Patriot Act Renewal (II)?
- Thread starter davidmc
- Start date
zapper said:
Message 22 on this thread trips you up (again !).
I realise that it was a couple of days ago when you pontificated in message 22
about the death of some film maker and Hollands rush to enact your country's
legislation because of same.
dude you need to quit before you dig yourself a deeper hole...there you go again...Well...Just read, appologize and get over it will you? You are wasting my time. Notice I don't see a reference to your buddy pym....limerickman said:
So once again..I say prooove it.limerickman said:
The Dutch government declared war on Islamic terrorists yesterday as mourners gathered in Amsterdam for the cremation of the murdered film-maker Theo van Gogh.
Jan Peter Balkenende, the Dutch prime minister, said the brutal killing of van Gogh last week by a Moroccan-Dutch terrorist was a grave assault on freedom of speech and Holland's tolerant way of life. He promised a relentless crackdown on extremist cells.
The immigration minister, Rita Verdonk, unveiled plans for a law allowing the deportation of Islamic radicals even if they are Dutch citizens.
She said the intention was "to take away their Dutch passports if a person is suspected of planning or being involved in extremism or serious crimes", adding that Holland would no longer be so "naive" in dealing with its enemies.
Notice the lingo used here "no longer be so naive meaning that the death of this van gogh was a turning point... Once again no PYM....
Class dismissed...
zapper said:
Fortuyn drafted legislation calling for the deportation of Islamic people in 2001.
This predates your waffle about the death of film makers as the catalyst for the drive to enact legislation, in your message 22 on this thread.
Some advice - piecemeal half truths are all fine and well and probably tolerated in your country.
Higher standards apply to the rest of us.
Was this "legislation adopted? Was it supported by the prime minister or immigration minister? How about providing something more instead of an endless supply of "balloon juice"!limerickman said:
Sorry, no waffle here for they are not MY words..Those are words of the Prime Minister and Immigration Minister...not a dead politician...
Yes, indeed, higher standards...Like betting on the pope..thanks for the laugh....
Why declare war on islamic terrorist two years after the fact if your guy was the "catalyst"?
zapper said:
You posted message 22 here, correct ?
The Dutch Prime Minister didn't post message 22 nor Immigration Minister.
You posted that waffle about the death of a film maker to support your contention that his death acted as a catalyst to such legislation.
I have told you that the move to enatc such legislation commenced in 2001.
It was commenced by Pim Fortuyn.
zapper said:
zapper said:
I don't recall posting any messages about putting bets on who will become Pope.
I think you've confused me with Fred C.
zapper said:
As a start, trying reading about the case.
Volkert van der Graaf was not an extremist - in a political sense.
Testy today wuz the matter do you have a tinsy weensy hang over??limerickman said:
Anyway blowhard, I already know the answer... and stop pouting!
Research hahahaha you are killing me.
hey what's this???
Deputy Prime Minister Gerrit Zalm agreed with comments by other politicians who called Mr. van Gogh's slaying a declaration of Islamic jihad, or "holy war."
"We are not going to tolerate this. We are going to ratchet up the fight against this sort of terrorism," he said. "The increase in radicalization is worse than we had thought."
Among measures under consideration is an emergency law to enable authorities to revoke the Dutch nationality of dual citizens suspected of terrorist activity so that they can be deported.
Gee quizmo, I guess that pym thingy wasn't gettin much press time since they had to enact an EMERGENCY LAW You do know what the word emergency means don't you??? Now, tell us...why would they need an emergency law if your pym fellow had it all under control etc...I mean being the catalyst and all...Pity..over two years since his death and they had to come up with an emergency law??
zapper said:
Don't think you've done your research.
If you had, you'd know that Fortuyn had tabled legislation in 2001 attempting to tighten immigration to Holland.
You would also have known that Fortuyn attempted to table legislation to repeal the first article of the Dutch Constitution on discrimination, three months BEFORE he was murdered.
This story has been rolling for the past four years.
Your point is out of date and incorrect - again.
Once again none of the officials mention your buddy pym. No doubt he may have had an idea but he was not the "catalyst". READ man...wipe the spital off your RGB monitor and READ....limerickman said:
You are laughable here...EMERGENCY LEGISLATION...understand?
Stop twisting...You were wrong, now admit it.
zapper said:
Here's a report from 2002 - after Fortuyn died.
The death of Pim Fortuyn comes just nine days before Dutch national elections in which polls had predicted he would win enough seats to lead one of the country's largest parties.
Once written off by Dutch politicians and media alike, Fortuyn recently burst on to the political scene with a heady cocktail of policies which was finding favour right across the Netherlands.
The 54-year-old sociology professor was a flamboyant character who combined custom-made Italian suits and a flashy lifestyle with hard-hitting anti-immigrant views.
Professor Pim, as he liked to be called, shocked the Dutch establishment in February with a call for the repeal of the first article of the constitution which forbids discrimination.
As I said - you haven't done your research.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1971462.stm
zapper said:
And after the election in 2002 and during 2002. legislation was enacted :
The three parties which have formed a coalition government in the Netherlands have put forward a 45-page blueprint for reform.
The programme includes radical plans to tighten immigration policy - the legacy of the murdered politician Pim Fortuyn, whose fledgling party took second place in elections in mid-May.
The coalition, headed by the Christian Democrats (CDA) with the free market VVD as its third member proposes:
* A crackdown on immigration
* Deploying more police to curb crime
* Review of euthanasia law
* Moves to discourage "drug tourism"
* Shortening hospital waiting lists
* Improving public transport
* Decreasing social welfare spending
"A restrictive aliens policy is necessary and illegal immigration should be fought with vigour," the parties said.
There are three key planks:
* Obliging asylum seekers to pay a nearly 7,000 euro deposit for compulsory Dutch language and citizenship lessons
* Restrictions on bringing non-Western family members into the country
* A clamp down on businesses employing illegal immigrants
Critics point out that Dutch asylum procedures are already tough - with one in three applications rejected within 48 hours.
They add that refugees who have fled their homes will not have the money they need to pay for the lessons.
Acting against illegal labour in businesses may also prove controversial among employers in a country which has serious labour shortages in certain industries and - at 2% - very low national unemployment.
But the coalition also hopes to send more Dutch people back to work by tougher examinations of those claiming disability benefit - currently an estimated one in five of the Dutch labour force.
This is part of a more general plan to cut spending on social welfare, and thereby decrease the national debt.
Coffee shop cuts
The liberal drugs policies the Netherlands is well-known for are also in for a shake-up.
Plans include:
* Moving cannabis cafes from border areas to discourage tourists
* Ending the testing of ecstasy tablets at dance parties
Authorities had introduced such "testing stations" to ensure people were not taking drugs laced with toxic chemicals.
Jan Peter Balkenende, the new prime minister, has made clear that he takes a dim view of the sale of soft drugs, and of euthanasia, which became legal earlier this year.
The coalition says it will order a "review" of the practice of mercy killing.
Opposition parties have described the programme as superficial, unrealistic and "heartless".
"This was supposed to be new politics, but I can't find any of it," said Tom de Graaf, of the D66 party, when the programme was presented to parliament in early July.
I don’t need perform research.. You need to do more than pull a bbc article…you must prove WHY the dutch waited until the death of van Gogh to DECLARE WAR draft EMERGENCY LEGISLATION if legislation was already in place. Thus far you have not. You have not provide evidence of the Prime Minister or Immigration minister or Deputy Prime Minister declaring war on terrorism etc…All you have shown here are PROPOSALS that after almost 3 years went absolutely NOWHERE! Why? Because they needed a spark, a catalyst and that catalyst was the death of a filmmaker at the hands of an ISLAMIC EXTREMIST not a politician murdered by an ANIMAL ACTIVIST! By the way courtesy of your post they threw in :limerickman said:
“Ending the testing of ecstasy tablets at dance parties” What does that have to do with Islamic extremist?
zapper said:
actually, you do.
You've been talking through your hat for the past few hours.
zapper said:
must prove ? no one has to prove anything here, Zapper.
The links speak for themselves.
And there was me thinking that this exchange was me educating you.
Ah well.
zapper said:
The Dutch, being good people that they are, cherish the freedoms in the legislation of their country.
They cherish their tolerant society.
They don't want to concede their freedoms, unlike your country.
That is why Fortuyn's tabled legislation in February 2002, to change article one of the Dutch Constitution, was rejected.
(remember the link that I supplied to you stating that Fortuyn wanted to restrict immigration for Muslims).
The debate has been ongoing since 2001 in Holland about Muslim immigration.
You need to get with the timetable, Zapper.
Right and you’ve been blowing up balloons…I suppose you don’t need to carry any co2 cartridges with you on your ride…limerickman said:
The links don’t speak and they mention nothing about war on terrorism etc…No evidence of public outrage etc…you are incorrect.
You lack the ability to educate for you lack the ability to learn….Or..There you go thinking again…they both fit.
bla bla bla anti-American crapola, bla, bla, bla….
Well people in hell want Icewater…SHOW US THE PROOF THAT HE HAD THE SUPPORT OF THE PRIMEMINISTER, SHOW US PUBLIC OUTRAGE, show us more that what he wanted…Explain why if he “tabled” legislation in Feb of 02 that as of Nov 04 THERE WAS A NEED FOR AN EMERGENCY LAW What prompted the EMERGENCY…FORTUYN? I TYPE IN CAPS NOT OUT OF ANGER BUT IN HOPES THAT YOUR FEEBLE EYES CAN FREAKIN READ MAN…MY GOSH YOU ARE THICK…
You need new glasses…
If you look at the liberalistic attitude of Dutch society control, you will find that law is not rescinded, but rather that some sort of progression is tolerated until it gets out of hand. Contrary to general belief Brown cafes and window prostitution is not legal. It only requires the nod to get the police to clamp down. This principle is the underlying factor to society in Holland.limerickman said:
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