Pecs question



P

Per Elmsäter

Guest
I currently found myself in a discussion whether or not you could change the
shape of the Pectoralis major by doing different kinds of exercises.
Benchpress, dumbbells inclined bench, cables from different angles etc. I of
course do these different exercises but am I changing the shape of my pecs
or changing the shape of all the different chest muscles.

For a fact I know that normally this isn't so. But how about the pecs. They
evidently consist of fibers running in three different directions. Is it
possible to accentuate these different sets of fibers.

Or do the different chest exercises just address the different chest
muscles? Pectoralis major with it's two heads and Pectoralis minor plus the
Serratus Anterior.

The discussion started with what kind of exercises to best address the lower
chest.

--
Perre

Symfoni, en kost- och träningsdagbok
http://www.kostforum.se
 
"Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]> wrote:

>I currently found myself in a discussion whether or not you could change the
>shape of the Pectoralis major by doing different kinds of exercises.
>Benchpress, dumbbells inclined bench, cables from different angles etc. I of
>course do these different exercises but am I changing the shape of my pecs
>or changing the shape of all the different chest muscles.
>
>For a fact I know that normally this isn't so. But how about the pecs. They
>evidently consist of fibers running in three different directions. Is it
>possible to accentuate these different sets of fibers.
>
>Or do the different chest exercises just address the different chest
>muscles?

For the most part, yes.

>Pectoralis major with it's two heads and Pectoralis minor plus the
>Serratus Anterior.

You forgot about the anterior and medial deltoids.

>The discussion started with what kind of exercises to best address the lower
>chest.

There are multiple innervations of the pectoralis major, but I
wouldn't expect that to make much difference in training the shape of
the muscle, no matter what exercise you do.
 
When it cums to changing the shape of peckers, Williams is your
expert.

On Mon, 13 Feb 2006 14:00:05 -0500, JMW <[email protected]> wrote:

>"Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>I currently found myself in a discussion whether or not you could change the
>>shape of the Pectoralis major by doing different kinds of exercises.
>>Benchpress, dumbbells inclined bench, cables from different angles etc. I of
>>course do these different exercises but am I changing the shape of my pecs
>>or changing the shape of all the different chest muscles.
>>
>>For a fact I know that normally this isn't so. But how about the pecs. They
>>evidently consist of fibers running in three different directions. Is it
>>possible to accentuate these different sets of fibers.
>>
>>Or do the different chest exercises just address the different chest
>>muscles?
>
>For the most part, yes.
>
>>Pectoralis major with it's two heads and Pectoralis minor plus the
>>Serratus Anterior.
>
>You forgot about the anterior and medial deltoids.
>
>>The discussion started with what kind of exercises to best address the lower
>>chest.
>
>There are multiple innervations of the pectoralis major, but I
>wouldn't expect that to make much difference in training the shape of
>the muscle, no matter what exercise you do.
 
JMW wrote:
> "Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Or do the different chest exercises just address the different chest
>> muscles?
>
> For the most part, yes.
>
>> Pectoralis major with it's two heads and Pectoralis minor plus the
>> Serratus Anterior.
>
> You forgot about the anterior and medial deltoids.
>

Yes I did ;) Just checking to see if you knew what you were talking about ;)
Actually, where the heck is the medial deltoids. I couldn't find it on the
exrx muscle map ;)

>> The discussion started with what kind of exercises to best address
>> the lower chest.
>
> There are multiple innervations of the pectoralis major, but I
> wouldn't expect that to make much difference in training the shape of
> the muscle, no matter what exercise you do.

Fine, this is exactly my standpoint.
Would you say that the differently directed fibers in the pecs have nothing
to do with how it shapes? Are we still talking genuine genetics?

--
Perre

Symfoni, en kost- och träningsdagbok
http://www.kostforum.se
 
Per Elmsäter wrote:
> JMW wrote:
> > "Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> Or do the different chest exercises just address the different chest
> >> muscles?
> >
> > For the most part, yes.
> >
> >> Pectoralis major with it's two heads and Pectoralis minor plus the
> >> Serratus Anterior.
> >
> > You forgot about the anterior and medial deltoids.
> >
>
> Yes I did ;) Just checking to see if you knew what you were talking about;)
> Actually, where the heck is the medial deltoids. I couldn't find it on the
> exrx muscle map ;)

They are highly specialized muscles with proximal attachments at the
isles of langerhans and distal attachments at the straits of hormuz.

> >> The discussion started with what kind of exercises to best address
> >> the lower chest.
> >
> > There are multiple innervations of the pectoralis major, but I
> > wouldn't expect that to make much difference in training the shape of
> > the muscle, no matter what exercise you do.
>
> Fine, this is exactly my standpoint.
> Would you say that the differently directed fibers in the pecs have nothing
> to do with how it shapes?

It does. But what makes you think you can change that? The pennation
of the fibers makes no difference unless you can specifically recruit
some motor units while leaving others dormant. And to the best of my
knowledge, there's no way to do that.

>Are we still talking genuine genetics?

Yep.
 
Per Elmsäter <[email protected]> wrote:

[...]

>Would you say that the differently directed fibers in
>the pecs have nothing to do with how it shapes?

If you've looked at any bodybuilding magazines during your life then
you've seen examples of genetics and its impact on how a particular
physique appears:

Franco Columbu's split chest, Boyer Coe's biceps peak, Chris
Dickerson's calves, Juliet Bergmann's abs, Lenda Murray's delts, etc.

Vince Gironda directed his pupils to work only upper pec as his
physical ideal had nothing to do with man boobs, so I suspect that you
can, in a manner of speaking, change the /shape/ of your muscles by
choosing particular exercises.

That's not really changing the shape, however, from my perspective.
What you're doing is choosing which muscles to accentuate or develop
through your training.

To be more direct, you cannot change the position of your muscle
attachments. You cannot change the shape that your muscles will
eventually appear after effective training and proper dieting.
Basically, you're stuck with what Mother Nature gave you, but that
will never be evident if you don't get to the gym.

Best of luck with your training.

--
Curt
http://curtjames.com/
 
On Mon, 13 Feb 2006 19:11:52 -0500, Curt James <[email protected]> wrote:

>If you've looked at any bodybuilding magazines during your life

And Curt has HUNDREDS of them under his bed. Of course you can't read
them because the pages are stuck together, but he does have them
nonetheless.
 
JMW wrote:
> Per Elmsäter wrote:
>> JMW wrote:
>>> "Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Or do the different chest exercises just address the different
>>>> chest muscles?
>>>
>>> For the most part, yes.
>>>
>>>> Pectoralis major with it's two heads and Pectoralis minor plus the
>>>> Serratus Anterior.
>>>
>>> You forgot about the anterior and medial deltoids.
>>>
>>
>> Yes I did ;) Just checking to see if you knew what you were talking
>> about ;) Actually, where the heck is the medial deltoids. I couldn't
>> find it on the exrx muscle map ;)
>
> They are highly specialized muscles with proximal attachments at the
> isles of langerhans and distal attachments at the straits of hormuz.
>
>>>> The discussion started with what kind of exercises to best address
>>>> the lower chest.
>>>
>>> There are multiple innervations of the pectoralis major, but I
>>> wouldn't expect that to make much difference in training the shape
>>> of the muscle, no matter what exercise you do.
>>
>> Fine, this is exactly my standpoint.
>> Would you say that the differently directed fibers in the pecs have
>> nothing to do with how it shapes?
>
> It does. But what makes you think you can change that? The pennation
> of the fibers makes no difference unless you can specifically recruit
> some motor units while leaving others dormant. And to the best of my
> knowledge, there's no way to do that.
>
>> Are we still talking genuine genetics?
>
> Yep.

Thanks. As I figured then. I'll roll out the weights and what comes will
come. Oh **** I hope that knuckelehead WeenyRodgers doesn't see I've said
that ;)
--
Perre

Symfoni, en kost- och träningsdagbok
http://www.kostforum.se
 
Curt James wrote:
> Per Elmsäter <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> Would you say that the differently directed fibers in
>> the pecs have nothing to do with how it shapes?
>
> If you've looked at any bodybuilding magazines during your life then
> you've seen examples of genetics and its impact on how a particular
> physique appears:
>
> Franco Columbu's split chest, Boyer Coe's biceps peak, Chris
> Dickerson's calves, Juliet Bergmann's abs, Lenda Murray's delts, etc.
>
> Vince Gironda directed his pupils to work only upper pec as his
> physical ideal had nothing to do with man boobs, so I suspect that you
> can, in a manner of speaking, change the /shape/ of your muscles by
> choosing particular exercises.
>
> That's not really changing the shape, however, from my perspective.
> What you're doing is choosing which muscles to accentuate or develop
> through your training.
>
> To be more direct, you cannot change the position of your muscle
> attachments. You cannot change the shape that your muscles will
> eventually appear after effective training and proper dieting.
> Basically, you're stuck with what Mother Nature gave you, but that
> will never be evident if you don't get to the gym.
>
> Best of luck with your training.


Thanks Curt.
--
Perre

Symfoni, en kost- och träningsdagbok
http://www.kostforum.se
 
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 09:22:20 GMT, "Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Thanks. As I figured then. I'll roll out the weights and what comes will
>come. Oh **** I hope that knuckelehead WeenyRodgers doesn't see I've said
>that ;)

You frickin' ****.
 
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 09:22:49 GMT, "Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Curt James wrote:
>> Per Elmsäter <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>> Would you say that the differently directed fibers in
>>> the pecs have nothing to do with how it shapes?
>>
>> If you've looked at any bodybuilding magazines during your life then
>> you've seen examples of genetics and its impact on how a particular
>> physique appears:
>>
>> Franco Columbu's split chest, Boyer Coe's biceps peak, Chris
>> Dickerson's calves, Juliet Bergmann's abs, Lenda Murray's delts, etc.
>>
>> Vince Gironda directed his pupils to work only upper pec as his
>> physical ideal had nothing to do with man boobs, so I suspect that you
>> can, in a manner of speaking, change the /shape/ of your muscles by
>> choosing particular exercises.
>>
>> That's not really changing the shape, however, from my perspective.
>> What you're doing is choosing which muscles to accentuate or develop
>> through your training.
>>
>> To be more direct, you cannot change the position of your muscle
>> attachments. You cannot change the shape that your muscles will
>> eventually appear after effective training and proper dieting.
>> Basically, you're stuck with what Mother Nature gave you, but that
>> will never be evident if you don't get to the gym.
>>
>> Best of luck with your training.
>
>
>Thanks Curt.

Lovers in the night, they'll be together...
 
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 09:22:49 GMT, "Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >Curt James wrote:
> >> Per Elmsäter <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> [...]
> >>
> >>> Would you say that the differently directed fibers in
> >>> the pecs have nothing to do with how it shapes?
> >>
> >> If you've looked at any bodybuilding magazines during your life then
> >> you've seen examples of genetics and its impact on how a particular
> >> physique appears:
> >>
> >> Franco Columbu's split chest, Boyer Coe's biceps peak, Chris
> >> Dickerson's calves, Juliet Bergmann's abs, Lenda Murray's delts, etc.
> >>
> >> Vince Gironda directed his pupils to work only upper pec as his
> >> physical ideal had nothing to do with man boobs, so I suspect that you
> >> can, in a manner of speaking, change the /shape/ of your muscles by
> >> choosing particular exercises.
> >>
> >> That's not really changing the shape, however, from my perspective.
> >> What you're doing is choosing which muscles to accentuate or develop
> >> through your training.
> >>
> >> To be more direct, you cannot change the position of your muscle
> >> attachments. You cannot change the shape that your muscles will
> >> eventually appear after effective training and proper dieting.
> >> Basically, you're stuck with what Mother Nature gave you, but that
> >> will never be evident if you don't get to the gym.
> >>
> >> Best of luck with your training.
> >
> >
> >Thanks Curt.
>
> Lovers in the night, they'll be together...

More than you will ever have!!!
 
[email protected] wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 09:22:20 GMT, "Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks. As I figured then. I'll roll out the weights and what comes
>> will come. Oh **** I hope that knuckelehead WeenyRodgers doesn't see
>> I've said that ;)
>
> You frickin' ****.

Dang. Now I'll have you chasing my ass, wherever I go.

--
Perre

Symfoni, en kost- och träningsdagbok
http://www.kostforum.se
 
Per Elmsäter wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> > On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 09:22:20 GMT, "Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Thanks. As I figured then. I'll roll out the weights and what comes
> >> will come. Oh **** I hope that knuckelehead WeenyRodgers doesn't see
> >> I've said that ;)
> >
> > You frickin' ****.
>
> Dang. Now I'll have you chasing my ass, wherever I go.

That's what happens when you feed the trolls. You were warned.
 
On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 07:09:45 +1100, "mike" <[email protected]> wrote:

> More than you will ever have!!!

Agreed. If two mens hot, sweaty, stinkin' bodies pounding together as
your BF's weenie rams your pooper is getting it, I'll stay a virgin.
 
JMW <[email protected]> wrote:

>That's what happens when you feed the trolls.

JaneMW, you ignorant ****.

Your post is feeding the troll concept. You see that and it pleases
you would be my guess if I was guessin'.

>You were warned.

Here's a warning for you:

Only YOU can prevent forest fires!

Like that? Here's another:

Only YOU can prevent appearing like a hypocritical ****.

But, hey, enjoy your trolling, Jane.

--
Curt
http://curtjames.com/
 
JMW wrote:
> Per Elmsäter wrote:
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 09:22:20 GMT, "Per Elmsäter"
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks. As I figured then. I'll roll out the weights and what comes
>>>> will come. Oh **** I hope that knuckelehead WeenyRodgers doesn't
>>>> see I've said that ;)
>>>
>>> You frickin' ****.
>>
>> Dang. Now I'll have you chasing my ass, wherever I go.
>
> That's what happens when you feed the trolls. You were warned.

No problem. I just figured I'd feed him something that he wouldn't feel so
good from ;)
Besides. No thread on mfw is a real thread until it has been atacked by the
local Troll ;)

--
Perre

Symfoni, en kost- och träningsdagbok
http://www.kostforum.se
 
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