Performance enhancing -bicarb loading



foe

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Dec 31, 2006
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hello all,
been doing some reading in aids to performance aside from training - recenetly came across bicarb loading where the athelete ingests 0.3g/10kg of body mass with water 90min b4 an event of 90-180 secs, this has been shown to have a 7% power increase over a 6minute duration in elite rowers. side effect being diahorea and in some decreased GI. i have two questions:
has any1 else had experience with this? and two:
Does any1 else out there know any more performance aides like this (legal ofcourse) preferably for more sustained results?
 

ric_stern/RST

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foe said:
hello all,
been doing some reading in aids to performance aside from training - recenetly came across bicarb loading where the athelete ingests 0.3g/10kg of body mass with water 90min b4 an event of 90-180 secs, this has been shown to have a 7% power increase over a 6minute duration in elite rowers. side effect being diahorea and in some decreased GI. i have two questions:
has any1 else had experience with this? and two:
Does any1 else out there know any more performance aides like this (legal ofcourse) preferably for more sustained results?

Bicarb loading is actually, 0.3 g per kg (not 10 kg), so a 70 kg person would require 21 g of bicarb. Approx., 50% of people suffer severe GI distress with it.

I wasn't aware that there's any research suggesting ~7% power increase over 6 mins...

We found an ~8% increase with sodium phosphate loading during a lab 10-mile TT, using a randomised, placebo, double-blind crossover study. see, http://cyclecoach.com/pageID-articles-Phosphates.htm

ric
 

Cutters

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Jan 7, 2007
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How much Phosphate? How soon did they take it before performance test and where can you get it?
 

ric_stern/RST

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Cutters said:
How much Phosphate? How soon did they take it before performance test and where can you get it?

we used 1g four times per day for six days and then tested on the seventh day. we got the phosphate from a chemical company who wouldn't sell to private individuals. i don't know where you can get the phosphate.

ric
 

CapeRoadster

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Nov 26, 2006
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ric_stern/RST said:
we used 1g four times per day for six days and then tested on the seventh day. we got the phosphate from a chemical company who wouldn't sell to private individuals. i don't know where you can get the phosphate.

ric
TwinLab used to make it too.
 

11ring

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Apr 22, 2006
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Is this just sodium bicarbonate???

foe said:
hello all,
been doing some reading in aids to performance aside from training - recenetly came across bicarb loading where the athelete ingests 0.3g/10kg of body mass with water 90min b4 an event of 90-180 secs, this has been shown to have a 7% power increase over a 6minute duration in elite rowers. side effect being diahorea and in some decreased GI. i have two questions:
has any1 else had experience with this? and two:
Does any1 else out there know any more performance aides like this (legal ofcourse) preferably for more sustained results?
 

CapeRoadster

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Nov 26, 2006
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ric_stern/RST said:
the wrong type though!

ric
Was it? Don't they make something called "PhosFuel"? Isn't that sodium phosphate? And isn't there some research that shows it works?

My understanding is that the research for sodium bicarbonate was better. I never thought phosphate loading worked too well for longer distances. But I think sodium bicarbonate works well, as long as your stomach is used to it.
 

ric_stern/RST

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CapeRoadster said:
Was it? Don't they make something called "PhosFuel"? Isn't that sodium phosphate? And isn't there some research that shows it works?

My understanding is that the research for sodium bicarbonate was better. I never thought phosphate loading worked too well for longer distances. But I think sodium bicarbonate works well, as long as your stomach is used to it.

don't have much time to reply so, this is just very brief
bicarb works for short events from seconds to minutes (maybe just under 10-mins at max)

phosphate works over longer events (data shows an ergogenic effect for VO2max testing, 10mile TT and 40 kmTT).

there are various types of phosphates (e.g., calcium, potassium, sodium, and then mono, dibasic, tribasic, etc). only one type has been shown to be ergogenic - which is the one we used in our research (tribasic sodium phosphate).

ric
 

CapeRoadster

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ric_stern/RST said:
don't have much time to reply so, this is just very brief
bicarb works for short events from seconds to minutes (maybe just under 10-mins at max)

phosphate works over longer events (data shows an ergogenic effect for VO2max testing, 10mile TT and 40 kmTT).

there are various types of phosphates (e.g., calcium, potassium, sodium, and then mono, dibasic, tribasic, etc). only one type has been shown to be ergogenic - which is the one we used in our research (tribasic sodium phosphate).

ric
Interesting response. Maybe you missed this way of thinking:

A cycling race enables the rider to drink on the go, therefore, bicarb works for longer races as well, since the rider can drink at any time. If I have a race where I need more power for the last 10 minutes, or for a 10-minutes stretch of climbing, for example, then bicarb will work for that as well. I think your post misses that point. A lot of sports nutrition researchers miss that as well.

When will you publish your research?
 

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