Overtrained ?

[Karp]

My Story:

I have done a good base, maybe three months of regular indoor training on my magnetic trainer. So about 1.5 months ago I started to put some intervals and climbing into my schedule, not the hard stuff, just to get used to the tougher training. 2*10 min and up and down a 500 metre long hill were the regular interval and climbing sessions. Two weeks ago I decided to go harder. My vacation started so I decided to ride every sexond day instead of three days a week. The first week felt great, I felt really strong. The second week I lost it all. My legs started to lack power, and when I finished my last endurance ride (60 km) I was totally empty, couldn´t produce any power at all and my legs have felt strangly sore and tiered for the last couple of days. I don´t do recovery rides, I feel better by taking a day off. The last two weeks I have done endurance ride, interval, hill climbing, and then over again. Also I haven´t been able to sleep during this week, and my legs feel very tiered.

Am I overtrained or do I just need a brake? Can you even get overtrained when taking a break every other day like I do? I am planning to ride easy tomorrow, and then I will go for a one-week vacation where I won´t touch a bike. Does this sound ok?

cheers

 

[Sillyoldtwit]

My Story:

I have done a good base, maybe three months of regular indoor training on my magnetic trainer. So about 1.5 months ago I started to put some intervals and climbing into my schedule, not the hard stuff, just to get used to the tougher training. 2*10 min and up and down a 500 metre long hill were the regular interval and climbing sessions. Two weeks ago I decided to go harder. My vacation started so I decided to ride every sexond day instead of three days a week. The first week felt great, I felt really strong. The second week I lost it all. My legs started to lack power, and when I finished my last endurance ride (60 km) I was totally empty, couldn´t produce any power at all and my legs have felt strangly sore and tiered for the last couple of days. I don´t do recovery rides, I feel better by taking a day off. The last two weeks I have done endurance ride, interval, hill climbing, and then over again. Also I haven´t been able to sleep during this week, and my legs feel very tiered.

Am I overtrained or do I just need a brake? Can you even get overtrained when taking a break every other day like I do? I am planning to ride easy tomorrow, and then I will go for a one-week vacation where I won´t touch a bike. Does this sound ok?

cheers

One thing you don't mention, besides your age is, what your diet is like - on and off the bike. (including fluid intake) Also, you said you did 3 months indoors on your trainer; what sort of training - would you describe it as L2/3 type training? TYSON

 

[vuce]

My Story:

I have done a good base, maybe three months of regular indoor training on my magnetic trainer. So about 1.5 months ago I started to put some intervals and climbing into my schedule, not the hard stuff, just to get used to the tougher training. 2*10 min and up and down a 500 metre long hill were the regular interval and climbing sessions. Two weeks ago I decided to go harder. My vacation started so I decided to ride every sexond day instead of three days a week. The first week felt great, I felt really strong. The second week I lost it all. My legs started to lack power, and when I finished my last endurance ride (60 km) I was totally empty, couldn´t produce any power at all and my legs have felt strangly sore and tiered for the last couple of days. I don´t do recovery rides, I feel better by taking a day off. The last two weeks I have done endurance ride, interval, hill climbing, and then over again. Also I haven´t been able to sleep during this week, and my legs feel very tiered.

Am I overtrained or do I just need a brake? Can you even get overtrained when taking a break every other day like I do? I am planning to ride easy tomorrow, and then I will go for a one-week vacation where I won´t touch a bike. Does this sound ok?

cheers

classic simptoms of overtraining i'd say. Lack of "apetite" for riding, insomnia, heavy legs... And yes, you can get overtrained when riding 3 days/week. It all depends on the fitness level you have. I'd recommend you to take some time of immediately, and then you'll see how it goes from there.

BTW, last time i was overtrained, i kept on riding, after a week i couldn't put a decent performance together and was cooked for two months.

 

[SolarEnergy]

I am no expert.

But I think that overtraining syndrom takes more than few weeks to take place.

Do you feed and sleep well? Wheather too hot, you have difficulty getting good night sleep?

For what it's worth, I think you are simply carrying an accute level of fatigue, and train with it (as opposed as being completely rested before each workout).

Some people like to fully recover from previous intense workout, before going out again for an other hard workout. If it's your case, then you may consider making sure in your planning that you go out for something ez when you feel tired from a previous workout. Also make sure you feed and sleep properly.

Think of overtraining syndrom as something that feels a bit like nervous system depression. As other have mentionned, some symptoms (and more important) some causes are commun.

What you experiment is probably more like overreaching, not overtraing. The best way to figure that out, is to take 2 days off. If you get all your legs back with such a short pause, then you're probably not overtrained.

 

[Doctor Morbius]

Am I overtrained or do I just need a break? Can you even get overtrained when taking a break every other day like I do? I am planning to ride easy tomorrow, and then I will go for a one-week vacation where I won´t touch a bike.

I have to agree with Solar Energy on this one. It takes several months not weeks to achieve an actual overtrained state. Overreaching is more likely the cause. After a week or two of lowered intensity & time or even some time off you should be back to normal.

Cumulative fatige is a problem in most types of training (except for perhaps bowling) where the demands and fatigue placed on the body build over time. That's why some coaches prescribe 3 weeks of progressivly harder training (2 for masters) followed by a recovery week. Do a google on "dual factor theory" to find some in depth information.

Even though you may only be riding every other day there are other factors that come into play such as your personal fitness levels, sleep and diet as mentioned by Vuce. If you look at some of the elite riders, their training may only include 3 days a week of intervals and the other rides are pretty easy by comparison. So even though they are cycling 6 days a week, most of those results come from just a few workouts. The rest are icing on the fitness cake.

 

[rule62]

I have only overtrained once. When I did, I wanted nothing to do with the bike, to the point that I am not sure that I would have even felt like making a post about it. And it took a good time to come back from it.

Overreaching sounds more like your situation to me too. Recover in earnest and see if that doesn't kick start your training.

 

[RapDaddyo]

What you experiment is probably more like overreaching, not overtraing. The best way to figure that out, is to take 2 days off. If you get all your legs back with such a short pause, then you're probably not overtrained.

Ditto.

 

[ewan52]

this happened to me a while back. i did too much intensity and felt like you do now. i just stopped training until i felt better when i went out on an easy ride. it took me 6 weeks but within 4 weeks of starting training again i was able to race so dont worry. you may be able to get ride of your tiredness with a week off. if you manage to start training your probably doing too much intensity. i dont know you so i cant give specific advice but id say reduce the amount of interval sessions and add more steady rides. im only 15 but im talking to a continental U23 whos one of the top riders in the UK right now on msn and he races and does easy rides inbetween, he doesnt do intervals or anything when hes racing, just racing and easy, steady rides. so you dont need constant intensity you need a balance, if your not racing then your going to need intervals but not all the time.

 

[SolarEnergy]

It's always a bit touchy to 'diagnose' overtraining syndrom on a public forum (I use the word 'diagnose' but am aware that it's not really appropriate as I am not a Doctor).

Because on a public forum, we only get part of the story. People will report having difficulty in their training, but won't mention having sleep disorder forcing them to take pills, being in a legal battle to keep the children after a divorce and such...

If anyone really feels overtrained, I suggest that you pm (private message) a member that you trust on this site or any other, and try to tell the whole story. Seeing a doctor might be a good idea too, depending on how deep the problem is.

 

[RapDaddyo]

It's always a bit touchy to 'diagnose' overtraining syndrom

Is there even a universal definition of "overtrained?" I have days when I feel as though I have no power, but I think it's entirely mental. It usually just means that I don't feel like pushing hard that day. I don't give it much thought, since the very next day I might feel like setting new MPs. Other days I just sort of run out of gas earlier than I think I should. Actually, that happened today on a club ride. The first hour was great, then on a long climb I just didn't feel like going hard. 200W was a chore. But, it was hot as hell and I just felt overheated. We stopped and got some cold water and I was back at it again, pushing the pace from the front. Toward the end, I ran out of gas again and sort of limped to the finish at 175W. Overtrained? I doubt it, tomorrow I'll be fine. If not, then the next day. Or the next. If this goes on for a month, I'll reconsider. But, it won't.

 

[Karp]

Thanks for all the good answers.

I am pretty new to cycling, having trained for about 3 years now, but due to the weather conditions I can only ride during the summer months. That´s why I bought the magnetic trainer, so I did 3 months of pretty easy training. 30-60 min, endurance (60-65 % heart rate).

But I used to be a good runner before going into cycling. Actually I have some problems with my feet and that´s why I started riding. I did 10k in under 40 min and I think I am reasonably fit. 180cm/5´11 feet, 65kg/145lbs. Am I to thin? Can that be the case? Anyway, I will just take it wasy for two weeks, and not ride anything at all. Then I will get back on the bike and see what will happen.

 

[Doctor Morbius]

Is there even a universal definition of "overtrained?"

Here you go Rap, read this article...

http://drsquat.com/articles/overreaching.html

Overreaching: An accumulation of training and/or non-training stress resulting in a short-term decrement in performance capacity with or without related physiological and psychological signs and symptoms of overtraining in which restoration of performance capacity may take from several days to several weeks.

Overtraining: An accumulation of training and/or non-training stress resulting in a long-term decrement in performance capacity with or without related physiological and psychological signs and symptoms of overtraining in which restoration of performance capacity may take from several weeks to several months.

 

[SolarEnergy]

Thanks for the paper DM.

Rap, the likelyhood of you getting overtrained is very low.

The beauty with the methodology you're developping, is that it is mostly performance based (allowing you to monitor any decrease in performance), it's pretty linear and it doesn't involved pre-scheduled overbooked mezocycles (where one must accept to 'underperform' for few weeks before properly resting).

Training induced overtraining is often the result of overreaching gambles.

In our swimming team, I have often witnessed the 'A' group going into 4 or 5 weeks of build up before unloading ever so slightly. During most of this time, athletes underperformed and it's normal. Problem is that 1 month of painful training (20hr/week + weight lifting) is probably enough to get you to the begining of overtraining state. You realize that when after the ez week, you still can't peform well. Then what do you do? Get into an other 6week long mezocycle. Few cycles like that and you're cooked.

The nervous system wants to protect itself, and gradually shuts down. That's one form of overtraining.

I did 10k in under 40 min and I think I am reasonably fit. 180cm/5´11 feet, 65kg/145lbs. Am I to thin?

Donno if you are too thin or not. That's hard to tell. Have you always been thin, or is this a sudden change?

 

[WarrenG]

... Two weeks ago I decided to go harder. My vacation started so I decided to ride every sexond day instead of three days a week. The first week felt great, I felt really strong. The second week I lost it all. My legs started to lack power, and when I finished my last endurance ride (60 km) I was totally empty, couldn´t produce any power at all and my legs have felt strangly sore and tiered for the last couple of days.

Most of this has been answered but here's the good part. In order to improve your fitness (nearly as much as you could) you will need to do hard weeks like you did, but then you should allow enough time to recover and grow stronger/more fit ("supercompensation"). So, your pattern of going hard for one week, or even two weeks if you're not too tired in the second week, may end up being fine but you'll have to allow for sufficient rest.

Since you're fairly new to this kind of training you'll probably want to go hard for maybe 2-3 days out of 7, then allow 2-4 days of mostly recovery and some less strenuous areobic efforts, then go again. As you get more fit you can extend those hard periods out to a week, then maybe 2 weeks, before allowing for some good recovery and "supercompensation".

After some kinds of relatively strenuous aerobic training efforts you can recover in just a day or so, and the hard day every other day could work, but for other types of training efforts you really need more than one day for recovery, and maybe up to 5-7 days off from that type of training. Because of these concerns the pattern of hard every other day probably isn't as useful as doing 2-3 hard days within 3-5 days followed by 1-3 days in a row of mostly recovery.

 

[Karp]

The thing is, people always say that you need one rest/revocery day after a hard ride. But I think that my body needs more right now. I have noticed that I grow strong pretty fast if only doing one or maybe two really hard rides a week, and then just relaxed rides in between.

I have always been pretty thin, so that´s not something new. About my diet, I am eating fine and that shouldn´t really be a problem, I have always found it hard to gain weight. But I still can´t really sleep

One symptom many overtrained athletes mention is that they get sick only when thinking about training, but I don´t feel that at all. I want to get back on the bike as quick as possible, and I am not sick of it at all.

Though I have noticed that a rest week or two can often make me feel stronger when coming back.

cheers

 

[ewan52]

a bit off subject but what your saying about being thin is interesting. i was a runner for some time before i took up cycling and came into the sport thin. my torso is still thin but after prolonged cycling training ive actually experienced a weight gain from the muscles in my legs increasing in bulk. i think that you may experience something similiar so you might see an increase in your weight as your cycling training progresses.

 

[Karp]

My legs have gotten a bit more slim maybe, and well, maybe a little bigger. But still, what I gain in leg size I lose in upper body size, so my weight is pretty stable.

But I can´t really imagine the weight factor to be a problem here. I have a BMI of around 20 and even if that´s not much it´s still a bit away from "unhealthy skinny".

 

[SolarEnergy]

My legs have gotten a bit more slim maybe, and well, maybe a little bigger. But still, what I gain in leg size I lose in upper body size, so my weight is pretty stable.

But I can´t really imagine the weight factor to be a problem here. I have a BMI of around 20 and even if that´s not much it´s still a bit away from "unhealthy skinny".

I think I'd agree on that too. You may rather look for sudden change to explain a sudden situation.