pedal removal threads L R

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by G.Daniels, Feb 18, 2004.

  1. G.Daniels

    G.Daniels Guest

    PEDAL REMOVAl

    "When tightening or removing pedals rather than remembering which is right threaded and which is
    left threaded, just point the wrench handle toward the front of the bike and push down to tighten
    and point to the rear to push down and loosen." Scott Summers apo ae from the third hand catalogue

    When using the following foot on pedal wrench on wood block method (FOPWOW) think backwards from the
    above from Scott

    &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

    FOPWOW!!! REDUCING CHAIN RING IMPALEMENT!!! 30 lbs foot acre delivery at the shaft.

    a large vise grips fits in the teeth of a 14/15mm wrench serving as the pedal wrench. Also possible
    to use only a wrench but length helps manipulate the rig for the first time user.

    clean the pedal shafts rear end with brush, utility razor, and PCBLASTER for a week: soaking,
    cleaning the hind end(avoiding pulling two many atoms thru the crank threads) and soaking with
    PCBlaster (allow for gravity-sit the frame on its side for soaking in a cool area)off course.

    then letter smoke with the propane torch Heat hind end if seals abound or all if no
    seals,tillit smokes,

    place the tool on the blocks then push the pedal DO NOT turn the pedal's shaft. one does not turn
    the pedal shaft.one does not turn the pedal shaft.one does not turn the pedal shaft.one does not
    turn the pedal shaft.

    block the wrench wood block device up from the ground. you gotta choreograph this as allowing the
    crank/pedal shaft cooling time while you pull your finger out figuring this out doesn't follow...not
    cool! the tool is blocked (you know tuba4's) up THEN THE MECHANIC GENTLYGENTLYGENTLY SQUEEZES DOWN
    ON THE PEDAL with the left hand no dummy with a foot.and merrilymerrilymerrily the expletive deleted
    comes loose a caveat! somesay extra cautions are to be used with some aluminum cranks as the foot
    torque can immediatley exceed the available metallurgry

    one must attentively keep in mind as he approaches the bike that threads can be left and right
    handed. As above from Scott
     
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  2. Rick Onanian

    Rick Onanian Guest

    On 18 Feb 2004 09:15:38 -0800, [email protected] (g.daniels) wrote:
    >"When tightening or removing pedals rather than remembering which is right threaded and which is
    >left threaded, just point the wrench handle toward the front of the bike and push down to tighten
    >and point to the rear to push down and loosen."

    Additionally, when removing the pedals, put the crank forward, so your wrench is parallel (or angled
    up slightly, but will soon be parallel) to the crank arm. The result is that as you push down on the
    wrench, it tries to drive the bike forward; brace the bike well and very tough pedals come out
    relatively easily.

    If you need to use your foot on the wrench, it becomes even easier, because then you can easily hold
    the rear brake engaged while pressing the wrench with your foot.

    >FOPWOW!!! REDUCING CHAIN RING IMPALEMENT!!! 30 lbs foot acre delivery at the shaft.

    The method I describe may be done with boots if you've got chainring impalement issues.

    >a large vise grips fits in the teeth of a 14/15mm wrench serving as

    Huh? Into what 'teeth' of the 14/15mm wrench does a vise-grip fit?

    >the pedal wrench. Also possible to use only a wrench but length helps manipulate the rig for the
    >first time user.

    Somebody seeking more leverage can use a pipe just large enough to fit the end of the wrench, or can
    buy an inexpensive pedal wrench. I have a Pedro's 15mm pedal wrench that is very nice and provides
    loads of leverage, and even a pleasant rubber-coated handle.

    >clean the pedal shafts rear end with brush, utility razor, and

    Uh huhuhuh hey beavis, you said "shaft". Then you said "rear end".

    >PCBLASTER for a week: soaking, cleaning the hind end(avoiding pulling two many atoms thru the crank
    >threads) and soaking with PCBlaster (allow for gravity-sit the frame on its side for soaking in a
    >cool area)off course.

    PCBLASTER must be a penetrating oil?

    >then letter smoke with the propane torch Heat hind end if seals abound or all if no
    >seals,tillit smokes,

    The "first time user" of which you speak won't know if there are any seals, or for that
    matter, walrii.

    >place the tool on the blocks then push the pedal

    I guess with the crankarm pointing backwards?

    >DO NOT turn the pedal's shaft. one does not turn the pedal shaft.one does not turn the pedal
    >shaft.one does not turn the pedal shaft.one does not turn the pedal shaft.

    By "pedal shaft", do you mean the pedal's spindle, or the crankarm?

    >block the wrench wood block device up from the ground. you gotta choreograph this as allowing the
    >crank/pedal shaft cooling time while you pull your finger out figuring this out doesn't
    >follow...not cool!

    You mean, let it cool before you touch it? Anybody who can't figure that out...well, they probably
    can't decipher your posts.

    >the tool is blocked (you know tuba4's) up THEN THE MECHANIC

    "What's a 2 by 4?" "Oh, a twelve piece band."

    >GENTLYGENTLYGENTLY SQUEEZES DOWN ON THE PEDAL with the left hand no dummy with a foot.and
    >merrilymerrilymerrily the expletive deleted comes loose a caveat! somesay extra cautions are to be
    >used with some aluminum cranks as the foot torque can immediatley exceed the available metallurgry

    If the torque required to remove the pedal exceeds the crankarm's strength, then you're probably
    screwed no matter how you do it. You've probably also changed the properties of the metal when you
    used the blow-torch a few steps back.

    >one must attentively keep in mind as he approaches the bike that threads can be left and right
    >handed. As above from Scott

    Here's a simple way to do it, as I described at the top of this message: http://tinyurl.com/jx1x
    --
    Rick Onanian
     
  3. Jobst Brandt

    Jobst Brandt Guest

    Because this subject arises often, there is an FAQ item about it:

    Subject: 8i.5 Stuck Pedal Removal

    > What's the trick to removing pedals? Of the three times that I have tried to remove my pedals
    > (I have two bikes and am in the process of exchanging/switching pedals) I have only succeeded
    > once. The main problem is the pedals have been put on very tightly and I can't even budge the
    > damn thing.

    Left and right pedals have left and right threads respectively, and are best removed with a long
    handled 15mm pedal wrench. Rather than using any clever wrench orientation or other methods to
    determine which way to tighten or loosen pedals, use the rule that rotating "forward" (as the wheels
    of the bicycle do) tightens and rotating "backward" loosens.

    Pedals are often made with tight fitting threads in an effort to improve the hold of this poorly
    designed mechanical interface. The intent is to prevent relative motion under load although they
    move anyway. It that were not the case, the threads would not need to be left and right handed.
    That they move is also apparent from damage where the pedal axle frets against the crank face, the
    main causes of crank failures at the pedal eye. Besides damaging the crank face, fretting motion
    depletes thread lubrication and causes galling (aka welding) so that pedals often cannot be
    removed forcefully without damaging pedal shafts, wrenches, or cranks so that forceful removal
    strips threads.

    To remove "frozen" pedals from an aluminum crank, remove the crank and pedal from the BB spindle,
    heat the pedal end of the crank over gas flame cooking stove until it sizzles to the wet touch.
    Using a pedal wrench, the pedal usually unscrews relatively easily without damage. If a lubricated
    pedal with clean threads does not screw in easily, a thread tap should be run through the crank to
    prevent galling on insertion. This is best done on the bicycle, where the crank is held firmly by
    the BB and prevented from rotation by the chain. To keep chain tension to a minimum (so the rear
    wheel does not spin), keep the pedal wrench as parallel to the crank as possible rather than as an
    extension to the crank.

    Jobst Brandt [email protected]
     
  4. B A R R Y

    B A R R Y Guest

    I didn't see it mentioned yet, so I will.

    Whenever possible, put the chain on the big ring when working on the drive side pedal. If the wrench
    slips the chain will prevent the teeth from poking holes in your hands.

    Don't ask how I learned this!

    Barry
     
  5. [email protected] wrote:
    > Because this subject arises often, there is an FAQ item about it:
    >
    > Subject: 8i.5 Stuck Pedal Removal
    >
    >> What's the trick to removing pedals? Of the three times that I have tried to remove my pedals
    >> (I have two bikes and am in the process of exchanging/switching pedals) I have only succeeded
    >> once. The main problem is the pedals have been put on very tightly and I can't even budge the
    >> damn thing.
    >
    > Left and right pedals have left and right threads respectively, and are best removed with a long
    > handled 15mm pedal wrench. Rather than using any clever wrench orientation or other methods to
    > determine which way to tighten or loosen pedals, use the rule that rotating "forward" (as the
    > wheels of the bicycle do) tightens and rotating "backward" loosens.
    >
    > Pedals are often made with tight fitting threads in an effort to improve the hold of this poorly
    > designed mechanical interface. The intent is to prevent relative motion under load although they
    > move anyway. It that were not the case, the threads would not need to be left and right handed.
    > That they move is also apparent from damage where the pedal axle frets against the crank face, the
    > main causes of crank failures at the pedal eye. Besides damaging the crank face, fretting motion
    > depletes thread lubrication and causes galling (aka welding) so that pedals often cannot be
    > removed forcefully without damaging pedal shafts, wrenches, or cranks so that forceful removal
    > strips threads.
    >
    > To remove "frozen" pedals from an aluminum crank, remove the crank and pedal from the BB spindle,
    > heat the pedal end of the crank over gas flame cooking stove until it sizzles to the wet touch.
    > Using a pedal wrench, the pedal usually unscrews relatively easily without damage. If a lubricated
    > pedal with clean threads does not screw in easily, a thread tap should be run through the crank to
    > prevent galling on insertion. This is best done on the bicycle, where the crank is held firmly by
    > the BB and prevented from rotation by the chain. To keep chain tension to a minimum (so the rear
    > wheel does not spin), keep the pedal wrench as parallel to the crank as possible rather than as an
    > extension to the crank.
    >
    > Jobst Brandt [email protected]

    Why does nobody ever mention using a Hex Wrench? All the pedals I have can be removed using either a
    Hex Wrench or a Pedal wrench.

    --
    Perre

    You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.
     
  6. B A R R Y

    B A R R Y Guest

    On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 00:11:51 GMT, "Per Elmsäter"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Why does nobody ever mention using a Hex Wrench? All the pedals I have can be removed using either
    >a Hex Wrench or a Pedal wrench.

    I use 'em all the time, but they aren't much use if the pedal is stuck. In that case the leverage
    provided by a good pedal wrench, or a good wrench with a pipe on it, is required.

    Barry
     
  7. Jobst Brandt

    Jobst Brandt Guest

    Per Elms?ter writes:

    > Why does nobody ever mention using a Hex Wrench? All the pedals I have can be removed using either
    > a Hex Wrench or a Pedal wrench.

    The hex socket is 6mm while the wrench flats are 15mm. The difference in strength of a 6mm Allan
    wrench and a 15mm pedal wrench is about
    4:1. I don't think a 250mm extension on a 6mm hex key could be expected to work. Most pedal
    wrenches have at least a 250mm long handle. Since pedals are notoriously difficult to remove,
    the hex wrench is usually not an option.

    Jobst Brandt [email protected]
     
  8. Jay Beattie

    Jay Beattie Guest

    <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Per Elms?ter writes:
    >
    > > Why does nobody ever mention using a Hex Wrench? All the
    pedals I
    > > have can be removed using either a Hex Wrench or a Pedal
    wrench.
    >
    > The hex socket is 6mm while the wrench flats are 15mm. The
    difference
    > in strength of a 6mm Allan wrench and a 15mm pedal wrench is
    about
    > 4:1. I don't think a 250mm extension on a 6mm hex key could be expected to work. Most pedal
    > wrenches have at least a 250mm
    long
    > handle. Since pedals are notoriously difficult to remove, the
    hex
    > wrench is usually not an option.

    It is sometimes the only option with certain models of Time and Shimano (and probably other) pedals
    that do not have wrench flats and use only a 6 or 8mm hex fitting. This was another "advance" in
    technology -- eliminate the wrench flats to move the pedal body closer to crank, presumably to
    increase lean angle. -- Jay Beattie.
     
  9. Jonesy

    Jonesy Guest

    [email protected] wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Per Elms?ter writes:
    >
    > > Why does nobody ever mention using a Hex Wrench? All the pedals I have can be removed using
    > > either a Hex Wrench or a Pedal wrench.
    >
    > The hex socket is 6mm while the wrench flats are 15mm. The difference in strength of a 6mm Allan
    > wrench and a 15mm pedal wrench is about
    > 4:1. I don't think a 250mm extension on a 6mm hex key could be expected to work. Most pedal
    > wrenches have at least a 250mm long handle. Since pedals are notoriously difficult to
    > remove, the hex wrench is usually not an option.

    My MTB has Crank Brothers' Mallet C pedals. There are no wrench flats. I do not use a hex key, but a
    hex *socket* with 1/2" drive. Like this:

    http://www.jmtools.com/details.asp?Itemid=07-1024

    The socket wrench lever arm provides plenty of torque, and the hex sockets allow me to use a torque
    wrench to get the pedals "tight enough, but not too tight."

    These things work great for almost all the bike fasteners. Crank bolts, stem and bar bolts, and all
    to the proper torque. I really like using a socket wrench on the stuff that has to be done up tight.

    Regards,

    R.F. Jones.
     
  10. G.Daniels

    G.Daniels Guest

    remove the chain from the CR. god help us. buy a propane torch. do not leave the torch burning or
    shut off as some don't use red loctite on the pedal shaft threads. the stuff crumbles when heated
    and lubes the threads unthreading. the fopwow method is folprof. but use the foot. the foot pushes
    down on the pedal(down as in opposite of up) while the wrench rests on a wooden block. red loctite
    teaches organization. and resolve.regard all red loctite with extreme suspicion. visegrips mate
    wrench: good too! place the grips into the wrench jaws and clamp onto the wrench shaft. always use
    an open end wrench here. use the foot not your head.
     
  11. Rick Onanian

    Rick Onanian Guest

    On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 08:49:38 -0800, "Jay Beattie"
    <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> handle. Since pedals are notoriously difficult to remove, the hex wrench is usually not an
    >> option.
    >
    >It is sometimes the only option with certain models of Time and Shimano (and probably other) pedals
    >that do not have wrench flats and use only a 6 or 8mm hex fitting. This was another "advance" in
    >technology -- eliminate the wrench flats to move the pedal body closer to crank, presumably to
    >increase lean angle. -- Jay

    Egg Beaters have no wrench flats. The body isn't close to the crank, though; there's room for two
    wrenches in that space, but the spindle appears thinner than 15mm, and maybe they would have had to
    make it thicker to work well with wrench flats...
    --
    Rick Onanian
     
  12. S O R N I

    S O R N I Guest

    Rick Onanian wrote:
    > Egg Beaters have no wrench flats.

    Mine do.

    Bill "two pair" S.
     
  13. DiabloScott

    DiabloScott New Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2003
    Messages:
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    Just helped my buddy put on his Lance DA pedals - 8mm allen, no wrench flats. There's a little room in there for a wrench, but it's pretty close. Maybe the spindle is too big for a 15mm and they didn't want to require a new tool for a bigger fit.
     
  14. David

    David Guest

    u crack me up. and so does everyones serious response

    heheh

    david

    "g.daniels" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > remove the chain from the CR. god help us. buy a propane torch. do not leave the torch burning or
    > shut off as some don't use red loctite on the pedal shaft threads. the stuff crumbles when heated
    > and lubes the threads unthreading. the fopwow method is folprof. but use the foot. the foot pushes
    > down on the pedal(down as in opposite of up) while the wrench rests on a wooden block. red loctite
    > teaches organization. and resolve.regard all red loctite with extreme suspicion. visegrips mate
    > wrench: good too! place the grips into the wrench jaws and clamp onto the wrench shaft. always use
    > an open end wrench here. use the foot not your head.
     
  15. G.Daniels

    G.Daniels Guest

    after the uh shaft comes out. yeah!! orgasmic dude!! clean threads with old athletic sock cut into
    strips. the insides soaked in solvent are ace. thread an old sock strip soaked in paint thinner into
    the hole. thread the strip around. stay upwind.this stuff is deadly stupid. people die from it. just
    takes awhile. remove strip. if yawl have acetone. thread another old strip in and then then pour a
    bit of acetone on it both sides walk away upwind and let set for???? coffee break. Cut an old
    spoke(not the Ti), bend tip with lineman's pliers available at the hardware store to 90 degress
    after filing a nice diamond tip to the biz end or a curved tip. spokes file exceptionally well.
    remove acetoned sock. carve out the factory or yawl's locktite from the crank's threads.with the
    spoke.duhduhduh let dry. shake red loctite tube squeeze bottom. find shaft wrench. find shaft
    wrench.xpletive deleted shaft wrench. place shafte wrench immediatley adjacent wrench hand. for
    example if yawl left handed, place the shaft wrench near the left hand. thread the dry shaft in for
    a dry run. examine your situation. are the ants crawling up yawl leg? is the coffee boiling over?
    run locktite onto the crank threads.run locktite onto the shaft threads. screw shaft in. tighten
    shaft tight. paws. tighten again squeeze down on it a bit and hold 3-4 secs. allow cure. run linseed
    over the shaft and cranc k both sides. turn bike on side and let linseed run up to the seals. how
    can yawl tell?? see 7-8 speed adaptors in search bike tech.
     
  16. Rick Onanian

    Rick Onanian Guest

    On 23 Feb 2004 08:57:14 -0800, [email protected] (g.daniels) wrote:
    >after the uh shaft comes out. yeah!! orgasmic dude!!

    Easy there, gene...this is a family newsfroup.
    --
    Rick Onanian
     
  17. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    g.daniels wrote:
    > after the uh shaft comes out. yeah!! orgasmic dude!! clean threads
    -snip clean pedal threads; pedal installation -
    > let dry. shake red loctite tube squeeze bottom.
    -snip not as good as Gene's "chicken blood" wheel truing directions [27 Sept, 2002] but pretty
    good anyway-

    Why not just grease the thread?

    --
    Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971
     
  18. G.Daniels

    G.Daniels Guest

    Why not just grease the thread? asks ace muzi! well. the theives will not remove the red locktited
    set the loctite waterproofs the threads inside. the linseed outside. and when heated for removal,
    the crumbled locktite lubes the "threads unthreading" and off course, no unscrewing when least
    wanted or most wanted!
     
  19. Jobst Brandt

    Jobst Brandt Guest

    G? Daniels writes:

    > Why not just grease the thread? Asks ace muzi! Well. the theives will not remove the red locktited
    > set the loctite waterproofs the threads inside. the linseed outside. And when heated for removal,
    > the crumbled locktite lubes the "threads unthreading" and off course, no unscrewing when least
    > wanted or most wanted!

    Well that scenario doesn't hold water, so to speak. Pedal thieves, just as the rest of us, use a
    pedal wrench to remove pedals. Loctite doesn't prevent pedal fretting either so the pedal breaks
    loose from the Loctite anyway and water can intrude if it wants to but then water in these threads
    has never been a problem for the kind of pedals if the thread is lubricated on installation.

    Jobst Brandt [email protected]
     
  20. G.Daniels

    G.Daniels Guest

    well. a thought occured to me on greaser muzi's post and that is grease evaporates and washes off
    in water. posts appear touting this grease or that grease for use on threads. As the greasers
    seem to inspect the bolts for grease put thereon, its my geuss the greasers then at that time add
    more grease??

    then JB. and i want to get up and dance dance dance. a post with grate rythem. tis' the season!!

    red loctite liberally applied and the pedals do not come off unless heated to 270 degrees. That
    factor reduces pedal theft. Have i suffered a pedal theft. Yup. a try anyway. The redloctite applied
    lioberally seqls the interior threads the outside is left up to the owner. gotta cover the loctite
    with something waterproof.

    neverseize and a combination of neversieze and linseed or plain linseed on greased threads is
    probabley more effective than just "grease" even silicone grease. if the pedals gotta come off...
    but if the pedals do not need routine switching with other sets then the one on there might as well
    stay on there till worn out then removed with ease not the standard snafu well heard here.

    inspect the pedals spin before installation and after breakin for JB's bearing preload
    qualifications. The pedals i installed recently, leading to this outburst, spun with a
    rising/falling pitch-elliptical bearing path-and probably need a rebuild with new bearings and
    teflon grease once the factory setup seats. not Brown's these pedals are really smooth. like we shud
    all go over to haris and roll his bearings! think i'll try the bon ami grinding compound breakin.
     
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