Outragous

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by John Doe, Apr 15, 2003.

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  1. John Doe

    John Doe Guest

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  2. You apparently celebrate April Fools' Day a bit late in Oz.

    Steve McDonald
     
  3. John Doe

    John Doe Guest

    No April Fool. This guy has written before. He is dead serious and gives you a first hand look at
    our car culture that is second only to the US which can be seen by us being second to the US for
    obesity. ]

    Cheers Pete

    "Steve McDonald" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    :
    : You apparently celebrate April Fools' Day a bit late in Oz.
    :
    : Steve McDonald
    :
     
  4. B. Sanders

    B. Sanders Guest

    "John Doe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > No April Fool. This guy has written before. He is dead serious and gives you a first hand look at
    > our car culture

    Actually, though I think it's wrongheaded, he does make a few good points. I think his point about
    demographics glosses over other possibilities (such as lifestyle choices made by those who care
    about their health, and the environment).

    > that is second only to the US which can be seen by us being second to the US for obesity.

    I'm sorry to hear that. The car culture in the US is a juggernaut. It is completely out of control
    and beyond reason in many areas. The mention of energy saving, pollution reducing concepts such as
    carpooling elicits derisive laughter from most Americans. One driver, one car has become every
    American's birthright. New homes routinely have 3 and 4 car garages. The amount of money spent on
    new highway construction and road repair in the US is mind boggling. We're also ripping up train
    tracks as fast as possible, thus guaranteeing that over-the-road trucks will continue to belch
    pollution by the megaton and make the highways terribly unsafe.

    It's a miserable situation here. I have no problem with cars as long as they are used responsibly
    and engineered to be efficient. SUV's (very popular in the US) are both dangerous and grossly
    inefficient on the whole. They are rolling status symbols; and Americans can't get enough of them.

    -Barry
     
  5. Buck

    Buck Guest

    "Bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    <snip>

    > Basements and attics don't make a difference. I ride my bike around my neighborhood in CT, and the
    > houses will have 2-4 car garages with EVERY
    car
    > outside the garage. What's the garage used for? Storage. Also, they
    make
    > the garages so small that you can get a car in there, but you can't open
    the
    > door. For example, I'm renting a house with a one car garage. If I have
    a
    > passenger, I have to let the person out before I put the car in the
    garage,
    > else they have a heck of a time getting out. And I have a small car (Saab 9-3), as cars in America
    > go. I can barely fit my truck (Jeep Comanche) in the garage, and my truck is relatively small.

    Storage? Mine's a bicycle workshop! Alright, so there is some stuff stored in there and there is
    some exercise equipment. But this "two-car garage" is really an oversized one car garage. Before we
    moved anything into the garage, we experimented with putting both our vehicles in there. At that
    time we had a Sundbird and a Mazda truck. Bob is right, you couldn't get out of either vehicle
    without hitting the doors on either the other vehicle or the walls. And if you had to unload
    packages, you better do it before pulling in. We eventually gave up and turned it into a
    workshop/exercise/storage room.

    I met a fellow who had a really nice car except for a serious set of dings all in the same area.
    They just happened to line up with the rear door of the family car when both were parked in the
    garage....

    -Buck
     
  6. "B. Sanders" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    > ....The amount of money spent on new highway construction and road repair in the US is mind
    > boggling.....

    Most cyclists still rely on roads, and they generally like them properly repaired & maintanined, so
    I'm all in favour of spending money on road repairs if it gives us a smoother surface.
     
  7. John Doe

    John Doe Guest

    The mention of
    : energy saving, pollution reducing concepts such as carpooling elicits derisive laughter from most
    : Americans. One driver, one car has become
    every
    : American's birthright.

    This is very similar. One driver cars are very common during peak time. There is no car pooling.
    Most people using the car pooling lanes are people doing so illegally.

    :New homes routinely have 3 and 4 car garages.

    Same here as well. We also have a home obesity problem which is well reported.

    SUV's (very popular in
    : the US) are both dangerous and grossly inefficient on the whole. They are rolling status symbols;
    : and Americans can't get enough of them.

    We do as well (although we just call them 4wd). Status symbols, much more unsafe, especially for
    occupants of standard sedans and pedestrians/cyclists. However the size of ours are no where near as
    big as yours. I was in the US recently and I remember a local joking with me that the cars had to
    get bigger so they didnt make peoples arse (ass to you) look too big.

    Pete
     
  8. Andy Simpson

    Andy Simpson Guest

    "John Doe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Check out this guys take. This is probably our most respectable paper:
    >
    > http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/04/15/1050172595996.html
    >
    >

    These were the (printed) letters in the paper today - I think they picked a good selection to print:

    (subtitle) No, Tim. And we pedal pushers have heard it all before

    I was disappointed to see the Herald publish the uninformed, inaccurate and inconsistent drivel put
    forth by Tim Dare ("Putting a spoke in the pedal pumpers", Herald, April 16).

    Mr Dare trots out the usual cliches about cyclists being unlicensed, unregistered and not
    contributing to the costs of road infrastructure. He ignores the fact that cyclists do not control a
    huge piece of steel weighing more than a tonne, propelled by a powerful and polluting internal
    combustion engine, for which licensing and registration are an obvious necessity. I won't even start
    on the lack of skills and etiquette displayed by most Sydney drivers.

    Andrew Fatseas, Dulwich Hill, April 16.

    A now-penitent commuting cyclist for 10 years, I have had my eyes opened by Tim Dare's wit and
    rigorous argument. An activity I foolishly regarded as stimulating, healthy and sane I now see for
    the delusional, selfish anti-democratic sham it is.

    Tim has missed a greater danger, however: pedestrians. Slow, erratic, unlicensed, a threat to
    themselves and society, they presume to take up swathes of paved surface which should rightfully be
    shared with cars and buses. These fedayeen of the footpath don't even have wheels, let alone motors.
    This just can't be right and we shouldn't put up with it. Tim, with your leadership we can make this
    the decade when we stamp the menace out once and for all.

    Ian Vaile, Balmain, April 16.

    Most of Tim Dare's criticisms have been answered by cycling advocates 20 years ago. We have moved
    on. Every Sydney council has a bike plan, even the city is soon to release one. If there is to be
    some discussion on cycling and cyclists, at least get in some experts and do a proper job.

    There is a lot to be discussed: how cycling to the train station could increase public transport
    use, not decrease it; how new urban design can make cycling more attractive (it is a selling point
    in most housing estates); how children and adults can get substantial health benefits from regular
    cycling; how motorists, pedestrians and cyclists need to understand each other better to improve
    road safety; how we can get councils to increase their expertise in bicycle planning.

    Bob Moore, Lilyfield, April 16.

    Tim Dare raises yet again the tired old furphy that cyclists are a lesser species of commuter as
    "there are no tests, licences, registration fees". Tim, I pay registration on my vehicle and my
    choice not to drive it has a positive effect on air quality. I also paid GST on my $3000 bike
    (unlike new cars which are in fact cheaper under this regime) and I can't claim my ride-to-work bike
    as a fringe benefit.

    My third-party insurance policy with Bicycle NSW costs me $69 a year and provides $20 million in
    coverage for anyone I may collide with.

    Simon Tredinnick, Stanmore, April 16.
     
  9. Fritz M

    Fritz M Guest

    "Andy Simpson" <[email protected]> quoted some letters to
    the editor:

    > My third-party insurance policy with Bicycle NSW costs me $69 a year and provides $20 million in
    > coverage for anyone I may collide with.
    >
    > Simon Tredinnick, Stanmore, April 16.

    Wow, is it really that smart to publicize how much insurance coverage he has?

    RFM
     
  10. John Doe

    John Doe Guest

    > My third-party insurance policy with Bicycle NSW costs me $69 a year
    : > and provides $20 million in coverage for anyone I may collide with.
    : >
    : > Simon Tredinnick, Stanmore, April 16.

    Its a standard policy. I have it too. You get $20mil for personal or property damage directly
    or indirectly caused. You can get that information off their website. For $89 it covers the
    whole family.
     
  11. Well, why the man himself is obviously living in the overpowered automotive thirties, he does have
    one good point (and I know I'm probably gong to get blasted for this) Perhaps it would be a good
    idea for bicyclists to receive lessons on the ROTR, as well as be tested for their knowledge of it.

    It is a statistical fact that many, if not most accidents ARE the result of some stupidity of the
    cyclist. If only ignorance of how to ride safely.

    How many of us, as cyclists, have cursed, silently or otherwise, the cycling dodo who insists on
    riding "south in the northbound lane"? Screams through stop signs as if the whole world should stop
    for him? continues to dominate the center of the lane, holding up traffic, refusing to show simple
    courtesy by pulling over enough for it to pass, even though it's perfectly safe for him to do so?

    With examples like this, is it any wonder the uninitiated write articles like this one?

    I think not. They are making ALL cyclists look bad, and it's the good guys that end up suffering for
    the bad example they set for the rest of us.

    OK, I'm getting off my soap box now :-3)

    May you have the wind at your back. And a really low gear for the hills! Chris

    Chris'Z Corner "The Website for the Common Bicyclist": http://www.geocities.com/czcorner
     
  12. On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 17:06:36 -0400 in rec.bicycles.misc, "Raymo853" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I love rails-to -trails stuff but as an advocate of rail travel I am torn about this.
    >
    I'm not torn at all, since steve mcdonald is a well known liar who promoted bicycle segregation when
    BIKES BELONG ON ROADS. We need to save those rail rights of way for commuter rail lines, and for
    when the oil runs out.

    >
    > "Steve McDonald" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > I'm promoting the ripping up of train tracks in my region, so they can be converted to
    > > inter-city bikepaths.
    > >
    > > Steve McDonald
     
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