out of the saddle



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M

Mike S.

Guest
"santa" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> should i spin (at least try)? or is it ok to mash?
>
Yes. Depending on what you're doing at the time, either will work. If you're climbing a hill, you
want to shift 1-3 gears "harder" (physically smaller gears) to slow your cadence some. If you're
sprinting, then you'll probably want to spin faster.

This is a GROSS generalization. Take it for what its worth.

Mike
 
C

Cycling Joe

Guest
do whichever you want dude, it doesn't really matter.

santa wrote:

>should i spin (at least try)? or is it ok to mash?
>
>
 
G

Gary

Guest
There is a time to spin and a time to mash. A season for everything.

santa wrote:

> should i spin (at least try)? or is it ok to mash?
 
K

Kyle Legate

Guest
On Fri, 31 Jan 2003, santa wrote:

> "santa" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > should i spin (at least try)? or is it ok to mash?
> climbing
>
Depends on the climb, but the general rule is to try to spin as much as you can. For short climbs
hit the bottom spinning, stand when your cadence drops to stay on top of the gear and accelerate
back to spinning when you crest. For long climbs you should set a goal for rpms (lower than you
would use on the flat, but faster than say...60), and when you start to drop to the low end of your
set range stand to build momentum and stretch the muscles. In a racing situation if you can spin on
the climbs you will be better able to handle changes in tempo and respond to attacks. If you mash it
will be much more difficult to change your speed. Case in point: watch some old Tour videos and
study Armstrong (spinner) and Ullrich (masher). Ullrich's achilles heel in the mountains is his
inability to vary his pace and respond to increases in tempo.

... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . [email protected] Kyle Legate [email protected]

Tower of Tongues:Thursday PM:10:30-11:30 EDT:http://cfmu.mcmaster.ca moon
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easyrider

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Dec 6, 2002
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Yep, Lance spins like mad. But not all the time. He goes into the ultra-high cadence when he attacks and towards the end of stages but even he is turning a more conservative rate over the earlier passes of a mountain stage. Spinning like mad is fine for awhile but NOBODY can do it forever.

Try both methods during hill repeats at equal speeds and keep your eye on your heart rate monitor. You'll see which is better for you.
 
H

Heinz Getzler

Guest
easyrider <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> Yep, Lance spins like mad. But not all the time. He goes into the ultra-high cadence when he
> attacks and towards the end of stages but even he is turning a more conservative rate over the
> earlier passes of a mountain stage. Spinning like mad is fine for awhile but NOBODY can do it
> forever.
Quite frankly I amazed that Lance is able to climb out the saddle for such extended periods of time.

Personally I prefer spinning in the saddle. A rider uses a lot less energy climbing in the saddle. I
have found that in most cases you can climb as fast seated as you can out of the saddle. Providing
that a rider has sufficent strength a rider can always shift to larger gear to accelerate while
climbing. This assumes of course that the rider is able to spin that larger gear.One trick to
perfect your spinning technique while climbing is hold the tops of the handlebars with only your
fingertips. The advantage here is that forces you to pedal more smoothly.

> Try both methods during hill repeats at equal speeds and keep your eye on your heart rate monitor.
> You'll see which is better for you.
 
E

Ewoud Dronkert

Guest
On 5 Feb 2003 15:23:44 -0800, Heinz Getzler wrote:
>Personally I prefer spinning in the saddle. A rider uses a lot less energy climbing in the saddle.
>I have found that in most cases you can climb as fast seated as you can out of the saddle.

It isn't about energy efficiency, it's about being first on the top.
 
A

Amit

Guest
Ewoud Dronkert <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> On 5 Feb 2003 15:23:44 -0800, Heinz Getzler wrote:
> >Personally I prefer spinning in the saddle. A rider uses a lot less energy climbing in the
> >saddle. I have found that in most cases you can climb as fast seated as you can out of the
> >saddle.
>
> It isn't about energy efficiency, it's about being first on the top.

A recent French study showed standing a climbing wasn't any less energy efficient than seated
climbing, unless you consider aerodynamics.

ie. Don't fret about standing steep sections if you need to.

-Amit
 
H

Heinz Getzler

Guest
Ewoud Dronkert <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> On 5 Feb 2003 15:23:44 -0800, Heinz Getzler wrote:
> >Personally I prefer spinning in the saddle. A rider uses a lot less energy climbing in the
> >saddle. I have found that in most cases you can climb as fast seated as you can out of the
> >saddle.
>
> It isn't about energy efficiency, it's about being first on the top.

Winning is always the primary objective. But make no mistake energy efficency plays a big role in
climbing. This is why Lance spins at such a high rate.
 
H

Heinz Getzler

Guest
[email protected] (Amit) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]sting.google.com>...
> Ewoud Dronkert <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
> > On 5 Feb 2003 15:23:44 -0800, Heinz Getzler wrote:
> > >Personally I prefer spinning in the saddle. A rider uses a lot less energy climbing in the
> > >saddle. I have found that in most cases you can climb as fast seated as you can out of the
> > >saddle.
> >
> > It isn't about energy efficiency, it's about being first on the top.
>
> A recent French study showed standing a climbing wasn't any less energy efficient than seated
> climbing, unless you consider aerodynamics.
What study are you refering to???
> ie. Don't fret about standing steep sections if you need to.
>
> -Amit
 
A

Amit

Guest
[email protected] (Heinz Getzler) wrote in message

> What study are you refering to???

Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise 2002; 34(10):1645-1652 Level ground and uphill cycling
efficiency in seated and standing positions GRÉGOIRE P. MILLET; CYRILLE TRONCHE; NICOLAS FUSTER;
ROBIN CANDAU

from the abstract:

Gradient or body position appears to have a negligible effect on external efficiency in field-based
high-intensity cycling exercise. Greater short-term power can be produced in standing position,
presumably due to a greater force developed per revolution. However, the technical features of the
standing position may be one of the most determining factors affecting the metabolic responses.

-Amit
 
P

Per ElmsäTer

Guest
"Heinz Getzler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ewoud Dronkert <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > On 5 Feb 2003 15:23:44 -0800, Heinz Getzler wrote:
> > >Personally I prefer spinning in the saddle. A rider uses a lot less energy climbing in the
> > >saddle. I have found that in most cases you can climb as fast seated as you can out of the
> > >saddle.
> >
> > It isn't about energy efficiency, it's about being first on the top.
>
> Winning is always the primary objective. But make no mistake energy efficency plays a big role in
> climbing. This is why Lance spins at such a high rate.

I've heard so many say now that Lance is spinning much faster than his competition going uphill.
Does anybody know how fast that is.

Ie is he spinning at 85 when they are doing 70 or at 110 when they are doing
95.There are some people spinning really fast in my club, but they seem to be overspinning, ie they
have too low a gear in so it's almost like they are standing still. Spinning fast is no good
unless you're spinning a relatively high gear.

Me for instance I can't spin faster than 70 going uphill or I lose my breath, so that's where I am
the strongest. When my cadence goes down I stand up shortly to bring it back up instead of changing
to a lower gear.

--
Replace the dots to reply

Perre
 
R

Ronde Chimp

Guest
On 11 Feb 2003 20:56:16 -0800, [email protected] (Amit) wrote:

>[email protected] (Heinz Getzler) wrote in message
>
>> What study are you refering to???
>
>Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise 2002; 34(10):1645-1652 Level ground and uphill cycling
>efficiency in seated and standing positions GRÉGOIRE P. MILLET; CYRILLE TRONCHE; NICOLAS FUSTER;
>ROBIN CANDAU
>
>from the abstract:
>
>Gradient or body position appears to have a negligible effect on external efficiency in field-based
>high-intensity cycling exercise. Greater short-term power can be produced in standing position,
>presumably due to a greater force developed per revolution. However, the technical features of the
>standing position may be one of the most determining factors affecting the metabolic responses.
>
>
>-Amit

That looks like a very interesting report; any chance you could upload it in e-form?

Thanks, Chimp de Ronde
 
H

Heinz Getzler

Guest
"Per Elms ter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> "Heinz Getzler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Ewoud Dronkert <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
> > > On 5 Feb 2003 15:23:44 -0800, Heinz Getzler wrote:
> > > >Personally I prefer spinning in the saddle. A rider uses a lot less energy climbing in the
> > > >saddle. I have found that in most cases you can climb as fast seated as you can out of the
> > > >saddle.
> > >
> > > It isn't about energy efficiency, it's about being first on the top.
> >
> > Winning is always the primary objective. But make no mistake energy efficency plays a big role
> > in climbing. This is why Lance spins at such a high rate.
>
> I've heard so many say now that Lance is spinning much faster than his competition going uphill.
> Does anybody know how fast that is.
>
> Ie is he spinning at 85 when they are doing 70 or at 110 when they are doing
> 95.There are some people spinning really fast in my club, but they seem to be overspinning, ie
> they have too low a gear in so it's almost like they are standing still. Spinning fast is no
> good unless you're spinning a relatively high gear.
The key is can they produce sufficent speed with a high cadence. I agree with you the key is to be
able to spin a larger gear.
>
> Me for instance I can't spin faster than 70 going uphill or I lose my breath, so that's where I am
> the strongest. When my cadence goes down I stand up shortly to bring it back up instead of
> changing to a lower gear.
 
A

Amit

Guest
ronde chimp <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> On 11 Feb 2003 20:56:16 -0800, [email protected] (Amit) wrote:
>
> >[email protected] (Heinz Getzler) wrote in message
> >
> >> What study are you refering to???
> >
> >Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise 2002; 34(10):1645-1652 Level ground and uphill cycling
> >efficiency in seated and standing positions GRÉGOIRE P. MILLET; CYRILLE TRONCHE; NICOLAS FUSTER;
> >ROBIN CANDAU
> >
>
> That looks like a very interesting report; any chance you could upload it in e-form?
>

Not easily. The findings probably confirm what many people already knew. There's nothing in the
findings that would make me think about changing the way I ride. The main points are already in the
the abstract:

-efficiency doesn't depend on grade or standing vs. seated position -max. power is attained
while standing

-Amit
 
H

Heinz Getzler

Guest
[email protected] (Amit) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> Ewoud Dronkert <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
> > On 5 Feb 2003 15:23:44 -0800, Heinz Getzler wrote:
> > >Personally I prefer spinning in the saddle. A rider uses a lot less energy climbing in the
> > >saddle. I have found that in most cases you can climb as fast seated as you can out of the
> > >saddle.
> >
> > It isn't about energy efficiency, it's about being first on the top.
>
> A recent French study showed standing a climbing wasn't any less energy efficient than seated
> climbing, unless you consider aerodynamics.

I have not had a chance to read the study, but I find it very hard to believe. Just try climbing out
of saddle for a long climb. The only riders who are able to stand for long periods of time are
riders like Pantani or Van Impe. If the study were realistic and true then why aren't the riders
climbing out the saddle all the time?? The reason is simple trying to move upper body mass consumes
a lot of energy.
> ie. Don't fret about standing steep sections if you need to.
>
> -Amit
 
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