paint for route marking

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Dave Cook, Mar 8, 2003.

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  1. Dave Cook

    Dave Cook Guest

    Hey bicyclists,

    I,m routing a 65 mi. ride north of Pittsburgh, PA for Shriners' Childrens hospitals and I need paint
    for pavement marking that will not last forever. Is there something specific for this type of
    application? Anybody have any experience with this?
    --
    A bad day of bicycling, is better than a good day at anything else.
     
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  2. Skip

    Skip Guest

    Here in the Silicon Valley, using paint has sometimes gotten route-markers a very bad name with the
    authorities.

    Use what public-works departments do -- "spray chalk". It comes in a can which looks everything like
    a spray-paint can, but is powdered chalk in some sort of a degradable binder.

    Looks great for a couple of weeks and then decomposes. Exactly what you want.

    I've not been involved in directly procuring the stuff (only using it), but I'm sure that I can find
    out how we get it.

    But the answer of where to buy "spray chalk" may be a local one. I'll leave solving this to you, but
    if you have problems, post here again and I'll ask the person who has done this for our club in the
    past. If you have contacts in public-works and/or local utilities, they would most likely know.

    - Skip (unfortunately, SPAM-protection is pretty high. Return and From addressed don't work. Post
    and I'll read.)

    "Dave Cook" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Hey bicyclists,
    >
    > I,m routing a 65 mi. ride north of Pittsburgh, PA for Shriners' Childrens hospitals and I need
    > paint for pavement marking that will not last
    forever.
    > Is there something specific for this type of application? Anybody have
    any
    > experience with this?
    > --
    > A bad day of bicycling, is better than a good day at anything else.
     
  3. David Newman

    David Newman Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, "Skip" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Here in the Silicon Valley, using paint has sometimes gotten route-markers a very bad name with
    > the authorities.

    Skip, can you explain this a little more? Who are the authorities that you refer to, and why are
    they upset? I have given some thought to this in the past, and it seems to me that unless the
    route-painters were using *lots* of paint, the authorities shouldn't have anything to be upset
    about. A few tens of square inches of paint near every intersection on a long route shouldn't affect
    the lifetime of the pavement, and shouldn't confuse any motorists since the markings are usually too
    small for the motorists to see. Can you educate me on this matter?

    Thanks,

    >>Dave
     
  4. Mike Kruger

    Mike Kruger Guest

    "Dave Cook" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Hey bicyclists,
    >
    > I,m routing a 65 mi. ride north of Pittsburgh, PA for Shriners' Childrens hospitals and I need
    > paint for pavement marking that will not last
    forever.
    > Is there something specific for this type of application? Anybody have
    any
    > experience with this?
    > --
    For a ride last September, we used Rustoleum Industrial Choice Inverted Marking Paint, Pro-Mark
    Water Based. (UPC code 0-20066-18318-9 for Fluorescent Green).

    By coincidence, I rode today with the ride coordinator along part of the route, and he pointed out
    that all the markings are gone.

    The "inverted" is nice -- the can is designed to paint while being held upside down.
     
  5. Dave Cook wrote:
    >
    > Hey bicyclists,
    >
    > I,m routing a 65 mi. ride north of Pittsburgh, PA for Shriners' Childrens hospitals and I need
    > paint for pavement marking that will not last forever. Is there something specific for this type
    > of application? Anybody have any experience with this?
    > --

    Try www.grainger.com and look for pavement marking paint used by utilites.

    Barry
     
  6. Tom Kunich

    Tom Kunich Guest

    To all concerned:

    California state law prohibits ANYONE from painting anything but legal traffic departments from
    painting anything but legal highway markings described in the highway staandards.

    Most states have similar laws. In California you can be prosecuted and fined and jailed for painting
    on the street.

    However, as Skip mentioned, Spray Chalk is a very good replacement. Though he is wrong about it
    degrading since I can still find marks I put down 5 years ago, though they are pretty damned faint.
    In any case they most wash off over a winter.

    I forget the name of the company that makes this spray chalk but I remember that they are situated
    in Reno Nevada. You can obtain the stuff from most professional paint houses but sometimes you have
    to give them a week or two to order it. You can't store this stuff for more than a couple of months
    because it will harden in the tube. So only buy the amount you are going to need. For a Century
    course with lots of marks you'll need about a half dozen cans.

    It comes in white, yellow and red but it also comes in some dayglow colors as well which work
    really well.

    "David Newman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:D[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>, "Skip"
    <[email protected]>
    > wrote:
    >
    > > Here in the Silicon Valley, using paint has sometimes gotten
    route-markers a
    > > very bad name with the authorities.
    >
    > Skip, can you explain this a little more? Who are the authorities
    that
    > you refer to, and why are they upset? I have given some thought to
    this
    > in the past, and it seems to me that unless the route-painters were using *lots* of paint, the
    > authorities shouldn't have anything to be upset about. A few tens of square inches of paint near
    > every intersection on a long route shouldn't affect the lifetime of the pavement, and shouldn't
    > confuse any motorists since the markings are usually too small for the motorists to see. Can you
    > educate me on
    this
    > matter?
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > >>Dave
     
  7. Cycling Joe

    Cycling Joe Guest

    Cheap cardboard signs are another option. I've seen many people miss the markings on road surfaces
    if they are done to small. If you have signs on wooden sticks or poles, they are very hard to miss.

    If you do decide to mark the road, make a template so you can just spray over this on the road. It's
    so much faster, and always looks better.

    Dave Cook wrote:

    >Hey bicyclists,
    >
    >I,m routing a 65 mi. ride north of Pittsburgh, PA for Shriners' Childrens hospitals and I need
    >paint for pavement marking that will not last forever. Is there something specific for this type of
    >application? Anybody have any experience with this?
    >--
    >A bad day of bicycling, is better than a good day at anything else.
    >
    >
     
  8. Cycling Joe

    Cycling Joe Guest

    Cheap cardboard signs are another option. I've seen many people miss the markings on road surfaces
    if they are done to small. If you have signs on wooden sticks or poles, they are very hard to miss.

    If you do decide to mark the road, make a template so you can just spray over this on the road. It's
    so much faster, and always looks better.

    Dave Cook wrote:

    >Hey bicyclists,
    >
    >I,m routing a 65 mi. ride north of Pittsburgh, PA for Shriners' Childrens hospitals and I need
    >paint for pavement marking that will not last forever. Is there something specific for this type of
    >application? Anybody have any experience with this?
    >--
    >A bad day of bicycling, is better than a good day at anything else.
    >
    >
     
  9. Cycling Joe

    Cycling Joe Guest

    Cheap cardboard signs are another option. I've seen many people miss the markings on road surfaces
    if they are done to small. If you have signs on wooden sticks or poles, they are very hard to miss.

    If you do decide to mark the road, make a template so you can just spray over this on the road. It's
    so much faster, and always looks better.

    Dave Cook wrote:

    >Hey bicyclists,
    >
    >I,m routing a 65 mi. ride north of Pittsburgh, PA for Shriners' Childrens hospitals and I need
    >paint for pavement marking that will not last forever. Is there something specific for this type of
    >application? Anybody have any experience with this?
    >--
    >A bad day of bicycling, is better than a good day at anything else.
    >
    >
     
  10. On Sat, 08 Mar 2003 14:33:42 -0500, David Newman wrote:

    > In article <[email protected]>, "Skip" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> Here in the Silicon Valley, using paint has sometimes gotten route-markers a very bad name with
    >> the authorities.
    >
    > Skip, can you explain this a little more? Who are the authorities that you refer to, and why
    > are they upset? I have given some thought to this in the past, and it seems to me that unless
    > the route-painters were using *lots* of paint, the authorities shouldn't have anything to be
    > upset about.

    This depends on the authorities. We are having serious trouble with one state park that our century
    goes through. Even small arrows at turns give these park officials apoplexy. We almost lost the use
    of the park last year by painting turns in areas that were not even identified as parkland, though
    they claim in their maps that it was part of the park.

    This can cause serious trouble with some local officials. We are also seeking a solution. Signs are
    a RPITA and not consistent with the rest of the markings.

    > A few tens of square inches of paint near every intersection on a long route shouldn't affect the
    >lifetime of the pavement, and shouldn't confuse any motorists since the markings are usually too
    >small for the motorists to see. Can you educate me on this matter?

    Such markings are technically illegal, and really get the goat of certain local officials. This is a
    real concern.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | Some people used to claim that, if enough monkeys sat in front _`\(,_ | of enough
    typewriters and typed long enough, eventually one of (_)/ (_) | them would reproduce the
    collected works of Shakespeare. The internet has proven this not to be the case.
     
  11. On Sat, 08 Mar 2003 17:45:51 -0500, Tom Kunich wrote:

    > To all concerned:
    >
    > California state law prohibits ANYONE from painting anything but legal traffic departments from
    > painting anything but legal highway markings described in the highway staandards.
    >
    > Most states have similar laws. In California you can be prosecuted and fined and jailed for
    > painting on the street.

    It is similar in Pennsylvania
    >
    > However, as Skip mentioned, Spray Chalk is a very good replacement. Though he is wrong about it
    > degrading since I can still find marks I put down 5 years ago, though they are pretty damned
    > faint. In any case they most wash off over a winter.

    This would be totally inadequate for our local officials. We need something that will be gone in a
    week, or at the least from the next rain.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | You will say Christ saith this and the apostles say this; but _`\(,_ | what canst thou say?
    -- George Fox. (_)/ (_) |
     
  12. On Sat, 08 Mar 2003 17:24:30 -0500, B a r r y B u r k e J r . wrote:

    >
    > Try www.grainger.com and look for pavement marking paint used by utilites.

    I have been told that even utilities' marking of roads is illegal. And whatever they use around here
    is fairly permanent.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | Enron's slogan: Respect, Communication, Integrity, and _`\(,_ | Excellence. (_)/ (_) |
     
  13. Gregr

    Gregr Guest

    On Sat, 8 Mar 2003 11:36:00 -0500, "Dave Cook" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Hey bicyclists,
    >
    >I,m routing a 65 mi. ride north of Pittsburgh, PA for Shriners' Childrens hospitals and I need
    >paint for pavement marking that will not last forever. Is there something specific for this type of
    >application? Anybody have any experience with this?

    for a single day event, use regular baking flour. its cheep, biodegradeable, and gone fast.

    G
     
  14. Edward Dike

    Edward Dike Guest

    "Dave Cook" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    | Hey bicyclists,
    |
    | I,m routing a 65 mi. ride north of Pittsburgh, PA for Shriners' Childrens hospitals and I need
    | paint for pavement marking that will not last
    forever.
    | Is there something specific for this type of application? Anybody have
    any
    | experience with this?
    | --
    | A bad day of bicycling, is better than a good day at anything else.
    |
    Kids driveway chalk crayons, perhaps ED3
     
  15. Skip

    Skip Guest

    Tom's comments are right-on the money. I really don't have much more to add.

    It if really, positively, has to be gone in a week, my only suggestion is the old idea of nailing
    paper-plates with arrows drawn on them to fenceposts and then taking them down later.

    As for conflicts with the authorities -- it doesn't matter how many (few) square-inches you are
    painting. I've found that it helps if you can show them that your are using chalk.

    - Skip

    "David L. Johnson >" <David L. Johnson <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Sat, 08 Mar 2003 17:45:51 -0500, Tom Kunich wrote:
    >
    > > To all concerned:
    > >
    > > California state law prohibits ANYONE from painting anything but legal traffic departments from
    > > painting anything but legal highway markings described in the highway staandards.
    > >
    > > Most states have similar laws. In California you can be prosecuted and fined and jailed for
    > > painting on the street.
    >
    > It is similar in Pennsylvania
    > >
    > > However, as Skip mentioned, Spray Chalk is a very good replacement. Though he is wrong about it
    > > degrading since I can still find marks I put down 5 years ago, though they are pretty damned
    > > faint. In any case they most wash off over a winter.
    >
    > This would be totally inadequate for our local officials. We need something that will be gone in a
    > week, or at the least from the next rain.
    >
    > --
    >
    > David L. Johnson
    >
    > __o | You will say Christ saith this and the apostles say this; but _`\(,_ | what canst thou
    > say? -- George Fox. (_)/ (_) |
     
  16. The spray chalk works very well, although the colors aren't as vibrant as paint. If you have a
    particular area where the authorities are picky you could allways offer to paint over with black
    after the ride. After much experimentation I have found that the best material for stencils in
    this application are the thin plastic signs (such as "for sale") that are sold at Home Depot and
    other home centers. They cut easily with an exacto knife and you can get most of a day out of one
    before the propellant and paint build up into too thick a layer , or they deform the plastic.
    Arrows about 12" long work best, one 40 yards or so before the turn, one at the turn and a
    confirming arrow after.

    A net search for spray chalk or traffic paint will get you sources although Home Depot usually has
    it, or a Highway safety or construction supply store. Here is an example-
    http://www.danryderfielddrills.com/!FIELD_M.HTM

    My holy grail is finding somewhere I can get temporary lane marking tape (the stuff for temp lines
    during construction) cut into arrow shapes. It would be faster, less messy and easily removable.
    Anyone find it yet?

    Len
     
  17. Mark Jones

    Mark Jones Guest

    "Tom Kunich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I forget the name of the company that makes this spray chalk but I remember that they are situated
    > in Reno Nevada. You can obtain the stuff from most professional paint houses but sometimes you
    > have to give them a week or two to order it. You can't store this stuff for more than a couple of
    > months because it will harden in the tube. So only buy the amount you are going to need. For a
    > Century course with lots of marks you'll need about a half dozen cans.
    Run a search for Aervoe spray chalk. You will find quite a few companies selling it on-line. It is
    sold by a lot of survey equipment and supply companies.
     
  18. Tom Kunich

    Tom Kunich Guest

    One year I went around after the century and used black spray paint to paint out the chalk marks.
    That worked very well but it also doubles the marking committees work load.

    "David L. Johnson >" <David L. Johnson <[email protected]ehigh.edu> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Sat, 08 Mar 2003 17:24:30 -0500, B a r r y B u r k e J r . wrote:
    >
    > >
    > > Try www.grainger.com and look for pavement marking paint used by utilites.
    >
    > I have been told that even utilities' marking of roads is illegal.
    And
    > whatever they use around here is fairly permanent.
    >
    > --
    >
    > David L. Johnson
    >
    > __o | Enron's slogan: Respect, Communication, Integrity, and _`\(,_ | Excellence. (_)/ (_) |
     
  19. Tom Kunich

    Tom Kunich Guest

    Unless the law specifically says you can't chalk the roads the local officials can't have much to
    say about it. We went through this before and the highway department told us that if the cops had
    anything to say about it just show them that it isn't paint and they'd go away.

    "Skip" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Tom's comments are right-on the money. I really don't have much
    more to
    > add.
    >
    > It if really, positively, has to be gone in a week, my only
    suggestion is
    > the old idea of nailing paper-plates with arrows drawn on them to
    fenceposts
    > and then taking them down later.
    >
    > As for conflicts with the authorities -- it doesn't matter how many
    (few)
    > square-inches you are painting. I've found that it helps if you can
    show
    > them that your are using chalk.
    >
    > - Skip
    >
    >
    > "David L. Johnson >" <David L. Johnson <[email protected]>
    wrote in
    > message news:[email protected]...
    > > On Sat, 08 Mar 2003 17:45:51 -0500, Tom Kunich wrote:
    > >
    > > > To all concerned:
    > > >
    > > > California state law prohibits ANYONE from painting anything but
    legal
    > > > traffic departments from painting anything but legal highway
    markings
    > > > described in the highway staandards.
    > > >
    > > > Most states have similar laws. In California you can be
    prosecuted and
    > > > fined and jailed for painting on the street.
    > >
    > > It is similar in Pennsylvania
    > > >
    > > > However, as Skip mentioned, Spray Chalk is a very good
    replacement.
    > > > Though he is wrong about it degrading since I can still find
    marks I put
    > > > down 5 years ago, though they are pretty damned faint. In any
    case they
    > > > most wash off over a winter.
    > >
    > > This would be totally inadequate for our local officials. We need something that will be gone in
    > > a week, or at the least from the
    next
    > > rain.
    > >
    > > --
    > >
    > > David L. Johnson
    > >
    > > __o | You will say Christ saith this and the apostles say
    this; but
    > > _`\(,_ | what canst thou say? -- George Fox. (_)/ (_) |
     
  20. Gordon Dewis

    Gordon Dewis Guest

    "David L. Johnson >" <David L. Johnson <[email protected]lehigh.edu> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Sat, 08 Mar 2003 17:45:51 -0500, Tom Kunich wrote:
    > > However, as Skip mentioned, Spray Chalk is a very good replacement. Though he is wrong about it
    > > degrading since I can still find marks I put down 5 years ago, though they are pretty damned
    > > faint. In any case they most wash off over a winter.
    >
    > This would be totally inadequate for our local officials. We need something that will be gone in a
    > week, or at the least from the next rain.

    According to one product description found at http://www.rainbowracing.com, spray chalk can be
    cleaned up with water pressure or a broom and detergent. They caution that the stuff should be used
    in well-trafficked areas. What about using the spray chalk and then having a water truck wash the
    markings off afterwards? If you have a buy-in from the local officials, they might even supply the
    water truck.

    How many people are likely to participate?

    --G
     
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