Pedals and water

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by StevoNZ, Jan 29, 2015.

  1. dabac

    dabac Well-Known Member

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    The thing is that quality usually translates into both precision and longevity. As an occasional user I'm quite willing to skimp on longevity, but I may still need (near) pro precision for a tool to be useful for me.
     


  2. Froze

    Froze Well-Known Member

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    Yes, there is an element of truth to what you said, but if you buy a tool that may only get used once or twice in your lifetime there is no need for that expense to get the best. If you have a career where you need quality tools that's a different story. For the backyard mechanic to get precision tools today cost a bundle, you have to go to SnapOn, or Matco to get precision tools and they cost a lot of money, plus the return policy while great if your a pro mechanic because they come to you is a bit difficult for the back yard mechanic because they have to find a truck. Since all tools (besides the pro SnapOn, Matco, etc) are now made in China from the same manufacture, precision and longevity of a Kobalt vs a Pittsburgh is now the same, thus a person might was well save money and go to Harbor Freight.

    This issue of quality for the average tool didn't use to be a problem, so I'm glad I got my tools years ago. But for the non professional newbie trying to buy tools he/she basically only have 2 choices, buy a Chinese made tool or spend a lot and get an American made tool. There are some mail order tools a person could buy that has better quality, sort of in between the Chinese Kobalt, Craftsman, Pittsburgh type of stuff and the SnapOn, Matco type of stuff but if you ever break a tool you'll have to send it back and wait for a replacement, not an idea situation if you need it now to complete a job.

    There are some tools I would rarely use, like an expensive truing/dishing/tensioner tools. I true my wheels by using my brake pads as a guide than about every 8 to 10 years I take it in and a pro does the dishing and checks the tension, less money to pay a pro do it then it is to buy the tool! This occurs from time to time even on the auto side.
     
  3. dabac

    dabac Well-Known Member

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    Take routers - wood working power tools - and angle grinders as examples. A cheap angle grinder will have a rough start, and it's no problem running it hot to failure. An expensive one will have soft start, run quieter and just about never overheat. And since they're both handheld, the cuts and grinds they do are indistinguishable. And while the expensive ones sure are nice, I have no problem to make do with the cheap ones. But the routers... For me to have good use of a router, it has to be accurate enough to make repeated cuts at the same depth, and if I use the sideways jig, it has to stay in place and be rigid enough. So I might skimp on grinders, but routers and similar I have to buy to excess run time requirements only to get the accuracy I need. Dishing is real easy to check DIY. The guy behind Chain-L suggest this: -take three identical cans, put them on a table. Put wheel on table, rim resting on cans. Use a stack of washers or dimes or whatever to indicate distance from table to locknut. Flip wheel and compare.
     
  4. Froze

    Froze Well-Known Member

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    I won't buy cheap power tools, I was only talking about hand tools. Cheap power tools even for the average person will only last 5 years or so, and no one has a lifetime hassle free exchange warranty on cheap power tools, it's cheaper in the long run to buy really nice power tools than to keep having to buy cheap new ones frequently.
     
  5. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    I pile the cars, trucks, SUV's and tractors full of tools. If I'm out on the road or out in the field I want every chance of minimizing down time possible. I keep mainly mid-range tools in the vehicles. Even then, they are kept oiled, in craft paper and bagged in vapor-proof bags when applicable. I also choose even the few 'cheap' tools with care. Sometimes 'cheap' is a deal, but rarely so over a lifetime of use.

    Take care of your tools and your tools will take care of you. I'm still using the American-made tools my father used in the mid-1950's when he worked on diesel locomotives for the New York Central Railroad. It is a pleasure to use a quality tool and more so knowing they also served a previous generation(s) well. The high-end, all-steel tools feel good in the hand in a way the co-molded rubber and plastic stuff sold today never can.

    For the bicycles, motorcycles and in the garage and barn I prefer high end stuff. My life is on the line and even if it were not I refuse to bugger up (the already craptastic Chicom quality) fasteners and parts because of screwdrivers, wrenches and sockets that do not properly fit. I also hate cutting the Hell out of my hide because some junk, malformed, out-of-tolerance tool slipped or was not properly deburred.

    Some of those open-end Chicom wrenches can be used as a knife.

    Soft screwdriver tips, hammers with heads that come loose, water pump pliers that slip at the tongue & groove joint, sockets that crack, ratchet handles that strip...one trip to the store for a replacement or rebuild and any savings is long gone.

    Just as there are car guys and motorcycle guys and boat guys and gun guys and airplane guys and Campagnolo guys, there are Tool Guys. Life is too short to drive ugly cars, be seen on a moped or wrench with crappy tools.

    YMMV, of course.
     
  6. Froze

    Froze Well-Known Member

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    All my hand tools are made in America, but I bought those years ago in the 70's and 80's before China came on strong making tools, I even have some stuff made in the 60's and a open wrench made in the 50's that is very heavy for it's size and been used a lot and no wear marks? I don't know what it's made of but it's very good metal. Like I said earlier if I was buying tools today I would just go to Harbor Freight because they're the same quality as Home Depot, Menards, or Lowes sells but HF sells them for less and with a better warranty.

    I had a Makita 9.2 Drill I got in the early 80's when they first came out but it finally bit the dust so I had to buy another but when I priced Makita's, DeWalt's, and Milwaukee's (all these brands are made in China too, but they're top of the line stuff is supposedly made in the USA) with the steel innards but they were too expensive for how often I'll use them so I got a Rigid kit made in China but at least they have steel innards and a no hassle lifetime warranty that includes the batteries from Home Depot. I will be taking apart the Makita when I get around to it and see if I can clean the contact switch on the power switch, but I needed more power anyways to do a deck I was building so I'm not in a hurry to fix it.

    Funny I carry more tools on my bike then I do in my cars! I use to carry tools in my cars years ago but that was in the days of carburetion instead of computerized fuel injection, mechanical fuel pumps on the side of the engine block instead of in the gas tank, mechanical timing instead of computerized timing, and easy to reach hoses and hose clamps, so now when something goes wrong with a car there isn't much you can do on the side of the road. I carry some screwdrivers and a phillips driver in case a hose ruptures...assuming you can access the hose and the clamps in todays crap cars.

    I'm sort of tool guy, but most of my tools are for the older cars which I have several, and I have some newer tools for the newer hex etc bolts they now use; but I haven't invested in a scan tool since I have an Advance Auto about a mile from me and can use theirs for free! Then where I store my most of my cars my friend has a huge collection of tools so I just use his instead of dragging mine over to his place.
     
  7. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    Rigid has a kick ass warranty. I have a pair of Rigid shop vacs and they've held up well. I used to buy my Milwaukee stuff at Vato Depot, but lately Rural King is killing them on price. And yeah, Milwaukee's quality has declined alome with the rest. Their M18 'Fuel' line is killer, but I can see how much they've cut back on materials.

    I get a charge (get it?!) out of the DeWalt crowd. DW is owned by Black & Dick'er and even their best stuff might be from their facility in Mexico. A lot of the DW stuff has plastic guts, plastic bushings (no bearings or bronze bushings) and even their best stuff has powdered metal/sintered gears. And pictures of the the drill driver handles that snapped right off are all over the web.

    While no home owner might need a brushless motor (that the controllers suddenly crap out on because the Chicom circuit board couldn't take the heat!) or Li Ion or Li Polymer battery, the power, torque and run time was really appreciated when I did the Red Oak in the barn.

    [​IMG]

    The drill sits on the rubber stall mat and that was taken in 2009. The drill driver is still holding up well to the many jobs I've used it on. As much as I like it, I do not care for my Milwaukee cordless Sawzall. It kills batteries in just a few minutes. Like maybe three minutes of run time.

    The Milwaukee impact driver is 'the' tool you want for deck building.

    I need a better scan tool. Snap-On will probably get a wheel barrow load of cash for it, but theirs are the most flexible I've used.
     
  8. Froze

    Froze Well-Known Member

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    I had no problem using the Rigid impact driver to put my deck together, heck my friend that helped me used my Rigid drill and had no issues either except it went through the battery faster than the impact did and it was a bit slower obviously.

    I just can't justify spending that kind of money for a Snap On Scan tool, and they're not lifetime warrantied like the hand tools, plus you have to keep buying update software which isn't cheap either.
     
  9. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    Snap-On does my older vehicles and actually has the older adapters I use. There are...uh...'work arounds' for the software. A year or 2-year warranty is about standard...same as me el cheapo unit carries. Agree that they are not inexpensive. Justifying it is tough for most home mechanics. But, every time I drive past two of the morons' shops that screwed up my vehicles I sneer. For what one mistake cost me I could have had half of a Snap-On paid for.
     
  10. Froze

    Froze Well-Known Member

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    My problem is that I was raised on the old mechanical stuff, when the new computerized systems came out I was lost, so I just rather take it in and not be bothered with a huge learning curve, plus a lot of cars todays you have to remove half of the front end of the car to get to stuff which just drives me crazy that they have to build cars like that, maybe when I retire and I got the time to figure this stuff out I look into a scanner...I said maybe!
     
  11. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    Apparently, a lot of the pro mechanics are also 'lost' when it comes to electronic engine and transmission management! The only plus they have is a huge stock of pieces parts (read: sensors, ECM's, spark modules, coil packs, etc.) to swap out at will. Despite scanner codes as 'diagnosis' telling us what may or may not be at fault, educated guesses and a quick plug-n-play is usually the fastest way to resolve many issues. The 'pro' guy that changed my timing chain and gears while missing the failed $30 CPS no longer does work for me. Do you know how much a timing chain/gears cost, installed, in relation to even a Snap-On MT-2500? And that was only one of several 'mistakes' by the pro's when working on my vehicles over the last 25 years of the electronic era. There is much good to be said about owning cars built in the 1960's and earlier! And nobody will agree more with you that late model vehicles (trucks, as well as cars) are only built to be assembled. There is little to no thought about getting apart again for service. Then there is the whole 'Is this piece of shit 8-year old dog turd car even worth repairing?' when staring at a modern car the sits broken on the garage floor.
     
  12. Froze

    Froze Well-Known Member

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    All this electronic/computers in our cars isn't doing a whole a lot, I had a 1973 Dodge Charger with a 440 4 speed that ran the quarter in the low 13's and ran just a nick south of 180 mph and got 21 mpg on the highway. I had a friend who had a 72 Honda 600, this was car not a motorcycle, that got 70 mpg, another friend who had a 80's era Geo Metro that got 65 mpg. I will admit that some of the modern high performance cars like the Camaro, Mustang, and the Challenger overall get better gas mileage than their 60's and 70's era siblings but at what cost? The top of the line Mustang in 1969 (Mach 1) cost $3139 plus inflation and a top of the line Mustang today should cost $18,348 but instead the top of the line starts at $32,300; in exchange for that additional $13,952 you're paying for a new Mustang you get 25 mpg instead of 15, so how much gas would you have to buy to make it worth the additional $13,952? At $2.50 per gallon you could buy 5,581 gallons thus travel 55,810 miles, so if you keep the car for more than 55,000 miles it might be worth it but then you have to add in the cost of the much more expensive repairs and more costly tires, also since new cars are mostly plastic and electronics they won't age as well as the older cars that had little plastic and no electronics other then the radio, so you basically have a throw away car.
    Therein lies the problem. We had a 94 Chrysler Town and Country van back when we had kids and in 1999 the thing developed a short that when the radio was playing and you honked the horn the fuse would blow, no big deal I thought so I took it to Chrysler. They called me back to tell me they can't find the problem and the only way to try to find the problem was to completely gut the interior to get to the wiring harness to find the short which would cost between $1800 to $3200 depending on how far they would have to go into removing the interior before finding it. Or what about a heater core that requires the removal of the dash and $800 later you have a $32 heater core installed. Or a car's main computer fries and $1800 later it's fixed. Or a display screen that cost $1200 to repair. Or what about the problem that occurs but it doesn't throw a fault code so how does the mechanic, who is just a parts replacement person, suppose to find the problem? What about those damn fiber belted timing belts that have to be replaced ever so often for a cost of between $800 to $1200 and if you don't replace it and it breaks your engine is destroyed. The newer generation of Automatics can cost $3,500 to $6,500 to rebuild or replace. List goes on, which I'm sure Campy Bob understands.
     
  13. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    Quote by Froze:
    "Or what about a heater core that requires the removal of the dash and $800 later you have a $32 heater core installed."

    I've been on a couple of assembly line tours. Do you know how they build a vehicle?

    They start by putting a heater core on the first 6" of the assembly line and then proceed to build the vehicle around it!

    "Or a car's main computer fries and $1800 later it's fixed."

    I must be living right. I've replace a couple ECM's/ECU's and the most I've had to fork over was maybe $120. I've bought both new and re-manufactured ones.

    "Or a display screen that cost $1200 to repair."

    I was told the info-tainment-nav 'screen' (assuming it's the entire unit) in the dash of the car my wife drives is a $4,800 repair bill!!! Yeah, I bought the extra warranty insurance on both of the newest vehicles. I'm certain my skills could get the module R&R'd...hell, it's just some Plug&Play piece of shit from a Chicom electronics factory...but, with no guarantee on the install? No way in Hell I would do it after buying the part from the dealer.

    On stuff like that, we're trapped. Like carbon frames, it is either perfect or it's junk.

    "Or what about the problem that occurs but it doesn't throw a fault code so how does the mechanic, who is just a parts replacement person, suppose to find the problem?"

    By replacing one part after the other until he solves the problem. That is exactly how some issues get resolved. Like I said earlier, they just keep walking over to the parts department and swapping in 'test parts' until the problem goes away. You and I would go broke doing it that way, but it is often the fastest (and least expensive) option at a well stocked dealership.

    "What about those damn fiber belted timing belts that have to be replaced ever so often for a cost of between $800 to $1200 and if you don't replace it and it breaks your engine is destroyed."

    I ONLY buy vehicles with timing chains AND non-interference motors. End of story.

    Bent valves and belts that only go 60,000-100,000 miles are the definition of insanity. Years ago I lost a timing belt in a VW motor that Chrysler used (1.7 liter). It let go at 70 MPH on the interstate with 80-some K on the clock. Fortunately, it was non-interference and other than the detonation freaking me out, there was no damage to the engine. It did require a motor mount to be removed and the engine supported on a floor jack in order to install the new belt. Not a big deal, but still some thoughtless engineering mandated by the bean counters.

    And no way in Hades I'm buying the current gen CVT's. There's another problem area I'll avoid.
     
  14. maydog

    maydog Well-Known Member

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    This is starting to be a cranky old guy trip down memory lane. Should we bring back carburetors and leaded gasoline?
     
  15. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    Why not? I never met a carb I couldn't rebuild and lead kept my valve seats in great shape.

    I would not mind seeing distributor point ignitions and mechanical fuel pumps make a return. I'll gladly sacrifice 2 MPG for the economy and ease of maintenance that stuff brought to the table.

    So says my easy to work on old motorcycles, cars and tractors that still burn lead additives.

    In 2010 I bought two new tractors for the farm. I shopped for the least complicated diesels I could find (one was 95% manufactured in Japan by Shibaura, the other a 'world product' with an Italian Iveco diesel in it).

    The dealer asked me, " Why are you wanting to buy tractors with 30-year old technology?".

    I told him it was because they didn't sell anything with FIFTY year old technology.

    Now...you kids! Get off my lawn!
     
  16. ambal

    ambal Active Member

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    There aren't many old things that were better than todays version. Bikes, cars, engines, houses, give me a new one any day of the week thanks.
     
  17. OGRICHBOI

    OGRICHBOI New Member

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    First off, I am sorry to hear this happen to a fellow cycler! I suggest that you look at the signs that your bike is giving you in reaction to the water. Is it creaking, or making weird noises everytime you pedal? If so, google how to disassemble your bike and you're good to go. Hopefully you find this man!
     
  18. westmixxin

    westmixxin New Member

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    I had this same issue once water starts to get into their things started to get really out of hand and guarding against it isn't necessarily the easiest task but I do appreciate the video it definitely was educational in a lot of different ways.
     
  19. paichuu

    paichuu New Member

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    Good video. I dоn't hаvе a vice so I used an old crank arm I had lying around. It made working wіth the bearings much easier to have the pedal arm standing upright. Lots of good, clean grease helps hold bearings іn place. Used a small screwdriver tо move them into place set in to whеre they arе supposed tо be. Worse cоmes tо worse, уou сan buy a new pair fоr $50 US. But I dіd it аnd I havе poor vision and fat fingers. Thanks again fоr the vid.
     
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