Pics of Campa 11 speed

[M-gineering]

Tom Kunich wrote:
> "M-gineering" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> "jim beam" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>
>>>> so don't buy campy! plenty of 9-s shimano available. duh.
>>>
>>> OK, where do I get new 9-speed 105 or Ultegra levers?
>>>
>> ST R 600 are 9 speed, ST R 500 are 8 speed.
>
> When did ST R600 become 105?
>
Shimano thinks they are Ultegra level

--
/Marten

info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl

 

[A R:nen]

Qui si parla Campagnolo <[email protected]> writes:

> Pretty simple, Campagnolo stopped making Centaur with aluminum axle
> and Chorus hubs in 2006. Hubset chopices for 2007/8 are the Black
> Record, Centaur with cart bearings and steel axle(acxtually relabeled
> Veloce hubs), Veloce...

And Veloce was available in 2007 only. The hubs don't actually
have the text "Veloce" anywhere on them, but 2008 Centaur (and Mirage)
has the new design QR, so there is at least some way to tell them apart.

I guess I'd better stock up a few Mirage rear hubs for utility and
foul weather use before they are gone altogether. Also, shouldn't the
"red" Record Ergos be available with substantial discounts pretty
soon, what with all pro wannabes now just waiting for 11s?

 

[Ryan Cousineau]

In article <[email protected]>,
"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:

> "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> On Jun 22, 7:16 am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> > > When did ST R600 become 105?
> >
> > Didn't. New shape, ala 7800 and 6600, 8 and 9s levers. No more DA,
> > ultegra or 105 9s levers being made. Those 3 are 10s, and 9s and 8s
> > relegated to lower end levers.
>
> That was my point Peter. I'm trying to argue that there is a good market for
> quality 9-speed stuff still and perhaps that market is significantly larger
> than for 10 or 11 speed stuff.
>
> I think that we're all getting damned tired of the idea that more speed
> equals better.

Tom: 9-speed shifters don't really cost any less to make, quality being
equal, than 10-speed shifters. The other parts of the system are the
derailers (which also don't cost any less to make, and are agnostic
about how many cogs they shift, until the creation of the new-spec D-A
cable pull for 2009), and the cassette, which is a wear item.

So what happens is you bring your trashed Ultegra 9s brifters into the
bike shop, and the wise proprietor will point out you just need to buy a
new cassette (and your old one is half-worn anyways) and you're in the
world of 10s.

The number of people who in that circumstance would choose to stay with
9-speed is not a market. The real cheapskates just buy used 9s, which
are cheap and plentiful.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email protected] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

 

[Andrew Lee]

Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> The other parts of the system are the
> derailers (which also don't cost any less to make, and are agnostic
> about how many cogs they shift, until the creation of the new-spec D-A
> cable pull for 2009)

According the chart here,
http://www.dura-ace.com/downloads/interchangeability.pdf , the 2009 D-A
levers are interchangeable with the current 7800 D-A levers with regards to
the rear derailleur operation, so there must be no cable pull difference
there. However, the 2009 levers are not supposed to work with the 7800
front derailleur, so there is probably a cable pull difference in the front.

 

[Tom Kunich]

"Ryan Cousineau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:rcousine-26EFE5.11392722062008@[74.223.185.199.nw.nuvox.net]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>>
>> That was my point Peter. I'm trying to argue that there is a good market
>> for
>> quality 9-speed stuff still and perhaps that market is significantly
>> larger
>> than for 10 or 11 speed stuff.
>>
>> I think that we're all getting damned tired of the idea that more speeds
>> equals better.
>
> Tom: 9-speed shifters don't really cost any less to make, quality being
> equal, than 10-speed shifters. The other parts of the system are the
> derailers (which also don't cost any less to make, and are agnostic
> about how many cogs they shift, until the creation of the new-spec D-A
> cable pull for 2009), and the cassette, which is a wear item.

Ryan, the 10 and soon the 11 speed stuff is wearing a great deal faster than
the 8-speed stuff. I was willing to go to 9-speed because a 13-27 9-speed
covers just about the entire range that anyone needs in the San Francisco
Bay Area.

Unless you're racing you gain nothing from a 10 speed (save the small
numbers that are using the 12-29 Campy 10-speed). Why install a rapid wear
group?

 

[Tom Kunich]

"M-gineering" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Tom Kunich wrote:
>> "M-gineering" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> "jim beam" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>
>>>>> so don't buy campy! plenty of 9-s shimano available. duh.
>>>>
>>>> OK, where do I get new 9-speed 105 or Ultegra levers?
>>>>
>>> ST R 600 are 9 speed, ST R 500 are 8 speed.
>>
>> When did ST R600 become 105?
>>
> Shimano thinks they are Ultegra level

Duhhh - Sorry about that Martin, my brain apparently turned off - you say
that the R600 is available in 9-speeds? Ahh, yes here it is - But a set of
the levers is selling for the same thing as Ultegra - $320.

 

[Lou Holtman]

Tom Kunich wrote:
> "M-gineering" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> "M-gineering" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>> "jim beam" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> so don't buy campy! plenty of 9-s shimano available. duh.
>>>>>
>>>>> OK, where do I get new 9-speed 105 or Ultegra levers?
>>>>>
>>>> ST R 600 are 9 speed, ST R 500 are 8 speed.
>>>
>>> When did ST R600 become 105?
>>>
>> Shimano thinks they are Ultegra level
>
> Duhhh - Sorry about that Martin, my brain apparently turned off - you
> say that the R600 is available in 9-speeds? Ahh, yes here it is - But a
> set of the levers is selling for the same thing as Ultegra - $320.
>
>


Well at last. It comes down to money... How many brifters do you wear
out per year?

Lou

 

[Tom Kunich]

"Lou Holtman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Tom Kunich wrote:
>>
>> Duhhh - Sorry about that Martin, my brain apparently turned off - you say
>> that the R600 is available in 9-speeds? Ahh, yes here it is - But a set
>> of the levers is selling for the same thing as Ultegra - $320.
>
> Well at last. It comes down to money... How many brifters do you wear out
> per year?

Tell me Lou - why would you think that a bicycle shift/brake lever should
cost a consumer over $200? Have you noticed that you can get a desktop
computer for that much?

 

[jim beam]

Tom Kunich wrote:
> "Lou Holtman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>
>>> Duhhh - Sorry about that Martin, my brain apparently turned off - you
>>> say that the R600 is available in 9-speeds? Ahh, yes here it is - But
>>> a set of the levers is selling for the same thing as Ultegra - $320.
>>
>> Well at last. It comes down to money... How many brifters do you wear
>> out per year?
>
> Tell me Lou - why would you think that a bicycle shift/brake lever
> should cost a consumer over $200? Have you noticed that you can get a
> desktop computer for that much?

tell the rest of us tom, where did you lose sight of the dollar's
free-fall and [imported] bike componentry not being cheap any more? a
CN7900 chain will cost you $70. that's only 4 1/2 chains per shifter so
proportionately, they're damned cheap.

which leads to another point - it would seem that you don't ride much if
you haven't discovered this for yourself. and if you don't ride much,
what's with all this constant bleating? shouldn't you be on
rec.sofas.ass-scratching?

 

[Tom Kunich]

"jim beam" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> which leads to another point - it would seem that you don't ride much

4,000 miles so far this year - what about you?

 

[jim beam]

Tom Kunich wrote:
> "jim beam" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> which leads to another point - it would seem that you don't ride much
>
> 4,000 miles so far this year - what about you?
>

i don't believe you. and why did you snip the point about costs or
proportionality? was it because you're a whiner that doesn't get out
much and so hasn't noticed these things? [rhetorical.]

 

[Morten Reippuert Knudsen]

On 2008-06-22 15:30:40 +0200, Qui si parla Campagnolo
<[email protected]> said:

> Pretty simple, Campagnolo stopped making Centaur with aluminum axle
> and Chorus hubs in 2006. Hubset chopices for 2007/8 are the Black
> Record, Centaur with cart bearings and steel axle(acxtually relabeled
> Veloce hubs), Veloce...

Unfortunatly they continue doing so. 2009 Chorus brakes will be
relabled Centaur 2007/2008 brakes. no more ball bearing and no more
hidden pivot bolt and for the ethetics: no more silver andonized top
level Campy brakes.

It looks like they are killing the chorus as we know: Record quality
without stupid light materials for the price of DureAce. Instead we
will get an ultrgra level Chorus group at DureAce price :-( I bet
Chorus 2009 levers will be brushed bearings, non adjustable
pralellogram deraillur - in other words: centaur :-(

--
mvh. Morten Reippuert Knudsen

"Besides, if you can't get a decent kernal panic
or two in a month, what's the point of living?"

 

[Tom Kunich]

"jim beam" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Tom Kunich wrote:
>> "jim beam" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> which leads to another point - it would seem that you don't ride much
>>
>> 4,000 miles so far this year - what about you?
>
> i don't believe you.

Gee, that really hurts me. And by the way, I got in 4,000 mile despite being
sick with that flu for three weeks unable to ride and another week after my
crash. So that was 4,000 miles in about 5 months instead of 6.

My guess is that you have something in the neighborhood of 400.

 

[jim beam]

Tom Kunich wrote:
> "jim beam" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> "jim beam" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>
>>>> which leads to another point - it would seem that you don't ride much
>>>
>>> 4,000 miles so far this year - what about you?
>>
>> i don't believe you.
>
> Gee, that really hurts me. And by the way, I got in 4,000 mile despite
> being sick with that flu for three weeks unable to ride and another week
> after my crash. So that was 4,000 miles in about 5 months instead of 6.
>
> My guess is that you have something in the neighborhood of 400.
>

ha, the school of jobst brandt disparagement! only without the wit.

so tom, how many chains have you used in your "4000 miles" so far this
year? or don't you consume consumables and thus are insulated from
price rises? or does your mom buy them for you?

 

[Tom Kunich]

"jim beam" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
>
> so tom, how many chains have you used in your "4000 miles" so far this
> year? or don't you consume consumables and thus are insulated from price
> rises? or does your mom buy them for you?

Well, since I had over a dozen bikes for most of the year (been selling them
off and am now down to a measly 10) I've only had to replace two chains but
then I don't keep real close track of all that sort of stuff like you do.

Oh, wait, let me see - three carbon bikes, a titanium Merckx, an aluminum
cross bike, five steel bikes, yeah ten bikes. But I don't ride the C40 a
whole lot since I like to keep it pristine for special occasions. But the
Time VX is nearly as good and rides better at slower speeds.

What about you?

 

[jim beam]

Tom Kunich wrote:
> "jim beam" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news[email protected]...
>>
>> so tom, how many chains have you used in your "4000 miles" so far this
>> year? or don't you consume consumables and thus are insulated from
>> price rises? or does your mom buy them for you?
>
> Well, since I had over a dozen bikes for most of the year (been selling
> them off and am now down to a measly 10)

busted! you're greg lemond! did you make much profit ripping off trek?


> I've only had to replace two
> chains but then I don't keep real close track of all that sort of stuff
> like you do.
>
> Oh, wait, let me see - three carbon bikes, a titanium Merckx, an
> aluminum cross bike, five steel bikes, yeah ten bikes. But I don't ride
> the C40 a whole lot since I like to keep it pristine for special
> occasions. But the Time VX is nearly as good and rides better at slower
> speeds.
>
> What about you?
>

i don't ride a bike - my tentacles get tangled.

 

[Carl Sundquist]

"Ryan Cousineau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:rcousine-26EFE5.11392722062008@[74.223.185.199.nw.nuvox.net]...
>
> Tom: 9-speed shifters don't really cost any less to make, quality being
> equal, than 10-speed shifters. The other parts of the system are the
> derailers (which also don't cost any less to make, and are agnostic
> about how many cogs they shift, until the creation of the new-spec D-A
> cable pull for 2009), and the cassette, which is a wear item.
>
> So what happens is you bring your trashed Ultegra 9s brifters into the
> bike shop, and the wise proprietor will point out you just need to buy a
> new cassette (and your old one is half-worn anyways) and you're in the
> world of 10s.
>
> The number of people who in that circumstance would choose to stay with
> 9-speed is not a market. The real cheapskates just buy used 9s, which
> are cheap and plentiful.

Converting a single bike from 9 to 10 speed is not a big deal, but if you
have three or four bikes and alternate the wheelsets between them, then it
either becomes a PITA to swap cogs every time you switch rear wheels or
moderately expensive to convert all your bikes to 10 speed.

What is the cost of four sets of brifters, four 10s chains, and at least
four cogsets?

 

[Tom Kunich]

"Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Converting a single bike from 9 to 10 speed is not a big deal, but if you
> have three or four bikes and alternate the wheelsets between them, then it
> either becomes a PITA to swap cogs every time you switch rear wheels or
> moderately expensive to convert all your bikes to 10 speed.
>
> What is the cost of four sets of brifters, four 10s chains, and at least
> four cogsets?

What about the dozen or so road bikes I had for awhile? Yikes! Now I'm glad
that I've gotten over that and intend to reduce my bikes to a mere half
dozen. Four road bikes, a cyclocross bike and a touring bike. I don't think
I'll need any more than that.

 

[Tom Kunich]

"jim beam" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> i don't ride a bike - my tentacles get tangled.

That's not in the least bit surprising.

 

[jim beam]

Tom Kunich wrote:
> "jim beam" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> i don't ride a bike - my tentacles get tangled.
>
> That's not in the least bit surprising.
>

don't snip without annotation - usenet basic 101.