Phonak just confirmed it!

[cucamelsmd15]

ABC news just reported Flandis's number was 11:1.

Seeya Floyd, nice knowin ya bud!

 

[sydsyd]

Agreed, the number is too wacky. There's something else happening that we don't understand, yet. If he had those kind of levels I think they would have shown up when he was tested in stage 10 or 11. None of this adds up- It's just not logical.

Which is why I'm reserving judgment.

Same here. There has to be some other explanation. I know that one is suspected of being an idiot for believing in any cyclist these days, but I am finding it impossible to doubt Flandis' on this one. I don't know, I may just have to give up on this sport, this year has been awful.

 

[nns1400]

That`s what I was curious about too. Has testosterone a short time effect? It probably has: check what Jaksche`s doctor said.
Floyd`s change of shape from stage 16 to 17 was suspicious but stage 16 disaster was most likely because of dehidration or that he forgot to eat, despite he denied it.Interesting..Even more interesting..

Yeah, well now Phonak says they were drinking whiskey the night before (from Yahoo Sports). Hmmm, that would contain more alcohol than one beer. So, is this backtracking cover-up or the truth?

 

[adapa]

Same here. There has to be some other explanation. I know that one is suspected of being an idiot for believing in any cyclist these days, but I am finding it impossible to doubt Flandis' on this one. I don't know, I may just have to give up on this sport, this year has been awful.

I've been trying to find a link to the 11:1 number my husband & I *clearly* saw on ABC nightly news. They did report the # but do not seem to be reporting it anywhere on their web site.

I'm with you on the "finding it impossible to doubt floyd" He's a logical person & this simply isn't logical.

 

[jeff828]

If it's true, I hope the hip surgery is a failure and he is bound to a wheel chair the rest of his life.

Cycling has got to come up with a way to truely test for everything.

You are definitly an idiot, pretty cruel words.

 

[jeff828]

Simmer now.

If it's true, Landis cheated the world out of a true Tour de France champion.

The team tactics would have been different. He ruins the race for everyone.

So did alot of other cyclist, mountain bikers, cyclo crossers, cheat people out of championships & placings, can we recall how many have been busted the last few years? If you run out of fingers, take off your shoes & use ya toes!
Grey, I guess the way you put it to FL, Pantani deserved his punishment for a high hemocrit level, to go out of his mind and commit suicide, after all, he did cheat.

 

[JohnO]

I remember when we used to follow cycling for the sport.

Now, it's just a damned soap opera.

I want to believe Floyd, too. Just doesn't seem to be his style. But I wanted to believe Tyler, and look how that turned out. At least Floyd is being a bit philosophical about it.

All the same, I really wish it was someone other than LNDD doing the test.

 

[nns1400]

I remember when we used to follow cycling for the sport.

Now, it's just a damned soap opera.

I want to believe Floyd, too. Just doesn't seem to be his style. But I wanted to believe Tyler, and look how that turned out. At least Floyd is being a bit philosophical about it.

All the same, I really wish it was someone other than LNDD doing the test.

I agree with you. I so want to believe Floyd, I've almost drunk a whole glass of kool-aid now I guess! It's the Tyler thing though. Watching that guy so earnestly bald-faced lie like he did for two years, with his wife right there beside him, makes it hard the next time around. And Floyd seems so kind of, sad, I guess, instead of outraged. I mean, wouldn't you be outraged if you really didn't do it? Like....Tyler?! I will wait and see about these other tests. There are some strange things about this whole situation.

 

[sydsyd]

I've been surfing the web for more information on this stuff and came across something called the carbon isotope ratio test. Apparently it can be used to detect synthetic testosterone vs. natural testosterone. Here's one of the sources I found: http://www.drugfreesport.com/insight.asp?VolID=29&TopicID=6. If I was Flandis and I knew I was innocent, I'd have this test run on my sample.

 

[dasnootz]

I've been surfing the web for more information on this stuff and came across something called the carbon isotope ratio test. Apparently it can be used to detect synthetic testosterone vs. natural testosterone. Here's one of the sources I found: http://www.drugfreesport.com/insight.asp?VolID=29&TopicID=6. If I was Flandis and I knew I was innocent, I'd have this test run on my sample.

Floyds testosterone levels were NOT high... his epitestosterone levels were etremely low meaning that his ratio was skewed beyond the "normal" leves which are apparently 1:1. The UCI allows riders to ride with ratios up to 4:1 testosterone vs. epitestosterone so in Floyd's case he had normal testosterone and 1/11 the normal epitestosterone level.

 

[nns1400]

Floyds testosterone levels were NOT high... his epitestosterone levels were etremely low meaning that his ratio was skewed beyond the "normal" leves which are apparently 1:1. The UCI allows riders to ride with ratios up to 4:1 testosterone vs. epitestosterone so in Floyd's case he had normal testosterone and 1/11 the normal epitestosterone level.

Okay, so what does that mean?

 

[TrekDedicated]

Okay, so what does that mean?

He's pregnant.


UCI uses EPT to test.

 

[allez jacky]

I agree with you. I so want to believe Floyd, I've almost drunk a whole glass of kool-aid now I guess! It's the Tyler thing though. Watching that guy so earnestly bald-faced lie like he did for two years, with his wife right there beside him, makes it hard the next time around. And Floyd seems so kind of, sad, I guess, instead of outraged. I mean, wouldn't you be outraged if you really didn't do it? Like....Tyler?! I will wait and see about these other tests. There are some strange things about this whole situation.

The bottom line is that none of us are doping specialist, therefore we are all ready to believe anything based on any kind of argument that might look convincing to the profanes we are.
Like you say, you want to believe him (and I understand it). Maybe you are right, but the sad truth is that even if you're wrong, I'm afraid that as long as he will not confess (if he ever does, and if indeed he did something bad), you will always find a way to believe him. Now you're waiting for the second sample test, then you might question the procedure, then you might question the honesty of the lab, then you might believe it was an accident, and so on... Landis has obviously decided to fight, at least with words. And among all these words, some will have to end up looking convincing to anyone who WANT to be convinced.
When the brain can't have any rational certainty, it easily lets desires and beliefs take over. That's just how it works. In France, up until the end most people continued to believe Virenque was clean (and that was RIDICULOUS).

So now it's :
_The numbers announced don't add up.
_Floyd wouldn't do that, he's mennonite and all.
_It's something else mistaken for a doping product.
_He would have tested positive the other days too if it was true.
_He told his mom he was innocent (didn't hear that one, but I guess it will soon appear).

And it's just the beginning...

 

[wh0areume]

Okay, so what does that mean?

I'm pretty sure he's saying it means his test levels were normal, but since they test for that ratio, he failed because his epitestosterone was low.
People are claiming it may have been because of alcohol, or medicine he was taking for his leg.

I believe floyd if it's truly a case of his epitestosterone being too low.

 

[sydsyd]

Floyds testosterone levels were NOT high... his epitestosterone levels were etremely low meaning that his ratio was skewed beyond the "normal" leves which are apparently 1:1. The UCI allows riders to ride with ratios up to 4:1 testosterone vs. epitestosterone so in Floyd's case he had normal testosterone and 1/11 the normal epitestosterone level.

So far I haven't seen any sources for the 1/11 information other than posts on forums. I didn't imply that his testosterone levels were high, my point was that there is a test to determine if the testosterone in someone's system is from synthetic sources or not. Since the thinking behind the T/E test is that testosterone abuse lowers the epitestosterone levels, I would want to find some way to show that the abnormal ratio wasn't due to synthetic testosterone.

 

[nns1400]

The bottom line is that none of us are doping specialist, therefore we are all ready to believe anything based on any kind of argument that might look convincing to the profanes we are.
Like you say, you want to believe him (and I understand it). Maybe you are right, but the sad truth is that even if you're wrong, I'm afraid that as long as he will not confess (if he ever does, and if indeed he did something bad), you will always find a way to believe him. Now you're waiting for the second sample test, then you might question the procedure, then you might question the honesty of the lab, then you might believe it was an accident, and so on... Landis has obviously decided to fight, at least with words. And among all these words, some will have to end up looking convincing to anyone who WANT to be convinced.
When the brain can't have any rational certainty, it easily lets desires and beliefs take over. That's just how it works. In France, up until the end most people continued to believe Virenque was clean (and that was RIDICULOUS).



So now it's :
_The numbers announced don't add up.
_Floyd wouldn't do that, he's mennonite and all.
_It's something else mistaken for a doping product.
_He would have tested positive the other days too if it was true.
_He told his mom he was innocent (didn't hear that one, but I guess it will soon appear).

And it's just the beginning...

Dude, I said I wanted to believe him, not that I did. I am ambivalent at the moment, due to so many people squawking, as you say, that the numbers don't add up, so I will wait to hear more about that. As for being Mennonite, he is not, his parents are, and yes, he did tell his mom he's innocent, LOL! I used to believe all of Lance's earnest protests and lawsuits, and I wondered about Tyler, but I have learned a lot and grown up a lot concerning this sport. You don't have to dig very deep to think they were both juiced. My heart sank when I heard this news about Floyd, but honestly, I had my own questions when he came back like that. So I will not endlessly question test results like a REAL Kool-Aid drinker. Just hoping that this might be that one time.....and I will probably be sorry. I'm not sure my post left quite the impression that my "brain can't have any rational certainty, and it will easily let desires and beliefs take over." You also said "you will always find a way to believe him." Save that for the Lance brigade, okay?

 

[Minnaert]

So, I have one simple problem with this whole thing. Basic Biology would suggest that Lyndais did win clean. First, he was clean on stage 15 after the GC finish. Thus, he would have T/E levels around 4:1 or lower. Now, he bonked at 16 and injected T or some T stimulating compound into his body the night before for what purpose? T does not aide in removal of lactic acid. It will build and prolong the degeneration of the tissue, but will not remove or help recovery process. So, if you are going to win the tour via cheating, WHY THE HELL ARE YOU GOING TO TAKE A MUSCLE GROWTH STIMULATE WITH ONLY 3 DAYS LEFT AND NOT CONTINUE TO FAIL THE FOLLOWING TESTS? yea, I know that I will hear the argument about getting back into the race, (it takes around 24 hours for T to start the building process, i would say tons of time to develop a preformance of god like by the next day for sure!) but you already know that they are hunting hard for this.


Finally, someone else said it best in the forums, if he tested clean throughout his 3 other victories, all of the previous stages, and finally his GC win, then why is it only one sample that comes back negative. Oh and on a side note, there is statisical error in all testing. Generally, we will say it is 99.9%. Now, 200 tests this year plus all the previous years. That adds up to a chance of getting a flase positive. Why there is a second sample by the way.

Only 1 person truely knows the answer at this point, (2 if there was an admin for the shot). Allow everyone to tell his/her story.

As many can tell, I think that it is hogwash that he cheated for one day! God, if you are going to cheat at least do it right and dope correctly throughout the whole thing. A little here and little there will go a long way. Not just all at once!


We are so caught up in this cheating/doping ghost right now, that at the first sign of it, we find the person guilty, don't ask what is the matter with the testing, and why only 1 company is in charge of it. Honestly, we should look at the doping agency and start asking them the same hard questions.



P.S.
Testosterone can build muscle and improve recovery time when used over a period of several weeks, said Dr. Gary Wadler, a member of the World Anti-Doping Agency and a spokesman for the American College of Sports Medicine. But if Landis had been a user, his earlier urine tests during the tour would have been affected, he said

 

[nns1400]

Finally, someone else said it best in the forums, if he tested clean throughout his 3 other victories, all of the previous stages, and finally his GC win, then why is it only one sample that comes back negative. !

Many people caught in doping always tested clean. They were caught when their doctors were, or the stuff was in the team car, etc.

 

[dexjava]

So, I have one simple problem with this whole thing. Basic Biology would suggest that Lyndais did win clean. First, he was clean on stage 15 after the GC finish. Thus, he would have T/E levels around 4:1 or lower. Now, he bonked at 16 and injected T or some T stimulating compound into his body the night before for what purpose? T does not aide in removal of lactic acid. It will build and prolong the degeneration of the tissue, but will not remove or help recovery process. So, if you are going to win the tour via cheating, WHY THE HELL ARE YOU GOING TO TAKE A MUSCLE GROWTH STIMULATE WITH ONLY 3 DAYS LEFT AND NOT CONTINUE TO FAIL THE FOLLOWING TESTS? yea, I know that I will hear the argument about getting back into the race, (it takes around 24 hours for T to start the building process, i would say tons of time to develop a preformance of god like by the next day for sure!) but you already know that they are hunting hard for this.


Finally, someone else said it best in the forums, if he tested clean throughout his 3 other victories, all of the previous stages, and finally his GC win, then why is it only one sample that comes back negative. Oh and on a side note, there is statisical error in all testing. Generally, we will say it is 99.9%. Now, 200 tests this year plus all the previous years. That adds up to a chance of getting a flase positive. Why there is a second sample by the way.

Only 1 person truely knows the answer at this point, (2 if there was an admin for the shot). Allow everyone to tell his/her story.

As many can tell, I think that it is hogwash that he cheated for one day! God, if you are going to cheat at least do it right and dope correctly throughout the whole thing. A little here and little there will go a long way. Not just all at once!


We are so caught up in this cheating/doping ghost right now, that at the first sign of it, we find the person guilty, don't ask what is the matter with the testing, and why only 1 company is in charge of it. Honestly, we should look at the doping agency and start asking them the same hard questions.

Maybe the testosterone was for the comming Time Trial? Just a thought. But if he planned on killing himself on the long mountain stage, and was worried he might not recover fast enough for the upcomming TT, maybe that would be a good reason to take a lot. Just a possible theory.

 

[Greymattar]

So did alot of other cyclist, mountain bikers, cyclo crossers, cheat people out of championships & placings, can we recall how many have been busted the last few years? If you run out of fingers, take off your shoes & use ya toes!
Grey, I guess the way you put it to FL, Pantani deserved his punishment for a high hemocrit level, to go out of his mind and commit suicide, after all, he did cheat.

Actually I don't want to go so far as having anyone commit suicide for cheating, I just want them to be maimed for life.