Phil Wood BB



J

jp_nyc

Guest
I am replacing my Ultegra bb with Phil Wood. The Ultegra spindle is
109.5mm and the PW JIS is available only in 108mm or 111mm. Should I
go with the 108mm? Or does it depend on the cranks I will be using?
 
C

Carl Sundquist

Guest
"jp_nyc" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>I am replacing my Ultegra bb with Phil Wood. The Ultegra spindle is
> 109.5mm and the PW JIS is available only in 108mm or 111mm. Should I
> go with the 108mm? Or does it depend on the cranks I will be using?
>


How much clearance do you have between the crankarms and the chainstays?
 
M

Mecha397

Guest
On 11 Apr 2007 18:39:34 -0700, jp_nyc wrote:

> I am replacing my Ultegra bb with Phil Wood. The Ultegra spindle is
> 109.5mm and the PW JIS is available only in 108mm or 111mm. Should I
> go with the 108mm? Or does it depend on the cranks I will be using?


I can't stress enough that this isn't something to fool around with. No
one here, in good faith, will give you a direct answer. What you need to do
is go to the best LBS you have access to - preferably one that uses an
approved fitting system.

Spindle length has a direct relation to the q-factor, and if you get it
wrong and you will soon have other concerns, like achilles tendonitis
and/or a torn meniscus.

Why take the risk?
 
P

Paul Myron Hobson

Guest
Mecha397 wrote:
> On 11 Apr 2007 18:39:34 -0700, jp_nyc wrote:
>
>> I am replacing my Ultegra bb with Phil Wood. The Ultegra spindle is
>> 109.5mm and the PW JIS is available only in 108mm or 111mm. Should I
>> go with the 108mm? Or does it depend on the cranks I will be using?

>
> I can't stress enough that this isn't something to fool around with. No
> one here, in good faith, will give you a direct answer. What you need to do
> is go to the best LBS you have access to - preferably one that uses an
> approved fitting system.
>
> Spindle length has a direct relation to the q-factor, and if you get it
> wrong and you will soon have other concerns, like achilles tendonitis
> and/or a torn meniscus.
>
> Why take the risk?


Let's assume a symmetric BB spindle.

0.5 * (109.5 mm - 108 mm) = 0.75 mm on each side
0.5 * (111 mm - 109.5 mm) = 0.75 mm on each side

But let's say the difference is all on the drive side. So that moves
the right foot out 1.5 mm.

Is it really *that* risky? Personally, I'd be more concerned with the
chainline.
\\paul
 
J

James Thomson

Guest
"jp_nyc" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email protected]...

> I am replacing my Ultegra bb with Phil Wood. The Ultegra spindle
> is 109.5mm and the PW JIS is available only in 108mm or 111mm.
> Should I go with the 108mm? Or does it depend on the cranks I will
> be using?


I think you have your wires crossed.

A 109.5mm Ultegra bottom bracket uses Shimano's proprietary Octalink splined
spindle.

JIS bottom brackets use a square taper spindle.

If you have splined Ultegra cranks, you need to use a Shimano 105, Ultegra,
or Dura Ace 109.5mm splined bottom bracket.

If you're replacing the cranks, you need to match the spindle length and
format to the cranks.

James Thomson
 
M

Mark Hickey

Guest
Mecha397 <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 11 Apr 2007 18:39:34 -0700, jp_nyc wrote:
>
>> I am replacing my Ultegra bb with Phil Wood. The Ultegra spindle is
>> 109.5mm and the PW JIS is available only in 108mm or 111mm. Should I
>> go with the 108mm? Or does it depend on the cranks I will be using?

>
>I can't stress enough that this isn't something to fool around with. No
>one here, in good faith, will give you a direct answer. What you need to do
>is go to the best LBS you have access to - preferably one that uses an
>approved fitting system.
>
>Spindle length has a direct relation to the q-factor, and if you get it
>wrong and you will soon have other concerns, like achilles tendonitis
>and/or a torn meniscus.


Huh? Move the pedals by 1.5mm and your legs fall apart? Scary stuff.
Especially for all those riders who've never worried about it (not
knowiing they're destined for a wheelchair within the month). ;-)

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame
 
Q

Qui si parla Campagnolo

Guest
On Apr 11, 10:55 pm, Mecha397 <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 11 Apr 2007 18:39:34 -0700, jp_nyc wrote:
>
> > I am replacing my Ultegra bb with Phil Wood. The Ultegra spindle is
> > 109.5mm and the PW JIS is available only in 108mm or 111mm. Should I
> > go with the 108mm? Or does it depend on the cranks I will be using?

>
> I can't stress enough that this isn't something to fool around with. No
> one here, in good faith, will give you a direct answer. What you need to do
> is go to the best LBS you have access to - preferably one that uses an
> approved fitting system.


111mm, since the crank has gone on and off a few tiomes, those 1.5mm
won't mean a thing..straight and answer and in good faith. You run the
risk of having the rings to close to the frame with the 108mm, and
then having to move the whole thing to the right to compensate.

I really doubt the guy will have physical problems with a BB spindle
1.5mm(.75mm on each side) different.
>
> Spindle length has a direct relation to the q-factor, and if you get it
> wrong and you will soon have other concerns, like achilles tendonitis
> and/or a torn meniscus.
>
> Why take the risk?
 
J

jp_nyc

Guest
On Apr 12, 5:11 am, "James Thomson" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "jp_nyc" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
> [email protected]
>
> > I am replacing my Ultegra bb with Phil Wood. The Ultegra spindle
> > is 109.5mm and the PW JIS is available only in 108mm or 111mm.
> > Should I go with the 108mm? Or does it depend on the cranks I will
> > be using?

>
> I think you have your wires crossed.
>
> A 109.5mm Ultegra bottom bracket uses Shimano's proprietary Octalink splined
> spindle.
>
> JIS bottom brackets use a square taper spindle.


> James Thomson


huh? I didn't think it was necessary to state the obvious. It goes
without saying that if I change the type of bb, I will be changing the
cranks.
 
J

jp_nyc

Guest
On Apr 11, 10:39 pm, "Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]> wrote:

> How much clearance do you have between the crankarms and the chainstays?


It's hard to measure, but it looks like I have plenty of clearance to
go either way. .75mm on either side is really a very small difference.
 
T

Tom Nakashima

Guest
"jp_nyc" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>I am replacing my Ultegra bb with Phil Wood. The Ultegra spindle is
> 109.5mm and the PW JIS is available only in 108mm or 111mm. Should I
> go with the 108mm? Or does it depend on the cranks I will be using?
>


jp,
Talk to Brent down at Phil Wood, he's the techie down there and very
knowledgeable. He also has the spec sheets on just about all the bottom
brackets and their compatibilities.
He can actually set the correct offset for you by his spec sheets.
You can either email him at: [email protected]
or call him (408) 298-1540. Explain to him in detail or send him what
you wrote above.
You can tell him Tom Nakashima from San Jose, CA sent you.
-tom
 
On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 05:38:14 -0700, Mark Hickey <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Mecha397 <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On 11 Apr 2007 18:39:34 -0700, jp_nyc wrote:
>>
>>> I am replacing my Ultegra bb with Phil Wood. The Ultegra spindle is
>>> 109.5mm and the PW JIS is available only in 108mm or 111mm. Should I
>>> go with the 108mm? Or does it depend on the cranks I will be using?

>>
>>I can't stress enough that this isn't something to fool around with. No
>>one here, in good faith, will give you a direct answer. What you need to do
>>is go to the best LBS you have access to - preferably one that uses an
>>approved fitting system.
>>
>>Spindle length has a direct relation to the q-factor, and if you get it
>>wrong and you will soon have other concerns, like achilles tendonitis
>>and/or a torn meniscus.

>
>Huh? Move the pedals by 1.5mm and your legs fall apart? Scary stuff.
>Especially for all those riders who've never worried about it (not
>knowiing they're destined for a wheelchair within the month). ;-)
>
>Mark Hickey
>Habanero Cycles
>http://www.habcycles.com
>Home of the $795 ti frame


Dear Mark,

Until you can feel the fatal difference between wearing thick and thin
socks, I refuse to believe that your answer about bicycle fit is in
good faith!

But since you probably typed your insane denial on a keyboard whose
flip-down legs were not sanded to the correct height for your wrists,
it's likely that we won't have to suffer many more of your cruelly
skeptical posts . . .

Unless, of course, your crippling hand injuries force you to switch to
voice recognition software (the computer equivalent of a recumbent),
in which case you'll probably refuse to take voice lessons and end up
hoarsely denying the absolute importance of maintaining middle C
instead of C# when dictating.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel
 
J

Jay Beattie

Guest
On Apr 12, 6:41 am, "Tom Nakashima" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "jp_nyc" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]
>
> >I am replacing my Ultegra bb with Phil Wood. The Ultegra spindle is
> > 109.5mm and the PW JIS is available only in 108mm or 111mm. Should I
> > go with the 108mm? Or does it depend on the cranks I will be using?

>
> jp,
> Talk to Brent down at Phil Wood, he's the techie down there and very
> knowledgeable. He also has the spec sheets on just about all the bottom
> brackets and their compatibilities.
> He can actually set the correct offset for you by his spec sheets.
> You can either email him at: [email protected]
> or call him (408) 298-1540. Explain to him in detail or send him what
> you wrote above.
> You can tell him Tom Nakashima from San Jose, CA sent you.
> -tom


And don't forget that the BB can be moved side to side with the Phil
ring arangement.

Going with a 111 is a 1.5mm overshoot, which is nothing, IMO. -- Jay
Beattie.
 
T

Tom Nakashima

Guest
"Jay Beattie" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On Apr 12, 6:41 am, "Tom Nakashima" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "jp_nyc" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> news:[email protected]
>>
>> >I am replacing my Ultegra bb with Phil Wood. The Ultegra spindle is
>> > 109.5mm and the PW JIS is available only in 108mm or 111mm. Should I
>> > go with the 108mm? Or does it depend on the cranks I will be using?

>>
>> jp,
>> Talk to Brent down at Phil Wood, he's the techie down there and very
>> knowledgeable. He also has the spec sheets on just about all the bottom
>> brackets and their compatibilities.
>> He can actually set the correct offset for you by his spec sheets.
>> You can either email him at: [email protected]
>> or call him (408) 298-1540. Explain to him in detail or send him what
>> you wrote above.
>> You can tell him Tom Nakashima from San Jose, CA sent you.
>> -tom

>
> And don't forget that the BB can be moved side to side with the Phil
> ring arangement.
>
> Going with a 111 is a 1.5mm overshoot, which is nothing, IMO. -- Jay
> Beattie.
>


Actually Phil Wood refers to the rings as Bottom Bracket Cartridge Cups,
but yes, the BB can be moved, actually quite a bit +/- 2.5mm.
Brent claims it's best to set the bb with two installation tools. He also
told me it's best to have him set the offset as close to oem specs, then
fine
tune it with the cups.

I got to see Brent do this in action. He has a press and mm off-sets as
his stops. Takes him less than a minute to do the off-set. Just make sure
you install the bb correctly and not reversed.
-tom
 
J

jp_nyc

Guest
Funny, I emailed White Industries asking about BB size for their road
crank, and Lynette responded with a 113mm spindle length for a 47.5mm
chainline. What's odd is that I measured the chainline on my current
setup (Ultegra 109.5mm BB with FSA cranks) to be 47.5mm.

Is that possible? So this means that different cranks require
different size BB spindles in order to achieve the same chainline?
 
A

A Muzi

Guest
jp_nyc wrote:
> Funny, I emailed White Industries asking about BB size for their road
> crank, and Lynette responded with a 113mm spindle length for a 47.5mm
> chainline. What's odd is that I measured the chainline on my current
> setup (Ultegra 109.5mm BB with FSA cranks) to be 47.5mm.
>
> Is that possible? So this means that different cranks require
> different size BB spindles in order to achieve the same chainline?
>

In Peter's apt phrase, "BINGO"

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
 
J

jp_nyc

Guest
> In Peter's apt phrase, "BINGO"

I guess I learned something today. :)
 
A

Andy M-S

Guest
On Apr 12, 8:20 am, "jp_nyc" <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Apr 12, 5:11 am, "James Thomson" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > "jp_nyc" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
> > [email protected]

>
> > > I am replacing my Ultegra bb with Phil Wood. The Ultegra spindle
> > > is 109.5mm and the PW JIS is available only in 108mm or 111mm.
> > > Should I go with the 108mm? Or does it depend on the cranks I will
> > > be using?

>
> > I think you have your wires crossed.

>
> > A 109.5mm Ultegra bottom bracket uses Shimano's proprietary Octalink splined
> > spindle.

>
> > JIS bottom brackets use a square taper spindle.
> > James Thomson

>
> huh? I didn't think it was necessary to state the obvious. It goes
> without saying that if I change the type of bb, I will be changing the
> cranks.


In that case, the answer to the original question is, "It depends on
the cranks [you] will be using." There are a lot of different square-
taper standards for spindle length, and there are two slightly
different tapers as well--Campy and (some) Stronglight cranks require
ISO; the rest seem to use the Japanese standard.
 
C

* * Chas

Guest
"Andy M-S" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
On Apr 12, 8:20 am, "jp_nyc" <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Apr 12, 5:11 am, "James Thomson" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > "jp_nyc" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
> > [email protected]

>
> > > I am replacing my Ultegra bb with Phil Wood. The Ultegra spindle
> > > is 109.5mm and the PW JIS is available only in 108mm or 111mm.
> > > Should I go with the 108mm? Or does it depend on the cranks I will
> > > be using?

>
> > I think you have your wires crossed.

>
> > A 109.5mm Ultegra bottom bracket uses Shimano's proprietary Octalink

splined
> > spindle.

>
> > JIS bottom brackets use a square taper spindle.
> > James Thomson

>
> huh? I didn't think it was necessary to state the obvious. It goes
> without saying that if I change the type of bb, I will be changing the
> cranks.


>In that case, the answer to the original question is, "It depends on
>the cranks [you] will be using." There are a lot of different square-
>taper standards for spindle length, and there are two slightly
>different tapers as well--Campy and (some) Stronglight cranks require
>ISO; the rest seem to use the Japanese standard.


According to the info on the Phil Wood web site only post 1994 Campy
cranks are ISO.

http://www.philwood.com/Pricing.pdf see page 12

Chas.