out of the saddle

[Corey Green]

[email protected] (Heinz Getzler) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] (Amit) wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
> > Ewoud Dronkert <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:<[email protected]>...
> > > On 5 Feb 2003 15:23:44 -0800, Heinz Getzler wrote:
> > > >Personally I prefer spinning in the saddle. A rider uses a lot less energy climbing in the
> > > >saddle. I have found that in most cases you can climb as fast seated as you can out of the
> > > >saddle.
> > >
> > > It isn't about energy efficiency, it's about being first on the top.
> >
> > A recent French study showed standing a climbing wasn't any less energy efficient than seated
> > climbing, unless you consider aerodynamics.
>
> I have not had a chance to read the study, but I find it very hard to believe. Just try climbing
> out of saddle for a long climb. The only riders who are able to stand for long periods of time are
> riders like Pantani or Van Impe. If the study were realistic and true then why aren't the riders
> climbing out the saddle all the time?? The reason is simple trying to move upper body mass
> consumes a lot of energy.
> > ie. Don't fret about standing steep sections if you need to.
> >
> > -Amit

Doesn't the ability to stand and climb have more to do with training than "just because"? I know
several guys that do long climb repeats by alternating standing and seating styles during the
workout. That is one time up they climb seated the entire way, next time they climb standing the
entire way. Prepares their muscles and their brain for times when they will have to stand and climb
as well as times when they can sit and spin.

I am sure that Pantani and Armstrong and anyone who can climb standing spends time working on that
ability. It is no different than a sprinter working on his technique. I haven't seen the results
yet, but I spent this winter working on the trainer on the ability to stand and climb for longer
periods of time. Seems to be working, but we will see once the ice clears off the roads.

Corey

 

[Gary]

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This may have been mentioned before, but I NEED to stand from time-to-time on a climb just to loosen
up my leg muscles. I was following Lance at the Ride For The Roses and he stood during a seemingly
easy climb. One of the press guys with me said, "Aren't you supposed to stay in the saddle?" Lance
remarked that he just needed to loosen up a bit by standing. Gary

Corey Green wrote:

>[email protected] (Heinz Getzler) wrote in message
>news:<[email protected]>...
>
>
>>[email protected] (Amit) wrote in message
>>news:<[email protected]>...
>>
>>
>>>Ewoud Dronkert <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:<[email protected]>...
>>>
>>>
>>>>On 5 Feb 2003 15:23:44 -0800, Heinz Getzler wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Personally I prefer spinning in the saddle. A rider uses a lot less energy climbing in the
>>>>>saddle. I have found that in most cases you can climb as fast seated as you can out of the
>>>>>saddle.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>It isn't about energy efficiency, it's about being first on the top.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>A recent French study showed standing a climbing wasn't any less energy efficient than seated
>>>climbing, unless you consider aerodynamics.
>>>
>>>
>>I have not had a chance to read the study, but I find it very hard to believe. Just try climbing
>>out of saddle for a long climb. The only riders who are able to stand for long periods of time are
>>riders like Pantani or Van Impe. If the study were realistic and true then why aren't the riders
>>climbing out the saddle all the time?? The reason is simple trying to move upper body mass
>>consumes a lot of energy.
>>
>>
>>>ie. Don't fret about standing steep sections if you need to.
>>>
>>>-Amit
>>>
>>>
>
>
>Doesn't the ability to stand and climb have more to do with training than "just because"? I know
>several guys that do long climb repeats by alternating standing and seating styles during the
>workout. That is one time up they climb seated the entire way, next time they climb standing the
>entire way. Prepares their muscles and their brain for times when they will have to stand and climb
>as well as times when they can sit and spin.
>
>I am sure that Pantani and Armstrong and anyone who can climb standing spends time working on that
>ability. It is no different than a sprinter working on his technique. I haven't seen the results
>yet, but I spent this winter working on the trainer on the ability to stand and climb for longer
>periods of time. Seems to be working, but we will see once the ice clears off the roads.
>
>Corey
>
>

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<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <title></title>
</head> <body> This may have been mentioned before, but I NEED to stand from time-to-time on a climb
just to loosen up my leg muscles. I was following Lance at the Ride For The Roses and he stood
during a seemingly easy climb. One of the press guys with me said, "Aren't you supposed to stay in
the saddle?" Lance remarked that he just needed to loosen up a bit by standing.<br> Gary <br> <br>
Corey Green wrote:<br> <blockquote type="cite"
cite="[email protected]"> <pre wrap=""><a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a> (Heinz
Getzler) wrote in message news:<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:a58727ec.0302121704.76-
[email protected]"><[email protected]></a>... </pre>
<blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap=""><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a> (Amit) wrote in message news:<a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email protected]"><df5-
[email protected]></a>... </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre
wrap="">Ewoud Dronkert <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:[email protected]"><[email protected]></a> wrote in message news:<a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email protected]"><h-
[email protected]></a>... </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre
wrap="">On 5 Feb 2003 15:23:44 -0800, Heinz Getzler wrote: </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre
wrap="">Personally I prefer spinning in the saddle. A rider uses a lot less energy climbing in the
saddle. I have found that in most cases you can climb as fast seated as you can out of the saddle.
</pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap="">It isn't about energy efficiency, it's about being first on the
top. </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap="">A recent French study showed standing a climbing wasn't any
less energy efficient than seated climbing, unless you consider aerodynamics. </pre> </blockquote>
<pre wrap="">I have not had a chance to read the study, but I find it very hard to believe. Just try
climbing out of saddle for a long climb. The only riders who are able to stand for long periods of
time are riders like Pantani or Van Impe. If the study were realistic and true then why aren't the
riders climbing out the saddle all the time?? The reason is simple trying to move upper body mass
consumes a lot of energy. </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">ie. Don't fret about standing
steep sections if you need to.

-Amit </pre> </blockquote> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""><!---->

Doesn't the ability to stand and climb have more to do with training than "just because"? I know
several guys that do long climb repeats by alternating standing and seating styles during the
workout. That is one time up they climb seated the entire way, next time they climb standing the
entire way. Prepares their muscles and their brain for times when they will have to stand and climb
as well as times when they can sit and spin.

I am sure that Pantani and Armstrong and anyone who can climb standing spends time working on that
ability. It is no different than a sprinter working on his technique. I haven't seen the results
yet, but I spent this winter working on the trainer on the ability to stand and climb for longer
periods of time. Seems to be working, but we will see once the ice clears off the roads.

Corey </pre> </blockquote> <br> </body> </html>

--------------060908050302070203070100--

 

[Corey Green]

While I have no idea what gear he was in (maybe someone smarter on this board does) Lance was
spinning noticably faster in the second individual time trial in the 2002 TdF. Though he was in a
smaller gear than other riders is was still a large gear and it was documented that he was spinning
in the 120-130 rpm range during a significant portion of that time trial.

It was noticably faster than anyone else in the same time trial. Everyone else seemed to be pushing
the largest gear available.

Corey

"Per Elms ter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> "Heinz Getzler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Ewoud Dronkert <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
> > > On 5 Feb 2003 15:23:44 -0800, Heinz Getzler wrote:
> > > >Personally I prefer spinning in the saddle. A rider uses a lot less energy climbing in the
> > > >saddle. I have found that in most cases you can climb as fast seated as you can out of the
> > > >saddle.
> > >
> > > It isn't about energy efficiency, it's about being first on the top.
> >
> > Winning is always the primary objective. But make no mistake energy efficency plays a big role
> > in climbing. This is why Lance spins at such a high rate.
>
> I've heard so many say now that Lance is spinning much faster than his competition going uphill.
> Does anybody know how fast that is.
>
> Ie is he spinning at 85 when they are doing 70 or at 110 when they are doing
> 95.There are some people spinning really fast in my club, but they seem to be overspinning, ie
> they have too low a gear in so it's almost like they are standing still. Spinning fast is no
> good unless you're spinning a relatively high gear.
>
> Me for instance I can't spin faster than 70 going uphill or I lose my breath, so that's where I am
> the strongest. When my cadence goes down I stand up shortly to bring it back up instead of
> changing to a lower gear.

 

[Psycholist]

Watch Lance on all of his major climbing assaults. Yes he has a high seated spin rate that is his
signature ... but he's out of the saddle alot, too. When he puts in the attack, it's always out of
the saddle and he really mixes it up between in and out of the saddle thereafter.

Bob C. "Heinz Getzler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ewoud Dronkert <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > On 5 Feb 2003 15:23:44 -0800, Heinz Getzler wrote:
> > >Personally I prefer spinning in the saddle. A rider uses a lot less energy climbing in the
> > >saddle. I have found that in most cases you can climb as fast seated as you can out of the
> > >saddle.
> >
> > It isn't about energy efficiency, it's about being first on the top.
>
> Winning is always the primary objective. But make no mistake energy efficency plays a big role in
> climbing. This is why Lance spins at such a high rate.

 

[Per ElmsäTer]

psycholist wrote:
> Watch Lance on all of his major climbing assaults. Yes he has a high seated spin rate that is his
> signature ... but he's out of the saddle alot, too. When he puts in the attack, it's always out of
> the saddle and he really mixes it up between in and out of the saddle thereafter.
>

This is of course so but not the whole truth. I was watching him climbing on a video clip from the
TdF just last night. I was on my Trainer spinning about 80 and he was spinning significantly slower
than me at the time. Maybe 65-70. Of course he had left the pack behind at this time. The clip I'm
talking about is on the CTS Climbing Video.

--
Replace the dots to reply

Perre

 

[Corey Green]

Not trying to split hairs, but don't they show those clips in slo-mo? Got the same tape and I didn't
think they were at full speed.

"Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> psycholist wrote:
> > Watch Lance on all of his major climbing assaults. Yes he has a high seated spin rate that is
> > his signature ... but he's out of the saddle alot, too. When he puts in the attack, it's always
> > out of the saddle and he really mixes it up between in and out of the saddle thereafter.
> >
>
> This is of course so but not the whole truth. I was watching him climbing
on
> a video clip from the TdF just last night. I was on my Trainer spinning about 80 and he was
> spinning significantly slower than me at the time.
Maybe
> 65-70. Of course he had left the pack behind at this time. The clip I'm talking about is on the
> CTS Climbing Video.
>
> --
> Replace the dots to reply
>
> Perre

 

[Per ElmsäTer]

Corey Green wrote:
> Not trying to split hairs, but don't they show those clips in slo-mo? Got the same tape and I
> didn't think they were at full speed.
>

Didn't think of that. Yes that would make matters quite different wouldn't
it.Then again. If you've got the same Video you'll have noticed that Carmichael is putting climbing
intervals in there from 50 to 95 rpm. According to what he says Lance also does these workouts.

--
Replace the dots to reply

Perre

 

[Corey Green]

True - the intervals are quite interesting, especially when you contrast Lance's climbing style to
the intervals. I have been doing the intervals all winter and they seem to have improved the low
cadence endurance, but I don't think I will know for sure until the snow clears.

"Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Corey Green wrote:
> > Not trying to split hairs, but don't they show those clips in slo-mo? Got the same tape and I
> > didn't think they were at full speed.
> >
>
> Didn't think of that. Yes that would make matters quite different wouldn't
> it.Then again. If you've got the same Video you'll have noticed that
Carmichael
> is putting climbing intervals in there from 50 to 95 rpm. According to
what
> he says Lance also does these workouts.
>
> --
> Replace the dots to reply
>
> Perre

 

[Raptor]

I've counted Lance on his mountain attacks at full speed, and he's at 80-85 rpm out of the saddle.
It looks fast because it's faster than most others out of the saddle. I am basing this on a fairly
small but typical sample. More watching, counting and cheering is needed.

Corey Green wrote:
> Not trying to split hairs, but don't they show those clips in slo-mo? Got the same tape and I
> didn't think they were at full speed.
>
> "Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>psycholist wrote:
>>
>>>Watch Lance on all of his major climbing assaults. Yes he has a high seated spin rate that is his
>>>signature ... but he's out of the saddle alot, too. When he puts in the attack, it's always out
>>>of the saddle and he really mixes it up between in and out of the saddle thereafter.

--
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