Our (USA) military kicks ass!!!

[Chris Phillipo]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>... <snip>
>
> > Oh, and the use of cluster bombs is not making the life after the war any safer - around 15% of
> > the explosive charges in cluster bombs doesn't exploded
>
> That would really depend on the subordinance wouldn't it? Which system has a 15% failure rate?
> What kind AP? AT? HE? What fuse type? Trip? Time dealy? Prox?
>
> > but are left lying around afterwards like mines.
>
> Some of the subordinance are mines. That said, most are cylindrical or spherical.
>
>
> > Oh and some of them look like food aid packages :-(
>
> Now that is just plain wrong. None of the current BLU- series sub's look like a food aid package.
> My guess is you have zero hours of experience with the systems, or you have know idea what "food
> aid packages" look like.
>
>
> Reco
>

They do however look like tin cans in their un deployed form.
--
_________________________
Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia http://www.ramsays-online.com

 

[Chris Phillipo]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
>
> Before anyone jumps on the "I saw it on T.V." bandwagon:
>
> Cluster Bombs Submunitions Incendiary CBU-2 BLU-26 Sadeye M36 TH-3 cluster CBU-3 BLU-38 M43 BZ
> cluster CBU-7 BLU-42 CBU-12 BLU-43

Next time you can just post the link:

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/dumb/

It doesn't really matter if they look like food aid packages, since they also come in both large and
small meat tin shape, toilet plunger shape and now new lemon scented happy fun ball shape. You know,
for the kids.

How does the average non english reading Iraqi know what a food aid package is supposed to look
like anyway?
--
_________________________
Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia http://www.ramsays-online.com

 

[Reco Diver]

"Simon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> "Reco Diver" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> | "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
> | <snip>
> | <snip>
> | > Oh and some of them look like food aid packages :-(
> |
> | Now that is just plain wrong. None of the current BLU- series sub's look like a food aid
> | package. My guess is you have zero hours of experience with the systems, or you have know idea
> | what "food aid packages" look like.
> |
> |
> | Reco
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/1670891.stm
>
> Just for your info
>
> Simon

Was that supposed to suggest that there is a BLU- that looks like a HDR? My guess is that the
reporter had zero hours of experience with the systems.

It's a hype story. BLU-'s don't look like HDR's. At most HDR's, at one time, shared coloration
similar to the markings on any one of several
H.E. Sub's.

I personally like the picture with the caption "Bomblets are yellow like U.S. food packets." Take a
look at the photo. What color is the packet that the guy in the BDU's is pointing at? Sure doesn't
look yellow. Nor does it look to be the same size or condition as the yellow HDR in the first photo.

BTW As I pointed out before, HDR's are now being produced in red/orange packets (see my other post).
The article is ~ a year and a half old.

Just for your info (as posted before):

Cluster Bombs Submunitions Incendiary CBU-2 BLU-26 Sadeye M36 TH-3 cluster CBU-3 BLU-38 M43 BZ
cluster CBU-7 BLU-42 CBU-12 BLU-43 CBU-14 BLU-61 CBU-22 BLU-63 CBU-24 BLU-68 CBU-25 BLU-73 FAE I
CBU-28 BLU-77 CBU-29 BLU-91 Gator AT CBU-30 BLU-92 Gator AP CBU-33 BLU-95 FAE-II CBU-34/42 BLU-96
FAE-II CBU-38 BLU-97 CEB CBU-46 BLU-108 Skeet CBU-49 BLU-114 (graphite bomb) CBU-52 BLU-115 CBU-54
CBU-55 CBU-58 CBU-59 Rockeye-II CBU-70 CBU-71 CBU-75 Sadeye CBU-78 Gator CBU-87 CEM CBU-89 Gator
CBU-94 CBU-97 SFW MK20 Rockeye DAACM

Find the one that looks like and HDR (google or Janes). My bet is they are talking about the Gator.
But it isn't yellow, nor is it packaged in a plastic bag that says "food" (HDR) all over it.

Reco

 

[Chris Phillipo]

> picked up by the US military as proof of lies by Iraq and when it was later found that it was in
> fact silkworm and Alsamouth2 rockets it wasn't rectified in the same matter as the original
> reports.
>
> Now the US is kicking the Al Jazeara TV channel for being one side, but come on if idependent news
> are suppresed then how can we know the truth. If you only watch CNN/FOX/ABC... at least check the
> BBC and a few other none US news sources.
>

Oh you forgot the best part, Iraq booting Al Jazeera reporters for being pro US. Geeze you refer to
the government as "the regeim" a couple times and suddenly you're on the unemployment line with
Heraldo

--
_________________________
Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia http://www.ramsays-online.com

 

[Chris Phillipo]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> On Thu, 3 Apr 2003 06:32:58 +0000 (UTC), "Wilcox" <[email protected] top posted by email:
>
> >Yea we have kicked their ass beford! :}) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Jones"
> ><[email protected]> Newsgroups: alt.mountain-bike Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 1:32 AM
> >Subject: Re: Our (USA) military kicks ass!!!
> >
> >
> >> On Thu, 03 Apr 2003 02:53:33 GMT, "Slacker" <[email protected]> blathered:
> >>
> >> They're certainly good at kicking British ass.
>
> I'm glad you find it amusing. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2901515.stm
>
>
>
> Pete
> ----
> http://www.btinternet.com/~peteajones/
>

Ya sounds familiar, and they wonder why we don't send some more guys from Canada over for them to
bomb before they even get to go on their first mission.
--
_________________________
Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia http://www.ramsays-online.com

 

[Chris Phillipo]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> Chris Phillipo <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> Yep, makes you proud. Good thing the take-down and extraction weren't being video-taped by Ted
> >> Koppel, Dan Rather or Benedict Arnett. You'd probably not see a PC-approved etiquette of
> >> engagement. "Knock-knock! Who's there? Seal Team. Abdul, you order seal team? Sea-World visit
> >> Iraq! No? 72 virgin camels, get ready, here we come!"
>
> >Actually you'd probably see that the hospital was in an area no longer controlled by the Iraqi
> >military.
>
> Musta been the orderlies firing on the extraction team, huh? They change a few too many bedpans,
> and they're ready to take someone down I guess... ;-)
>
> Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame

I love the way CNN reports something Al Jazeera says and always follows with "But of course we can't
verify that", but when Cencom tells them how something happened, it's gospel.

--
_________________________
Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia http://www.ramsays-online.com

 

[L Hays]

"Chris Phillipo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> > picked up by the US military as proof of lies by Iraq and when it was later found that it was in
> > fact silkworm and Alsamouth2 rockets it wasn't rectified in the same matter as the original
> > reports.
> >
> > Now the US is kicking the Al Jazeara TV channel for being one side, but come on if idependent
> > news are suppresed then how can we know the truth. If you only watch CNN/FOX/ABC... at least
> > check the BBC and a few other none US news sources.
> >
>
> Oh you forgot the best part, Iraq booting Al Jazeera reporters for being pro US. Geeze you refer
> to the government as "the regeim" a couple times and suddenly you're on the unemployment line with
> Heraldo
>
> --
> _________________________
> Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia http://www.ramsays-online.com

He's not unemployed, just not in Iraq anymore.

Saw him this morning,

Lance

 

[Chris Phillipo]

> It's a hype story. BLU-'s don't look like HDR's. At most HDR's, at one time, shared coloration
> similar to the markings on any one of several
> H.E. Sub's.
>
> I personally like the picture with the caption "Bomblets are yellow like U.S. food packets." Take
> a look at the photo. What color is the packet that the guy in the BDU's is pointing at? Sure
> doesn't look yellow. Nor does it look to be the same size or condition as the yellow HDR in the
> first photo.
>
> BTW As I pointed out before, HDR's are now being produced in red/orange packets (see my other
> post). The article is ~ a year and a half old.

So when do you head to Iraq to inform everyone of the distinction?
--
_________________________
Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia http://www.ramsays-online.com

 

[Chris Phillipo]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>
> "Chris Phillipo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > > picked up by the US military as proof of lies by Iraq and when it was later found that it was
> > > in fact silkworm and Alsamouth2 rockets it wasn't rectified in the same matter as the original
> > > reports.
> > >
> > > Now the US is kicking the Al Jazeara TV channel for being one side, but come on if idependent
> > > news are suppresed then how can we know the truth. If you only watch CNN/FOX/ABC... at least
> > > check the BBC and a few other none US news sources.
> > >
> >
> > Oh you forgot the best part, Iraq booting Al Jazeera reporters for being pro US. Geeze you refer
> > to the government as "the regeim" a couple times and suddenly you're on the unemployment line
> > with Heraldo
> >
> > --
> > _________________________
> > Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia http://www.ramsays-online.com
>
> He's not unemployed, just not in Iraq anymore.
>
> Saw him this morning,
>
> Lance
>
>
>

Oh does Fox have a sand map division now?
--
_________________________
Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia http://www.ramsays-online.com

 

[Simon]

<big snip>

Yawn, so when did I start listening to a war expert thats not over in Iraq?

Maybe I was dreaming it all!

Simon.......wonders how many iraqi children can read "food"

 

[Reco Diver]

"Simon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> <big snip>
>
> Yawn, so when did I start listening to a war expert thats not over in Iraq?

Did my time. And I wasn't a "war expert" then. That said, I did my job, but nothing could get me
back now. Foxtrot Oscar

My MO was recovery ... lost and found. Am I an expert on "war" No. Had to take military history and
such, but I am no expert.

Am I an expert on BLU-'s? No, (that's what powder monkeys are for) but I did have to go to class and
be able to recognize the variety by its shape and or markings (you cant trust color at depth).

> Maybe I was dreaming it all!

Probably not. Then again I remeber rolling out of my rack when the Kursk went down. We were all
watching the BBC and CNN feeds, and the reporters are talking about the hardhatters "Looking for
surviors by pounding on the hull wtih special hammers." Special hammers? First thing I did when I
got on deck was ask the XO if we could order a couple. Of course we didn't get any, we were after an
aircraft ... and we already knew the disposition of the crew.

> Simon.......wonders how many iraqi children can read "food"

Probably none, and that's really the point.

It wouldn't be a news story if the reporter said that someone picked up a device that looked like a
tin can with legs .... in a war zone ... and it blew an arm off. It is much more a story if you can
say that the U.S. is dropping bombs that look just like food packets.

The results would be the same .... but it wouldn't be a story. Just like those special hammers.

Reco

 

[Chris Phillipo]

> Probably none, and that's really the point.
>
> It wouldn't be a news story if the reporter said that someone picked up a device that looked like
> a tin can with legs .... in a war zone ... and it blew an arm off. It is much more a story if you
> can say that the U.S. is dropping bombs that look just like food packets.
>
> The results would be the same .... but it wouldn't be a story. Just like those special hammers.
>
> Reco
>

Hey those 2000 pounders look like footballs. So many wide receiver's careers ruined for want of a
pair of glasses.
--
_________________________
Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia http://www.ramsays-online.com

 

[Slacker]

> [email protected] says...
> > "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:<[email protected]>...
> >
> > Before anyone jumps on the "I saw it on T.V." bandwagon:
> >
> > Cluster Bombs Submunitions Incendiary CBU-2 BLU-26 Sadeye M36 TH-3 cluster CBU-3 BLU-38 M43 BZ
> > cluster CBU-7 BLU-42 CBU-12 BLU-43
>
>
> Next time you can just post the link:
>
> http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/dumb/
>
> It doesn't really matter if they look like food aid packages, since they also come in both large
> and small meat tin shape, toilet plunger shape and now new lemon scented happy fun ball shape. You
> know, for the kids.
>
> How does the average non english reading Iraqi know what a food aid package is supposed to look
> like anyway?
> --
> _________________________
> Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia

Hey.... http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/dumb/cbu-24.htm I know a Cocoa Puff dispenser when I see
one....where's the milk (or female camel) ??
--
Slacker

 

[Reco Diver]

"Slacker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > [email protected] says...
> > > "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:<[email protected]>...
> > >
> > > Before anyone jumps on the "I saw it on T.V." bandwagon:
> > >
> > > Cluster Bombs Submunitions Incendiary CBU-2 BLU-26 Sadeye M36 TH-3 cluster CBU-3 BLU-38 M43 BZ
> > > cluster CBU-7 BLU-42 CBU-12 BLU-43
> >
> >
> > Next time you can just post the link:
> >
> > http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/dumb/
> >
> > It doesn't really matter if they look like food aid packages, since they also come in both large
> > and small meat tin shape, toilet plunger shape and now new lemon scented happy fun ball shape.
> > You know, for the kids.
> >
> > How does the average non english reading Iraqi know what a food aid package is supposed to look
> > like anyway?
> > --
> > _________________________
> > Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia
>

<My news reader doesn't show this part of the thread ... so>

Thanks for the link. I copied mine out of a platisc coated NATO "Symbol Seeker."

Reco

 

[Jeremy]

[email protected] (Reco Diver) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...

[...]

> > Oh and some of them look like food aid packages :-(
>
> Now that is just plain wrong. None of the current BLU- series sub's look like a food aid package.
> My guess is you have zero hours of experience with the systems, or you have know idea what "food
> aid packages" look like.

Luckily Iraqi kids are all experts on thr characteristics of US ordinance, right?

J.

 

[Westie]

"Reco Diver" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
>
> Before anyone jumps on the "I saw it on T.V." bandwagon:
>
> Cluster Bombs Submunitions Incendiary CBU-2 BLU-26 Sadeye M36 TH-3 cluster CBU-3 BLU-38 M43 BZ
> cluster CBU-7 BLU-42 CBU-12 BLU-43 CBU-14 BLU-61 CBU-22 BLU-63 CBU-24 BLU-68 CBU-25 BLU-73 FAE I
> CBU-28 BLU-77 CBU-29 BLU-91 Gator AT CBU-30 BLU-92 Gator AP CBU-33 BLU-95 FAE-II CBU-34/42 BLU-96
> FAE-II CBU-38 BLU-97 CEB CBU-46 BLU-108 Skeet CBU-49 BLU-114 (graphite bomb) CBU-52 BLU-115 CBU-54
> CBU-55 CBU-58 CBU-59 Rockeye-II CBU-70 CBU-71 CBU-75 Sadeye CBU-78 Gator CBU-87 CEM CBU-89 Gator
> CBU-94 CBU-97 SFW MK20 Rockeye DAACM
>
>
> This list pretty much covers U.S. "cluster bombs" from Vietnam on up. .... Can someone point out
> that one that looks like a HDR ("food package")? The U.S. does not produce a submunition that
> looks like a big plastic bag that say "FOOD" on the outside.
>
> My guess it that they have some of the BLU-91B or BLU-92B mines. Probably from the CBU-89 Gator
> Mine. The CBU-89 is a 1,000-pound cluster munition containing antitank and antipersonnel mines.
> The BLU-91B or BLU-92B mines are at least close to the size of a food packet at ~ 5 3/4 x 5 x 2
> 1/2 inches, but it still isn't packaged in a plastic bag.
>
> The confusion is probably from the color of the submunitions and older HDR's, more than the
> submunition actually "looking" like an HDR. The NATO color standardization for Ammunition gives:
>
> Yellow H.E. Brown L.E. Dark Red Riot Control Dark Violet Incapacitating Agent Silver Counter
> Measures Green Screening
>
> BTW HDR's are now being packaged in a sort of orange/red/brown bag. The Yellow bag is out of
> production (although it is probably still in use).
>
> This kind of reporting goes right along with the 1980's reporting that the Soviet forces were
> dropping clusters that looked like toys. The Russian PFM-1 and PFM-1S(Butterfly mines) have been
> in use for years and don't look like toys, they are a bit like the U.S. Dragontooth mines (anyone
> from the Vietnam era?).
>
> Of course every once in a while you hear about some kid picking up munitions from as far back as
> WWI .... guess to a child everything looks like a toy or a perhaps a "food packet".
>
> To say that a "cluster bomb looks like a food package (HDR)" is wrong. Some submunitions may be
> square. Some submunitions may have yellow markings. No submunition, currently produced, is
> packaged in a big yellow (orange/red/brown) plastic bag.
>

I believe that the anti-personnel bomblets being used are the size of two bright yellow beercans end
to end with a small (roughly 6" diameter) plastic "bag" on one end. The "bag" is inflated as the
bomblet is ejected from the bomb housing and it provides some stability in flight so that the
bomblet lands nose down. Unless you mistake the bomblet for an 'extra' serve size, bright yellow,
exploding beercan with it's own built-in carry bag then it doesn't particularly resemble a food
package. Then again, it doesn't much resemble a bomb like in the movies either.
--
Westie
> Reco.

 

[Pete Jones]

On Mon, 7 Apr 2003 16:05:55 +1200, "Westie" <[email protected]> blathered:

>bright yellow, exploding beercan with it's own built-in carry bag then it doesn't particularly
>resemble a food package. Then again, it doesn't much resemble a bomb like in the movies either.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1855000/video/_1857222_bombs03_ingram_vi.ram http://www.familypractic-
e.com/journal/abfpjournal_frame.htm?main=/journal/1998/v11.n06/1106.10/art-1106.10.htm
http://www.ausaid.gov.au/publications/focus/focuspdfs/1002/focus1002_16.pdf
http://www.undp.org/dpa/choices/december99/laos.htm

Thank God they're now using more 'user-friendly' cluster bombs.

Pete
----
http://www.btinternet.com/~peteajones/

 

[Reco Diver]

"Westie" <[email protected]> wrote in message

<snip.>

> I believe that the anti-personnel bomblets being used are the size of two bright yellow beercans
> end to end with a small (roughly 6" diameter) plastic "bag" on one end. The "bag" is inflated as
> the bomblet is ejected from the bomb housing and it provides some stability in flight so that the
> bomblet lands nose down. Unless you mistake the bomblet for an 'extra' serve size, bright yellow,
> exploding beercan with it's own built-in carry bag then it doesn't particularly resemble a food
> package. Then again, it doesn't much resemble a bomb like in the movies either.

Ahh yes ... A very good friend (Sgt. Santa USMC) hit one of those Anti-Personnel/Materiel Bonmblets
while on patrol in a Chenoweth. Deadly buggers. They helped develop the dispersion pattern here ...
then again they also developed DU penetrator shapes here.

BTW this is "here":

http://www.EMRTC.nmt.edu/

Check out "Car bomb test" and "600 lb. ANFO test" The ANFO test is a partially directed blast.
Notice the burst, near the end of the clip, that moves directly towards the the standing target.
They should have had Fagerlin add music.

> Then again, it doesn't much resemble a bomb like in the movies either.

Recently had a guy show me three M-1907 75 mm projectiles. WWI vintage Powder Train Timed Fuse
Anti-Personnel projectiles, 20 pounders. His belief, "They're inert." No way to prove it. The PTTF
fuse rings were still in place, as was the primary cover (thats ons screw that isn't worth turning).
They had been fired, most likely around 1915-1917. Could be inert ... could be duds (Duds kill). Why
would anyone pick up something that even had the remote possibility of being live?

Stupidity knows no bounds.

Isn't it about time for this thread to die?

 

[Twohat]

"Slacker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> http://www.pbase.com/image/15035624/small there she is being carried off
to safety.
>
>
> Rescued PoW arrives in Germany From correspondents at Ramstein Air Base, Germany April 03, 2003
>
> FORMER PoW Jessica Lynch has arrived at an air base in Germany after her
dramatic rescue by US special forces in Iraq.
>
> The US Army Private was flown into Ramstein Air Base on a C-17 transport
plane for treatment at a US military medical centre this
> morning (AEST).
>
> Four medics carried Lynch on a stretcher from the back of the plane and
lifted her into a green military ambulance.
>
> She was then driven under police escort to the Landstuhl Regional Medical
Centre about 4kms away.
>
> She will be treated for combat wounds suffered during her capture by Iraqi
forces.
>
> Landstuhl spokesman Norris Jones said she would be examined immediately,
but that no information would be released about her
> condition.
>
> US officials in Kuwait, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Lynch was
believed to have broken legs, a broken arm and at least
> one gunshot wound.
>
> Lynch was accompanied by 13 crew and medical personnel on the flight from
Kuwait, said Major Mike Young, a spokesman for the 86th
> Airlift Wing. She was the only injured soldier aboard the plane.
>
> The 19-year-old supply clerk was rescued by US special operations forces
who slipped behind enemy lines and seized her from an Iraqi
> hospital.
>
> She was captured by the Iraqis more than a week ago after her maintenance
unit made a wrong turn and was ambushed in Nasiriyah.
>
> Twelve other members of her unit were also feared captured, and five of
them have been officially listed as PoWs.
>
> Eleven bodies, some believed to be Americans, were found when Lynch was
rescued, but their identities have not been confirmed.
>
> Agence France-Presse
>
>
> --
> Slacker
>
>
>

Delete. Garbage. The only reason they are the mightiest force on the planet is the mega-millions of
dollars they spend. Our (British) army is relatively impoverished but far more professional. They
are a credit to us all, even more so for standing back and saying nowt when the cowboys keep killing
us. Bloody overpaid amateurs!

 

[Chris Phillipo]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> Delete. Garbage. The only reason they are the mightiest force on the planet is the mega-millions
> of dollars they spend. Our (British) army is relatively impoverished but far more professional.
> They are a credit to us all, even more so for standing back and saying nowt when the cowboys keep
> killing us. Bloody overpaid amateurs!
>
>

Maybe this is true for all military people but I've noted that watching Americans fighting on the
ground on CNN is like watching people play paintball or shoot at bear cans. Joe some 1 ordered to
get his ass up on the road with a Javalin missile and hit the target, can't get the missile to work,
starts screaming something about the missle being broke and almost looks like he's going to cry,
runs back with it in his hand, pointing the malfunctioning launcher at his platoon. Second guy comes
up to the plate with another one. His buddies yelling "Shoot! Shoot!" the whole time he's trying to
line up a shot, then they get a hit and everyone's jumping around like it was a field goal in the
last 30 seconds. Maybe they were ordered to make it look like a good time on camera, made me wish I
was there.
--
_________________________
Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia http://www.ramsays-online.com