Pavement Cycling



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Simon wrote:
>>Was also stopped by a policeman who told me to get on the road. I just told him its a cycle lane
>>and carried on going. This bike lane passes a busy bus stop where the people just stand in the
>>bike lane or worse still walk backwards into it.
>
>
> I've given up with shared paths. Unless they really are proper routes, I just stick to the road.
>
> Simonb
>
>

I would use the road but at this point of journey the council has put islands in the road that
restrict the lane to just enough for a car. Most drivers will try to get through these at the same
time as a cyclist. Not a big problem when on my full suspension MTB as the curb can be mounted
quickly enough to get out of danger. But on my new Giant OCR I am not prepared to do this for the
sake of the frame and the wheels. On my last road bike I had to replace the rear wheel when a car
forced my down a drain. Blew the tyre and dented the wheel rim quite badly. The council is barking
and dagenham and they are doing these type of things all over. Anyone that cycles along Longbridge
road or the HighRoad from Romford to Ilford the worst section being from Goodmayes to Seven Kings
will know.

Ivor Cave
 
Richard Goodman wrote:

> Doesn't alter the fact that there are clues which indicate the possible presence of bikes on
> that part of the pavement, so they shouldn't be surprised if they find a cyclist there and ought
> to give reasonable consideration for the fact that is other, more suitable space for their
> exclusive use. For that matter they also walk in segrated bike lanes on the road, which clearly
> are "bike lanes" for bikes. To some peds though, it seems, anywhere where cars can't go is for
> them, irrespective of any concerns for their own safety or the danger or inconvenience it may
> pose for others.
>
> Rich
>
>

Here Here. The pedestrian part is four to five times the width of the cycle part. But still everyone
walks in the cycle part and is suprized to see a bike.

Ivor Cave
 
"David Hansen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 15 Jun 2003 06:08:58 +0000 (UTC) someone who may be "Peter B" <[email protected]>
> wrote this:-
>
> >IME peds wander all over the place at the best of times (me included on a ped only paths). Ally
> >this to the fact they don't usually expect cyclists
on
> >the pavement, which as far as I'm concerned is the peds domain to wander about in, and you are
> >bound to irritate or shock if not injure.
>
> They behave and react in this way on cycle paths, where the little blue signs with cycles on them
> might just give them a clue to expect cyclists.

Yes. I've been told to "Get on the road" by a member of a group of peds in a cycle lane on one of
the few occasions I've used one. Sometimes you can't win :-(

Pete
 
In news:[email protected], Ivor Cave <[email protected]> typed:
>
> I don't walk in the road and swear at cars that are trying to drive along the road. I use the
> pavement. These shared paths have a wide section for peds about a lane of a normal road. The cycle
> path is only enough for two cycles to pass. Why walk in it?
>

No but I bet you object to drivers who swear at cyclists to get off the road because there's a
perfectly good cycle path they should use. Same logic, why cycle on the road and impede motorists?

Tony

--
http://www.raven-family.com

"All truth goes through three steps: First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed.
Finally, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer
 
Tony Raven wrote:

> In news:[email protected], John B <[email protected]> typed:
> >
> > Didn't get the number, but County Landscapes will not get any business from me.
> >
>
> Why not write and tell them?

I've been trying to trace them. I didn't fully see the rest of the details but there was a reference
to Romsey, so I doubt whether your contact below is correct. The incident was near Winchester -
which has a Romsey Road with a County Hospital, and also Romsey is in Hampshire.

Thanks for trying tho' and I certainly will write if I do find out where these morons came from.

> tel: 01903 782277, mobile: 07973 662772 http://www.countylandscapes.com/ e-mail:
> [email protected]

John B
 
On Sat, 14 Jun 2003 18:33:19 +0100, "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> wrote:

>I've been on my soap box again...
>
><http://www.chapmancentral.com/Web/public.nsf/Documents/Pavement_Cycling>
>
>======================================================================
>
>Cyclists have been known to ride on the pavement and this occasionally brings them into conflict
>with pedestrians. This conflict has been known to cause injury and even, in very rare cases, death.
>Pavement cycling is therefore another of the motorist's list of cyclist infractions, used to
>self-justify a lack of care towards cyclists on the road.

as a biker i use the road or push the bike on pavement if i have to. i have also been run down and
concussed after a biker hit me on the pavement. he shot off . if you are run down by a bike from
side on as i was its like being hit by a sack of potatoes. not only bruises but shock as well. for
an elderly person it could be fatal. i would like to see 1000 pound fines for pavement bikers.
 
Tony Raven wrote:
> In news:[email protected], Ivor Cave <[email protected]> typed:
>
>>I don't walk in the road and swear at cars that are trying to drive along the road. I use the
>>pavement. These shared paths have a wide section for peds about a lane of a normal road. The cycle
>>path is only enough for two cycles to pass. Why walk in it?
>>
>
>
> No but I bet you object to drivers who swear at cyclists to get off the road because there's a
> perfectly good cycle path they should use. Same logic, why cycle on the road and impede motorists?
>
> Tony
>

Cycling on the road is the proper way to cycle? Or am I confused here?

Ivor Cave
 
On Sun, 15 Jun 2003 12:48:29 +0100, Ivor Cave <[email protected]> wrote:

>I would use the road but at this point of journey the council has put islands in the road that
>restrict the lane to just enough for a car. Most drivers will try to get through these at the same
>time as a cyclist.

These restrictions don't work at all as traffic calming measures unless they are so narrow that a
bus can't get through them - God knows why councils persist in doing this.

The only solution is to adopt the primary riding position - or "take the lane" as our American
cousins put it.

>The council is barking

I'll say :)

Guy
===
** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. http://www.chapmancentral.com Advance
notice: ADSL service in process of transfer to a new ISP. Obviously there will be a week of downtime
between the engineer removing the BT service and the same engineer connecting the same equipment on
the same line in the same exchange and billing it to the new ISP.
 
Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:

> The only solution is to adopt the primary riding position - or "take the lane" as our American
> cousins put it.
>
>
>>The council is barking
>
>
> I'll say :)
>

I find taking the whole lane a touch dangerous unless you get to about 30mph first.

Ivor Cave
 
In news:[email protected], Ivor Cave <[email protected]> typed:
>
> Cycling on the road is the proper way to cycle? Or am I confused here?
>

Yes you are. Cyclists are entitled to ride on the roads without being shouted out because there is a
cyclepath nearby they could be using. Pedestrians are entitled to walk on shared use pavements
without being shouted at because there is a "non-shared use" part nearby they could be using. The
pedestrian complained about had as much right to walk on the "bike path" as cyclists have to cycle
on the road.

Tony

--
http://www.raven-family.com

"All truth goes through three steps: First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed.
Finally, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer
 
John B wrote:

> Riding home from the Winchester Bike Fair yesterday a van driver overtook yelling abuse and
> pointing that I should ride on the cycle path (shared use, poorly maintained, on opposite side of
> road, and facing traffic).

I'm in Southampton. You have some excellent roads around Arlesford, Bishops Waltham and generally in
that direction. I do a 40 miler to Arlesford and back (to St Denys). The worst part of the route is
from Botley to Southampton city limits (A334). I cannot see an alternative route.

Simonb
 
On Sun, 15 Jun 2003 18:38:33 +0100, Ivor Cave <[email protected]> wrote:

>> The only solution is to adopt the primary riding position - or "take the lane" as our American
>> cousins put it.

>I find taking the whole lane a touch dangerous unless you get to about 30mph first.

The technique used to move from the secondary to the primary riding position while in a stream of
traffic is usually referred to as "negotiation" and is described in John Franklin's excellent book
Cyclecraft.

It is a good deal safer than hopping onto the pavement, or allowing the cagers to try to squeeze
through. Yesterday I had one try it on
me: he decided to stop rather than run headlong into the traffic island. Had he cut sideways I had
sufficient room to brake and avoid him, because I was riding in the primary riding position.
Once we were past the obstruction he overtook immediately. And of course stopped immediately at
the back of a trafic jam, so I waved as I rode past less than twenty seconds later :-D

Guy
===
** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. http://www.chapmancentral.com Advance
notice: ADSL service in process of transfer to a new ISP. Obviously there will be a week of downtime
between the engineer removing the BT service and the same engineer connecting the same equipment on
the same line in the same exchange and billing it to the new ISP.
 
Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
>Yesterday I had one try it on
> me: he decided to stop rather than run headlong into the traffic island.

I used this technique with a flatbed lorry once. It works. Only the lorry went the **other** side
of the island. Needless to say, I caught up with him at the next set of lights. I looked over to
him and he had this big grin on his face like he'd just pulled off some really smart maneuvre
(sp?). I complimented him with a sarcastic "Nice move!", which went straight over the primate's
peanut-sized head.

Simonb
 
On Sat, 14 Jun 2003 18:33:19 +0100, "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> wrote:

>I've been on my soap box again...
>
><http://www.chapmancentral.com/Web/public.nsf/Documents/Pavement_Cycling>
>

Hi Guy

I've yet to read your rant but just to get you more angry and ready to fall off your soap box here's
a clip from your most favourite weekend newspaper: The Mail on Sunday ;-)

Have a peek at <http://homepage.ntlworld.com/c.butty/MOS.jpg> - crookedly scanned.

James

--
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/c.butty/Dscf0632.jpg
 
"Simon" <sbennettatwiderworlddotcodotuk> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > Was also stopped by a policeman who told me to get on the road. I just told him its a cycle lane
> > and carried on going. This bike lane passes a busy bus stop where the people just stand in the
> > bike lane or worse still walk backwards into it.
>
> I've given up with shared paths. Unless they really are proper routes, I just stick to the road.
>

I sympathise with that.

Really cycle paths should be roads from which motor vehicles are prohibited, and should look like
roads to pedestrians (i.e. lower than the footpath).
 
Simonb wrote:

> John B wrote:
>
> > Riding home from the Winchester Bike Fair yesterday a van driver overtook yelling abuse and
> > pointing that I should ride on the cycle path (shared use, poorly maintained, on opposite side
> > of road, and facing traffic).
>
> I'm in Southampton. You have some excellent roads around Arlesford, Bishops Waltham and generally
> in that direction. I do a 40 miler to Arlesford and back (to St Denys). The worst part of the
> route is from Botley to Southampton city limits (A334). I cannot see an alternative route.

The route I'm describing is the shared path northwards alongside Worthy Road from Winchester to
King's Worthy. It is fairly narrow and crosses several entrances to other premises. It is certainly
safer to be on the road.

I'm not that aquainted with the Botley/Southampton area as I generally tend to avoid it. Southampton
to Portsmouth is now just one big urban sprawl:-( (I spent some of my very early years living on a
Strawberry Farm in Titchfield and being taken on the cross bar of my Dad's bike to Lee-on-Solent and
other wonderful coastal resorts).

I do know the winchester alresford area well though - and especially the Flowepots :)) where i've
cyce-camped many times.

BTW isn't it 'Alresford'?

I see 'Arlesford' quoted in many places; where does it come from?

John B
 
Tony Raven wrote:
> In news:[email protected], Ivor Cave <[email protected]> typed:
>
>>Cycling on the road is the proper way to cycle? Or am I confused here?
>>
>
>
> Yes you are. Cyclists are entitled to ride on the roads without being shouted out because there is
> a cyclepath nearby they could be using. Pedestrians are entitled to walk on shared use pavements
> without being shouted at because there is a "non-shared use" part nearby they could be using. The
> pedestrian complained about had as much right to walk on the "bike path" as cyclists have to cycle
> on the road.
>
> Tony
>

Maybe but common sense should tell most people to walk on the footpath section rather than the
clearly marked cycle lane. Quite often you have to leave the cycle lane to pass pedestrians. On to
the footpath which a cyclist is not allowed to do. Should a pedestrian force a cyclist to commit
an offence? When riding my bike on the road I don't force cars on to the pavement I make room for
them to pass.

Ivor Cave
 
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