Pay-to-play in US pro racing?

[[email protected]]

I recently heard that team members of a US pro team basically each pay
$10K upon signing. They also each buy a new team bike at full
price...$4K. Their hotels and airfares are then covered for the season.


Seems like a weird set-up. Anyone hear of such a thing? Is it common
today?

I suppose that this is the lower tier of this particular team. Maybe
what happens is that a manager then pools the money and uses it to set
up a season and pays for all travel and lodging in advance. So that
even though everyone is paying their own way they are committed in
advance and thus are in effect forced to be a team.

It's like, there's no sponsor money, so if everyone pitches in, we can
have a pro team, so why not do it.

It's a little weird because pro usually means being paid to ride rather
than paying to ride.
Anyone know more about this approach to being a pro?

--JP

 

[MagillaGorilla]

[email protected] wrote:
> I recently heard that team members of a US pro team basically each pay
> $10K upon signing. They also each buy a new team bike at full
> price...$4K. Their hotels and airfares are then covered for the season.
>
>
> Seems like a weird set-up. Anyone hear of such a thing? Is it common
> today?
>
> I suppose that this is the lower tier of this particular team. Maybe
> what happens is that a manager then pools the money and uses it to set
> up a season and pays for all travel and lodging in advance. So that
> even though everyone is paying their own way they are committed in
> advance and thus are in effect forced to be a team.
>
> It's like, there's no sponsor money, so if everyone pitches in, we can
> have a pro team, so why not do it.
>
> It's a little weird because pro usually means being paid to ride rather
> than paying to ride.
> Anyone know more about this approach to being a pro?
>
> --JP
>


Dear Jeffrey,

It's called Team Subway (aka -$20k dreamers). It's a fake pro team with
fake results to match.

It's just a matter of time before that fat pig Jared is on the team.

As for the pay-to-play jargon, that's exactly what it is. Except most of
the money goes into Rene Wenzel's checking account instead of the
riders' accounts.

This "pro" team will be the source of a lot of comedy material here on
RBR. It's actually funnier than team Noble House in many ways.

Magilla

 

[Philip W. Moore, Jr.]

ManginaMonkey,

I am proud of you for responding to a post without first writing "Dumbass"
as the greeting. I am proud of you.

-Philip

"MagillaGorilla" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] wrote:
> > I recently heard that team members of a US pro team basically each pay
> > $10K upon signing. They also each buy a new team bike at full
> > price...$4K. Their hotels and airfares are then covered for the season.
> >
> >
> > Seems like a weird set-up. Anyone hear of such a thing? Is it common
> > today?
> >
> > I suppose that this is the lower tier of this particular team. Maybe
> > what happens is that a manager then pools the money and uses it to set
> > up a season and pays for all travel and lodging in advance. So that
> > even though everyone is paying their own way they are committed in
> > advance and thus are in effect forced to be a team.
> >
> > It's like, there's no sponsor money, so if everyone pitches in, we can
> > have a pro team, so why not do it.
> >
> > It's a little weird because pro usually means being paid to ride rather
> > than paying to ride.
> > Anyone know more about this approach to being a pro?
> >
> > --JP
> >
>
>
> Dear Jeffrey,
>
> It's called Team Subway (aka -$20k dreamers). It's a fake pro team with
> fake results to match.
>
> It's just a matter of time before that fat pig Jared is on the team.
>
> As for the pay-to-play jargon, that's exactly what it is. Except most of
> the money goes into Rene Wenzel's checking account instead of the
> riders' accounts.
>
> This "pro" team will be the source of a lot of comedy material here on
> RBR. It's actually funnier than team Noble House in many ways.
>
> Magilla

 

[Goggles Paesan]

Nobel House? Now there's a name I haven't heard in a long time. A few good guy's got burned pretty good in that one. Curious, What ever happened to thoes deadbeats who started that "TEAM"?

ManginaMonkey,

I am proud of you for responding to a post without first writing "Dumbass"
as the greeting. I am proud of you.

-Philip

"MagillaGorilla" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] wrote:
> > I recently heard that team members of a US pro team basically each pay
> > $10K upon signing. They also each buy a new team bike at full
> > price...$4K. Their hotels and airfares are then covered for the season.
> >
> >
> > Seems like a weird set-up. Anyone hear of such a thing? Is it common
> > today?
> >
> > I suppose that this is the lower tier of this particular team. Maybe
> > what happens is that a manager then pools the money and uses it to set
> > up a season and pays for all travel and lodging in advance. So that
> > even though everyone is paying their own way they are committed in
> > advance and thus are in effect forced to be a team.
> >
> > It's like, there's no sponsor money, so if everyone pitches in, we can
> > have a pro team, so why not do it.
> >
> > It's a little weird because pro usually means being paid to ride rather
> > than paying to ride.
> > Anyone know more about this approach to being a pro?
> >
> > --JP
> >
>
>
> Dear Jeffrey,
>
> It's called Team Subway (aka -$20k dreamers). It's a fake pro team with
> fake results to match.
>
> It's just a matter of time before that fat pig Jared is on the team.
>
> As for the pay-to-play jargon, that's exactly what it is. Except most of
> the money goes into Rene Wenzel's checking account instead of the
> riders' accounts.
>
> This "pro" team will be the source of a lot of comedy material here on
> RBR. It's actually funnier than team Noble House in many ways.
>
> Magilla

 

[[email protected]]

MagillaGorilla wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> > I recently heard that team members of a US pro team basically each
pay
> > $10K upon signing. They also each buy a new team bike at full
> > price...$4K. Their hotels and airfares are then covered for the
season.
> >
> >
> > Seems like a weird set-up. Anyone hear of such a thing? Is it
common
> > today?
> >
> > I suppose that this is the lower tier of this particular team.
Maybe
> > what happens is that a manager then pools the money and uses it to
set
> > up a season and pays for all travel and lodging in advance. So that
> > even though everyone is paying their own way they are committed in
> > advance and thus are in effect forced to be a team.
> >
> > It's like, there's no sponsor money, so if everyone pitches in, we
can
> > have a pro team, so why not do it.
> >
> > It's a little weird because pro usually means being paid to ride
rather
> > than paying to ride.
> > Anyone know more about this approach to being a pro?
> >
> > --JP
> >
>
>
> Dear Jeffrey,
>
> It's called Team Subway (aka -$20k dreamers). It's a fake pro team
with
> fake results to match.
>
> It's just a matter of time before that fat pig Jared is on the team.
>
> As for the pay-to-play jargon, that's exactly what it is. Except most
of
> the money goes into Rene Wenzel's checking account instead of the
> riders' accounts.
>
> This "pro" team will be the source of a lot of comedy material here
on
> RBR. It's actually funnier than team Noble House in many ways.
>
> Magilla


The "pay to play" concept is new to Subway this season. In a nutshell,
it's an opportunity for the team to increase it's budget for the 2005
season via an investment in the bicycle (which is the rider's property
from day one) by the athlete. I can comfortably assure that not a dime
is going into Rene's bank account as pure profit. You may not be aware,
but alot of us continue working within cycling because we love it; not
because it's a financial goldmine.

This concept is a great opportunity for those riders wishing to step
into the professional ranks that may not have the results needed to
slot into a supported position with another UCI Continental team. When
it's all said and done, Subway will have a better budget than the
majority of Conti' teams out there and as good, if not better,
logistical support at NRC and UCI races.

Through a small $4500 fee (not $10,000 - $20,000 as stated), qualified
riders (must be Cat 1 or USPRO and meet the final selection criteria)
are provided a "bridging" opportunity that should allow a smoother
transition and "ease of assimilation" into the professional ranks via
strong support and guidance through the murky and dank US domestic
scene.

I know these guys and they're not weekend warriors looking to play the
"psuedo-pro" role in the NRC, boozin' it up after the race talking
about how f'n cool they looked riding with the big guys.

These are guys working their asses off putting in 30+ hour training
weeks in an effort to take a real shot at moving up in the ranks. One
of the most difficult aspects of being a professional rider is
inadequate or nonexistent support while on the road and at the big
races. This lack of support can be the difference between being forever
stuck as a nobody ****** and making into the paying-professional ranks.


A good team is everything and I'm pretty confident that after the shots
have been taken and the laughter dies down, a lot of "domestic pros"
are going to wake up to the realization that Subway riders are getting
better support and being treated more like professionals than they
could dream of in their current set ups.

Hey man, why fault the rider looking to invest in his future? I've had
to do it and so have many others. We've all got to start somewhere...
Erin Hartwell

 

[TritonRider]

>From: [email protected]

>A good team is everything and I'm pretty confident that after the shots
>have been taken and the laughter dies down, a lot of "domestic pros"
>are going to wake up to the realization that Subway riders are getting
>better support and being treated more like professionals than they
>could dream of in their current set ups.
>
>Hey man, why fault the rider looking to invest in his future? I've had
>to do it and so have many others. We've all got to start somewhere...
>Erin Hartwell

Now let's see, we've got an opinion from someone who knows how to do it, and
has. Then we have Magilla, whichever Philly area one he is, that is a complete
nobody.
Duh, tough to figure out who's opinion is worth more. Kinda like me trying to
tell Andy how to do Sports Medicine and testing. 'Cept I'm not that ignorant.
(FWIW I don't think Magilla is either he just get's off on yanking people's
chains)
Bill C

 

[MagillaGorilla]

[email protected] wrote:

> MagillaGorilla wrote:
>
>>[email protected] wrote:
>>
>>>I recently heard that team members of a US pro team basically each
>
> pay
>
>>>$10K upon signing. They also each buy a new team bike at full
>>>price...$4K. Their hotels and airfares are then covered for the
>
> season.
>
>>>
>>>Seems like a weird set-up. Anyone hear of such a thing? Is it
>
> common
>
>>>today?
>>>
>>>I suppose that this is the lower tier of this particular team.
>
> Maybe
>
>>>what happens is that a manager then pools the money and uses it to
>
> set
>
>>>up a season and pays for all travel and lodging in advance. So that
>>>even though everyone is paying their own way they are committed in
>>>advance and thus are in effect forced to be a team.
>>>
>>>It's like, there's no sponsor money, so if everyone pitches in, we
>
> can
>
>>>have a pro team, so why not do it.
>>>
>>>It's a little weird because pro usually means being paid to ride
>
> rather
>
>>>than paying to ride.
>>>Anyone know more about this approach to being a pro?
>>>
>>>--JP
>>>
>>
>>
>>Dear Jeffrey,
>>
>>It's called Team Subway (aka -$20k dreamers). It's a fake pro team
>
> with
>
>>fake results to match.
>>
>>It's just a matter of time before that fat pig Jared is on the team.
>>
>>As for the pay-to-play jargon, that's exactly what it is. Except most
>
> of
>
>>the money goes into Rene Wenzel's checking account instead of the
>>riders' accounts.
>>
>>This "pro" team will be the source of a lot of comedy material here
>
> on
>
>>RBR. It's actually funnier than team Noble House in many ways.
>>
>>Magilla
>
>
>
> The "pay to play" concept is new to Subway this season. In a nutshell,
> it's an opportunity for the team to increase it's budget for the 2005
> season via an investment in the bicycle (which is the rider's property
> from day one) by the athlete. I can comfortably assure that not a dime
> is going into Rene's bank account as pure profit. You may not be aware,
> but alot of us continue working within cycling because we love it; not
> because it's a financial goldmine.
>
> This concept is a great opportunity for those riders wishing to step
> into the professional ranks that may not have the results needed to
> slot into a supported position with another UCI Continental team. When
> it's all said and done, Subway will have a better budget than the
> majority of Conti' teams out there and as good, if not better,
> logistical support at NRC and UCI races.
>
> Through a small $4500 fee (not $10,000 - $20,000 as stated), qualified
> riders (must be Cat 1 or USPRO and meet the final selection criteria)
> are provided a "bridging" opportunity that should allow a smoother
> transition and "ease of assimilation" into the professional ranks via
> strong support and guidance through the murky and dank US domestic
> scene.
>
> I know these guys and they're not weekend warriors looking to play the
> "psuedo-pro" role in the NRC, boozin' it up after the race talking
> about how f'n cool they looked riding with the big guys.
>
> These are guys working their asses off putting in 30+ hour training
> weeks in an effort to take a real shot at moving up in the ranks. One
> of the most difficult aspects of being a professional rider is
> inadequate or nonexistent support while on the road and at the big
> races. This lack of support can be the difference between being forever
> stuck as a nobody ****** and making into the paying-professional ranks.
>
>
> A good team is everything and I'm pretty confident that after the shots
> have been taken and the laughter dies down, a lot of "domestic pros"
> are going to wake up to the realization that Subway riders are getting
> better support and being treated more like professionals than they
> could dream of in their current set ups.
>
> Hey man, why fault the rider looking to invest in his future? I've had
> to do it and so have many others. We've all got to start somewhere...
> Erin Hartwell
>

That's a very nice, well-thought out post.

How's the pilot training going, Erin?

Magilla

 

[Carl Sundquist]

"MagillaGorilla" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> That's a very nice, well-thought out post.
>
> How's the pilot training going, Erin?
>
> Magilla

You toss that out as if it was a big secret.

 

[OKpro]

A couple of months ago another thread trashed on the Subway Team asking its riders to "pay" to race. I didn't say anything because I knew that some of you guys would immediatly think that it was a joke. I raced for the Subway Team in 2004 and knew from the beginning what the deal was. All the comments posted then and now made me realize just how little some of you understand about the sport of cycling in the US. Subway is the first team to announce their intentions to have riders help bring sponsors to the table. Thats what this is, the riders were able to go out and find personal sponsors that would get something tangible in return for a small amount of cash. I was able to find a company to sponsor the team within a week of finding out the figure, and that was when the amount was double what it ended up being.
I hate to name anyone.... So I won't because it would be unfair to those people that are working towards their dream. But, how many sponsors out there were brought to the table by racers? Are they all jokes in YOUR eyes? How many teams had to start small and work their way to the top? How many "nobodies" had to get their start on these small squads to make a name for themselves? Ask yourself these questions and you will realize that without small teams nobody would get chance. The lucky few that get their start on a big budget team either have some tremendous success very early in their career or they know somebody.
The guy who runs the Cycling Center in Belgium has a great quote on his website.... When asked why he charges riders to come and stay and race in his Belgium program he asks "why would I want to invest in a rider that isn't willing to invest in himself?" Think about that.... Not all of us started racing when we were 14-15yrs old and had parents that could afford to help us get to Junior Nationals which would then help us get to the U-23 Nat. Team or get noticed by a Elite Junior Team or meet someone that would help get us on a Elite Amateur Team or D3 Pro Team.
I have been very lucky to find a coach that believed in me and helped me move up through the ranks very quickly. I have taken some flack from the people around me that thought that Subway wasn't the best place for me but I think that this experience has only made me stronger and more experienced. It has shown me who my true friends are and that if I work my ass off everyday and show that have the dedication to get the job done, I will continue to get better. Success in cycling is so relative.... Who can honestly say that one person is more successful than another? Can it only be justified by the amount of money that a "Pro" makes? Or the size of the budget that his team has?
2005 is going to be a great year for the Subway Cycling Team. We are blessed with a great bunch of rosters and a group of guys and girls that want to succeed. There are no ego's on this team, we will race together and be successful because we want it more than anyone else. We have everything to gain and nothing to lose so laugh if YOU want to. I am very proud to be a part of something since it's inception. How many teams over the years have had it better than Subway in their first year but still folded up after the first season? It was probably because the guys thought that they weren't given enough.... Why does anybody deserve to be given anything? You should have to earn it through hardwork and dedication. Thats what the Subway Cycling Team is all about.

Thanks, Omer

MagillaGorilla wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> > I recently heard that team members of a US pro team basically each
pay
> > $10K upon signing. They also each buy a new team bike at full
> > price...$4K. Their hotels and airfares are then covered for the
season.
> >
> >
> > Seems like a weird set-up. Anyone hear of such a thing? Is it
common
> > today?
> >
> > I suppose that this is the lower tier of this particular team.
Maybe
> > what happens is that a manager then pools the money and uses it to
set
> > up a season and pays for all travel and lodging in advance. So that
> > even though everyone is paying their own way they are committed in
> > advance and thus are in effect forced to be a team.
> >
> > It's like, there's no sponsor money, so if everyone pitches in, we
can
> > have a pro team, so why not do it.
> >
> > It's a little weird because pro usually means being paid to ride
rather
> > than paying to ride.
> > Anyone know more about this approach to being a pro?
> >
> > --JP
> >
>
>
> Dear Jeffrey,
>
> It's called Team Subway (aka -$20k dreamers). It's a fake pro team
with
> fake results to match.
>
> It's just a matter of time before that fat pig Jared is on the team.
>
> As for the pay-to-play jargon, that's exactly what it is. Except most
of
> the money goes into Rene Wenzel's checking account instead of the
> riders' accounts.
>
> This "pro" team will be the source of a lot of comedy material here
on
> RBR. It's actually funnier than team Noble House in many ways.
>
> Magilla


The "pay to play" concept is new to Subway this season. In a nutshell,
it's an opportunity for the team to increase it's budget for the 2005
season via an investment in the bicycle (which is the rider's property
from day one) by the athlete. I can comfortably assure that not a dime
is going into Rene's bank account as pure profit. You may not be aware,
but alot of us continue working within cycling because we love it; not
because it's a financial goldmine.

This concept is a great opportunity for those riders wishing to step
into the professional ranks that may not have the results needed to
slot into a supported position with another UCI Continental team. When
it's all said and done, Subway will have a better budget than the
majority of Conti' teams out there and as good, if not better,
logistical support at NRC and UCI races.

Through a small $4500 fee (not $10,000 - $20,000 as stated), qualified
riders (must be Cat 1 or USPRO and meet the final selection criteria)
are provided a "bridging" opportunity that should allow a smoother
transition and "ease of assimilation" into the professional ranks via
strong support and guidance through the murky and dank US domestic
scene.

I know these guys and they're not weekend warriors looking to play the
"psuedo-pro" role in the NRC, boozin' it up after the race talking
about how f'n cool they looked riding with the big guys.

These are guys working their asses off putting in 30+ hour training
weeks in an effort to take a real shot at moving up in the ranks. One
of the most difficult aspects of being a professional rider is
inadequate or nonexistent support while on the road and at the big
races. This lack of support can be the difference between being forever
stuck as a nobody ****** and making into the paying-professional ranks.


A good team is everything and I'm pretty confident that after the shots
have been taken and the laughter dies down, a lot of "domestic pros"
are going to wake up to the realization that Subway riders are getting
better support and being treated more like professionals than they
could dream of in their current set ups.

Hey man, why fault the rider looking to invest in his future? I've had
to do it and so have many others. We've all got to start somewhere...
Erin Hartwell

 

[amit]

MagillaGorilla wrote:
> That's a very nice, well-thought out post.
>
> How's the pilot training going, Erin?

dumbass,

i didn't figure you for member of the rbr ass-kissing squad.

 

[Arthur Dey]

[email protected] wrote:
> ...an investment in the bicycle

First time I've ever heard "investment" and "bicycle" in the same
sentence. Does the bicycle appreciate in value over the season? Like,
the more NRC races it goes to the more it's worth?



> I can comfortably assure that not a dime is going into Rene's bank
account as pure profit.

How about adulterated profit?



> This concept is a great opportunity for those riders wishing to step
> into the professional ranks that may not have the results needed to
> slot into a supported position with another UCI Continental team.

Right - Pack fill with third rate Cat 1s.



> I know these guys and they're not weekend warriors looking to play
the
> "psuedo-pro" role in the NRC, boozin' it up after the race talking
> about how f'n cool they looked riding with the big guys.

But they're still psuedo-pros and the only thing they'll get for their
$4500 is a bike and some stories about how f'n cool it was to ride with
the big guys. For those who break out of the delusion they'll think
about how much it f'n sucked to pay $4500 to get pummelled by the big
guys...and all they've got left is a trashed bike worth $800 on Ebay.



> These are guys working their asses off putting in 30+ hour training
> weeks in an effort to take a real shot at moving up in the ranks.

30 hours?! Tell them not to train that much - they'll be fried by
February.



> a lot of "domestic pros" are going to wake up to the realization that
Subway riders are getting better support and being treated more like
professionals than they could dream of in their current set ups.

Right, because Subway is making the pseudo-pros pay for it. If you
want to get right down to it, it's a fantasy camp that lasts a whole
season.

Damn, Wenzel did a great sell.

-ADEY

 

[B. Lafferty]

"OKpro" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> A couple of months ago another thread trashed on the Subway Team asking
> its riders to "pay" to race. I didn't say anything because I knew that
> some of you guys would immediatly think that it was a joke. I raced for
> the Subway Team in 2004 and knew from the beginning what the deal was.
> All the comments posted then and now made me realize just how little
> some of you understand about the sport of cycling in the US.

Omer, I think we understand the difference between a professional and an
amateur in the guise of being a professional. Professionals sign contracts
and are paid for their labor. Amateurs pay to be involved in the sport for
the love of the sport. Amateurs go out and get team and/or personal
sponsors. Professionals devote themselves to their jobs--racing and
representing their employers/sponsors to the public. The Subway boys are
little different from any amateur team where you look for money and either
get your bicycle free for the year or get to buy it at cost. Apparently the
Subways don't even get their machines for cost. If UCI standards were
properly devised, the schmucks on Subway wouldn't have professional
licenses.

>Subway is
> the first team to announce their intentions to have riders help bring
> sponsors to the table.

Really?

>Thats what this is, the riders were able to go
> out and find personal sponsors that would get something tangible in
> return for a small amount of cash. I was able to find a company to
> sponsor the team within a week of finding out the figure, and that was
> when the amount was double what it ended up being.
> I hate to name anyone.... So I won't because it would be unfair to
> those people that are working towards their dream. But, how many
> sponsors out there were brought to the table by racers? Are they all
> jokes in YOUR eyes? How many teams had to start small and work their
> way to the top? How many "nobodies" had to get their start on these
> small squads to make a name for themselves? Ask yourself these
> questions and you will realize that without small teams nobody would
> get chance. The lucky few that get their start on a big budget team
> either have some tremendous success very early in their career or they
> know somebody.

Small teams that can not pay their riders a minimum wage are not
professional teams, regardless of what their paperwork says.

> The guy who runs the Cycling Center in Belgium has a great quote on
> his website.... When asked why he charges riders to come and stay and
> race in his Belgium program he asks "why would I want to invest in a
> rider that isn't willing to invest in himself?" Think about that....

You think about it. If you're going to Belgium with the hope of riding pro,
it might make sense to pay for your room and board, coaching and racing in
order to make it to the professional level. The other option is to race as
an amateur for a national team and make the move to the professional ranks
after earning recognition via results. You could also look for a Belgian,
Dutch. Danish, French or Spanish girlfriend to set you up, but that would
take social skills that most American amateur racers lack.


> Not all of us started racing when we were 14-15yrs old and had parents
> that could afford to help us get to Junior Nationals which would then
> help us get to the U-23 Nat. Team or get noticed by a Elite Junior Team
> or meet someone that would help get us on a Elite Amateur Team or D3 Pro
> Team.

It's a tough world. Most amateurs work real jobs and fit racing in as they
can. Very few parents foot the bill to age 25 when you're definitly on the
slide to being a master fattie.

> I have been very lucky to find a coach that believed in me and helped
> me move up through the ranks very quickly. I have taken some flack from
> the people around me that thought that Subway wasn't the best place for
> me but I think that this experience has only made me stronger and more
> experienced. It has shown me who my true friends are and that if I work
> my ass off everyday and show that have the dedication to get the job
> done, I will continue to get better. Success in cycling is so
> relative.... Who can honestly say that one person is more successful
> than another? Can it only be justified by the amount of money that a
> "Pro" makes? Or the size of the budget that his team has?
> 2005 is going to be a great year for the Subway Cycling Team. We are
> blessed with a great bunch of rosters and a group of guys and girls
> that want to succeed. There are no ego's on this team, we will race
> together and be successful because we want it more than anyone else. We
> have everything to gain and nothing to lose so laugh if YOU want to. I
> am very proud to be a part of something since it's inception. How many
> teams over the years have had it better than Subway in their first year
> but still folded up after the first season? It was probably because the
> guys thought that they weren't given enough.... Why does anybody
> deserve to be given anything? You should have to earn it through
> hardwork and dedication. Thats what the Subway Cycling Team is all
> about.


Truly, I'm happy that you're happy in your little clam shell.

Happy New Year!

 

[[email protected]]

Arthur Dey wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> > ...an investment in the bicycle
>
> First time I've ever heard "investment" and "bicycle" in the same
> sentence. Does the bicycle appreciate in value over the season?
Like,
> the more NRC races it goes to the more it's worth?
>
>
>
> > I can comfortably assure that not a dime is going into Rene's bank
> account as pure profit.
>
> How about adulterated profit?
>
>
>
> > This concept is a great opportunity for those riders wishing to
step
> > into the professional ranks that may not have the results needed to
> > slot into a supported position with another UCI Continental team.
>
> Right - Pack fill with third rate Cat 1s.
>
>
>
> > I know these guys and they're not weekend warriors looking to play
> the
> > "psuedo-pro" role in the NRC, boozin' it up after the race talking
> > about how f'n cool they looked riding with the big guys.
>
> But they're still psuedo-pros and the only thing they'll get for
their
> $4500 is a bike and some stories about how f'n cool it was to ride
with
> the big guys. For those who break out of the delusion they'll think
> about how much it f'n sucked to pay $4500 to get pummelled by the big
> guys...and all they've got left is a trashed bike worth $800 on Ebay.
>
>
>
> > These are guys working their asses off putting in 30+ hour training
> > weeks in an effort to take a real shot at moving up in the ranks.
>
> 30 hours?! Tell them not to train that much - they'll be fried by
> February.
>
>
>
> > a lot of "domestic pros" are going to wake up to the realization
that
> Subway riders are getting better support and being treated more like
> professionals than they could dream of in their current set ups.
>
> Right, because Subway is making the pseudo-pros pay for it. If you
> want to get right down to it, it's a fantasy camp that lasts a whole
> season.
>
> Damn, Wenzel did a great sell.
>
> -ADEY

Art... first and foremost, relax man, it's all good. BTW, the bike will
depreciate, we all know that. Remember, as Lance said, "it's not about
the bike."

It's about an opportunity.

Now to clarify, I admit there was a bit of exaggeration regarding the
training volume; it's more like 25 - 33 hours a week for 2 - 3 weeks at
a stretch, followed by adequate periods of recovery. The overall
training load is planned quite carefully and I'm not worried that the
guys are going to be "fried" by February.

Most use SRM's and have quarterly sports science testing to better
evaluate progress and to define more clearly their aerobic training
zones. What they will be prepared for is the grind of the NRC scene and
they should have the base fitness required to be competitive in "elite"
cycling here in the US.

Successful? Define success. Each and every guy in the team has his own
objective as an elite athlete. Some will find success, some won't. If
they don't try, they'll never know.

Note that this is a "UCI Continental" team--not a UCI Conti' Pro or UCI
"Pro Tour" squad. It's basically an elite team being managed
professionally in an effort to provide the athletes a "professional"
and well-organized racing, logistical, and management environment. But
you already knew that, right?

Just look at this as one more option available to riders whom desire to
take that next step in cycling towards becoming a paid professional.
I'll tell you from experience, the quality and professionalism of the
staff and team management, the level of organization within the team,
and the reduction in rider "hassle factor" all go along way in creating
an atmosphere in which the talented rider can realize results.

There's a fine line between making it and not making it in this truly
difficult athletic environment called elite cycling. The sport's
already hard enough without having to deal with the headaches all to
common to cycling worldwide, in particular, the logistics of personal
athlete management.

Again, having that strong support improves the odds of getting results
for the talented rider. It also allows the rider to participate in NRC
and UCI races, thus introducing themselves to other professional riders
and team managers, allowing the rider(s) to make the oh-so-important
contacts necessary to getting opportunities with other domestic and
international Conti' (DIII) teams, or God forbid, a Continental Pro
squad, i.e., Navigators.

Laugh away, take the ****, whatever... but to be fair, give 'em a hand
when they do well.

I'll take my answer off the air...

 

[Ronde Chump]

No reason to give those guys any ****. Yeah, they may be $20k dreamers, but is
it any different than the Euro squads that have the riders sign contracts, then
take a kickback to the DS in cash? Guys that haven't made a name for
themselves do it just to get selected to do the good races.

In the U.S., maybe calling yourself a "Pro" doesn't mean the same thing as
being a Pro in other sports, but it still gives a rider certain opportunities.
Its good for guys that may not otherwise get noticed by bigger squads, or for a
rider with too much cash and a desire to call himself a pro rider.

Also, having to pay upfront guarantees that you will not have to keep digging
into the bank account all year long, as most pro/ams in the US have to do. It
takes the pressure off of worrying about your next meal, especially when you
need to be concentrating on training and racing.

Posters like Magilla are talking **** because they still harbor the illusion
that they are or were good enough to be a pro, but never got a contract.
They're the same as all the guys that complain that the reason they are no good
at bike racing is because everyone else is cheating.

Same story, new day......

Go away.




>Subject: Re: Pay-to-play in US pro racing?
>From: MagillaGorilla [email protected]
>Date: 12/28/2004 3:22 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <[email protected]>
>
>[email protected] wrote:
>> I recently heard that team members of a US pro team basically each pay
>> $10K upon signing. They also each buy a new team bike at full
>> price...$4K. Their hotels and airfares are then covered for the season.
>>
>>
>> Seems like a weird set-up. Anyone hear of such a thing? Is it common
>> today?
>>
>> I suppose that this is the lower tier of this particular team. Maybe
>> what happens is that a manager then pools the money and uses it to set
>> up a season and pays for all travel and lodging in advance. So that
>> even though everyone is paying their own way they are committed in
>> advance and thus are in effect forced to be a team.
>>
>> It's like, there's no sponsor money, so if everyone pitches in, we can
>> have a pro team, so why not do it.
>>
>> It's a little weird because pro usually means being paid to ride rather
>> than paying to ride.
>> Anyone know more about this approach to being a pro?
>>
>> --JP
>>
>
>
>Dear Jeffrey,
>
>It's called Team Subway (aka -$20k dreamers). It's a fake pro team with
>fake results to match.
>
>It's just a matter of time before that fat pig Jared is on the team.
>
>As for the pay-to-play jargon, that's exactly what it is. Except most of
>the money goes into Rene Wenzel's checking account instead of the
>riders' accounts.
>
>This "pro" team will be the source of a lot of comedy material here on
>RBR. It's actually funnier than team Noble House in many ways.
>
>Magilla
>
>
>
>
>
>

 

[chiefhiawatha]

In article <[email protected]>, "Arthur
Dey" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Right - Pack fill with third rate Cat 1s.

Any idea how many Cat 1s there are in the US? Why
be a **** and fit in by making fun of others. There are
no third rate Cat 1s.

 

[Arthur Dey]

Thanks for expounding on the topic. Are you the team's PR rep? How
much did that job cost you?

 

[Arthur Dey]

> Any idea how many Cat 1s there are in the US?
Is that a trick question?
> There are no third rate Cat 1s.
OK, how about second rate.

 

[Casey Kerrigan]

In article <[email protected]>,
Arthur Dey <[email protected]> wrote:

> > Any idea how many Cat 1s there are in the US?
> Is that a trick question?
> > There are no third rate Cat 1s.
> OK, how about second rate.
>


As of 12/24/04 there were 999 Cat 1 men and 205 Cat 1 women according
to the USCF. This number doesn't include riders who are members of UCI
teams since those riders have USPro licenses.

 

[Tim Lines]

amit wrote:

> MagillaGorilla wrote:
>
>>That's a very nice, well-thought out post.
>>
>>How's the pilot training going, Erin?
>
>
> dumbass,
>
> i didn't figure you for member of the rbr ass-kissing squad.
>

Ooooh! Is there an actual squad for that? Do they get special uniforms
and everything? Where can I sign up?

TA-TA
Tim

 

[Andrew F Martin]

I know AT LEAST 3 third rate cat 1s...and that's just in my immediate
circle of friends

-a