Pedalling technique

Discussion in 'UK and Europe' started by soup, Oct 23, 2004.

  1. soup

    soup Guest

    Was just out with the eldest and he was saying the chap
    that took them for "cycling proficiency" had told them that
    while peddaling up a hill you should put the power through
    your heel, I was saying that was nonsence and that clipless
    pedals don't even give you the option (ball of the foot over
    the pedal axle)and clipped pedals hold your feet from going
    too far forward, in fact the only time I can think of your heels
    being on the pedals is to get the height of the saddle correct .
    Does anyone havea link to a website that shows the
    "proper" technique or have heard of this "power through
    the heels"idea ?

    --
    yours S

    Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione
     
    Tags:


  2. Call me Bob

    Call me Bob Guest

    On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 16:00:56 GMT, "soup"
    <[email protected]> wrote:


    >Does anyone havea link to a website that shows the
    >"proper" technique or have heard of this "power through
    >the heels"idea ?


    Unlikely, this heel idea is nonsense, as you thought.

    Using heel only would effectively remove your calf muscles from the
    equation. Bloody silly idea.
    --

    "Bob"

    'The people have spoken, the bastards'

    Email address is spam trapped.
    To reply directly remove the beverage.
     
  3. MSA

    MSA Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    [email protected] says...
    > On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 16:00:56 GMT, "soup"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >
    > >Does anyone havea link to a website that shows the
    > >"proper" technique or have heard of this "power through
    > >the heels"idea ?

    >
    > Unlikely, this heel idea is nonsense, as you thought.
    >
    > Using heel only would effectively remove your calf muscles from the
    > equation. Bloody silly idea.
    >


    All I can think that he is referring to is the technique of keeping the
    heel down during the pedal stroke. May cyclists raise their heels when
    using clips and this does nothing for output.

    2 years ago I made a conscious effort to keep my foot level during the
    revolution and now it comes naturally. My power output has increased.


    --
    Mark (MSA)
    This post is packaged by intellectual weight, not volume. Some settling
    of contents may have occurred during transmission
     
  4. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    soup wrote:
    > Was just out with the eldest and he was saying the chap
    > that took them for "cycling proficiency" had told them that
    > while peddaling up a hill you should put the power through
    > your heel,


    Good grief. I hope all the other kids listen to your kid and ignore the
    "instructor".

    > I was saying that was nonsence and that clipless
    > pedals don't even give you the option (ball of the foot over
    > the pedal axle)and clipped pedals hold your feet from going
    > too far forward, in fact the only time I can think of your heels
    > being on the pedals is to get the height of the saddle correct .


    Even that's not reliable, IMHO.

    > Does anyone havea link to a website that shows the
    > "proper" technique or have heard of this "power through
    > the heels"idea ?


    No, it's bo11ocks.

    ~PB
     
  5. Simon Proven

    Simon Proven Guest

    soup wrote:

    >[deleted]


    How about "Sports socks. Eyaaah sports socks! Two fur a pouuund. Two
    fur a pound!"
     
  6. Velvet

    Velvet Guest

    MSA wrote:
    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > [email protected] says...
    >
    >>On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 16:00:56 GMT, "soup"
    >><[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>>Does anyone havea link to a website that shows the
    >>>"proper" technique or have heard of this "power through
    >>>the heels"idea ?

    >>
    >>Unlikely, this heel idea is nonsense, as you thought.
    >>
    >>Using heel only would effectively remove your calf muscles from the
    >>equation. Bloody silly idea.
    >>

    >
    >
    > All I can think that he is referring to is the technique of keeping the
    > heel down during the pedal stroke. May cyclists raise their heels when
    > using clips and this does nothing for output.
    >
    > 2 years ago I made a conscious effort to keep my foot level during the
    > revolution and now it comes naturally. My power output has increased.
    >
    >


    I cycle naturally in a 'heels down' method. Toes down just doesn't
    work, and in fact leads to cramp in short order. I *think* it's come
    about from previously riding horses, where heels down is fairly
    important, and the fact that heels-down allows me to have my saddle
    lower than it would have to be if I cycled toes-down. I don't use
    clipless, but find it's not a problem for the foot slipping off the
    pedal (I use those zefal toe-cup things) - and I can in fact get power
    through part of the upper 'forwardly' part of hte stroke, but
    surprisingly also some of the bottom 'backwardly' bit.

    I have no idea if it makes any real difference, cos I've no way of
    measuring, but it certainly feels better than horizontal or pointed.
    Pointed just feels *wrong*. Plus, I've a vague idea heels down might
    stop the shortening of the ligaments on the back of the legs when lots
    of cycling's done, though in practice I've felt mine getting tighter
    following a stint of regular training, no idea if the toe-pointers get
    it worse than I did though.

    --


    Velvet
     
  7. PK

    PK Guest

    soup wrote:
    > Was just out with the eldest and he was saying the chap
    > that took them for "cycling proficiency" had told them that
    > while peddaling up a hill you should put the power through
    > your heel, I was saying that was nonsence and that clipless
    > pedals don't even give you the option (ball of the foot over
    > the pedal axle)and clipped pedals hold your feet from going
    > too far forward, in fact the only time I can think of your heels
    > being on the pedals is to get the height of the saddle correct .
    > Does anyone havea link to a website that shows the
    > "proper" technique or have heard of this "power through
    > the heels"idea ?




    The tutor has the right idea but the wrong way of describing it:

    see; http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index.php/t-33289

    and

    http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ca...cyc.ps.Z+cycling+technique+heel&hl=en&start=3

    or for the very technically minded

    http://www.tri-ecoach.com/art13.htm

    pk
     
  8. Whingin' Pom

    Whingin' Pom Guest

    On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 18:08:05 GMT, Simon Proven
    <[email protected]> () wrote:

    >soup wrote:
    >
    > >[deleted]

    >
    >How about "Sports socks. Eyaaah sports socks! Two fur a pouuund. Two
    >fur a pound!"


    Lighters! A quid fer foive! Getcha lighters!

    <to OP>
    Maybe the instructor rides a recumbent? Heels down is the only way to
    go, then

    ..--
    Matt K.
    "Always do what you are afraid to do. (Ralph Waldo Emerson)"
     
  9. David Martin

    David Martin Guest

    On 23/10/04 7:53 pm, in article [email protected],
    "Whingin' Pom" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 18:08:05 GMT, Simon Proven
    > <[email protected]> () wrote:
    >
    >> soup wrote:
    >>
    >>> [deleted]

    >>
    >> How about "Sports socks. Eyaaah sports socks! Two fur a pouuund. Two
    >> fur a pound!"

    >
    > Lighters! A quid fer foive! Getcha lighters!


    Or for Londoners..

    Staaaaaanat, Eeeein Staaaaanat

    ...d
     
  10. soup

    soup Guest

    soup popped their head over the parapet saw what was going on and said
    > Was just out with the eldest and he was saying the chap
    > that took them for "cycling proficiency" had told them that
    > while peddaling up a hill you should put the power through
    > your heel, I was saying that was nonsence and that clipless
    > pedals don't even give you the option (ball of the foot over
    > the pedal axle)and clipped pedals hold your feet from going
    > too far forward, in fact the only time I can think of your heels
    > being on the pedals is to get the height of the saddle correct .
    > Does anyone havea link to a website that shows the
    > "proper" technique or have heard of this "power through
    > the heels"idea ?


    Thanks all looks like the eldest got the wrong end of the
    stick and what the instructor actually was describing was
    "ankling". He heard "heel" "pedal" put two and two
    together and got five.

    --
    yours S

    Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione
     
  11. Ian Smith

    Ian Smith Guest

    On Sat, 23 Oct 2004, soup <[email protected]> wrote:
    > soup popped their head over the parapet saw what was going on and said
    > > Was just out with the eldest and he was saying the chap
    > > that took them for "cycling proficiency" had told them that
    > > while peddaling up a hill you should put the power through
    > > your heel,

    >
    > Thanks all looks like the eldest got the wrong end of the
    > stick and what the instructor actually was describing was
    > "ankling". He heard "heel" "pedal" put two and two
    > together and got five.


    That's what I thought - possibly the instructor was trying to explain
    it like all these martial arts chappies who seem to want your weight
    in your bladder.

    regards, Ian SMith
    --
    |\ /| no .sig
    |o o|
    |/ \|
     
  12. Dave Kahn

    Dave Kahn Guest

    On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 20:25:12 +0100, David Martin
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On 23/10/04 7:53 pm, in article [email protected],
    >"Whingin' Pom" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 18:08:05 GMT, Simon Proven
    >> <[email protected]> () wrote:
    >>
    >>> soup wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> [deleted]
    >>>
    >>> How about "Sports socks. Eyaaah sports socks! Two fur a pouuund. Two
    >>> fur a pound!"

    >>
    >> Lighters! A quid fer foive! Getcha lighters!

    >
    >Or for Londoners..
    >
    >Staaaaaanat, Eeeein Staaaaanat


    There seems to be something of an outbreak of Cockney in the group
    tonight. We'll be having pearly king bibshorts next.

    (Ge' orf me barrer)

    --
    Dave...

    Get a bicycle. You will not regret it. If you live. - Mark Twain
     
  13. soup

    soup Guest

    Dave Kahn popped their head over the parapet saw what was going on and
    said

    > There seems to be something of an outbreak of Cockney in the group
    > tonight. We'll be having pearly king bibshorts next.
    >
    > (Ge' orf me barrer)


    Ohh miss e' swore e' said b*bsh*rts

    --
    yours S

    Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione
     
  14. Simon Brooke

    Simon Brooke Guest

    in message <[email protected]>, soup
    ('[email protected]') wrote:

    > Was just out with the eldest and he was saying the chap
    > that took them for "cycling proficiency" had told them that
    > while peddaling up a hill you should put the power through
    > your heel, I was saying that was nonsence and that clipless
    > pedals don't even give you the option (ball of the foot over
    > the pedal axle)and clipped pedals hold your feet from going
    > too far forward, in fact the only time I can think of your heels
    > being on the pedals is to get the height of the saddle correct .
    > Does anyone havea link to a website that shows the
    > "proper" technique or have heard of this "power through
    > the heels"idea ?


    This is lunacy and is merely indication that the people being employed
    to teach 'cycling proficiency' these days have probably never ridden a
    bicycle in their lives.

    Quick answer: no.

    --
    [email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

    to err is human, to lisp divine
    ;; attributed to Kim Philby, oddly enough.
     
  15. Dave Kahn

    Dave Kahn Guest

    On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 20:31:37 GMT, "soup"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Dave Kahn popped their head over the parapet saw what was going on and
    >said
    >
    >> There seems to be something of an outbreak of Cockney in the group
    >> tonight. We'll be having pearly king bibshorts next.
    >>
    >> (Ge' orf me barrer)

    >
    >Ohh miss e' swore e' said b*bsh*rts


    They're useful for tucking your thumbs into while performing cheery
    Cockney knees-ups.

    ('Ave a bernarnar).

    --
    Dave...

    Get a bicycle. You will not regret it. If you live. - Mark Twain
     
  16. JohnB

    JohnB Guest

    Simon Brooke wrote:
    >
    > in message <[email protected]>, soup
    > ('[email protected]') wrote:
    >
    > > Was just out with the eldest and he was saying the chap
    > > that took them for "cycling proficiency" had told them that
    > > while peddaling up a hill you should put the power through
    > > your heel,....

    >
    > This is lunacy and is merely indication that the people being employed
    > to teach 'cycling proficiency' these days have probably never ridden a
    > bicycle in their lives.


    I teach cycle training and would also explain this ankling technique to
    more advanced riders. I am sure the 'chap' meant 'ankling'. It was
    taught to me many years ago although it does take some getting used to.
    For a reference I suggest John Franklin's Cyclecraft which has a very
    clear diagram and description and shows the ankle down position at the
    top and just beyond the start of the downward pedal stroke, ie the point
    of maximum power. This would equate to the comment (not very well put)
    of putting the power through the heel.
    Franklin says:
    "Another important rule of pedalling is to 'ankle' the pedals round: do
    not simply push them down. This means pivoting the foot at the ankle so
    that the toe is pointed slightly upwards at the top of the stroke [1]
    and downwards at the bottom. In this way you should aim to apply
    pressure to each pedal withyour foot for about three-quarters of its
    circle of travel. Aquiring a good pedalling style is important, and will
    help dispel the myth that cycling is hard work."

    [1] this of course means the heel is dropped.

    > Quick answer: no.


    I reckon there was some misinterpretation and he was in fact right.

    I agree there are some pretty poor instructors out there due to the
    nature of the volunteer system that has been used. I know of one LA
    instructor who couldn't even ride a bike.
    However things are rapidly improving now that there is a national
    standard for instructor training and a growth in professional training.

    John Buckley
    Hampshire Cycle Training
    http://www.hampshirecycletraining.org.uk/
     
  17. Simon Proven <[email protected]> wrote in
    news:[email protected]:

    > soup wrote:
    >
    > >[deleted]

    >
    > How about "Sports socks. Eyaaah sports socks! Two fur a pouuund. Two
    > fur a pound!"


    Socks with cycling shoes? Surely an heretical suggestion!

    --
    Chris
     
  18. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    JohnB wrote:
    > I teach cycle training and would also explain this ankling technique
    > to more advanced riders. I am sure the 'chap' meant 'ankling'. It was
    > taught to me many years ago although it does take some getting used
    > to. For a reference I suggest John Franklin's Cyclecraft which has a
    > very clear diagram and description and shows the ankle down position
    > at the top and just beyond the start of the downward pedal stroke, ie
    > the point of maximum power.


    Ankling is a controversial technique. Some believe it is damaging and
    inefficient. It's never felt right to me anyway (unless I do it slightly,
    subconsciously).

    > This would equate to the comment (not
    > very well put) of putting the power through the heel.


    Let's hope that generous interpretation is correct as it's better than
    actually pedalling with heels -- something that some people do do!

    ~PB
     
  19. "Pete Biggs" <pblackcherry{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc> wrote in
    news:[email protected]:

    > JohnB wrote:


    >>


    > Ankling is a controversial technique. Some believe it is damaging and
    > inefficient. It's never felt right to me anyway (unless I do it slightly,
    > subconsciously).
    >
    >> This would equate to the comment (not
    >> very well put) of putting the power through the heel.

    >
    > Let's hope that generous interpretation is correct as it's better than
    > actually pedalling with heels -- something that some people do do!


    When I did my cycling proficiency many moons ago, the instructor did teach us
    to pedal with the front of the foot rather than the middle (as I did then) or
    the heel (which I can't imagine). Since I got toe straps and then SPDs it
    hasn't been a problem anyway. FWIW I don't think putting the "power through
    the heel" means directly from the heel to the pedal, rather using the ankle
    as a lever.

    --
    Chris
     
  20. JohnB

    JohnB Guest

    Pete Biggs wrote:
    >
    > JohnB wrote:
    > > I teach cycle training and would also explain this ankling technique
    > > to more advanced riders. I am sure the 'chap' meant 'ankling'. It was
    > > taught to me many years ago although it does take some getting used
    > > to. For a reference I suggest John Franklin's Cyclecraft which has a
    > > very clear diagram and description and shows the ankle down position
    > > at the top and just beyond the start of the downward pedal stroke, ie
    > > the point of maximum power.

    >
    > Ankling is a controversial technique. Some believe it is damaging and
    > inefficient.


    I've never heard of it as being controversial or damaging.
    What are the reasons for this?
    Can you provide some references as I'm interested.
    Clearly Franklin considers it to be advantageous.

    > It's never felt right to me anyway (unless I do it slightly,
    > subconsciously).


    It is difficult to master. Perhaps you need more practice ;-)
    I must say I was surprised to hear it being raised within _child_
    cycle-proficiency training.
    I doubt whether it was 'approved' training, more likely the instructor
    was using some of his experience as a rider.

    > > This would equate to the comment (not
    > > very well put) of putting the power through the heel.

    >
    > Let's hope that generous interpretation is correct as it's better than
    > actually pedalling with heels -- something that some people do do!


    Anyone suggesting riding with the heels should not be teaching cycling.

    John B
     
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