Paul Saunders

Discussion in 'General Fitness' started by David Gibbins, Sep 1, 2004.

  1. SteveO

    SteveO Guest

    On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 00:08:06 +0100, "Paul Saunders"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Mark South wrote:
    >
    >>> Damn! I've been sussed!

    >>
    >> Nah, nobody would believe a website that crappy would be yours.

    >
    >Well thanks for the vote of confidence.


    wotcher therealpaulsaunders; t'was easy to spot that site wasn't
    anything to do with you... the size of the jpeg on the index page for
    starters, plus I reckon you don't do cheese as per that site's
    content. Not sure how to classify "those shorts", but "cheese" isn't
    it ;-)





    SteveO

    NE Climbers & walkers chat forum;
    http://www.thenmc.org.uk/phpBB2/index.php

    NMC website: http://www.thenmc.org.uk
     


  2. Phil Cook wrote:

    > Sod off Saunders! We don't want the same old argument about the
    > seasons again.


    Sorry Phil, it was a rhetorical question, not my intention to start that
    one up again. It was just in my head because of the weather forecaster
    calling it autumn yesterday.

    > Haven't you though of anyting new to say while you have
    > been away?


    For the last month I've been trying very hard not to think of new things
    to say.

    Paul
    --
    http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
    http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk
     
  3. David Gibbins wrote:

    > If you're still communicating Paul, can you briefly suggest a Brecon
    > Beacons walk?


    What sort of distance do you want to do?

    > I've worked out
    > I need to do the Pen-y-Fan Horseshoe but will have time for one more.
    > Staying near Libanus.


    Which Pen y Fan horseshoe do you mean? From the north (Cwm Gwdi) or the
    south (Neauadd Reservoirs)? I presume the north. The northern approach
    is more dramatic scenically, but the southern approach involves a more
    high ridge walking next to steep cliffs.

    You are planning to include Cribyn aren't you? Give me some more
    details on the walk you plan to do.

    The Ultimate Beacons Walk

    Although the northern approach is more dramatic, I'd say that the best
    Beacons walk (if you want to take in all the main summits) is as
    follows. Be warned that's it's 13 miles with around 1200 metres of
    ascent, a bit too much for me at the moment, but if you feel up to it
    I'd recommend it.

    Park at the bridge over Caerfanell, SO 063170. Follow the river
    northwest, then north, past the waterfalls. A nice scenic easy start.
    (Alternatively, if you fancy an energetic start, head NNE straight up to
    the summit of Allt Forgan, a lovely little hill and a great viewpoint.)

    When you reach the end of the forest, turn east up out of the valley and
    cross Waun y Gorlan (try to avoid the bogs if you can), then ascend NNE
    up to the ridge. Follow the western edge of Cwar y Gigfran, passing
    above the plane wreck memorial, then head north to Waun Rydd. This is
    the first major summit, a Marilyn, but the least interesting since it's
    just a high point on a flat grassy plateau. There was nothing marking
    it last time I was there so you may have trouble determining exactly
    where the top is. A GPS would be helpful here.

    Head west past the insignificant Nuttall of Gwaun Cerrrig Llwydion
    (which they incorrectly call Bwlch y Ddwywallt - that's the name of the
    bwlch, i.e. the col, not the summit! Doh!) and then follow the
    excellent Craig Cwareli ridge until you reach Fan y Big, a superb
    viewpoint. Apart from the initial ascent, the walking has been very
    easy up to this point.

    Head west downhill to the col, then ascend Cribyn, which gives the best
    view of Pen y Fan. You could take the Cribyn "bypass" to avoid this
    summit but it's well worth climbing. After the descent you then climb
    to Pen y Fan. This is the last steep ascent.

    After quickly nipping over to Corn Du, you then head south, following
    the edges of Craig Gwaun Taf and Graig Fan Ddu, crossing the "blunt"
    knife-edge ridge of Rhiw yr Ysgyfarnog in the process. These ridges can
    be very muddy and boggy after a lot of rain.

    At SO 019182 (where the cairn is marked on the map), descend east. This
    bit is quite steep, but well worn. Cross the southern reservoir and the
    rest is easy.

    After a short road walk, turn SE to follow the disused railway through
    the Taf Fechan forest, then there's another short road walk up over the
    col. Turn left into the car park then follow the stream ESE back down
    to the river (there is a path of sorts, if you can find it), then follow
    the river back to the car.

    This walk can of course be done clockwise or anti-clockwise, your
    preference, and can be started from a few different points, the Neuadd
    Reservoirs for example.

    Most of the route is pretty straightforward but there are a few possible
    variations on the eastern edge of it, like the Allt Forgan ascent I
    mentioned. Another variation is to contour east past Gwalciau'r Cwm
    around Craig Pwllfa and the big cairn, instead of following Cwar y
    Gigfran. Another possibility is to follow Caerfanell all the way to
    it's source. I came down this way once in the winter and had great fun
    scrambling down next to the small frozen waterfalls.

    The best variation though, which cuts out some distance and ascent, yet
    still gives great ridge walking, is to park at SO 056175, then head
    north directly up to Craig y Fan Ddu, then follow Graig Fan Las NNE to
    the col before turning west to follow the Craig Cwareli ridge. Don't be
    tempted to take a shortcut across the moorland of Gwaun Cerrig Llwydion,
    the ridge walking is much easier and the extra distance is more than
    compensated for by the excellent views. At the col you have the option
    of walking an extra kilometre to Waun Rydd and back if you really feel
    the need to bag it.

    If you think the distance is too much for one day, you could split that
    walk up into two, east and west, so those would be your two walks.

    Alternatively, for a second walk you could go to the obvious place and
    bag the eastern Fforest Fawr summits just SW of Libanus, namely Fan
    Frynych, Craig Cerrig Gleisiad, Fan Llia and Fan Fawr. Very little in
    the way of cliff edge walking, but loads of bleak empty wilderness and
    solitude. Very little in the way of paths either, this is mostly wild,
    trackless land that few people visit, thus making a nice change to the
    bustle of nearby Pen y Fan. The northern end of the Afon Dringarth is a
    good area for wild camping if you like solitude.

    It's not a huge area to get lost in, but without paths, you'll need
    reasonable navigation skills and/or a GPS in the event of bad
    visibility. I've had some fun night walking around this area.

    If you want something more dramatic, then head west to Mynydd Du and do
    Fan Brycheiniog and the escarpment. I'm sure I've written plenty about
    this in the past. Check out my trip report from a few months ago if you
    can find it.

    > Oh, and great 'photos on the wedding site - way above your usual
    > standard!


    :)

    Paul
    --
    http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
    http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk
     
  4. Tim Jackson

    Tim Jackson Guest

    Paul Saunders wrote on Thu, 2 Sep 2004 17:49:15 +0100....
    > Park at the bridge over Caerfanell, SO 063170. Follow the river
    > northwest, then north, past the waterfalls. A nice scenic easy start.
    > (Alternatively, if you fancy an energetic start, head NNE straight up to
    > the summit of Allt Forgan, a lovely little hill and a great viewpoint.)
    >
    > When you reach the end of the forest, turn east up out of the valley and
    > cross Waun y Gorlan (try to avoid the bogs if you can), then ascend NNE
    > up to the ridge. Follow the western edge of Cwar y Gigfran, passing
    > above the plane wreck memorial, then head north to Waun Rydd.


    Rather than parking at the lower car park at SO 063170, is it possible
    to start this route from the upper car park at SO 056175? Or would
    that entail dropping down and then climbing back up again by the
    Caerfanell? There's a forestry track marked on the map which rises
    gently NE from the upper car park, but it looks as if it stops before
    it gets to the NE corner of the forest.

    --
    Tim Jackson
    [email protected]lid
    (Change '.invalid' to '.co.uk' to reply direct)
    Absurd patents: visit http://www.patent.freeserve.co.uk
     
  5. David

    David Guest

    Thanks for that , Paul - excellent.

    Your 'Ultimate walk' looks the one if the weather permits and my companions
    are feeling up to it (and if I am)!

    I was planning on walking from Libanus through Cwm Llwch, past the obelisk
    heading SE to Corn Du, then over Pen y Fan to Cribyn and heading NE
    to drop back down into the valley and head backW to Libanus. Is that not the
    'horseshoe'/

    Anyway, you've given me some great options - thanks again.


    David




    "Paul Saunders" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > David Gibbins wrote:
    >
    > > If you're still communicating Paul, can you briefly suggest a Brecon
    > > Beacons walk?

    >
    > What sort of distance do you want to do?
    >
    > > I've worked out
    > > I need to do the Pen-y-Fan Horseshoe but will have time for one more.
    > > Staying near Libanus.

    >
    > Which Pen y Fan horseshoe do you mean? From the north (Cwm Gwdi) or the
    > south (Neauadd Reservoirs)? I presume the north. The northern approach
    > is more dramatic scenically, but the southern approach involves a more
    > high ridge walking next to steep cliffs.
    >
    > You are planning to include Cribyn aren't you? Give me some more
    > details on the walk you plan to do.
    >
    > The Ultimate Beacons Walk
    >
    > Although the northern approach is more dramatic, I'd say that the best
    > Beacons walk (if you want to take in all the main summits) is as
    > follows. Be warned that's it's 13 miles with around 1200 metres of
    > ascent, a bit too much for me at the moment, but if you feel up to it
    > I'd recommend it.
    >
    > Park at the bridge over Caerfanell, SO 063170. Follow the river
    > northwest, then north, past the waterfalls. A nice scenic easy start.
    > (Alternatively, if you fancy an energetic start, head NNE straight up to
    > the summit of Allt Forgan, a lovely little hill and a great viewpoint.)
    >
    > When you reach the end of the forest, turn east up out of the valley and
    > cross Waun y Gorlan (try to avoid the bogs if you can), then ascend NNE
    > up to the ridge. Follow the western edge of Cwar y Gigfran, passing
    > above the plane wreck memorial, then head north to Waun Rydd. This is
    > the first major summit, a Marilyn, but the least interesting since it's
    > just a high point on a flat grassy plateau. There was nothing marking
    > it last time I was there so you may have trouble determining exactly
    > where the top is. A GPS would be helpful here.
    >
    > Head west past the insignificant Nuttall of Gwaun Cerrrig Llwydion
    > (which they incorrectly call Bwlch y Ddwywallt - that's the name of the
    > bwlch, i.e. the col, not the summit! Doh!) and then follow the
    > excellent Craig Cwareli ridge until you reach Fan y Big, a superb
    > viewpoint. Apart from the initial ascent, the walking has been very
    > easy up to this point.
    >
    > Head west downhill to the col, then ascend Cribyn, which gives the best
    > view of Pen y Fan. You could take the Cribyn "bypass" to avoid this
    > summit but it's well worth climbing. After the descent you then climb
    > to Pen y Fan. This is the last steep ascent.
    >
    > After quickly nipping over to Corn Du, you then head south, following
    > the edges of Craig Gwaun Taf and Graig Fan Ddu, crossing the "blunt"
    > knife-edge ridge of Rhiw yr Ysgyfarnog in the process. These ridges can
    > be very muddy and boggy after a lot of rain.
    >
    > At SO 019182 (where the cairn is marked on the map), descend east. This
    > bit is quite steep, but well worn. Cross the southern reservoir and the
    > rest is easy.
    >
    > After a short road walk, turn SE to follow the disused railway through
    > the Taf Fechan forest, then there's another short road walk up over the
    > col. Turn left into the car park then follow the stream ESE back down
    > to the river (there is a path of sorts, if you can find it), then follow
    > the river back to the car.
    >
    > This walk can of course be done clockwise or anti-clockwise, your
    > preference, and can be started from a few different points, the Neuadd
    > Reservoirs for example.
    >
    > Most of the route is pretty straightforward but there are a few possible
    > variations on the eastern edge of it, like the Allt Forgan ascent I
    > mentioned. Another variation is to contour east past Gwalciau'r Cwm
    > around Craig Pwllfa and the big cairn, instead of following Cwar y
    > Gigfran. Another possibility is to follow Caerfanell all the way to
    > it's source. I came down this way once in the winter and had great fun
    > scrambling down next to the small frozen waterfalls.
    >
    > The best variation though, which cuts out some distance and ascent, yet
    > still gives great ridge walking, is to park at SO 056175, then head
    > north directly up to Craig y Fan Ddu, then follow Graig Fan Las NNE to
    > the col before turning west to follow the Craig Cwareli ridge. Don't be
    > tempted to take a shortcut across the moorland of Gwaun Cerrig Llwydion,
    > the ridge walking is much easier and the extra distance is more than
    > compensated for by the excellent views. At the col you have the option
    > of walking an extra kilometre to Waun Rydd and back if you really feel
    > the need to bag it.
    >
    > If you think the distance is too much for one day, you could split that
    > walk up into two, east and west, so those would be your two walks.
    >
    > Alternatively, for a second walk you could go to the obvious place and
    > bag the eastern Fforest Fawr summits just SW of Libanus, namely Fan
    > Frynych, Craig Cerrig Gleisiad, Fan Llia and Fan Fawr. Very little in
    > the way of cliff edge walking, but loads of bleak empty wilderness and
    > solitude. Very little in the way of paths either, this is mostly wild,
    > trackless land that few people visit, thus making a nice change to the
    > bustle of nearby Pen y Fan. The northern end of the Afon Dringarth is a
    > good area for wild camping if you like solitude.
    >
    > It's not a huge area to get lost in, but without paths, you'll need
    > reasonable navigation skills and/or a GPS in the event of bad
    > visibility. I've had some fun night walking around this area.
    >
    > If you want something more dramatic, then head west to Mynydd Du and do
    > Fan Brycheiniog and the escarpment. I'm sure I've written plenty about
    > this in the past. Check out my trip report from a few months ago if you
    > can find it.
    >
    > > Oh, and great 'photos on the wedding site - way above your usual
    > > standard!

    >
    > :)
    >
    > Paul
    > --
    > http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
    > http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk
    >
    >
     
  6. Tim Jackson wrote:

    > Rather than parking at the lower car park at SO 063170, is it possible
    > to start this route from the upper car park at SO 056175?


    You could.

    > Or would
    > that entail dropping down and then climbing back up again by the
    > Caerfanell?


    It would.

    > There's a forestry track marked on the map which rises
    > gently NE from the upper car park, but it looks as if it stops before
    > it gets to the NE corner of the forest.


    I've often wondered about that, but I haven't tried it. All scales of
    map confirm that it stops, even Harveys.

    I recall looking at it from Allt Forgan a few years back and I think the
    forest had been recently cleared at the time, so it may have been
    navigable, but I'm not sure what the current state is. I'm pretty sure
    I took a photograph for later study but I've had a quick look and can't
    find it without a longer search.

    The reason I suggested starting from the lower car park is because the
    walk up the river past the waterfalls is rather good. No need to be so
    obsessed with the summit bagging to miss the waterfalls. I know it
    means extra ascent but I think it's worth it. If summit bagging is more
    important then I'd recommend the steep ascent to Allt Forgan right at
    the beginning. You'd still pass many of the falls on the way back.

    If you really want to minimise the ascent then the Craig y Fan Ddu
    variation is better.

    Paul
    --
    http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
    http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk
     
  7. David wrote:

    > Your 'Ultimate walk' looks the one if the weather permits and my
    > companions are feeling up to it (and if I am)!


    Start early and take your time over it. If it's a hot day don't forget
    to carry plenty of water, I made that mistake when I did it.

    > I was planning on walking from Libanus through Cwm Llwch, past the
    > obelisk heading SE to Corn Du, then over Pen y Fan to Cribyn and
    > heading NE
    > to drop back down into the valley and head backW to Libanus. Is that
    > not the 'horseshoe'/


    I don't think I've ever seen an official description, but I thought it
    started at Cwm Gwdi and followed the Cefn Cwm Llwch and Bryn Teg ridges,
    but I may be wrong. There are a few different possible "horseshoe"
    variations, it's not as clear cut as the Snowdon horseshoe for example.

    My own personal horseshoe always started from the south at the Neuadd
    Reservoirs, that's the route I've done most often, a shorter "western"
    version of the ultimate walk.

    > Anyway, you've given me some great options - thanks again.


    No problem. Any thoughts on Fforest Fawr or Mynydd Du?

    Paul
    --
    http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
    http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk
     
  8. Paul wrote:

    Any thoughts on Fforest Fawr or Mynydd Du?

    -

    Yes, I looked at the 'photos on your site. Spoilt for choice now!

    Fan Brycheiniog looks a strong possibility. Might have to try to squeeze in
    an extra day.


    David
     
  9. On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 08:11:58 +0000 (UTC), "David Gibbins"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >If you're still communicating Paul, can you briefly


    The answer would appear to be 'no' ;-)
     
  10. Mark South

    Mark South Guest

    "Simon Caldwell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 08:11:58 +0000 (UTC), "David Gibbins"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >If you're still communicating Paul, can you briefly

    >
    > The answer would appear to be 'no' ;-)


    Yes, it's all or nothing I'm afraid :)
     
  11. Gordon

    Gordon Guest

    Simon Caldwell <[email protected]> wrote
    >On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 08:11:58 +0000 (UTC), "David Gibbins"
    ><[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>If you're still communicating Paul, can you briefly

    >
    >The answer would appear to be 'no' ;-)


    :)
    --
    Gordon
     
  12. David

    David Guest

    No, he replied - see below

    ---
    "Gordon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Simon Caldwell <[email protected]> wrote
    > >On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 08:11:58 +0000 (UTC), "David Gibbins"
    > ><[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > >>
    > >>If you're still communicating Paul, can you briefly

    > >
    > >The answer would appear to be 'no' ;-)

    >
    > :)
    > --
    > Gordon


    =====

    David wrote:

    > Your 'Ultimate walk' looks the one if the weather permits and my
    > companions are feeling up to it (and if I am)!


    Start early and take your time over it. If it's a hot day don't forget
    to carry plenty of water, I made that mistake when I did it.

    > I was planning on walking from Libanus through Cwm Llwch, past the
    > obelisk heading SE to Corn Du, then over Pen y Fan to Cribyn and
    > heading NE
    > to drop back down into the valley and head backW to Libanus. Is that
    > not the 'horseshoe'/


    I don't think I've ever seen an official description, but I thought it
    started at Cwm Gwdi and followed the Cefn Cwm Llwch and Bryn Teg ridges,
    but I may be wrong. There are a few different possible "horseshoe"
    variations, it's not as clear cut as the Snowdon horseshoe for example.

    My own personal horseshoe always started from the south at the Neuadd
    Reservoirs, that's the route I've done most often, a shorter "western"
    version of the ultimate walk.

    > Anyway, you've given me some great options - thanks again.


    No problem. Any thoughts on Fforest Fawr or Mynydd Du?

    Paul
    --
    http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
    http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk
     
  13. David

    David Guest

    No, he replied - see below

    ---
    "Gordon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Simon Caldwell <[email protected]> wrote
    > >On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 08:11:58 +0000 (UTC), "David Gibbins"
    > ><[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > >>
    > >>If you're still communicating Paul, can you briefly

    > >
    > >The answer would appear to be 'no' ;-)

    >
    > :)
    > --
    > Gordon


    =====

    David wrote:

    > Your 'Ultimate walk' looks the one if the weather permits and my
    > companions are feeling up to it (and if I am)!


    Start early and take your time over it. If it's a hot day don't forget
    to carry plenty of water, I made that mistake when I did it.

    > I was planning on walking from Libanus through Cwm Llwch, past the
    > obelisk heading SE to Corn Du, then over Pen y Fan to Cribyn and
    > heading NE
    > to drop back down into the valley and head backW to Libanus. Is that
    > not the 'horseshoe'/


    I don't think I've ever seen an official description, but I thought it
    started at Cwm Gwdi and followed the Cefn Cwm Llwch and Bryn Teg ridges,
    but I may be wrong. There are a few different possible "horseshoe"
    variations, it's not as clear cut as the Snowdon horseshoe for example.

    My own personal horseshoe always started from the south at the Neuadd
    Reservoirs, that's the route I've done most often, a shorter "western"
    version of the ultimate walk.

    > Anyway, you've given me some great options - thanks again.


    No problem. Any thoughts on Fforest Fawr or Mynydd Du?

    Paul
    --
    http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
    http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk
     
  14. W. D. Grey

    W. D. Grey Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, David
    <[email protected]> writes
    >
    >I don't think I've ever seen an official description, but I thought it
    >started at Cwm Gwdi and followed the Cefn Cwm Llwch and Bryn Teg ridges,
    >but I may be wrong.


    This sounds about right. Some lovely ridges there.
    --
    Bill Grey
    http://www.billboy.co.uk
     
  15. Jim Ford

    Jim Ford Guest

    * The air of uk.rec.walking was filled with the delicate perfume
    * of violets, as David <[email protected]> descended on a shaft
    * of golden sunlight, and announced:

    >> I was planning on walking from Libanus through Cwm Llwch, past the
    >> obelisk heading SE to Corn Du, then over Pen y Fan to Cribyn and
    >> heading NE


    The 'obelisk' is marked a such on the map, but it's much more than that.
    When I went to investigate last year, it turned out to be a memorial to a
    lad (IIRC 5 years old - David Jones?) that got lost and died there. The
    memorial gives a moving account of the tradgedy.

    Regards: Jim Ford
     
  16. Tim Jackson

    Tim Jackson Guest

    Jim Ford wrote on 4 Sep 2004 21:54:00 GMT....
    > David <[email protected]>....
    > >> I was planning on walking from Libanus through Cwm Llwch, past the
    > >> obelisk heading SE to Corn Du, then over Pen y Fan to Cribyn and
    > >> heading NE

    >
    > The 'obelisk' is marked a such on the map, but it's much more than that.
    > When I went to investigate last year, it turned out to be a memorial to a
    > lad (IIRC 5 years old - David Jones?) that got lost and died there. The
    > memorial gives a moving account of the tradgedy.


    Tommy Jones.

    The inscription on the obelisk reads, "This obelisk marks the spot
    where the body of Tommy Jones, aged 5, was found. He lost his way
    between Cwm Llwch farm and the Login on the night of August 4th 1900.
    After an anxious search of 29 days his remains were discovered on
    September 1st. Erected by voluntary subscription."

    [From http://www.walkscene.co.uk/Wales/Brecons/Penyfan3zz.htm
    One of a number of references found by searching Google for "Tommy
    Jones Obelisk"]

    --
    Tim Jackson
    [email protected]lid
    (Change '.invalid' to '.co.uk' to reply direct)
    Absurd patents: visit http://www.patent.freeserve.co.uk
     
  17. Ferlas Mor

    Ferlas Mor Guest

    "Tim Jackson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > Tommy Jones.
    >
    > The inscription on the obelisk reads, "This obelisk marks the spot
    > where the body of Tommy Jones, aged 5, was found. He lost his way
    > between Cwm Llwch farm and the Login on the night of August 4th 1900.
    > After an anxious search of 29 days his remains were discovered on
    > September 1st. Erected by voluntary subscription."
    >
    > [From http://www.walkscene.co.uk/Wales/Brecons/Penyfan3zz.htm
    > One of a number of references found by searching Google for "Tommy
    > Jones Obelisk"]
    >
    > --
    > Tim Jackson


    Conjecture I know but it has been widely believed for many years now that
    the story, as related on the obelisk, is a falsehood.

    Tommy was visiting Cwm Llwch farm with his parents on a trip from the coal
    mining valleys when he disappeared. The farm and the Login are just a
    virtually level 400m apart. The spot where his body was eventually found is
    some 3k away, entailing a stiffish climb of some 450m over rough ground.
    Those that have climbed Pen y Fan from Cwm Llwch will appreciate what a pull
    for a lost 5 year old it must have been.

    He disappeared in good weather at the beginning of a relatively decent
    August, weatherwise, not in the depths of mid winter, and the hills were
    scoured by search parties before his body was eventually discovered at a
    spot that had been passed by some of these parties on numerous occasions.

    Wander away from the path leading to Llyn Cwm Llwch from the farm and at SO
    000228 you come across the remains of a military rifle range which was
    active from the Boer War until the end of WW1. There was a military
    encampment set up here during the summer months, when it was constantly
    manned, soldiers from the camp were actively involved in the search on a
    more or less daily basis. Yet Tommy's body remained undiscovered for the
    best part of a month.

    It is firmly believed that young Tommy was abducted by the proverbial
    "person or persons unknown" and his body eventually disposed of at the spot
    where the obelisk was originally located, closer to the edge of the ridge
    than where it is now.

    Absolutely no proof of course but the shadow of suspicion falls firmly on
    the occupants of the camp.


    --
    Gwyn
    Reply to:- urw(dot)mail(dot)gwyn(at)xoxy(dot)net
     
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