P38 Quality, Price, and Service?

Discussion in 'Recumbent bicycles' started by Stratrider, Apr 25, 2003.

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  1. Stratrider

    Stratrider Guest

    Different sources have offered negative comments to me about Lightning's quality, and customer
    service. Add to that a stiff price for the P38 and stiff competion. Yet Lightning has been around as
    long as any recumbent manufacturer. So what is the REAL story here? Is the P38 worth the price? What
    is the quality and reliability like?

    Jim Reilly Reading, PA
     
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  2. Chere

    Chere Guest

    My DREAMBIKE is the R84... will get me one when I hit the LOTTO. I rode with a gal riding one and
    she was obviously holding back; I was giving my GRR all I had. Some say the seat is "iffy"... from
    what I understand, you must get the proper size or it's very uncomfortable.
    --
    Chere ~ GRR Sanibel, FL / Cumberland, MD
     
  3. I've been riding about 800 miles a month on my Lightning R-84 since September of last year and love
    it. It climbs well and puts most of the wedgies riders in the area to shame. In fact, I'm told by
    some of the old timers in the Louisville Bicycle Club that I've caused them to rethink their
    negative position on recumbents, previously thought to be slow and best suited for fat old men with
    arthritis.

    That being said, it's considered a high maintenance bike. I recently had to send the frame back to
    the factory to have the headset tube rebonded to the carbon. (Darn Kentucky pot holes!) I really
    hated having to ride my old bike while waiting three weeks for the repair. Still, I consider my self
    a Lightning fan. The P-38 has essentially the same geometry as the R-84, but not being high-tech
    carbon, is more easily repaired at local bike shops--no fancy glues or heat curing required.
    However, the folks at lightning have always treated me very well. It's just a shame their facility
    is 2,600 miles away!

    If I weren't such a loyal lightning fan, I might consider the Bacchetta line of bikes. Three of my
    friends ride a Strada, a Giro and an Aero, respectively. The guy on the Strada is every bit as fast
    as I am, even though his bike weighs a few extra pounds. The main advantage to the Bacchetta line is
    that they are much more affordable than the R-84. Some would debate that whether or not that little
    extra performance I get from my carbon lightning is worth the big price differential. I don't care
    what they say, I still love it!

    Best of luck in your hunt for the the perfect recumbent. Here's a link to a video I made on the Old
    Kentucky Home Tour, last year, where I entered and won the time-trial, at least in the recumbent
    category. http://www.preble.net/okht2002/

    "stratrider" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Different sources have offered negative comments to me about Lightning's quality, and customer
    > service. Add to that a stiff price for the P38 and stiff competion. Yet Lightning has been around
    > as long as any recumbent manufacturer. So what is the REAL story here? Is the P38 worth the price?
    > What is the quality and reliability like?
    >
    > Jim Reilly Reading, PA
     
  4. In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > Different sources have offered negative comments to me about Lightning's quality, and customer
    > service. Add to that a stiff price for the P38 and stiff competion. Yet Lightning has been around
    > as long as any recumbent manufacturer. So what is the REAL story here? Is the P38 worth the price?
    > What is the quality and reliability like?

    The Lightning P-38's warts (from a happy camper):

    Quality You can just about spec a P-38 with any components that you want so that leaves just the
    frame and seat to compare for quality. My only direct comparisons are with RANS and Bacchetta. I
    would have to rank them all about equal. In LCD's favor, you can get your Lightning in any color
    (extra$) or one of several standard colors. RANS and Bacchetta limit you to one color per
    model/year. For seats, I'd have to give the edge to Bacchetta or RANS. The Lightning seat is limited
    in recline and is more 'closed' (seat/back angle). Some prefer this. I don't. However I can ride my
    Lightning as far and as long as I can the Bacchetta. One other Lightning problem that is probably
    attributed to the Ritchey Logic break levers is poor braking. I went through three different brake
    calipers before I switched out the OEM (LCD special bend) Ritchey Logic levers. Once I replaced
    those with Shimano XTR (modified by me with the special bend), my breaking problems were solved.

    Service I'd rank service in this order. Bacchetta (10), RANS(9.5), LCD (8). IMO there are few if any
    bent mfgs. that can squeeze between RANS and LCD. LCD could do better. Follow through, thoroughness
    and completeness on service orders could be better.I have always gotten very good, helpful service
    if I talked directly to Tim Brummer.

    Price I have not found much difference in performance in a P-38 with Shimano
    XT/ Ultegra components @ $3100 and a Bacchetta Giro simmilarly equipped for $1600.

    The Lightning space frame design was advanced when it first came out, but as far as I can tell not
    changed much in the intervening years. The big wheel 'stick' bikes are the current darlings of the
    performance minded bent pilots. Lightning's P-38 design is 'tired'. You will however, find the P-38s
    hard to beat on the go fast circuit.

    Am I happy with my Lightning P-38 Voyager? Yes. Would I buy another? Not unless LCD makes a
    revolutionary change in the product.

    --
    Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
    - Bellaire, TX USA -
     
  5. Don

    Don Guest

    Cletus, That is great news since I will (hopefully) be considering a Giro soon. I am waiting for my
    LBS to get a small in stock. Two are ordered and delivery is expected in May. I am a little worried
    that they will be too big for me. Despite assurances from my dealer and members of this forum, I
    think the bike may be too tall. Check out the picture in the upper left corner--

    http://www.x-eyed.com/bike1.html The woman on the Giro is definitely tippy-toed.

    I was not able to convince Lightning that the $220 surcharge for a small frame was discriminatory
    and should be eliminated. Tim would not budge one penny on the frame price which included $150/220
    (cost to dealer/MSRP) for a small frame and $40/60 for V-brakes braze-ons. So not only was I paying
    the manufacturer upcharge for a small frame, I was paying the dealer mark-up also. That put a P-38
    frame price (small) at $1980 with $590 being dealer mark up. If I had a local dealer I probably
    could have negotiated a better price. Some won't deal but many would gladly take $300-400 profit for
    merely ordering a frame rather than lose the entire sale. They could also hope for some parts sales.
    At any rate all my LBS (except the big chains) offer a 10% discount for bike club members.

    My dealings with Lightning have put me off from buying a P-38 or Phantom frame. The Phantom was my
    fall-back position if I liked it well enough after the test ride and decided not to spend the extra
    for a P-38. I do not want to patronize Lightning in any way.

    I am almost equally frustrated at Bachetta. They never answer my emails. I can not buy a
    frame/seat/stem only and build it up. I am forced to pay for parts that I do not want. I need to
    see/ride the bike first to see how many parts I can salvage. I am afraid the rims that come with it
    are too wide for 1.0 tires. That means two complete new wheels. If I have to replace rims, I will
    use better hubs. I know the crank and splined bottom bracket have to go so I can put on a short TA
    or Thorn. I think the rest of the parts would be acceptable. But the color is arguably the ugliest
    bike color I have ever seen. Maybe it will grow on me.

    Cletus D. Lee <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    >
    >
    > The Lightning P-38's warts (from a happy camper):
    >
    > Quality You can just about spec a P-38 with any components that you want so that leaves just the
    > frame and seat to compare for quality. My only direct comparisons are with RANS and Bacchetta. I
    > would have to rank them all about equal. In LCD's favor, you can get your Lightning in any color
    > (extra$) or one of several standard colors. RANS and Bacchetta limit you to one color per
    > model/year. For seats, I'd have to give the edge to Bacchetta or RANS. The Lightning seat is
    > limited in recline and is more 'closed' (seat/back angle). Some prefer this. I don't. However I
    > can ride my Lightning as far and as long as I can the Bacchetta. One other Lightning problem that
    > is probably attributed to the Ritchey Logic break levers is poor braking. I went through three
    > different brake calipers before I switched out the OEM (LCD special bend) Ritchey Logic levers.
    > Once I replaced those with Shimano XTR (modified by me with the special bend), my breaking
    > problems were solved.
    >
    > Service I'd rank service in this order. Bacchetta (10), RANS(9.5), LCD (8). IMO there are few if
    > any bent mfgs. that can squeeze between RANS and LCD. LCD could do better. Follow through,
    > thoroughness and completeness on service orders could be better.I have always gotten very good,
    > helpful service if I talked directly to Tim Brummer.
    >
    > Price I have not found much difference in performance in a P-38 with Shimano
    > XT/ Ultegra components @ $3100 and a Bacchetta Giro simmilarly equipped for $1600.
    >
    > The Lightning space frame design was advanced when it first came out, but as far as I can tell not
    > changed much in the intervening years. The big wheel 'stick' bikes are the current darlings of the
    > performance minded bent pilots. Lightning's P-38 design is 'tired'. You will however, find the
    > P-38s hard to beat on the go fast circuit.
    >
    > Am I happy with my Lightning P-38 Voyager? Yes. Would I buy another? Not unless LCD makes a
    > revolutionary change in the product.
     
  6. (Note that I've posted this response to inquiries about the P-38 at various times. Loyal P-38 owners
    insist that I'm maligning a great bike, but these were my honest impressions.)

    Jim,

    I bought a Lightning P-38 XT without having ridden one and it was the most disappointing bicycle
    I've ever owned. Note that I'm comparing it to an upgraded RANS V-Rex purchased from Angletech.

    The Lightning seat is nice, and the P-38 is a couple of pounds lighter than the V-Rex. But I've
    never seen a bicycle with more design or component problems than the P-38. For example:

    * The downturned handlebars make absolutely no sense on a bike without a body stocking.
    They're always in the way when turning sharply, especially because the bar-end controls get
    in the way too.

    * The brakes (Odyssey A-brake on the front and Shimano XT V-brake on the rear) are simply awful in
    comparison with the Avid V-brakes on my V-Rex. They're spongy feeling and difficult to keep from
    squealing. (Shimano XT V-brakes, which the P-38 uses on the rear, are notorious for squealing.
    Even Shimano's Web site says you probably won't be able to stop them from making noise.)

    * The shifter for the front derailer is friction, not indexed. The friction screw kept coming loose
    and threatening to fall out on the ground. (I probably could've fixed this with LockTite but the
    design is poor. The shifter needs a captive screw.)

    * The rear triangle on a P-38 is so "tight" (tubing is too close together) that there's minimal
    clearance for the brake shoes. When the brakes are released, the brake shoes almost immediately
    hit the frame. (This is one of those things you'd have to see.) It makes it difficult to add any
    toe-in to the brakes without them rubbing on the rim. Also, even when the brakes are fully
    released (the cable is unhooked) it's a battle to get the tire out between the brake shoes. I
    can't imagine why Lightning would build something so mediocre unless the frame design worked
    better before V-brakes and they don't want to spend the money retooling the frame.

    * I found the Lightning tilting/locking steering riser much less useful than the one from RANS.
    First, the position I wanted was in between two of the ratcheted increments. Second, when you
    loosen the Lightning steering riser, it immediately wants to flop forward into your face. In
    comparison, the one from RANS has a fixed (but adjustable) forward position and simply swings
    forward for convenience.

    * The P-38's funky handlebars require equally funky, custom-bent brake levers. The levers provided
    by Lightning lack the "power" (mechanical advantage) adjustment present on others levers used with
    V-brakes. I like the ability to tune the performance of the brakes.

    * Riding the P-38 didn't feel that much different than my V-Rex. I didn't get on the P-38 and take
    off like a jet, or anything the least bit dramatic. If it outperformed the V-Rex at anything, I
    failed to notice it.

    Given the above, I quickly realized that Lightning's vision of the perfect bicycle was considerably
    different from mine. I probably could've fixed most of my concerns by rebuilding the P-38, but I was
    thoroughly disgusted and priced it for a quick sale instead. (Actually, I was anxious to sell it
    before I gave in to my impulse to have it crushed into a paperweight.)

    A nicely upgraded V-Rex costs about $1000 less than a P-38 XT. Although I know it has its fans, I
    think the P-38 is a poor value. Having owned a P-38, I wouldn't recommend one to anybody.

    Frank Calloway
     
  7. Cletus, you "forgot" to mention the amazingly rude woman who handles the phones and who refuses to
    answer customer questions as they are " a waste of our time". I own a P-38 and love it, but honesty
    compells me to bring up the unhappy fact of this Le Quan person's unpleasent and frankly
    anti-customer attitudes. After all, she is the one who will answer the phone when the poor customer
    calls for advice or assistance.
     
  8. Tom Sherman

    Tom Sherman Guest

    Don wrote:
    > ... I am almost equally frustrated at Bachetta. They never answer my emails. I can not buy a
    > frame/seat/stem only and build it up. I am forced to pay for parts that I do not want. I need to
    > see/ride the bike first to see how many parts I can salvage. I am afraid the rims that come with
    > it are too wide for 1.0 tires. That means two complete new wheels. If I have to replace rims, I
    > will use better hubs. I know the crank and splined bottom bracket have to go so I can put on a
    > short TA or Thorn. I think the rest of the parts would be acceptable. But the color is arguably
    > the ugliest bike color I have ever seen. Maybe it will grow on me.

    Don,

    I sent several emails to a bicycle dealer [1] once and received no replies. About a day after my
    most recent email, I received a general email from the dealer to his customers apologizing for his
    email system having problems and that he had lost over a weeks worth of incoming messages. When I
    receive no reply to an email, I now always keep this possibility in mind.

    Have you ever seen a 1999-2000 RANS Tailwind? You might appreciate "Giro" green more if you have. :)
    [2] Of course, the ugliest shade of green has to be that used in many US public schools in the
    1950's and 1960's.

    [1] Sadly, now retired from the business.
    [2] The Bianchi faithful will wish to crucify me for this, but I find their "celeste verde" one of
    the least attractive shades of green.

    Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)
     
  9. Tom Sherman

    Tom Sherman Guest

    Michael Devenis wrote:
    >
    > Cletus, you "forgot" to mention the amazingly rude woman who handles the phones and who refuses to
    > answer customer questions as they are " a waste of our time". I own a P-38 and love it, but
    > honesty compells me to bring up the unhappy fact of this Le Quan person's unpleasent and frankly
    > anti-customer attitudes. After all, she is the one who will answer the phone when the poor
    > customer calls for advice or assistance.

    For what it is worth, Le Quan happens to be Tim Brummer's wife.

    Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)
     
  10. Mark Evans

    Mark Evans Guest

    comments below:

    "Frank Calloway @earthlink.net>" <flcallowayemail1<nospam> wrote in message
    news:%[email protected]...
    > (Note that I've posted this response to inquiries about the P-38 at
    various
    > times. Loyal P-38 owners insist that I'm maligning a great bike, but these were my honest
    > impressions.)
    please, we do want "honest inpressions" and not someone just making stuff up

    >
    > Jim,
    >
    > I bought a Lightning P-38 XT without having ridden one and it was the most disappointing bicycle
    > I've ever owned. Note that I'm comparing it to an upgraded RANS V-Rex purchased from Angletech..
    lesson: never buy a bike without first riding it.
    >
    > The Lightning seat is nice, and the P-38 is a couple of pounds lighter
    than
    > the V-Rex. But I've never seen a bicycle with more design or component problems than the P-38. For
    > example:
    >
    > * The downturned handlebars make absolutely no sense on a bike without a body stocking. They're
    > always in the way when turning sharply, especially because the bar-end controls get in the
    > way too.
    >
    I love the downturned handlebars, after the geting used to it phase, I find them the most
    comfortable of any of my bikes I've owned. While it is a closed cockpit, I rarely bump anything,
    where you properly fited?

    > * The brakes (Odyssey A-brake on the front and Shimano XT V-brake on the rear) are simply awful in
    > comparison with the Avid V-brakes on my V-Rex. They're spongy feeling and difficult to keep from
    > squealing. (Shimano XT V-brakes, which the P-38 uses on the rear, are notorious for squealing.
    Even
    > Shimano's Web site says you probably won't be able to stop them from
    making
    > noise.)
    >
    > * The shifter for the front derailer is friction, not indexed. The
    friction
    > screw kept coming loose and threatening to fall out on the ground. (I probably could've fixed this
    > with LockTite but the design is poor. The shifter needs a captive screw.)
    you just have the damnedist luck, don't you?

    >
    > * The rear triangle on a P-38 is so "tight" (tubing is too close together) that there's minimal
    > clearance for the brake shoes. When the brakes are released, the brake shoes almost immediately
    > hit the frame. (This is one
    of
    > those things you'd have to see.) It makes it difficult to add any toe-in
    to
    > the brakes without them rubbing on the rim. Also, even when the brakes are fully released (the
    > cable is unhooked) it's a battle to get the tire out between the brake shoes. I can't imagine why
    > Lightning would build
    something
    > so mediocre unless the frame design worked better before V-brakes and they don't want to spend the
    > money retooling the frame.
    >
    > * I found the Lightning tilting/locking steering riser much less useful
    than
    > the one from RANS. First, the position I wanted was in between two of the ratcheted increments.
    > Second, when you loosen the Lightning steering
    riser,
    > it immediately wants to flop forward into your face. In comparison, the
    one
    > from RANS has a fixed (but adjustable) forward position and simply swings forward for convenience.
    the P-38 works best without the tilting riser as originaly desined
    >
    > * The P-38's funky handlebars require equally funky, custom-bent brake levers. The levers provided
    > by Lightning lack the "power" (mechanical advantage) adjustment present on others levers used
    > with V-brakes. I like the ability to tune the performance of the brakes.
    >
    I can't argue, the P-38 must use the custom-bent brake levers, BUT they have always worked great for
    me, and again, I find this setup vary comfortable

    > * Riding the P-38 didn't feel that much different than my V-Rex. I didn't get on the P-38 and take
    > off like a jet, or anything the least bit
    dramatic.
    > If it outperformed the V-Rex at anything, I failed to notice it.

    ok, the V-Rex I had was prety stock, and my P-83 is maxed out, so I can't compair with the same
    componet set, but I find a WORLD of diferance in the performanc of the two.
    >
    > Given the above, I quickly realized that Lightning's vision of the perfect bicycle was
    > considerably different from mine. I probably could've fixed
    most
    > of my concerns by rebuilding the P-38, but I was thoroughly disgusted and priced it for a quick
    > sale instead. (Actually, I was anxious to sell it before I gave in to my impulse to have it
    > crushed into a paperweight.)
    >
    > A nicely upgraded V-Rex costs about $1000 less than a P-38 XT. Although I know it has its fans, I
    > think the P-38 is a poor value. Having owned a
    P-38,
    > I wouldn't recommend one to anybody.
    >
    > Frank Calloway
    >
    two vary diferant experinces ride one for your self and decide, MY P-38 is NOT for sale!!

    Mark
     
  11. Pj

    Pj Guest

    > I am almost equally frustrated at Bachetta. They never answer my emails. I can not buy a
    > frame/seat/stem only and build it up. I am forced to pay for parts that I do not want. I need to
    > see/ride the bike first to see how many parts I can salvage. I am afraid the rims that come with
    > it are too wide for 1.0 tires. That means two complete new wheels. If I have to replace rims, I
    > will use better hubs. I know the crank and splined bottom bracket have to go so I can put on a
    > short TA or Thorn. I think the rest of the parts would be acceptable. But the color is arguably
    > the ugliest bike color I have ever seen. Maybe it will grow on me.

    Your experience with the Bacchetta staff is certainly different than mine. I have found them to be
    very good about returning emails, usually within 24 hours which is pretty good considering this must
    be one of their busier time periods. I have found their staff to be anxious to share their advice
    from everone including Mark C, John, Rich and Mike.

    Your experience with Lightning seems to be consistent with what others have shared on-line, although
    I haven't ever purchased one of their bikes.....hmmm maybe there is a connection.

    As to purchasing other parts, selling new or slightly used parts on the internet is actually pretty
    easy and I hate to sell anything.

    Pat McShane
     
  12. > I love the downturned handlebars, after the geting used to it phase, I
    find
    > them the most comfortable of any of my bikes I've owned. While it is a closed cockpit, I rarely
    > bump anything, where you properly fited?

    I don't see how fitting had anything to do with it. When making *sharp* turns, such as a U-turn on a
    two-lane road, I had to swing my knee out and around the handlebar to keep from hitting it. I don't
    think it's physically possible to do otherwise. I guess I must make more U-turns than average. :)

    Frank Calloway
     
  13. Don

    Don Guest

    Tom, Is Le Quan the woman in the photographs in the bike literature?

    Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Michael Devenis wrote:
    > >
    > > Cletus, you "forgot" to mention the amazingly rude woman who handles the phones and who refuses
    > > to answer customer questions as they are " a waste of our time". I own a P-38 and love it, but
    > > honesty compells me to bring up the unhappy fact of this Le Quan person's unpleasent and frankly
    > > anti-customer attitudes. After all, she is the one who will answer the phone when the poor
    > > customer calls for advice or assistance.
    >
    > For what it is worth, Le Quan happens to be Tim Brummer's wife.
    >
    > Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)
     
  14. Don

    Don Guest

    Tom, Yes I always consider the odd email got lost in the melee but I had sent three over a several
    month period that were never answered. I sent them from my account also (not via Outlook Express) so
    I know they worked. Rich Pinto also privately emailed me with the post above. I appreciate that very
    much and will take full advantage of
    it. He will probably sorry he gave me his direct address :)

    I agree the the Celeste verde is one of the least attractive shades of green. It is also one of the
    least attractive shades of blue. It takes awards in two categories. My other unfavorite is safety
    orange. I think I can tolerate the Celeste better because it is less intense. The BP Green is
    intense and thus results in intense reaction. If my LBS ever gets one in (small) I will go for a
    test ride. That will be my first close-up of the bike. I will take both my blue and orange riding
    glasses (orange should be funky) to see if that helps. Since it will probably be after my vacation,
    I will steal a barf bag from the airplane and bring it along also. Sorry Giro owners, I just can not
    help myself :) Maybe the intensity will grow on me.

    I am anxious for a test ride. Looking forward to a 20" front wheel. Bacchetta owners have been very
    fond of their bikes so that is very encouraging.

    Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Don,
    >
    > I sent several emails to a bicycle dealer [1] once and received no replies. About a day after my
    > most recent email, I received a general email from the dealer to his customers apologizing for his
    > email system having problems and that he had lost over a weeks worth of incoming messages. When I
    > receive no reply to an email, I now always keep this possibility in mind.
    >
    > Have you ever seen a 1999-2000 RANS Tailwind? You might appreciate "Giro" green more if you have.
    > :) [2] Of course, the ugliest shade of green has to be that used in many US public schools in the
    > 1950's and 1960's.
    >
    > [1] Sadly, now retired from the business.
    > [2] The Bianchi faithful will wish to crucify me for this, but I find their "celeste verde" one of
    > the least attractive shades of green.
    >
    > Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)
     
  15. On 26 Apr 2003 19:35:41 -0700, [email protected] (Don) wrote:

    >they worked. Rich Pinto also privately emailed me with the post above. I appreciate that very much
    >and will take full advantage of
    >it. He will probably sorry he gave me his direct address :)

    His e-mail address is listed on the Bacchetta web site. Every time I e-mailed him, he's replied
    promptly and personally with a detailed answer.

    Which address did you send your previous messages to? Maybe you could send Rich some detailed
    information about your previous mail so they can look into it.

    As for Lightning, one 'bent shop owner said Lightning isn't very good at dealing with individual
    customers and that I should go through the shop I purchased from to have any problems fixed. So I
    guess the moral is to buy from a reputable shop. I bought my Stealth from Hostel Shoppe and when I
    had a problem, they were able to get a replacement part from Lightning with minimal time and hassle
    (on my part).

    Ken Ken Kobayashi [email protected] http://solarwww.mtk.nao.ac.jp/kobayashi/personal/
     
  16. Freewheeling

    Freewheeling Guest

    Rich:

    Are you now selling framesets?

    --
    --Scott [email protected] Cut the "tail" to send email.

    "RCPINTO" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > >I am almost equally frustrated at Bachetta. They never answer my emails. I can not buy a
    > >frame/seat/stem only and build it up. I am forced to pay for parts that I do not want. I need to
    > >see/ride the bike first to see how many parts I can salvage.
    >
    > Don
    >
    > Can you tell me when these emails were sent? Email me at [email protected] I checked
    > my old mail going back about 21 days
    and
    > could'nt find anything. We always try to answer all our emails promptly
    when
    > possible, but during the busy season errors are possible.
    >
    > If you give me the combination of parts you are looking for, I'll see
    if
    > they are sold separately. Sometimes they are not. Email me and I'll try
    to
    > help.
    >
    > Thanks
    > Rich Pinto
    > Bacchetta Bicycles
     
  17. Tom Sherman

    Tom Sherman Guest

    Don wrote:
    >
    > Tom, Is Le Quan the woman in the photographs in the bike literature?

    She is the person who appears to be balancing the P-38 with her left foot in this picture.
    <http://www.lightningbikes.com/sp38leq.jpg>

    Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)
     
  18. In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > Cletus, you "forgot" to mention the amazingly rude woman who handles the phones and who refuses to
    > answer customer questions as they are " a waste of our time". I own a P-38 and love it, but
    > honesty compells me to bring up the unhappy fact of this Le Quan person's unpleasent and frankly
    > anti-customer attitudes. After all, she is the one who will answer the phone when the poor
    > customer calls for advice or assistance.
    >

    I have never found LeQuan to be rude. I don't think English is LeQuan's first language and you may
    be confusing an abruptness and directness that comes from that fact as being rude.

    I say, cut her some slack. How well could you communicate if you were dumped into a foreign country?
    I've been there. it is not easy.

    No Bic?

    FWIW, LCD has (at least in the past) monitored this NG. So your comments may be noted. As a small
    family run business, LCD has to rely on customer service and satisfaction to stay in the game.

    --
    Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
    - Bellaire, TX USA -
     
  19. Freewheeling

    Freewheeling Guest

    Rich:

    How are you? I just have a big bump on the side of my foot, but it's not painful. Just concerned it
    might get sore on a long bike ride, but I haven't tried it out yet. See you around.

    --
    --Scott [email protected] Cut the "tail" to send email.

    "RCPINTO" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > >Rich:
    > >
    > >Are you now selling framesets?
    > >
    > >--
    > >--Scott [email protected] Cut the "tail" to send email.
    > >
    >
    > Hi Scott
    >
    > How are you? Sorry to hear about your injury, get better, its spring!
    >
    > Yes we are, but the best person to speak to about that is Mike in
    sales. He
    > will be able to tell you the current availability of framesets.
    >
    >
    > Thanks, Rich
     
  20. Freewheeling

    Freewheeling Guest

    Cletus:

    I've been hearing about this woman for as long as I've been using ARBR. It's not as though they
    don't have a responsibility to place someone reasonable, with decent people skills, in customer
    relations. And it's not as though there aren't other good bikes around. Once you've *bought* the
    bike, you pretty much *have* to put up with her. But since you don't really *have* to put your tit
    in that ringer...

    --
    --Scott [email protected] Cut the "tail" to send email.

    "Cletus D. Lee" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > > Cletus, you "forgot" to mention the amazingly rude woman who handles the phones and who refuses
    > > to answer customer questions as they are " a waste of our time". I own a P-38 and love it, but
    > > honesty compells me to bring up the unhappy fact of this Le Quan person's unpleasent and frankly
    > > anti-customer attitudes. After all, she is the one who will answer the phone when the poor
    > > customer calls for advice or assistance.
    > >
    >
    > I have never found LeQuan to be rude. I don't think English is LeQuan's first language and you may
    > be confusing an abruptness and directness that comes from that fact as being rude.
    >
    > I say, cut her some slack. How well could you communicate if you were dumped into a foreign
    > country? I've been there. it is not easy.
    >
    > No Bic?
    >
    > FWIW, LCD has (at least in the past) monitored this NG. So your comments may be noted. As a small
    > family run business, LCD has to rely on customer service and satisfaction to stay in the game.
    >
    >
    > --
    > Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
    > - Bellaire, TX USA -
     
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