pantani dead

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Jeff Jones, Feb 14, 2004.

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  1. BJC

    BJC New Member

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  2. Ken Papai

    Ken Papai Guest

  3. Tom Kunich

    Tom Kunich Guest

    "Ken Papai" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]_s02...
    >
    > "Oscar Mannheim" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > maybe it was all the hatred and venom from Ken Papai that killed
    Pantani,
    > > but just maybe
    >

    > know-nothing shithead.

    Calm down Ken. Even Brian felt the need to remind everyone that Pantani screwed up his own career
    when he might well have gone down into the record books on his natural ability.
     
  4. > > maybe it was all the hatred and venom from Ken Papai that killed
    Pantani,
    > > but just maybe
    >

    > know-nothing shithead.

    This is exactly what I'm talking about, unwarranted, juvenile and emotional attitudes. I remember
    when you Papai where praising Pantani (Papai always supports the winner), back in 98. You wanted to
    introduce this great cyclist to the rest of us with brisk comments like "Go Pantani, just GO". Then
    Armstrong came, and Pantani didn't pass the hematocrit test. Ken Papai was soon competing with the
    rest of the mob, who could detest Pantani the most? Exaggerated attitudes, and opinions without
    nuances, killed Marco Pantani. Ken Papai killed Pantani........but just maybe.
     
  5. Sierraman

    Sierraman Guest

    "Ken Papai" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]_s02...
    >
    > "Oscar Mannheim" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > maybe it was all the hatred and venom from Ken Papai that killed
    Pantani,
    > > but just maybe
    >

    > know-nothing shithead.

    Don't waste any keystrokes on this Ken, this is the same guy who posted a link to a virus in RBR.
    > >
    > >
    > > "Jeff Jones" <[email protected]> skrev i meddelandet
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2004/feb04/feb15news1
    > > >
    > > > This hasn't been a good day
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    >
     
  6. > Don't waste any keystrokes on this Ken, this is the same guy who posted a link to a virus in RBR.

    it was not a virus, it was a joke that I stole from another forum (alt.music.pink-floyd). The "virus
    joke" was appreciated at that forum, not here though. I received some very hateful messages via e-
    mail. I remember that one person, not Ken Papai, suggested that I should kill myself .
     
  7. Oscar Mannheim <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Exaggerated attitudes, and opinions without nuances, killed Marco Pantani. Ken Papai killed
    > Pantani........but just maybe.

    Dude,

    Pappy has hardly posted here since October. Then Pantani dies and your first thought is of ... Ken
    Papai? You are the one who is obsessed.

    Depression sucks. One fact that maybe you aren't thinking about is that it is an illness, an
    internal phenomenon. It may be amplified by outside effects, but blaming them for depression and its
    consequences is essentially misguided. It is common after a suicide for friends and acquaintances to
    blame themselves for not seeing or not helping - and less commonly, to blame others for causing the
    circumstances that led to the death. This is understandable (been there, done that) but basically
    unrealistic. It is difficult if not impossible to save someone bent on self-destruction if they
    don't want to be saved. Similarly it is difficult to kill someone just by not being nice to them.

    Few people's hands are clean in the matter of Pantani, and that includes we the fans; but your holier-than-
    thou attitude does the man's memory no honor.

    -Ben
     
  8. Howard Kveck

    Howard Kveck Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, Benjamin Weiner <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    > Oscar Mannheim <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > Exaggerated attitudes, and opinions without nuances, killed Marco Pantani. Ken Papai killed
    > > Pantani........but just maybe.
    >
    > Dude,
    >
    > Pappy has hardly posted here since October. Then Pantani dies and your first thought is of ... Ken
    > Papai? You are the one who is obsessed.
    >
    > Depression sucks. One fact that maybe you aren't thinking about is that it is an illness, an
    > internal phenomenon. It may be amplified by outside effects, but blaming them for depression and
    > its consequences is essentially misguided. It is common after a suicide for friends and
    > acquaintances to blame themselves for not seeing or not helping - and less commonly, to blame
    > others for causing the circumstances that led to the death. This is understandable (been there,
    > done that) but basically unrealistic. It is difficult if not impossible to save someone bent on
    > self-destruction if they don't want to be saved. Similarly it is difficult to kill someone just by
    > not being nice to them.
    >
    > Few people's hands are clean in the matter of Pantani, and that includes we the fans; but your holier-than-
    > thou attitude does the man's memory no honor.
    >
    > -Ben

    Well put, Ben. I want to add something to your comment "It is difficult if not impossible to
    save someone bent on self-destruction if they don't want to be saved." Sometimes it isn't a
    matter of not wanting to be saved, but one of a deeply (or even moderately) depressed person to
    not realize there is another way. One frequent thought process in depressives is that "things
    are written in stone", i.e. there -is- no other way than the way things are, and that nothing
    can change the way they are.

    --
    tanx, Howard

    "We're not laughing -at- you, we're laughing -with- you..) "But... I'm not
    laughing???" Happiness

    remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
     
  9. Jay Hill

    Jay Hill Guest

    Ken Papai wrote:
    > "Oscar Mannheim" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >
    >>maybe it was all the hatred and venom from Ken Papai that killed Pantani, but just maybe
    >
    >

    > know-nothing shithead.
    >
    Go Ken go!
     
  10. Clovis Lark

    Clovis Lark Guest

    Tom Kunich <[email protected]> wrote:
    > "Ken Papai" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]_s02...
    >>
    >> "Oscar Mannheim" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected]...
    >> > maybe it was all the hatred and venom from Ken Papai that killed
    > Pantani,
    >> > but just maybe
    >>

    >> know-nothing shithead.

    > Calm down Ken. Even Brian felt the need to remind everyone that Pantani screwed up his own career
    > when he might well have gone down into the record books on his natural ability.

    Natural ability is more than lungs and legs. The really sad thing here is that there were warning
    signs everywhere that Marco was a troubled person. Nobody intervened. At the elite level in any
    sport there is an infrastructure at work providing everything necessary to maximize results.
    Ignoring tangible mental illness in order to win a few races is inexcusable. I can't help but also
    note the vicious gossip concerning Pantani while he was alive. Kind words post mortem help nobody...
     
  11. On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Clovis Lark wrote:
    > Natural ability is more than lungs and legs. The really sad thing here is that there were warning
    > signs everywhere that Marco was a troubled person. Nobody intervened.

    Apart from his entourage, many did, to worsen his state of mind.

    Sergio Pisa
     
  12. Clovis Lark

    Clovis Lark Guest

    Sergio SERVADIO <[email protected]> wrote:
    > On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Clovis Lark wrote:
    >> Natural ability is more than lungs and legs. The really sad thing here is that there were warning
    >> signs everywhere that Marco was a troubled person. Nobody intervened.

    > Apart from his entourage, many did, to worsen his state of mind.

    Indeed. A lesson may be learned from the "one who got away". For many of us, Lance Armstrong was a
    rude cocky boy who had alienated most everyone in the peloton. However, most of us really had no
    idea who he was. We only saw race antics (we smirked when the rest of his group stopped riding in
    Atlanta, effectively denying him any chance). But following his near death, a new person emerged.
    Some of us were able to see how that person had been there all along, just obscured by youthful
    brashness. He was loyal, he had shown compassion and depth of character following Cassartelli's
    death. Unfortunately, nobody will get a chance to see that side of Pantani.

    > Sergio Pisa
     
  13. "Oscar Mannheim" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > > Don't waste any keystrokes on this Ken, this is the same guy who posted a link to a virus
    > > in RBR.
    >
    > it was not a virus, it was a joke that I stole from another forum (alt.music.pink-floyd). The
    > "virus joke" was appreciated at that forum, not here though. I received some very hateful messages
    > via e-mail. I remember that one person, not Ken Papai, suggested that I should kill myself .

    Waa! waa!

    Mr Troll, do you live under a bridge?..

    I can't believe your using this topic to score points.
     
  14. H Squared

    H Squared Guest

    Benjamin Weiner wrote:

    > (been there, done that)

    :( i'm sorry.

    hh
     
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