Paint stripping

[[email protected]]

Hi All,

My 80's Benotto track bike frame arrived in Santa's sleigh. It had
lived a life in a basement for many years with the frame wrapped in
electrical tape (80's theft deterrent) so it has very nice paint, but
unfortunelty a fair amount of flaking paint and surfce rust around the
BB. I am sort of restoring this bike (as opposed to just bodging it
together) so I'd like to repaint the whole thing rather than just do
some local touch-up.

So what is the preferred method for preparing a brazed steel frame for
repainting? I have a buddy who owns a car painting place who will paint
it for me, so the painting itself isn't a problem, just the prep which
I have to do. I'd like it down to bare metal so details like the text
on the Campagnolo dropouts, etc shows, instead of just painting on top
of the old paint. Are chemical strippers to be avoided? What should I
do?

Thanks!

Joseph

 

Use a good citrus paste type stripper and you should be good to go.
Remember that it needs to stay wet to work . I used it 1 time and let it dry
it was as hard as paint to get off. .
I coated the frame then put a big plastic bag over it let it sit a while and
the stuff bubbled the paint right off.
Kind of messy but works use a small nail or something like it to clean out
the lettering .Clean the frame after with thinner to get rid of any leftover
stripers and clean really well ?
Good luck
Then take it to the painter.

--
J/O TrailBlazer At Large!!

 

[Hank Wirtz]

[email protected] wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> My 80's Benotto track bike frame arrived in Santa's sleigh. It had
> lived a life in a basement for many years with the frame wrapped in
> electrical tape (80's theft deterrent) so it has very nice paint, but
> unfortunelty a fair amount of flaking paint and surfce rust around the
> BB. I am sort of restoring this bike (as opposed to just bodging it
> together) so I'd like to repaint the whole thing rather than just do
> some local touch-up.
>
> So what is the preferred method for preparing a brazed steel frame for
> repainting? I have a buddy who owns a car painting place who will paint
> it for me, so the painting itself isn't a problem, just the prep which
> I have to do. I'd like it down to bare metal so details like the text
> on the Campagnolo dropouts, etc shows, instead of just painting on top
> of the old paint. Are chemical strippers to be avoided? What should I
> do?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Joseph

I used a citrus stripper from Home Depot for my Peugeot. After I got
the main parts off with a plastic scraper and scrubber pad, I cleaned
out the lug edges and other nooks with a dremel wire wheel at its
lowest speed. I used rubbing alcohol on paper towels to clean off the
residue.

The place I had it painted at normally strip the frames themselves with
a heat gun, but they wouldn't do my frame because the heat would damage
the chrome on my stays and fork blades, and they don't want to deal
with the EPA rules for chemical strippers.

I got (I think) $50 off for stripping it myself.

 

[A Muzi]

Here's what you asked:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/paint_repair.html

If it were mine I'd rather have original paint with touchups blended in.
Resprays always look resprayed. Nothing wrong with either choice, just a
different aesthetic.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
[email protected] wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> My 80's Benotto track bike frame arrived in Santa's sleigh. It had
> lived a life in a basement for many years with the frame wrapped in
> electrical tape (80's theft deterrent) so it has very nice paint, but
> unfortunelty a fair amount of flaking paint and surfce rust around the
> BB. I am sort of restoring this bike (as opposed to just bodging it
> together) so I'd like to repaint the whole thing rather than just do
> some local touch-up.
>
> So what is the preferred method for preparing a brazed steel frame for
> repainting? I have a buddy who owns a car painting place who will paint
> it for me, so the painting itself isn't a problem, just the prep which
> I have to do. I'd like it down to bare metal so details like the text
> on the Campagnolo dropouts, etc shows, instead of just painting on top
> of the old paint. Are chemical strippers to be avoided? What should I
> do?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Joseph
>

 

[[email protected]]

A Muzi wrote:
> Here's what you asked:
> http://www.yellowjersey.org/paint_repair.html
>
> If it were mine I'd rather have original paint with touchups blended in.
> Resprays always look resprayed. Nothing wrong with either choice, just a
> different aesthetic.

Here's a pic of the worst part:

http://arbitrary.org/bb-pic.jpg

The white is a warm metallic that would be hard to blend. The head tube
is red, and the top and down tubes fade from red to white. The fade
used to live under some cheesy Benotto stickers that are long gone. I
got some nice NOS earlier Benotto decals on eBay, so I was figuring
just plain metallic white the whole way with the older style decals.
That would look pretty clean and period I think. Every part on the bike
is NOS, or perfect, so there is no patina to match.

Joseph


> Andrew Muzi
> www.yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> [email protected] wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > My 80's Benotto track bike frame arrived in Santa's sleigh. It had
> > lived a life in a basement for many years with the frame wrapped in
> > electrical tape (80's theft deterrent) so it has very nice paint, but
> > unfortunelty a fair amount of flaking paint and surfce rust around the
> > BB. I am sort of restoring this bike (as opposed to just bodging it
> > together) so I'd like to repaint the whole thing rather than just do
> > some local touch-up.
> >
> > So what is the preferred method for preparing a brazed steel frame for
> > repainting? I have a buddy who owns a car painting place who will paint
> > it for me, so the painting itself isn't a problem, just the prep which
> > I have to do. I'd like it down to bare metal so details like the text
> > on the Campagnolo dropouts, etc shows, instead of just painting on top
> > of the old paint. Are chemical strippers to be avoided? What should I
> > do?
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Joseph
> >

 

[jim beam]

[email protected] wrote:
> A Muzi wrote:
>> Here's what you asked:
>> http://www.yellowjersey.org/paint_repair.html
>>
>> If it were mine I'd rather have original paint with touchups blended in.
>> Resprays always look resprayed. Nothing wrong with either choice, just a
>> different aesthetic.
>
> Here's a pic of the worst part:
>
> http://arbitrary.org/bb-pic.jpg

that's fugly. you need to strip that puppy down and wire brush the heck
out of it to get rid of the external rust. clean new brush, no grease.
no abrasives. internal, remove what you can, then use marine grease
to keep it at bay.

looks like a nice frame though!

>
> The white is a warm metallic that would be hard to blend. The head tube
> is red, and the top and down tubes fade from red to white. The fade
> used to live under some cheesy Benotto stickers that are long gone. I
> got some nice NOS earlier Benotto decals on eBay, so I was figuring
> just plain metallic white the whole way with the older style decals.
> That would look pretty clean and period I think. Every part on the bike
> is NOS, or perfect, so there is no patina to match.
>
> Joseph
>
>
>> Andrew Muzi
>> www.yellowjersey.org
>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> My 80's Benotto track bike frame arrived in Santa's sleigh. It had
>>> lived a life in a basement for many years with the frame wrapped in
>>> electrical tape (80's theft deterrent) so it has very nice paint, but
>>> unfortunelty a fair amount of flaking paint and surfce rust around the
>>> BB. I am sort of restoring this bike (as opposed to just bodging it
>>> together) so I'd like to repaint the whole thing rather than just do
>>> some local touch-up.
>>>
>>> So what is the preferred method for preparing a brazed steel frame for
>>> repainting? I have a buddy who owns a car painting place who will paint
>>> it for me, so the painting itself isn't a problem, just the prep which
>>> I have to do. I'd like it down to bare metal so details like the text
>>> on the Campagnolo dropouts, etc shows, instead of just painting on top
>>> of the old paint. Are chemical strippers to be avoided? What should I
>>> do?
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> Joseph
>>>
>

 

[Grolch]

The absolute best way to strip the frame without doing any damage to the
brazing, threads or the envoronment is to have it bead blasted (plastic
beads) or soda blasted (bicarbonate of Soda) A look in the Yellow Pages
should show "powder coating" facilities in your area. They typically blast
items of complex configuration. I say this with a vast amount of experience
and knowledge in this field. I am a NACE (National Association of Corrosion
Engineers) Certified Coating Specialist... And a life long cyclist

Best of Luck.

BTW, Powder Coating is probably the most durable coating method while being
extremely environmentally Friendly.

Grolsch



<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi All,
>
> My 80's Benotto track bike frame arrived in Santa's sleigh. It had
> lived a life in a basement for many years with the frame wrapped in
> electrical tape (80's theft deterrent) so it has very nice paint, but
> unfortunelty a fair amount of flaking paint and surfce rust around the
> BB. I am sort of restoring this bike (as opposed to just bodging it
> together) so I'd like to repaint the whole thing rather than just do
> some local touch-up.
>
> So what is the preferred method for preparing a brazed steel frame for
> repainting? I have a buddy who owns a car painting place who will paint
> it for me, so the painting itself isn't a problem, just the prep which
> I have to do. I'd like it down to bare metal so details like the text
> on the Campagnolo dropouts, etc shows, instead of just painting on top
> of the old paint. Are chemical strippers to be avoided? What should I
> do?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Joseph
>

 

[[email protected]]

Grolch wrote:
> The absolute best way to strip the frame without doing any damage to the
> brazing, threads or the envoronment is to have it bead blasted (plastic
> beads) or soda blasted (bicarbonate of Soda) A look in the Yellow Pages
> should show "powder coating" facilities in your area. They typically blast
> items of complex configuration. I say this with a vast amount of experience
> and knowledge in this field. I am a NACE (National Association of Corrosion
> Engineers) Certified Coating Specialist... And a life long cyclist
>
> Best of Luck.
>
> BTW, Powder Coating is probably the most durable coating method while being
> extremely environmentally Friendly.
>
> Grolsch

I've heard that powder coating looks "thick" and details disappear. Is
this true?

Joseph

 

[David L. Johnson]

On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 00:06:27 -0800, joseph.santaniello wrote:


>> BTW, Powder Coating is probably the most durable coating method while being
>> extremely environmentally Friendly.
>>
>> Grolsch
>
> I've heard that powder coating looks "thick" and details disappear. Is
> this true?

Perhaps slightly, but it is not a problem. I had my old track frame
powder-coated years ago --- hmm, 5 years ago I think. It was and is
beautiful, metallic cobalt blue. You can still read the serial number
stamped onto the BB shell, so you certainly don't loose detail. The old
Nervex lugs still look great.

And the finish is still in excellent condition, with only 2 little chips
near the seatpost bolt. Oops.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | The lottery is a tax on those who fail to understand
_`\(,_ | mathematics.
(_)/ (_) |

 

[Grolch]

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Grolch wrote:
>> The absolute best way to strip the frame without doing any damage to the
>> brazing, threads or the envoronment is to have it bead blasted (plastic
>> beads) or soda blasted (bicarbonate of Soda) A look in the Yellow Pages
>> should show "powder coating" facilities in your area. They typically
>> blast
>> items of complex configuration. I say this with a vast amount of
>> experience
>> and knowledge in this field. I am a NACE (National Association of
>> Corrosion
>> Engineers) Certified Coating Specialist... And a life long cyclist
>>
>> Best of Luck.
>>
>> BTW, Powder Coating is probably the most durable coating method while
>> being
>> extremely environmentally Friendly.
>>
>> Grolsch
>
> I've heard that powder coating looks "thick" and details disappear. Is
> this true?
>
> Joseph
>

The big advantage of powder coating vs liquid applied coatings is the even
application of the powder coat. Being electrostatically deposited, the
powder coats all surfaces evenly. Except at "outside corners", that is to
say the electrostatic charge acts in a way so that a slight overthickness is
deposited at "peaks" (it's the nature of the electrostatic charge).
conversly, less powder is deposited in "box" structures (Faraday cage
effect). What this means in terms of hiding details is minimal. On the other
hand, Liquid coatings, have solvent in them (most do anyway,), and because
of this, shrink as they cure (evaporation of solvent). The coatings tend to
pull away most from "peaks" and outside corners (opposite effect to powder
coat). That's why the ridges, edges etc, always seem to need extra attention
when coating (especially evident with light colours). And why, coating
failure (rusting etc) occurs at edges (the coating is the thinnest).

The overall effect of the difference is one of what we are used to seeing.
Note that a typical DFT (Dry Fil Thickness) of a powder coated item
(Polyester Urethane) might be in the order of 3mils (.003"), Liquid applied
Polyester Urethane system (epoxy primer, urethane topcoats) might be 2 -
5mils (.002 - .005"). So the amount of detail being hidden is minimal, yes
it may look different than what you are used to...But it is a "good"
difference.

Grolsch

 

[Leo Lichtman]

<[email protected]> wrote: Use a good citrus paste type stripper
and you should be good to go. Remember that it needs to stay wet to work
(clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Also, there is a strong temptation to keep brushing it after it is on.
Don't do that. The skin that forms on the surface slows down evaporation,
so the stuff works better. Each brush stroke rolls new material to the
surface, and the skin has to start reforming.

 

[Leo Lichtman]

Paint that is firmly adhered can be sanded, and it acts as an excellent
primer for a finish coat. IOW, you could just sand off the bad parts,
lightly sand the good parts, and repaint. (Of course, prime any bare metal
that shows.)

 

[Grolch]

"Leo Lichtman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Paint that is firmly adhered can be sanded, and it acts as an excellent
> primer for a finish coat. IOW, you could just sand off the bad parts,
> lightly sand the good parts, and repaint. (Of course, prime any bare
> metal that shows.)
>

OTOH, if you want to do a really first class job.....

 

[Leo Lichtman]

"Grolch" wrote: OTOH, if you want to do a really first class job.....
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Auto body shops and car restorers rarely strip the entire car down to bare
metal. This is necessary only in extreme cases. It is usually possible to
do successive sandings and spray primings until the surfaces feel and look
smooth.

 

[Donald Gillies]

I don't recommend powder coating. We are all just caretakers of these
bikes, which can last 50 or 100 years by themselves. Unless it's an
offroad bicycle, do you reall _need_ a powder coat? Because it will
DAMAGE the value of the bike - forcing the new owner to accept your
color choice, more or less (because a powder coat is so difficult to
remove...)

If you had a pet that would outlive you, would you amputate their
perfectly good tail? Wouldn't that possibly decrease the value to to
a new owner?

powder coats are very difficult to remove / repaint.
powder coats obscure luglines and frame workmanship.
powder coats are boring. No Candies. Few Metallics. No
Polychromatics. It's cheap because you give up a lot !!
powder coats don't really work if you're using bondo and nearly
every bicycle painter will tell you to use bondo to fill nicks,
etc., when you repaint any frame.

If you're going to get the frame blasted, you still need to strip the
chrome all by hand and/or polish it, then mask it, before taking it to
get blasted. Otherwise, the blasting will pit/ruin the chrome.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA, USA

 

[[email protected]]

Donald Gillies wrote:
> I don't recommend powder coating. We are all just caretakers of these
> bikes, which can last 50 or 100 years by themselves. Unless it's an
> offroad bicycle, do you reall _need_ a powder coat? Because it will
> DAMAGE the value of the bike - forcing the new owner to accept your
> color choice, more or less (because a powder coat is so difficult to
> remove...)

I was just thinking about that last night. I wonder how long this bike
will actually last. How many years would it take for a steel frame to
rust away to nothing?


> If you had a pet that would outlive you, would you amputate their
> perfectly good tail? Wouldn't that possibly decrease the value to to
> a new owner?
>
> powder coats are very difficult to remove / repaint.
> powder coats obscure luglines and frame workmanship.

This is my main concern. It seems that regular paint is thicker at
inside edges, and more thin at outside edges, and this is particularly
evident at the lugs. It would be a shame to make the lugwork (while
simple) seem clunky. And there is the faint text on the dropouts that I
would like to preserve.

> powder coats are boring. No Candies. Few Metallics. No

The bike has a warm white metallic, with a very fine grained metallic
that has a slight gold to it. Probably hard to match with paint too!

> Polychromatics. It's cheap because you give up a lot !!
> powder coats don't really work if you're using bondo and nearly
> every bicycle painter will tell you to use bondo to fill nicks,
> etc., when you repaint any frame.
>
> If you're going to get the frame blasted, you still need to strip the
> chrome all by hand and/or polish it, then mask it, before taking it to
> get blasted. Otherwise, the blasting will pit/ruin the chrome.

The frame has no chrome. I was considering chroming the rear triangle,
but I'm not sure if that would ruin the bike.

Joseph