Pedal car (Dino, Berg,Kettler) questions.

  • Thread starter what does THIS button do?
  • Start date



"what does THIS button do?" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Depending on where you are reading this, you may know that one of my
> coworkers developed bicycle towed snow plow which he uses to help keep
> a MUP open in our car-clogged suburb of Chicago.
> (<http://www.google.com/search?q=bicycle+snow+plow> [first link] on the
> off chance this is news to anyone). No, the local governmental units
> won't remove the snow and yes we've tried to get them to move it. If
> we don't do it, it won't get done, period.
>
> The main drawback of the bikeplow system is that the bike needs to be
> in front of the plow, towing. Not pushing. In the snow. And the bike
> has to be above a certain critical speed for balancing yadda yadda
> yadda, the plow has trouble with heavy, wet, or icy underlayers. The
> plow is 10^6 better than nothing, but there is a bit of room for
> improvement.
>
> It would be better, for instance, if the motivator were on something
> more stable than two-wheels, and it might be good if the plow pushed
> the snow out of the way, before the wheels ...
>
> Tautological thoughts like this lead me to imagine a sort of
> pedal-powered bulldozer or tractor thing, which lead me eventually to
> discover these things called pedal cars
>
> <http://www.autoculture.co.uk/Dino%202007.pdf>
> <http://www.kettler.net/articles/20050216194000001126/index.html>
> <http://www.bergtoys.com/skelters.php?categorie=10>
>
> They seem to be popular(?) in europe, but basically non-existant in the
> US. The Dino seems to be the bee's knees (very nice), with a 5-speed +
> reverse gear, 200+ kg payload .... very burly, and quite what i'd
> imagine i'd like to have to push a little V-plow along the trail.
>
> The only real problems i see are (a) i'd have to import most of them
> because of the limited availability in the states (Kettler seems sort
> of available, i.e. special order at ****'s Sports) and (b) they cost a
> lot of money -- 900 Pounds Sterling for the top of the line Dino car!
>
> so i'm seeking information and pointers. I'd like to know of club
> websites etc. for pedal-car entheusiasts, hear of people's
> experiences/opinions etc.
>

I think one of the trikes (tricycles) would work well for this purpose.
You could use an upright trike like you see at a lot of retirement
communities, or a recumbent trike.
The regular upright trikes cost less than the recumbent trikes do.
Many of these trikes can be had with a three speed. i don't know about 5
speed or 7 speed models.
But one could probably put in a Shimano 7 or 8 speed hub in lieu of the
three speed hub.
 
Alan Braggins wrote:

> I'm trying to imaging using the wheel of a Wovel
> http://www.gizmag.co.uk/go/6490/gallery/
> as a direct drive front wheel on a delta trike, but failing.

The Wovel by itself looks like a far more workable solution than any of
the pedal cars that have been described in this thread.

mark
 
"Earl Bollinger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "what does THIS button do?" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Depending on where you are reading this, you may know that one of my
>> coworkers developed bicycle towed snow plow which he uses to help keep
>> a MUP open in our car-clogged suburb of Chicago.
>> (<http://www.google.com/search?q=bicycle+snow+plow> [first link] on the
>> off chance this is news to anyone). No, the local governmental units
>> won't remove the snow and yes we've tried to get them to move it. If
>> we don't do it, it won't get done, period.
>>
>> The main drawback of the bikeplow system is that the bike needs to be
>> in front of the plow, towing. Not pushing. In the snow. And the bike
>> has to be above a certain critical speed for balancing yadda yadda
>> yadda, the plow has trouble with heavy, wet, or icy underlayers. The
>> plow is 10^6 better than nothing, but there is a bit of room for
>> improvement.
>>
>> It would be better, for instance, if the motivator were on something
>> more stable than two-wheels, and it might be good if the plow pushed
>> the snow out of the way, before the wheels ...
>>
>> Tautological thoughts like this lead me to imagine a sort of
>> pedal-powered bulldozer or tractor thing, which lead me eventually to
>> discover these things called pedal cars
>>
>> <http://www.autoculture.co.uk/Dino%202007.pdf>
>> <http://www.kettler.net/articles/20050216194000001126/index.html>
>> <http://www.bergtoys.com/skelters.php?categorie=10>
>>
>> They seem to be popular(?) in europe, but basically non-existant in the
>> US. The Dino seems to be the bee's knees (very nice), with a 5-speed +
>> reverse gear, 200+ kg payload .... very burly, and quite what i'd
>> imagine i'd like to have to push a little V-plow along the trail.
>>
>> The only real problems i see are (a) i'd have to import most of them
>> because of the limited availability in the states (Kettler seems sort
>> of available, i.e. special order at ****'s Sports) and (b) they cost a
>> lot of money -- 900 Pounds Sterling for the top of the line Dino car!
>>
>> so i'm seeking information and pointers. I'd like to know of club
>> websites etc. for pedal-car entheusiasts, hear of people's
>> experiences/opinions etc.
>>
>
> I think one of the trikes (tricycles) would work well for this purpose.
> You could use an upright trike like you see at a lot of retirement
> communities, or a recumbent trike.
> The regular upright trikes cost less than the recumbent trikes do.
> Many of these trikes can be had with a three speed. i don't know about 5
> speed or 7 speed models.
> But one could probably put in a Shimano 7 or 8 speed hub in lieu of the
> three speed hub.
>

I forgot to mention that the recumbent trikes are reversed with the two
front wheels steerable and the single rear wheel for power.
Usually they run from 21 speeds on up to 60 speeds. Thus one could use it to
push a snow plow more effectively.
 
Earl Bollinger wrote:
> "Earl Bollinger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > "what does THIS button do?" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >> Depending on where you are reading this, you may know that one of my
> >> coworkers developed bicycle towed snow plow which he uses to help keep
> >> a MUP open in our car-clogged suburb of Chicago.
> >> (<http://www.google.com/search?q=bicycle+snow+plow> [first link] on the
> >> off chance this is news to anyone). No, the local governmental units
> >> won't remove the snow and yes we've tried to get them to move it. If
> >> we don't do it, it won't get done, period.
> >>
> >> The main drawback of the bikeplow system is that the bike needs to be
> >> in front of the plow, towing. Not pushing. In the snow. And the bike
> >> has to be above a certain critical speed for balancing yadda yadda
> >> yadda, the plow has trouble with heavy, wet, or icy underlayers. The
> >> plow is 10^6 better than nothing, but there is a bit of room for
> >> improvement.
> >>
> >> It would be better, for instance, if the motivator were on something
> >> more stable than two-wheels, and it might be good if the plow pushed
> >> the snow out of the way, before the wheels ...
> >>
> >> Tautological thoughts like this lead me to imagine a sort of
> >> pedal-powered bulldozer or tractor thing, which lead me eventually to
> >> discover these things called pedal cars
> >>
> >> <http://www.autoculture.co.uk/Dino%202007.pdf>
> >> <http://www.kettler.net/articles/20050216194000001126/index.html>
> >> <http://www.bergtoys.com/skelters.php?categorie=10>
> >>
> >> They seem to be popular(?) in europe, but basically non-existant in the
> >> US. The Dino seems to be the bee's knees (very nice), with a 5-speed +
> >> reverse gear, 200+ kg payload .... very burly, and quite what i'd
> >> imagine i'd like to have to push a little V-plow along the trail.
> >>
> >> The only real problems i see are (a) i'd have to import most of them
> >> because of the limited availability in the states (Kettler seems sort
> >> of available, i.e. special order at ****'s Sports) and (b) they cost a
> >> lot of money -- 900 Pounds Sterling for the top of the line Dino car!
> >>
> >> so i'm seeking information and pointers. I'd like to know of club
> >> websites etc. for pedal-car entheusiasts, hear of people's
> >> experiences/opinions etc.
> >>
> >
> > I think one of the trikes (tricycles) would work well for this purpose.
> > You could use an upright trike like you see at a lot of retirement
> > communities, or a recumbent trike.
> > The regular upright trikes cost less than the recumbent trikes do.
> > Many of these trikes can be had with a three speed. i don't know about 5
> > speed or 7 speed models.
> > But one could probably put in a Shimano 7 or 8 speed hub in lieu of the
> > three speed hub.
> >
>
> I forgot to mention that the recumbent trikes are reversed with the two
> front wheels steerable and the single rear wheel for power.
> Usually they run from 21 speeds on up to 60 speeds. Thus one could use it to
> push a snow plow more effectively.

Mechanical advantage looms large in my thinking. While a lot of the
other suggestions sound pretty good at first pass, many don't have a
real mechanical torque multiplication advantage. They'll work on an
ideal or light snowfall, or over a "short" distance but will tend to be
difficult or fatigueing to use in heavy or frozen/wet slop or over a
distance of 1~3 miles.

Operating as a schneepflug (*) over distances in this mileage regime,
i'd be more inclined to use something that could grind, slowly but
inexorably, into drifts. I've found that the shock-loading associated
with riding a high speed profile into the snow can really trash my
quadraceps. A 60-speed sounds like it might have a bit of torque
multiplication. :)

I will look into tadpoles.

..max
*lansgsamer schneepflug.
 
In chi.general what does THIS button do? <[email protected]> wrote:
> Depending on where you are reading this, you may know that one of my
> coworkers developed bicycle towed snow plow which he uses to help keep
> a MUP open in our car-clogged suburb of Chicago.
> (<http://www.google.com/search?q=bicycle+snow+plow> [first link] on the
> off chance this is news to anyone). No, the local governmental units
> won't remove the snow and yes we've tried to get them to move it. If
> we don't do it, it won't get done, period.

Quit *****ing and push a snowblower around. What's the problem here-
clearing snow or doing things the most complicated way possible?
 
Cydrome Leader wrote:
> In chi.general what does THIS button do? <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Depending on where you are reading this, you may know that one of my
> > coworkers developed bicycle towed snow plow which he uses to help keep
> > a MUP open in our car-clogged suburb of Chicago.
> > (<http://www.google.com/search?q=bicycle+snow+plow> [first link] on the
> > off chance this is news to anyone). No, the local governmental units
> > won't remove the snow and yes we've tried to get them to move it. If
> > we don't do it, it won't get done, period.
>
> Quit *****ing and push a snowblower around. What's the problem here-
> clearing snow or doing things the most complicated way possible?

Any dope can to things the easy way.

...max
 
what does THIS button do?! wrote:
> Cydrome Leader wrote:
>> In chi.general what does THIS button do? <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Depending on where you are reading this, you may know that one of my
>>> coworkers developed bicycle towed snow plow which he uses to help
>>> keep a MUP open in our car-clogged suburb of Chicago.
>>> (<http://www.google.com/search?q=bicycle+snow+plow> [first link] on
>>> the off chance this is news to anyone). No, the local governmental
>>> units won't remove the snow and yes we've tried to get them to move
>>> it. If we don't do it, it won't get done, period.
>>
>> Quit *****ing and push a snowblower around. What's the problem here-
>> clearing snow or doing things the most complicated way possible?
>
> Any dope can to things the easy way.
>
The OP's coworker has already gotten in trouble with the government for
plowing this. Governments are always worried about liability. I think part
of the reason the government relented is due to the novelty of a bicycle
snowplow.

In addition, the OP's coworker is going to work. Riding a bicycle to work is
one thing, even with a plow. Pushing a snowblower to work is quite another.
 
"Mike Kruger" <[email protected]> said in chi.general:

>>> Quit *****ing and push a snowblower around. What's the problem here-
>>> clearing snow or doing things the most complicated way possible?
>>
>> Any dope can to things the easy way.
>>
>The OP's coworker has already gotten in trouble with the government for
>plowing this. Governments are always worried about liability. I think part
>of the reason the government relented is due to the novelty of a bicycle
>snowplow.
>
>In addition, the OP's coworker is going to work. Riding a bicycle to work is
>one thing, even with a plow. Pushing a snowblower to work is quite another.

Nothing for it, then. Go down to Home Depot, hire yourself a bunch of
day laborers, and hand them each a snow shovel.
--
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
- Jonathan Swift
 
In article <[email protected]>
what does THIS button do? <[email protected]> wrote:
> Depending on where you are reading this, you may know that one of my
> coworkers developed bicycle towed snow plow which he uses to help keep
> a MUP open in our car-clogged suburb of Chicago.
> (<http://www.google.com/search?q=bicycle+snow+plow> [first link] on the
> off chance this is news to anyone). No, the local governmental units
> won't remove the snow and yes we've tried to get them to move it. If
> we don't do it, it won't get done, period.
>
> The main drawback of the bikeplow system is that the bike needs to be
> in front of the plow, towing. Not pushing. In the snow. And the bike
> has to be above a certain critical speed for balancing yadda yadda
> yadda, the plow has trouble with heavy, wet, or icy underlayers. The
> plow is 10^6 better than nothing, but there is a bit of room for
> improvement.
>
An easy-to-build improvement over the system you have ATM would be a
trike with two small wheels at the front, the plough in front of them
and a fat studded driven tyre at the back. You don't need to worry much
about weight or handling at speed, but it wants to be robust so it
withstands ramming into the heavier snow - just replacing the forks on a
clunker with a wheeled plough won't be up to the job because the frame
will likely bend/break and the steering would probably be unmanageable.

To get better performance in heavier conditions you're going to need
something more than a simple plough to shift the snow, because pedal
power via the drive wheel won't be enough, and the engineering becomes
rather more complicated - I'm thinking some sort of Archimedes-screw
type arrangement that's driven semi-independent of the propulsion
system. I wonder how well that would resist clogging - probably not
very well at all.

How about a tandem - front rider powers the 'blower', rear rider propels
the machine, steering supplemented with independent brakes on each front
wheel ...

I could go on ... :)
 
In article <[email protected]>,
Scott en Aztl?n <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Mike Kruger" <[email protected]> said in chi.general:
>
> >>> Quit *****ing and push a snowblower around. What's the problem here-
> >>> clearing snow or doing things the most complicated way possible?
> >>
> >> Any dope can to things the easy way.
> >>
> >The OP's coworker has already gotten in trouble with the government for
> >plowing this. Governments are always worried about liability. I think part
> >of the reason the government relented is due to the novelty of a bicycle
> >snowplow.
> >
> >In addition, the OP's coworker is going to work. Riding a bicycle to work is
> >one thing, even with a plow. Pushing a snowblower to work is quite another.
>
> Nothing for it, then. Go down to Home Depot, hire yourself a bunch of
> day laborers, and hand them each a snow shovel.

HD's around here don't have guys waiting for work
 
i used to nordic ski on bike paths when it snowed in the East. I
remember getting really ****** when "my" bike paths got plowed.

How about a bike with tank tracks for grooming, not plowing, bike paths?
 
Alan Holmes wrote:
> "what does THIS button do?" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Depending on where you are reading this, you may know that one of my
> > coworkers developed bicycle towed snow plow which he uses to help keep
> > a MUP open in our car-clogged suburb of Chicago.
>
> Has this idiot not noticed the letter 'uk' in the header, and if he has, is
> he not aware that these letters indicate that this newsgroup is aimed at the
> inhabitants of a small island just off the west coast of europe, that is if
> he knows where europe is?
>
> Alan

He may be well aware. Of the cycling newsgroups, uk.rec.cycling is one
of the better ones. He may simply be going where he expects to get a
meaningful response.
 
In article <[email protected]>,
"[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:

> i used to nordic ski on bike paths when it snowed in the East. I
> remember getting really ****** when "my" bike paths got plowed.
>
> How about a bike with tank tracks for grooming, not plowing, bike paths?

we hear that a lot! What the snowplow guy does is to plow a single
strip and leave the rest; walkers tend to trope to the plowed section,
leaving a v nice area for skiers.
 
In chi.general Scott en Aztl?n <[email protected]> wrote:
: "what does THIS button do?" <[email protected]> said in chi.general:

: >The main drawback of the bikeplow system is that the bike needs to be
: >in front of the plow, towing. Not pushing. In the snow. And the bike
: >has to be above a certain critical speed for balancing yadda yadda
: >yadda, the plow has trouble with heavy, wet, or icy underlayers. The
: >plow is 10^6 better than nothing, but there is a bit of room for
: >improvement.

: Tow the plow with a snowmobile.

I think max should post this in alt.amish.plowing for a more meaningful
reply... that said, I suspect that rigging a self propelled snowblower
would take too long to do the trail and that dragging a weighted 2x8
behind a bike isn't going to cut it either... not sure what other options
you have since there isn't a lot of torque and the risk of going over the
handle bars if you get a running start would be high...

How long is this trail? Maybe just walking it with a gas powered snowblower
would suffice? Does your park district plow it? (In Chicago the park district
will plow the loops in the parks a day or so after snow)

--
John Nelson
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chicago Area Paddling/Fishing Page
http://www.chicagopaddling.org http://www.chicagofishing.org
(A Non-Commercial Web Site: No Sponsors, No Paid Ads and Nothing to Sell)
 
In article <[email protected]>, fluffy bunny wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
> "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> i used to nordic ski on bike paths when it snowed in the East. I
>> remember getting really ****** when "my" bike paths got plowed.
>>
>> How about a bike with tank tracks for grooming, not plowing, bike paths?
>
>we hear that a lot! What the snowplow guy does is to plow a single
>strip and leave the rest; walkers tend to trope to the plowed section,
>leaving a v nice area for skiers.

There were some photos showing that quite nicely linked from the original
post. But on the subject of tracked bikes, I don't think anyone has
posted a link to this yet: http://www.ktrakcycle.com/
(Half-track fitting for a bike, optional ski front.)

I have no idea whether it really works as well as claimed - I suspect
studded tyres might be better on hard packed snow - but it might be worth
a look.
 
In chi.general Alan Holmes <[email protected]> wrote:

: "what does THIS button do?" <[email protected]> wrote in message
: news:[email protected]...
: > Depending on where you are reading this, you may know that one of my
: > coworkers developed bicycle towed snow plow which he uses to help keep
: > a MUP open in our car-clogged suburb of Chicago.

: Has this idiot not noticed the letter 'uk' in the header, and if he has, is
: he not aware that these letters indicate that this newsgroup is aimed at the
: inhabitants of a small island just off the west coast of europe, that is if
: he knows where europe is?

Hmmmm... uk... do those initials stand for something?

Being on a "small island" I suppose you don't use cars...

--
John Nelson
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chicago Area Paddling/Fishing Page
http://www.chicagopaddling.org http://www.chicagofishing.org
(A Non-Commercial Web Site: No Sponsors, No Paid Ads and Nothing to Sell)
 
[email protected] wrote:
>
> Alan Holmes wrote:
> > "what does THIS button do?" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > Depending on where you are reading this, you may know that one of my
> > > coworkers developed bicycle towed snow plow which he uses to help keep
> > > a MUP open in our car-clogged suburb of Chicago.
> >
> > Has this idiot not noticed the letter 'uk' in the header, and if he has, is
> > he not aware that these letters indicate that this newsgroup is aimed at the
> > inhabitants of a small island just off the west coast of europe, that is if
> > he knows where europe is?
> >
> > Alan
>
> He may be well aware. Of the cycling newsgroups, uk.rec.cycling is one
> of the better ones. He may simply be going where he expects to get a
> meaningful response.

I think Alan just need to RTFP. Or maybe it's an understanding problem
that reading alone can cure...

trent
 
Chicago Paddling-Fishing <[email protected]> said in chi.general:

>I think max should post this in alt.amish.plowing for a more meaningful
>reply...

Wow, you mean the Amish have found a way to post to USENET without
computers, Internet access, or electricity? I'm definitely impressed!
--
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
- Jonathan Swift
 
"Scott en Aztlán" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Chicago Paddling-Fishing <[email protected]> said in chi.general:
>
>>I think max should post this in alt.amish.plowing for a more meaningful
>>reply...
>
> Wow, you mean the Amish have found a way to post to USENET without
> computers, Internet access, or electricity? I'm definitely impressed!

Before Electricity, we used to watch TV by candlelight.




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