T
The_king
Guest
Hi all this is my first post, i've been having panic attacks and i don't know what for. Can
anyone help me?
king
anyone help me?
king
A
Anonymous
Guest
"the_king" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi all this is my first post, i've been having panic attacks and i don't know what for. Can anyone
> help me?
>
>
> king
If you look up Panic Attacks on Google you will find a bunch of sites with a lot of resources.
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=panic+attacks
From what I understand there is not necessarily a "what for" - i.e. an obvious cause - and there are
some medications that can help, as can counseling. So see your Dr.
I think there is a newsgroup alt.support.anxiety-panic, but I don't know how active it is.
Bill - not a Dr.
news:[email protected]...
> Hi all this is my first post, i've been having panic attacks and i don't know what for. Can anyone
> help me?
>
>
> king
If you look up Panic Attacks on Google you will find a bunch of sites with a lot of resources.
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=panic+attacks
From what I understand there is not necessarily a "what for" - i.e. an obvious cause - and there are
some medications that can help, as can counseling. So see your Dr.
I think there is a newsgroup alt.support.anxiety-panic, but I don't know how active it is.
Bill - not a Dr.
E
Ear Rings
Guest
Most of these anxiety problems run in families and are genetic. See a doctor about medication. You
will wish you did years ago. It takes time to feel normal again. You can do this.
Have you had a lot of stressful things in your life lately that have pushed you over the edge?
Sometimes it takes things like that to bring it out where you feel out of control.
This is not a personal failure. This is a common belief.
Best of luck.
"the_king" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi all this is my first post, i've been having panic attacks and i don't know what for. Can anyone
> help me?
>
>
> king
will wish you did years ago. It takes time to feel normal again. You can do this.
Have you had a lot of stressful things in your life lately that have pushed you over the edge?
Sometimes it takes things like that to bring it out where you feel out of control.
This is not a personal failure. This is a common belief.
Best of luck.
"the_king" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi all this is my first post, i've been having panic attacks and i don't know what for. Can anyone
> help me?
>
>
> king
F
Fire
Guest
"Ear Rings" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Most of these anxiety problems run in families and are genetic. See a
doctor
> about medication. You will wish you did years ago. It takes time to feel normal again. You can
> do this.
>
> Have you had a lot of stressful things in your life lately that have
pushed
> you over the edge? Sometimes it takes things like that to bring it out
where
> you feel out of control.
>
> This is not a personal failure. This is a common belief.
>
> Best of luck.
>
> "the_king" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Hi all this is my first post, i've been having panic attacks and i don't know what for. Can
> > anyone help me?
> >
> >
> > king
>
>
>
Thanks alot mate
news:[email protected]...
> Most of these anxiety problems run in families and are genetic. See a
doctor
> about medication. You will wish you did years ago. It takes time to feel normal again. You can
> do this.
>
> Have you had a lot of stressful things in your life lately that have
pushed
> you over the edge? Sometimes it takes things like that to bring it out
where
> you feel out of control.
>
> This is not a personal failure. This is a common belief.
>
> Best of luck.
>
> "the_king" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Hi all this is my first post, i've been having panic attacks and i don't know what for. Can
> > anyone help me?
> >
> >
> > king
>
>
>
Thanks alot mate
C
Caploc
Guest
Hi King Whatever is causing it can only be doing you harm, go see a Dr, now..................well
what are waiting for, off you go. Cappy
"the_king" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi all this is my first post, i've been having panic attacks and i don't know what for. Can anyone
> help me?
>
>
> king
what are waiting for, off you go. Cappy
"the_king" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi all this is my first post, i've been having panic attacks and i don't know what for. Can anyone
> help me?
>
>
> king
E
Emma Chase Vanc
Guest
"the_king" <[email protected]> wrote in message
: news:[email protected]...
: > Hi all this is my first post, i've been having panic attacks and i don't know what for. Can
: > anyone help me?
Can this happen with Mitral Valve problems?
Emma
: news:[email protected]...
: > Hi all this is my first post, i've been having panic attacks and i don't know what for. Can
: > anyone help me?
Can this happen with Mitral Valve problems?
Emma
F
Francispoon
Guest
The only panic attack i have had in my life was when i was chased around by a meat merchants in
Chinatown with a butcher knife in his hand. He hated a gut out of me when his stock options were
about to expire worthless. I recommended him to buy those options when i was a broker. Later on, the
options came back alive with a profit when the company was taken over and he gave me a roasted pig
as a gift!
At any rate, during the days of panic, i found smoking to help me a lot.
FP
==================================
"Ear Rings" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> Most of these anxiety problems run in families and are genetic. See a doctor about medication. You
> will wish you did years ago. It takes time to feel normal again. You can do this.
>
> Have you had a lot of stressful things in your life lately that have pushed you over the edge?
> Sometimes it takes things like that to bring it out where you feel out of control.
>
> This is not a personal failure. This is a common belief.
>
> Best of luck.
>
> "the_king" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Hi all this is my first post, i've been having panic attacks and i don't know what for. Can
> > anyone help me?
> >
> >
> > king
Chinatown with a butcher knife in his hand. He hated a gut out of me when his stock options were
about to expire worthless. I recommended him to buy those options when i was a broker. Later on, the
options came back alive with a profit when the company was taken over and he gave me a roasted pig
as a gift!
At any rate, during the days of panic, i found smoking to help me a lot.
FP
==================================
"Ear Rings" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> Most of these anxiety problems run in families and are genetic. See a doctor about medication. You
> will wish you did years ago. It takes time to feel normal again. You can do this.
>
> Have you had a lot of stressful things in your life lately that have pushed you over the edge?
> Sometimes it takes things like that to bring it out where you feel out of control.
>
> This is not a personal failure. This is a common belief.
>
> Best of luck.
>
> "the_king" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Hi all this is my first post, i've been having panic attacks and i don't know what for. Can
> > anyone help me?
> >
> >
> > king
D
Dr. Andrew B. C
Guest
Emma Chase VanCott wrote:
> : "the_king" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> : news:[email protected]...
> : > Hi all this is my first post, i've been having panic attacks and i don't know what for. Can
> : > anyone help me?
>
> Can this happen with Mitral Valve problems?
>
> Emma
Yes, Emma.
Folks with mitral valve prolapse (MVP) are more prone to have supraventricular tachycardias (SVT)
which can be unnerving because of the symptoms they produce (rapid pounding heartbeat).
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/
--
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?L21532147
> : "the_king" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> : news:[email protected]...
> : > Hi all this is my first post, i've been having panic attacks and i don't know what for. Can
> : > anyone help me?
>
> Can this happen with Mitral Valve problems?
>
> Emma
Yes, Emma.
Folks with mitral valve prolapse (MVP) are more prone to have supraventricular tachycardias (SVT)
which can be unnerving because of the symptoms they produce (rapid pounding heartbeat).
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/
--
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?L21532147
D
Dr. Andrew B. C
Guest
francispoon wrote:
> The only panic attack i have had in my life was when i was chased around by a meat merchants in
> Chinatown with a butcher knife in his hand.
This would be sheer panic rather than a "panic attack", Francis
We reserve "panic attacks" for states of panic without any apparent reason for panic.
Are we sure the butcher didn't clobber you thereby causing the tinnitus? ;-)
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/
--
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?L21532147
> The only panic attack i have had in my life was when i was chased around by a meat merchants in
> Chinatown with a butcher knife in his hand.
This would be sheer panic rather than a "panic attack", Francis
We reserve "panic attacks" for states of panic without any apparent reason for panic.
Are we sure the butcher didn't clobber you thereby causing the tinnitus? ;-)
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/
--
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?L21532147
S
Steve
Guest
On Fri, 6 Feb 2004 10:03:21 -0500, Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote
(in message <[email protected]>):
> Emma Chase VanCott wrote:
>
>>> "the_king" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> Hi all this is my first post, i've been having panic attacks and i don't know what for. Can
>>>> anyone help me?
>>
>> Can this happen with Mitral Valve problems?
>>
>> Emma
<snip>
**************************** WARNING *****************************
* *
* The Original Poster should be very cautious in *
* crediting any advice posted in a newsgroup. In exercising *
* this caution, they would be well advised to *
* carefully consider the source. *
* *
******************************************************************
On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 5:17:30 -0500, A. B. Chung FAQ wrote (in message <chungfaq-
[email protected]>):
>
> ---------------------------------
> | The Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD FAQ |
> | Version 1.0, January, 2004 |
> ---------------------------------
>
> Introduction
> ------------
> New people arriving in sci.med.cardiology (s.m.c.) are often puzzled and troubled by the
> controversy surrounding the poster who posts as Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD (Dr. Chung) and want
> to know what the controversy is about. This FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) attempts to provide
> an answer.
>
> The FAQ is arranged in typical FAQ form, i.e. a series of questions and answers. For those who
> don=B9t wish to read the whole FAQ, the following summary is provided.
>
> Summary
> -------
> Dr. Chung represents himself to be a licensed physician specializing in cardiology. In this
> capacity he responds to medical questions on
> s.m.c.. If that were all he did, there would probably be no controversy.
>
> The controversy arises from Dr. Chung=B9s other behaviors on s.m.c., in particular:
>
> o He uses s.m.c. to not only proselytize his particular interpretation of Christianity, but also
> to disparage and attack anyone with a different interpretation or different religion.
>
> o He uses s.m.c. to promote his unscientific Two Pound Diet (2PD) and, in fact, cross posts this
> information to other groups in order to gain more exposure.
>
> o When challenged on the above issues, or one of his medical opinions, he attacks his challengers
> as "obsessive anti-Christians",
> etc.
>
> o When challenged he performs Internet searches on his challengers in order to "get the dirt" on
> them and smear their reputations.
>
> o When challenged, he answers with evasions, non sequiturs, dissembling, rhetorical questions,
> quotes from the bible, religious mantras, thinly veiled death threats, ad hominem arguments, and
> other such disreputable, unethical, and unprofessional tactics.
>
> o He is insufferably full of himself, claiming to have "the gift of Truth Discernment" and to be
> "Humble" while behaving anything but humbly.
>
> o He uses a foil who posts under variations of the name "Mu" to avoid killfiles. Mu=B9s job is to
> troll other newsgroups and, when he gets a reaction, to cross post the reaction to s.m.c. so that
> Dr. Chung can disingenuously claim to be "only responding" to a cross post. Whereas Dr. Chung has
> to be somewhat careful what he says and so attacks primarily through insinuation and innuendo,
> Mu=B9s tactics are blunt and direct like those of a playground bully.
>
> The above lists only the highlights of Dr. Chung=B9s egregious behavior on s.m.c.. If anything, it
> understates it. Everything can be verified in the Google archives.
>
> The issue then arises: so what? As long as Dr. Chung provides free medical advice on s.m.c., who
> cares what else he does?
>
> Many people provide free medical advice on the internet. How does one know whether it is good
> advice or bad advice? If the person giving the advice is, or represents himself to be, a doctor
> shouldn=B9t that be enough? Unfortunately, no.
>
> Medical education alone is not enough to guarantee good advice. Knowledge must be tempered with
> judgment, impartiality, integrity, ethics, and professionalism. If someone consistently
> demonstrates by their behavior that they lack these qualities, how much credence should be given
> to their medical advice?
>
> People arrive in this group looking for help. For their own protection, they deserve to know the
> quality of the person purporting to dispense that help and not be lulled into a false sense of
> security simply because someone displays an MD after their name. It is the intention of this FAQ
> to provide people with enough information to allow them to make an informed decision.
>
> List of Questions Answered
> --------------------------
> 1. Who is Dr. Andrew B Chung, MD/PhD?
> 2. What is the Charter of s.m.c.?
> 3. Aren=B9t Religious Discussions Covered by the Charter?
> 4. So Dr. Chung is Religious... What=B9s the Problem With That?
> 5. But it=B9s Just a Little "Tag Line" in His Signature.
> 6. But I=B9m a Christian Too!
> 7. Well, Why Not Just Ignore His Religious Rants?
> 8. But Isn=B9t It Wonderful That Dr. Chung Offers This Free Medical Advice Out of the Goodness of
> His Heart?
> 9. How Does a Practicing Physician Find so Much Time to Spend on Usenet?
> 10. Won=B9t Challenging Dr. Chung Drive People Away?
> 11. Doesn't the "Fault" for all Those Posts Lay With Those Who Challenge Dr. Chung?
> 12. Why Do I see So Many "Ad Hominem" Attacks?
> 13. I'm Sick of Seeing All This!
> 14. What is the Two Pound Diet?
> 15. Is Discussion of the Two Pound Diet "On Topic"?
> 16. Who is Mu?
> 17. What is Mu=B9s Role?
>
>
> 1. Who is Dr. Andrew B Chung, MD/PhD?
> --------------------------------------
> The poster who posts as Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD claims to be a licensed physician, practicing
> internal medicine in Atlanta, Georgia, USA and specializing in cardiology. His signature contains
> a link to a website which is consistent with his posts.
>
> It should be noted that anyone can claim to be anyone on Usenet and so caution is always advised.
> Indeed there are those who claim that the poster in question is not Dr. Andrew B. Chung, or is not
> the Dr. Andrew
> B. Chung listed in the Atlanta telephone directory, and/or has lost his license and/or hospital
> privileges for misconduct. This FAQ does not attempt to address those claims one way or the
> other. The reader with an interest in these matters can easily find the relevant discussions
> archived in Google Groups.
>
> This FAQ deals with the poster who posts as Dr. Chung and restricts itself to issues demonstrated
> by those posts. No position is taken on his "true" identity.
>
> 2. What is the Charter of s.m.c.?
> ----------------------------------
> The purpose of this newsgroup is to establish electronic media for communication between health
> care providers, scientists and other individuals with interest in the cardiovascular field. Such
> communications will provide quick and efficacious means to exchange information and knowledge, and
> offer problems to solutions.
>
> The sci.med.cardiology newsgroup will welcome participants who are health care providers,
> trainees, researchers, students or recipients with interest in the field of cardiovascular
> problems."
>
> (ftp://ftp.uu.net/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/sci/sci.med.cardiology)
>
>
> 3. Aren=B9t Religious Discussions Covered by the Charter?
> --------------------------------------------------------
> What do you think?
>
> 4. So Dr. Chung is Religious... What=B9s the Problem With That?
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> There is no problem with that. Most of the people who participate in
> s.m.c. are probably religious. However no one but Dr. Chung feels compelled to characterize
> themselves as the "Humble Servant of God" in their signatures, continually thank God for
> the opportunity to "witness", question others about their religious beliefs, claim the
> "Gift of Truth Discernment", etc.
>
> When one person insists on introducing his personal religious interpretations into the
> discussions, it naturally generates responses from others who feel just as strongly that their
> viewpoints are correct. The resulting debate easily swirls out of control, especially given Dr.
> Chung=B9s intolerant and dismissive attitude towards beliefs which differ from his. The situation
> is further exacerbated by Mu=B9s rabble raising from the sidelines.
>
> There are over 160 Usenet groups dedicated to the discussion of religion. Dr. Chung should take
> his beliefs to one of these and stick to cardiology in s.m.c. It is a simple matter of respect
> for others.
>
> 5. But it=B9s Just a Little "Tag Line" in His Signature.
> -------------------------------------------------------
> No, it is not. He has even gone so far as to "investigate" someone asking for advice about stents
> and accuse her of being anti-Christian.
>
> 6. But I=B9m a Christian Too!
> ----------------------------
> Lots of people are Christians. There is a time and a place for everything. s.m.c. isn=B9t the
> place to "witness" or recruit. In addition, lots of other people are Jews, Moslems, Buddhists,
> Taoists, Hindus, etc. Would s.m.c. be better or worse if they all emulated Dr. Chung in their
> proselytizing and recruiting?
>
> Furthermore, if you are a Christian, you should be appalled by Dr. Chung=B9s pharisaical, cynical,
> and manipulative use of Christianity. He is truly a "whitened sepulcher", loudly proclaiming his
> adherence to Christian values while overtly lying, carrying on smear campaigns against others,
> making false accusations, dissembling, and marketing his web site under the guise of altruism. He
> is "bearing false witness" and true Christians should be concerned.
>
> As an example, when John Ritter recently died unexpectedly, Dr. Chung rushed to use this
> unfortunate event to market his web site. He showed a total lack of Christian compassion for Mr.
> Ritter and his family, even when challenged to do so.
>
> As another example, he recently choreographed a smear campaign against
> with the same first name and then insinuated that the poster and anyone
> yourself if this the brand of Christianity you identify with.
>
> 7. Well, Why Not Just Ignore His Religious Rants?
> --------------------------------------------------
> Why should one individual be given carte blanche to violate the rights of everyone else? Usenet is
> a community. It is up to the community to sanction its members. There is nothing "ad hominem"
> about challenging inappropriate and antisocial behavior.
>
>8. But Isn=B9t It Wonderful That Dr. Chung Offers This Free
> Medical Advice Out of the Goodness of His Heart?
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> First, it is only of value if it is good advice. Medical education alone is not enough to
> guarantee good advice. Knowledge must be tempered with judgment, impartiality, integrity, ethics,
> and professionalism. If someone consistently demonstrates by their behavior that they lack these
> qualities, how much credence should be given to their medical advice?
>
> Secondly, despite his protestations to the contrary, Dr. Chung is not simply motivated by
> altruism. Every post of Dr. Chung's contains a link to a website with the following quote:
>
> "If you are looking for a cardiologist and reside in Georgia, please consider me your best
> option for a personal heart advocate. Check out my credentials and my background. Additional
> information is available in the protected sections of this web site. Email me at
> [email protected] to me of your interest and I may send you a temporary username and
> password to allow a preview. The more information you email, the more likely my decision to send
> you a temporary username and password. If you like what you see and learn from this website and
> wish to confer with me about your heart, you or your doctor should email me privately or call my
> voicemail at 404-699-2780 to schedule an appointment to see me at my *real* office."
> (http://www.heartmdphd.com/office.asp)
>
> Thirdly, Dr. Chung has repeatedly stated that one of his key motivations for participating is
> s.m.c. is to "witness" and win converts to his religious beliefs.
>
> 9. How Does a Practicing Physician Find so Much Time to Spend on Usenet?
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> An interesting question.
>
> 10. Won=B9t Challenging Dr. Chung Drive People Away?
> --------------------------------------------------
> Perhaps. But not challenging him will drive others away.
>
> s.m.c. is historically a "low traffic" group. Therefore, when Dr. Chung misbehaves, he generates
> an apparently large response. This is compounded by Dr. Chung=B9s need to "get in the last
> word" and Mu=B9s provocations. In spite of this, if someone has a question it will usually
> be answered.
>
> Dr. Chung is not the only participant who offers advice in s.m.c. He is not even the only doctor
> who participates in s.m.c. However, the controversy he generates and sustains often makes it
> appear that he is the "only game in town".
>
> Finally, Dr. Chung himself drives others away including other physicians who leave in disgust
> after being verbally assaulted by him, and other knowledgeable posters who point out where Dr.
> Chung=B9s medical opinion might be in error or at least not the only one generally held. Anyone
> disagreeing with Dr. Chung on any subject can expect a series of increasingly vitriolic attacks,
> including threats of libel suits.
>
> 11. Doesn't the "Fault" for all Those Posts Lay With Those Who Challenge Dr. Chung?
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> An interesting perspective: blame the victim. No other poster (with the exception of Mu, of
> course) introduces religion or the Two Pound Diet. How can it be acceptable for Dr. Chung to
> introduce these topics, but not acceptable for others to respond?
>
> In any thread, someone must, of necessity "get the last word".
> Dr. Chung has amply demonstrated that he will not be outdone in this respect.
>
> 12. Why Do I see So Many "Ad Hominem" Attacks?
> ----------------------------------------------
> You are probably referring to an "Ad Hominem" _argument_, which attempts to disprove an
> adversary's fact by personal attack on the adversary. An example would be "You are opposed to the
> Two Pound Diet because you are anti-Christian".
>
> When someone misbehaves, for example lies or distorts what someone else is saying, it is not an
> "ad hominem attack" to call them on it. It is a legitimate social sanction.
>
> There are also, unfortunately too often, simple personal attacks and insults on both sides. While
> we can all wish it weren't so, it is simply human nature when an argument becomes heated or the
> other person is obviously not arguing in good faith. If you are distressed by this, see the next
> question.
>
> 13. I'm Sick of Seeing All This!
> --------------------------------
> There is no reason why you have to see it. Just as you can change the TV channel if you don't like
> a show, you can killfile a poster or thread you don't want to see. See the manual that came with
> your Usenet reader for directions on how to do it.
>
> Before you do this, however, you may wish to consider if a truer picture of the world is not
> gained by seeing all that goes on - both the good and the bad.
>
> 14. What is the Two Pound Diet?
> -------------------------------
> The Two pound Diet is a diet which Dr. Chung "invented". It=B9s only rule is to restrict yourself
> to two pounds of food per day. That=B9s it. Doesn=B9t matter if you are a 16 year old girl or an
> 80 year old man; a 5=B9 2" woman or a 7=B9 man; a weight lifter or a mattress tester. Two pounds.
> That=B9s it. No more, less if you want. One size fits all.
>
> Oh, and the food? Whatever you want: two pounds of lettuce, two pounds of ice cream, two pounds of
> celery, two pounds of bacon, two pounds of chocolate, two pounds of peanuts... doesn=B9t matter.
> Mix and match. Just keep it under two pounds.
>
> Dr. Chung=B9s claim is that this magical weight of food, this universal gustatory constant will
> cause everyone to arrive at and maintain their ideal weight. His scientific basis for this
> claim: none. The proof he offers: none. Studies supporting this claim: none. Nutritional
> explanation: none. Metabolic explanation: none.
>
> And this from a doctor who expects people to take him seriously on other issues.
>
> 15. Is Discussion of the Two Pound Diet "On Topic"?
> ---------------------------------------------------
> Dr. Chung says it is because being overweight is a risk factor for heart problems and therefore
> discussion of the Two Pound Diet is On Topic. However criticism of the Two Pound Diet is Off
> Topic as is discussion of any other diet.
>
> As with religion, Dr. Chung takes every opportunity to introduce the Two Pound Diet (2PD) into any
> other thread. In addition Mu trolls other newsgroups, particularly the diet groups looking for
> opportunities to introduce the 2PD in these groups and then cross post the resulting discussion
> back to s.m.c so that Dr. Chung can disingenuously claim to be "only responding" to a cross post.
>
> Since Dr. Chung and Mu have been laughed off of these other groups and have been asked repeatedly
> not to bring up the 2PD in them, participants of these groups are understandably angered when it
> happens yet again=8A and, because of Mu=B9s cross-posting, all their anger spills back into s.m.c.
>
> Another reason for ongoing 2PD discussions is Dr. Chung=B9s habit of researching anyone who
> criticizes the 2PD and then cross-posting his responses back to other groups which the critic
> has been found to frequent. He disingenuously claims that he does this as a "convenience" to the
> critic, but his true reasons are transparent. Once again, the cross-post generates a firestorm
> in s.m.c.
>
> The bottom line is that if the Two Pound Diet is "On Topic" for anyone, it is "On Topic" for
> everyone... including it's critics. If it is "Off Topic", it should not be continually re-
> introduced by Dr. Chung.
>
> 16. Who is Mu?
> --------------
> Mu is a longtime Usenet Troll who has even merited his own FAQ. He postures as some kind of
> personal physical trainer, but who really knows? He has allied himself with Dr. Chung and serves
> as the "Bad Cop" in the Chung - Mu "Good Cop - Bad Cop" routine. He specializes in the short,
> nasty one-liner and, because unlike Dr. Chung, he has no reputation to protect, he can afford to
> be much more direct and offensive.
>
> Mu parrots an even meaner-spirited version of Dr. Chung=B9s "Christianity" and does not hesitate
> to employ anti-Semitism and homophobia in his attacks.
>
> Naturally, most people would have long ago killfiled Mu, so he changes his handle on an almost
> daily basis.
>
> 17. What is Mu=B9s Role?
> ----------------------
> Mu=B9s role is to troll other newsgroups and, when he gets a reaction, to cross post the reaction
> to s.m.c. so that Dr. Chung can disingenuously claim to be "only responding" to a cross post.
>
> Mu is also responsible for pitching softballs to Dr. Chung so he can hit them out of the park, and
> for re-introducing religion and the Two Pound Diet should the discussion flag.
>
> Finally, Mu=B9s role is to tirelessly wear down unsuspecting Dr. Chung critics, deflecting the
> blows that would otherwise be aimed at Dr. Chung. He is Dr. Chung=B9s Internet equivalent of the
> "rope-a-dope". Insults roll off him like water off a duck as do attempts to reason with him or
> even have a civil discussion.
>
> Most people have learned to ignore him and his comment is usually the last one in any thread sub-
> tree where it appears.
(in message <[email protected]>):
> Emma Chase VanCott wrote:
>
>>> "the_king" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> Hi all this is my first post, i've been having panic attacks and i don't know what for. Can
>>>> anyone help me?
>>
>> Can this happen with Mitral Valve problems?
>>
>> Emma
<snip>
**************************** WARNING *****************************
* *
* The Original Poster should be very cautious in *
* crediting any advice posted in a newsgroup. In exercising *
* this caution, they would be well advised to *
* carefully consider the source. *
* *
******************************************************************
On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 5:17:30 -0500, A. B. Chung FAQ wrote (in message <chungfaq-
[email protected]>):
>
> ---------------------------------
> | The Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD FAQ |
> | Version 1.0, January, 2004 |
> ---------------------------------
>
> Introduction
> ------------
> New people arriving in sci.med.cardiology (s.m.c.) are often puzzled and troubled by the
> controversy surrounding the poster who posts as Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD (Dr. Chung) and want
> to know what the controversy is about. This FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) attempts to provide
> an answer.
>
> The FAQ is arranged in typical FAQ form, i.e. a series of questions and answers. For those who
> don=B9t wish to read the whole FAQ, the following summary is provided.
>
> Summary
> -------
> Dr. Chung represents himself to be a licensed physician specializing in cardiology. In this
> capacity he responds to medical questions on
> s.m.c.. If that were all he did, there would probably be no controversy.
>
> The controversy arises from Dr. Chung=B9s other behaviors on s.m.c., in particular:
>
> o He uses s.m.c. to not only proselytize his particular interpretation of Christianity, but also
> to disparage and attack anyone with a different interpretation or different religion.
>
> o He uses s.m.c. to promote his unscientific Two Pound Diet (2PD) and, in fact, cross posts this
> information to other groups in order to gain more exposure.
>
> o When challenged on the above issues, or one of his medical opinions, he attacks his challengers
> as "obsessive anti-Christians",
> etc.
>
> o When challenged he performs Internet searches on his challengers in order to "get the dirt" on
> them and smear their reputations.
>
> o When challenged, he answers with evasions, non sequiturs, dissembling, rhetorical questions,
> quotes from the bible, religious mantras, thinly veiled death threats, ad hominem arguments, and
> other such disreputable, unethical, and unprofessional tactics.
>
> o He is insufferably full of himself, claiming to have "the gift of Truth Discernment" and to be
> "Humble" while behaving anything but humbly.
>
> o He uses a foil who posts under variations of the name "Mu" to avoid killfiles. Mu=B9s job is to
> troll other newsgroups and, when he gets a reaction, to cross post the reaction to s.m.c. so that
> Dr. Chung can disingenuously claim to be "only responding" to a cross post. Whereas Dr. Chung has
> to be somewhat careful what he says and so attacks primarily through insinuation and innuendo,
> Mu=B9s tactics are blunt and direct like those of a playground bully.
>
> The above lists only the highlights of Dr. Chung=B9s egregious behavior on s.m.c.. If anything, it
> understates it. Everything can be verified in the Google archives.
>
> The issue then arises: so what? As long as Dr. Chung provides free medical advice on s.m.c., who
> cares what else he does?
>
> Many people provide free medical advice on the internet. How does one know whether it is good
> advice or bad advice? If the person giving the advice is, or represents himself to be, a doctor
> shouldn=B9t that be enough? Unfortunately, no.
>
> Medical education alone is not enough to guarantee good advice. Knowledge must be tempered with
> judgment, impartiality, integrity, ethics, and professionalism. If someone consistently
> demonstrates by their behavior that they lack these qualities, how much credence should be given
> to their medical advice?
>
> People arrive in this group looking for help. For their own protection, they deserve to know the
> quality of the person purporting to dispense that help and not be lulled into a false sense of
> security simply because someone displays an MD after their name. It is the intention of this FAQ
> to provide people with enough information to allow them to make an informed decision.
>
> List of Questions Answered
> --------------------------
> 1. Who is Dr. Andrew B Chung, MD/PhD?
> 2. What is the Charter of s.m.c.?
> 3. Aren=B9t Religious Discussions Covered by the Charter?
> 4. So Dr. Chung is Religious... What=B9s the Problem With That?
> 5. But it=B9s Just a Little "Tag Line" in His Signature.
> 6. But I=B9m a Christian Too!
> 7. Well, Why Not Just Ignore His Religious Rants?
> 8. But Isn=B9t It Wonderful That Dr. Chung Offers This Free Medical Advice Out of the Goodness of
> His Heart?
> 9. How Does a Practicing Physician Find so Much Time to Spend on Usenet?
> 10. Won=B9t Challenging Dr. Chung Drive People Away?
> 11. Doesn't the "Fault" for all Those Posts Lay With Those Who Challenge Dr. Chung?
> 12. Why Do I see So Many "Ad Hominem" Attacks?
> 13. I'm Sick of Seeing All This!
> 14. What is the Two Pound Diet?
> 15. Is Discussion of the Two Pound Diet "On Topic"?
> 16. Who is Mu?
> 17. What is Mu=B9s Role?
>
>
> 1. Who is Dr. Andrew B Chung, MD/PhD?
> --------------------------------------
> The poster who posts as Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD claims to be a licensed physician, practicing
> internal medicine in Atlanta, Georgia, USA and specializing in cardiology. His signature contains
> a link to a website which is consistent with his posts.
>
> It should be noted that anyone can claim to be anyone on Usenet and so caution is always advised.
> Indeed there are those who claim that the poster in question is not Dr. Andrew B. Chung, or is not
> the Dr. Andrew
> B. Chung listed in the Atlanta telephone directory, and/or has lost his license and/or hospital
> privileges for misconduct. This FAQ does not attempt to address those claims one way or the
> other. The reader with an interest in these matters can easily find the relevant discussions
> archived in Google Groups.
>
> This FAQ deals with the poster who posts as Dr. Chung and restricts itself to issues demonstrated
> by those posts. No position is taken on his "true" identity.
>
> 2. What is the Charter of s.m.c.?
> ----------------------------------
> The purpose of this newsgroup is to establish electronic media for communication between health
> care providers, scientists and other individuals with interest in the cardiovascular field. Such
> communications will provide quick and efficacious means to exchange information and knowledge, and
> offer problems to solutions.
>
> The sci.med.cardiology newsgroup will welcome participants who are health care providers,
> trainees, researchers, students or recipients with interest in the field of cardiovascular
> problems."
>
> (ftp://ftp.uu.net/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/sci/sci.med.cardiology)
>
>
> 3. Aren=B9t Religious Discussions Covered by the Charter?
> --------------------------------------------------------
> What do you think?
>
> 4. So Dr. Chung is Religious... What=B9s the Problem With That?
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> There is no problem with that. Most of the people who participate in
> s.m.c. are probably religious. However no one but Dr. Chung feels compelled to characterize
> themselves as the "Humble Servant of God" in their signatures, continually thank God for
> the opportunity to "witness", question others about their religious beliefs, claim the
> "Gift of Truth Discernment", etc.
>
> When one person insists on introducing his personal religious interpretations into the
> discussions, it naturally generates responses from others who feel just as strongly that their
> viewpoints are correct. The resulting debate easily swirls out of control, especially given Dr.
> Chung=B9s intolerant and dismissive attitude towards beliefs which differ from his. The situation
> is further exacerbated by Mu=B9s rabble raising from the sidelines.
>
> There are over 160 Usenet groups dedicated to the discussion of religion. Dr. Chung should take
> his beliefs to one of these and stick to cardiology in s.m.c. It is a simple matter of respect
> for others.
>
> 5. But it=B9s Just a Little "Tag Line" in His Signature.
> -------------------------------------------------------
> No, it is not. He has even gone so far as to "investigate" someone asking for advice about stents
> and accuse her of being anti-Christian.
>
> 6. But I=B9m a Christian Too!
> ----------------------------
> Lots of people are Christians. There is a time and a place for everything. s.m.c. isn=B9t the
> place to "witness" or recruit. In addition, lots of other people are Jews, Moslems, Buddhists,
> Taoists, Hindus, etc. Would s.m.c. be better or worse if they all emulated Dr. Chung in their
> proselytizing and recruiting?
>
> Furthermore, if you are a Christian, you should be appalled by Dr. Chung=B9s pharisaical, cynical,
> and manipulative use of Christianity. He is truly a "whitened sepulcher", loudly proclaiming his
> adherence to Christian values while overtly lying, carrying on smear campaigns against others,
> making false accusations, dissembling, and marketing his web site under the guise of altruism. He
> is "bearing false witness" and true Christians should be concerned.
>
> As an example, when John Ritter recently died unexpectedly, Dr. Chung rushed to use this
> unfortunate event to market his web site. He showed a total lack of Christian compassion for Mr.
> Ritter and his family, even when challenged to do so.
>
> As another example, he recently choreographed a smear campaign against
> with the same first name and then insinuated that the poster and anyone
> yourself if this the brand of Christianity you identify with.
>
> 7. Well, Why Not Just Ignore His Religious Rants?
> --------------------------------------------------
> Why should one individual be given carte blanche to violate the rights of everyone else? Usenet is
> a community. It is up to the community to sanction its members. There is nothing "ad hominem"
> about challenging inappropriate and antisocial behavior.
>
>8. But Isn=B9t It Wonderful That Dr. Chung Offers This Free
> Medical Advice Out of the Goodness of His Heart?
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> First, it is only of value if it is good advice. Medical education alone is not enough to
> guarantee good advice. Knowledge must be tempered with judgment, impartiality, integrity, ethics,
> and professionalism. If someone consistently demonstrates by their behavior that they lack these
> qualities, how much credence should be given to their medical advice?
>
> Secondly, despite his protestations to the contrary, Dr. Chung is not simply motivated by
> altruism. Every post of Dr. Chung's contains a link to a website with the following quote:
>
> "If you are looking for a cardiologist and reside in Georgia, please consider me your best
> option for a personal heart advocate. Check out my credentials and my background. Additional
> information is available in the protected sections of this web site. Email me at
> [email protected] to me of your interest and I may send you a temporary username and
> password to allow a preview. The more information you email, the more likely my decision to send
> you a temporary username and password. If you like what you see and learn from this website and
> wish to confer with me about your heart, you or your doctor should email me privately or call my
> voicemail at 404-699-2780 to schedule an appointment to see me at my *real* office."
> (http://www.heartmdphd.com/office.asp)
>
> Thirdly, Dr. Chung has repeatedly stated that one of his key motivations for participating is
> s.m.c. is to "witness" and win converts to his religious beliefs.
>
> 9. How Does a Practicing Physician Find so Much Time to Spend on Usenet?
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> An interesting question.
>
> 10. Won=B9t Challenging Dr. Chung Drive People Away?
> --------------------------------------------------
> Perhaps. But not challenging him will drive others away.
>
> s.m.c. is historically a "low traffic" group. Therefore, when Dr. Chung misbehaves, he generates
> an apparently large response. This is compounded by Dr. Chung=B9s need to "get in the last
> word" and Mu=B9s provocations. In spite of this, if someone has a question it will usually
> be answered.
>
> Dr. Chung is not the only participant who offers advice in s.m.c. He is not even the only doctor
> who participates in s.m.c. However, the controversy he generates and sustains often makes it
> appear that he is the "only game in town".
>
> Finally, Dr. Chung himself drives others away including other physicians who leave in disgust
> after being verbally assaulted by him, and other knowledgeable posters who point out where Dr.
> Chung=B9s medical opinion might be in error or at least not the only one generally held. Anyone
> disagreeing with Dr. Chung on any subject can expect a series of increasingly vitriolic attacks,
> including threats of libel suits.
>
> 11. Doesn't the "Fault" for all Those Posts Lay With Those Who Challenge Dr. Chung?
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> An interesting perspective: blame the victim. No other poster (with the exception of Mu, of
> course) introduces religion or the Two Pound Diet. How can it be acceptable for Dr. Chung to
> introduce these topics, but not acceptable for others to respond?
>
> In any thread, someone must, of necessity "get the last word".
> Dr. Chung has amply demonstrated that he will not be outdone in this respect.
>
> 12. Why Do I see So Many "Ad Hominem" Attacks?
> ----------------------------------------------
> You are probably referring to an "Ad Hominem" _argument_, which attempts to disprove an
> adversary's fact by personal attack on the adversary. An example would be "You are opposed to the
> Two Pound Diet because you are anti-Christian".
>
> When someone misbehaves, for example lies or distorts what someone else is saying, it is not an
> "ad hominem attack" to call them on it. It is a legitimate social sanction.
>
> There are also, unfortunately too often, simple personal attacks and insults on both sides. While
> we can all wish it weren't so, it is simply human nature when an argument becomes heated or the
> other person is obviously not arguing in good faith. If you are distressed by this, see the next
> question.
>
> 13. I'm Sick of Seeing All This!
> --------------------------------
> There is no reason why you have to see it. Just as you can change the TV channel if you don't like
> a show, you can killfile a poster or thread you don't want to see. See the manual that came with
> your Usenet reader for directions on how to do it.
>
> Before you do this, however, you may wish to consider if a truer picture of the world is not
> gained by seeing all that goes on - both the good and the bad.
>
> 14. What is the Two Pound Diet?
> -------------------------------
> The Two pound Diet is a diet which Dr. Chung "invented". It=B9s only rule is to restrict yourself
> to two pounds of food per day. That=B9s it. Doesn=B9t matter if you are a 16 year old girl or an
> 80 year old man; a 5=B9 2" woman or a 7=B9 man; a weight lifter or a mattress tester. Two pounds.
> That=B9s it. No more, less if you want. One size fits all.
>
> Oh, and the food? Whatever you want: two pounds of lettuce, two pounds of ice cream, two pounds of
> celery, two pounds of bacon, two pounds of chocolate, two pounds of peanuts... doesn=B9t matter.
> Mix and match. Just keep it under two pounds.
>
> Dr. Chung=B9s claim is that this magical weight of food, this universal gustatory constant will
> cause everyone to arrive at and maintain their ideal weight. His scientific basis for this
> claim: none. The proof he offers: none. Studies supporting this claim: none. Nutritional
> explanation: none. Metabolic explanation: none.
>
> And this from a doctor who expects people to take him seriously on other issues.
>
> 15. Is Discussion of the Two Pound Diet "On Topic"?
> ---------------------------------------------------
> Dr. Chung says it is because being overweight is a risk factor for heart problems and therefore
> discussion of the Two Pound Diet is On Topic. However criticism of the Two Pound Diet is Off
> Topic as is discussion of any other diet.
>
> As with religion, Dr. Chung takes every opportunity to introduce the Two Pound Diet (2PD) into any
> other thread. In addition Mu trolls other newsgroups, particularly the diet groups looking for
> opportunities to introduce the 2PD in these groups and then cross post the resulting discussion
> back to s.m.c so that Dr. Chung can disingenuously claim to be "only responding" to a cross post.
>
> Since Dr. Chung and Mu have been laughed off of these other groups and have been asked repeatedly
> not to bring up the 2PD in them, participants of these groups are understandably angered when it
> happens yet again=8A and, because of Mu=B9s cross-posting, all their anger spills back into s.m.c.
>
> Another reason for ongoing 2PD discussions is Dr. Chung=B9s habit of researching anyone who
> criticizes the 2PD and then cross-posting his responses back to other groups which the critic
> has been found to frequent. He disingenuously claims that he does this as a "convenience" to the
> critic, but his true reasons are transparent. Once again, the cross-post generates a firestorm
> in s.m.c.
>
> The bottom line is that if the Two Pound Diet is "On Topic" for anyone, it is "On Topic" for
> everyone... including it's critics. If it is "Off Topic", it should not be continually re-
> introduced by Dr. Chung.
>
> 16. Who is Mu?
> --------------
> Mu is a longtime Usenet Troll who has even merited his own FAQ. He postures as some kind of
> personal physical trainer, but who really knows? He has allied himself with Dr. Chung and serves
> as the "Bad Cop" in the Chung - Mu "Good Cop - Bad Cop" routine. He specializes in the short,
> nasty one-liner and, because unlike Dr. Chung, he has no reputation to protect, he can afford to
> be much more direct and offensive.
>
> Mu parrots an even meaner-spirited version of Dr. Chung=B9s "Christianity" and does not hesitate
> to employ anti-Semitism and homophobia in his attacks.
>
> Naturally, most people would have long ago killfiled Mu, so he changes his handle on an almost
> daily basis.
>
> 17. What is Mu=B9s Role?
> ----------------------
> Mu=B9s role is to troll other newsgroups and, when he gets a reaction, to cross post the reaction
> to s.m.c. so that Dr. Chung can disingenuously claim to be "only responding" to a cross post.
>
> Mu is also responsible for pitching softballs to Dr. Chung so he can hit them out of the park, and
> for re-introducing religion and the Two Pound Diet should the discussion flag.
>
> Finally, Mu=B9s role is to tirelessly wear down unsuspecting Dr. Chung critics, deflecting the
> blows that would otherwise be aimed at Dr. Chung. He is Dr. Chung=B9s Internet equivalent of the
> "rope-a-dope". Insults roll off him like water off a duck as do attempts to reason with him or
> even have a civil discussion.
>
> Most people have learned to ignore him and his comment is usually the last one in any thread sub-
> tree where it appears.
D
Dr. Andrew B. C
Guest
Steve <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> On Fri, 6 Feb 2004 10:03:21 -0500, Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote (in message
> <[email protected]>):
>
> > Emma Chase VanCott wrote:
> >
> >>> "the king" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>> news:[email protected]...
> >>>> Hi all this is my first post, i've been having panic attacks and i don't know what for. Can
> >>>> anyone help me?
> >>
> >> Can this happen with Mitral Valve problems?
> >>
> >> Emma
>
> <snip>
>
> <hiss>
You poor guy.
FYI Note:
Steve's pathological obsessions are related to the 2 pound diet approach (2PD) which is described
completely at:
http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtloss.asp
Though Dr. Chung invented this approach, he did not initiate the Usenet discussion(s). His
participation in this discussion(s) has been voluntary and has been conducted in the spirit of
community service. His motivation has been entirely altruistic and has arisen from his religious
beliefs as a Christian. Jesus freely gave of Himself to better the health of folks He touched:
http://www.heartmdphd.com/healer.asp
From the outset, it has been clear that there are those who are vehemently opposed to the 2 pound
diet approach. They have debated
Dr. Chung on every perceived weakness of the 2 pound diet approach and have lost the argument
soundly at every point:
http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtlossfaqs.asp
These debates are archived on Google in their entirety within this discussion thread(s).
However, instead of conceding gracefully that they've lost the argument(s), certain parties have
redirected their hatred of the 2 pound diet approach toward its author. The rationale appears to be
"if you can not discredit the message then try to discredit the messenger."
Initially, these folks accused the messenger of "trolling." A "troll" is someone who posts under the
cloak of anonymity messages with no redeeming discussion value and with the sole purpose of starting
"flame" wars.
These hateful folks lost credibility with this accusation when the following observations were made:
(1) Dr. Chung has not been posting anonymously.
(2) The 2PD has been on-topic for the Usenet discussion groups hosting the discussion(s).
(a) Those who are failing low-carbing can dovetail LC with the 2PD to achieve near-
ideal weight.
(b) Obese diabetics improve their blood glucose control when their weight becomes near-ideal.
(c) For (b) see: http://makeashorterlink.com/?V5D042C47
(3) Dr. Chung did not start the discussion(s).
(4) The 2 pound diet approach is 100% free (no profit motive).
(5) Dr. Chung's credentials are real and easily verified on-line (including jpegs of the actual
diplomas).
Full of hatred, frustration, and desperation, certain individuals have tried to attack Dr.
Chung's credentials knowing full well that they were attempting to libel him. One notable example
is Mr. Pastorio:
http://www.heartmdphd.com/libel.asp
When the full light was cast on Mr. Pastorio's libelous statements, the hateful folks hiding in the
darkness of anonymity only hissed louder in support of their fallen hero.
Fortunately, those who have been following this discussion(s) either actively or as lurkers can
easily dismiss the hisses, for what they are, using the on-line third-party resources at:
http://www.heartmdphd.com/profile.asp
where Dr. Chung's credentials can be verified many times over and libelous claims that credentials
were bought are easily and summarily debunked.
Moreover, readers need only make the following observations concerning the anon posters who continue
to hiss (ie JC Der Koenig and Mack):
(6) They are anonymous and thus they expect to have no credibility (or accountability).
(7) They are by their Usenet history courtesy of Google, unsavory characters.
(8) They have not added anything to the discussion(s) except to deliver one-sided insults.
(9) They complain about alleged cross-posts from Dr. Chung by cross-posting.
(10) They do not complain about cross-posts from folks who attack the 2PD or its author.
and conclude that these anon posters deserve only their kill file.
It is my hope that the above brings new readers of this thread up to speed.
It will remain my pleasure to continue the discussion(s) about the 2PD above the din of hissing from
the peanut gallery.
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/
--
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?W1F522557
> On Fri, 6 Feb 2004 10:03:21 -0500, Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote (in message
> <[email protected]>):
>
> > Emma Chase VanCott wrote:
> >
> >>> "the king" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>> news:[email protected]...
> >>>> Hi all this is my first post, i've been having panic attacks and i don't know what for. Can
> >>>> anyone help me?
> >>
> >> Can this happen with Mitral Valve problems?
> >>
> >> Emma
>
> <snip>
>
> <hiss>
You poor guy.
FYI Note:
Steve's pathological obsessions are related to the 2 pound diet approach (2PD) which is described
completely at:
http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtloss.asp
Though Dr. Chung invented this approach, he did not initiate the Usenet discussion(s). His
participation in this discussion(s) has been voluntary and has been conducted in the spirit of
community service. His motivation has been entirely altruistic and has arisen from his religious
beliefs as a Christian. Jesus freely gave of Himself to better the health of folks He touched:
http://www.heartmdphd.com/healer.asp
From the outset, it has been clear that there are those who are vehemently opposed to the 2 pound
diet approach. They have debated
Dr. Chung on every perceived weakness of the 2 pound diet approach and have lost the argument
soundly at every point:
http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtlossfaqs.asp
These debates are archived on Google in their entirety within this discussion thread(s).
However, instead of conceding gracefully that they've lost the argument(s), certain parties have
redirected their hatred of the 2 pound diet approach toward its author. The rationale appears to be
"if you can not discredit the message then try to discredit the messenger."
Initially, these folks accused the messenger of "trolling." A "troll" is someone who posts under the
cloak of anonymity messages with no redeeming discussion value and with the sole purpose of starting
"flame" wars.
These hateful folks lost credibility with this accusation when the following observations were made:
(1) Dr. Chung has not been posting anonymously.
(2) The 2PD has been on-topic for the Usenet discussion groups hosting the discussion(s).
(a) Those who are failing low-carbing can dovetail LC with the 2PD to achieve near-
ideal weight.
(b) Obese diabetics improve their blood glucose control when their weight becomes near-ideal.
(c) For (b) see: http://makeashorterlink.com/?V5D042C47
(3) Dr. Chung did not start the discussion(s).
(4) The 2 pound diet approach is 100% free (no profit motive).
(5) Dr. Chung's credentials are real and easily verified on-line (including jpegs of the actual
diplomas).
Full of hatred, frustration, and desperation, certain individuals have tried to attack Dr.
Chung's credentials knowing full well that they were attempting to libel him. One notable example
is Mr. Pastorio:
http://www.heartmdphd.com/libel.asp
When the full light was cast on Mr. Pastorio's libelous statements, the hateful folks hiding in the
darkness of anonymity only hissed louder in support of their fallen hero.
Fortunately, those who have been following this discussion(s) either actively or as lurkers can
easily dismiss the hisses, for what they are, using the on-line third-party resources at:
http://www.heartmdphd.com/profile.asp
where Dr. Chung's credentials can be verified many times over and libelous claims that credentials
were bought are easily and summarily debunked.
Moreover, readers need only make the following observations concerning the anon posters who continue
to hiss (ie JC Der Koenig and Mack):
(6) They are anonymous and thus they expect to have no credibility (or accountability).
(7) They are by their Usenet history courtesy of Google, unsavory characters.
(8) They have not added anything to the discussion(s) except to deliver one-sided insults.
(9) They complain about alleged cross-posts from Dr. Chung by cross-posting.
(10) They do not complain about cross-posts from folks who attack the 2PD or its author.
and conclude that these anon posters deserve only their kill file.
It is my hope that the above brings new readers of this thread up to speed.
It will remain my pleasure to continue the discussion(s) about the 2PD above the din of hissing from
the peanut gallery.
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/
--
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?W1F522557