious zealotry (the one that makes people use religion
to suit their own ends). If Bush were a true Christian, we woyuld not be at war and the Army would
not have guns.

Steve - and I said I was going ot stay out of this......
 
"P e t e F a g e r l i n" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Cleanbean" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> |
> | "Stephen Baker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> | news:[email protected]...
> | > Mark H says:
> | >
> | > >I didn't see anything religion-specific in the article to get all worked up about.
> | >
> | > Nothing specific, but ANY religion mixed up with Gov't affairs should
> be a
> | > no-no. Prayer is religious - period.
> | >
> | > STeve
> |
> | Where does it say, "In God we Trust"? Did our forefathers make a
> mistake?
> | Has the United States of America been prosperous since? Something is happening that isn't right
> | here. Some would have us take the Pledge of Allegiance and "under God" out of it. What is
> | happening to us? Are we getting so open minded our brains are falling out? (chuckle) I don't
> think
> | when the Constitution was written and spelled out separation of chruch
> and
> | state they wanted God out of the picture.
>
> Before you make yourself look like any more of an ignorant religious nut case, you might want to
> educate yourself about the views that our forefathers had regarding religion, Christianity, and
> God. Pete Fagerlin
>
> Save Fruita trails! http://www.petefagerlin.com/bookcliffs.htm

I'll do that Pete. In the meantime why don't you refresh us? Were they so strong about their views
that they would print it on our currency?

Cleanbean
 
"Cleanbean" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

| > | Where does it say, "In God we Trust"? Did our forefathers make a
| > mistake?
| > | Has the United States of America been prosperous since? Something is happening that isn't
| > | right here. Some would have us take the Pledge
of
| > | Allegiance and "under God" out of it. What is happening to us? Are
we
| > | getting so open minded our brains are falling out? (chuckle) I don't
| > think
| > | when the Constitution was written and spelled out separation of
chruch
| > and
| > | state they wanted God out of the picture.
| >
| > Before you make yourself look like any more of an ignorant religious
nut
| > case, you might want to educate yourself about the views that our forefathers had regarding
| > religion, Christianity, and God.

| I'll do that Pete. In the meantime why don't you refresh us? Were they
so
| strong about their views that they would print it on our currency?

I warned you thumper and you didn't heed my advice.

Your ignorance is appalling, yet all too common amongst thumpers.

IN GOD WE TRUST was not printed on our currency by our forefathers nimrod.

It was added to the two cent coin in 1864 and wasn't added to paper money until 1957.

Now would be a great time to start educating yourself.
 
I said:

>and the Bog One at that.

Leave it to me to screw up something like the BIG one... ;-)

Steve
 
Doug Taylor <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> Mark Hickey <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >If you've never fasted for a day or two, you might be surprised the clarity of thought it
> >produces (obviously, I'm not fasting now, huh?). ;-)
>
> Screw that. Being from the 60's, I like to jolt myself with
> psychedelic drugs or high THC pot to get the same effect with less effort ;-)
>
> Of course, the same hypocritical right wing fanatics who say "get government off our backs" when
> it comes to paying taxes and screwing people over in their business practices make an exception
> for what I

> acts), and make it illegal. Explain that logic.
>
> And now they want to make it the business of government to espouse a particular religion.

Now I read it over quickly and couldn't see which "particular religion" our government is espousing.
Did you? Catholic? Protestant? Methodist? Lutheran? Unitarian? Zoroastrian? Unitarian? Satanism?
Atheism? Humanism? New Age?

Paladin
>
> We live in strange and difficult times.
>
> --dt
 
"G.T." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> ...is regressing by the hour. And all along I thought there was a separation of state and church
> in this country. Soon we'll have an army of Baptist preachers calling us to prayer over
> loudspeakers spread across the land:
>
> http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/03/27/sprj.irq.fasting.ap/index.html
>
> Greg

I suppose if the election had gone the other way, we could have had a proclamation for a National
Day of Stupidity. And greepeacers would be out like and army with loudspeakers calling us to hug
trees. Just a thought...

Paladin
 
"Cleanbean" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:xR%[email protected]...
>
> GT said, > Why is it negative to think I have free will? Why does our Nation need
> > guidance from an imaginary being? Is this the 12th century?
>
> Christians have always sought out guidance since before the 12th century.
>
> >Adding up all the Baptist congregations in the USA they form the largest religious group. It's
> >called tyranny of the majority.
>
> Its called doctrinally correct. Could it be that Baptists are fundamentalists and seek the truth
> through scripture and is attractive to the Christian faith? Why do sincere Mtbers buy from a LBS
> rather then Walmart?
>
> > Yes, I see our dead soldiers. I guess they served a false god.
>
> How ignorant! How can you compare? The numbers speek for themself. A righteous Nation is
> prevailing. We are in a just war and will win.
>
> > There you go, I must be dark because I don't believe in myth and legend. Exactly the attitude
> > that this resolution encourages.
>
> No no. Like I said before, things are more black and white then you
think.
> You are not dark, just in the dark. I was once in the dark and wondered about the light. I can now
> see the light and try to stay away from darkness. What good can it bring?
>
> It is not my intent to preach or indoctrinate anyone. I'm simply stating how I believe. You have
> freedom to do as you wish and choose to believe
in
> God or not. I have been a Christian since '82 and know where I stand. I have not had a peachy life
> but have had many filling times and do believe
I
> have had help through rough times. I feel secure in the fact that my sin has been forgiven and I
> have an advocate when I will finally stand before the judgement seat. I consider myself a
> dependable person and steadfast
in
> life. I'm content pretty much whereever I'm at in work or play. I will support our leadership and
> President's request as will 75% of Judeao Christian America.
>
> Cleanbean
>
>

I've followed this thread with increasing amounts of shock and awe, as well as hilarity. But, now I
have to tell you that you're just the kind of religious nutcase that puts the fear into freedom
loving people everywhere!

BTW, is that 75% of white judeao Christian America? And where do you get 75% from anyway? Is that
the same 75% who believe Iraq was responsible for the Twin Towers atrocity.?

Bush, and his sleazy governments' links to the Christian right and corrupt industrialists are ever
increasingly exposed by those media organisations which don't themselves have their own reasons for
supporting his government and their policies. More so since the war began in Iraq.

Pete Fagerlin is too kind in restricting his description of you as a 'thumper', a "righteous nation
prevailing" indeed! There's no need to subscribe to outlandish conspiracy theories about the
political Right in America to understand that a coup happened when the Supreme Court ruled for Bush,
and that Bush and the religious right are gradually eroding the American Constitution and hard won
individual rights. And clearly you are one of the 'crowd' who subscribe to religious hijacking of
the body politic, and Bush's warped political agenda.

It's people like you slavishly supporting Bush's dangerous policies out of some religious zeal that
have damaged some of the genuine goodwill and sympathy that many people around the world have for
America, particularly since 9/11, and have given just cause for the fear many in the Muslim world
have of 'Christian' America. Worse, you and those like you, in your attitudes and support for Bush
have managed to outrage and inflame moderates in the Muslim community around the world.

Ian (the atheist in the foxhole) Rogers
 
On 28 Mar 2003 15:13:29 -0800, Paladin <[email protected]> wrote:

> "G.T." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>..
>> ...is regressing by the hour. And all along I thought there was a separation of state and church
>> in this country. Soon we'll have an army of Baptist preachers calling us to prayer over
>> loudspeakers spread across the land:
>>
>> http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/03/27/sprj.irq.fasting.ap/index.html
>>
>> Greg
>
> I suppose if the election had gone the other way, we could have had a proclamation for a National
> Day of Stupidity. And greepeacers would be out like and army with loudspeakers calling us to hug
> trees. Just a thought...
>
> Paladin
>

What, you mean if GW Bush had won the election? I can see the national day of stupidity thing, but
not the tree-hugging...

Miles

--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
 
"Ian Rogers" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

| I've followed this thread with increasing amounts of shock and awe, as well as hilarity. But, now
| I have to tell you that you're just the kind of religious nutcase that puts the fear into freedom
| loving people everywhere!
|
| BTW, is that 75% of white judeao Christian America? And where do you get 75% from anyway? Is that
| the same 75% who believe Iraq was responsible for the Twin Towers atrocity.?
|
| Bush, and his sleazy governments' links to the Christian right and corrupt industrialists are ever
| increasingly exposed by those media organisations which don't themselves have their own reasons
| for supporting his government and their policies. More so since the war began in Iraq.
|
| Pete Fagerlin is too kind in restricting his description of you as a 'thumper', a "righteous
| nation prevailing" indeed! There's no need to subscribe to outlandish conspiracy theories about
| the political Right in America to understand that a coup happened when the Supreme Court ruled for
| Bush, and that Bush and the religious right are gradually eroding the American Constitution and
| hard won individual rights. And clearly you are one of the 'crowd' who subscribe to religious
| hijacking of the body politic, and Bush's warped political agenda.
|
| It's people like you slavishly supporting Bush's dangerous policies out of some religious zeal
| that have damaged some of the genuine goodwill and sympathy that many people around the world have
| for America, particularly since 9/11, and have given just cause for the fear many in the Muslim
| world have of 'Christian' America. Worse, you and those like you, in your attitudes and support
| for Bush have managed to outrage and inflame moderates in the Muslim community around the world.
|

|
| Ian (the atheist in the foxhole) Rogers

Isn't usenet great?

We can both agree that cleanbean the revival dancing machine is a thumper yet I strongly disagree
with your Bush/Supreme Court/religious hijacking screed.

--
Pete Fagerlin

Save Fruita trails! http://www.petefagerlin.com/bookcliffs.htm
 
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