piriformis/sciatica pain--exercises to avoid???

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Puncturevine, Feb 19, 2003.

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  1. Puncturevine

    Puncturevine Guest

    I've been experiencing some pain in my left leg. From the nature of the pain (buttocks and deep mid
    to low thigh) I believe it is piriformis sydrome rather than sciatica. The pain is usually always
    above the knee, and tends to be more severe near the end of the day, when getting up from being
    seated, or when returning to a low seat from standing. Bending over to put on shoes, etc., will also
    sometimes cause some pain, as will sometimes sitting (reclining) on my favorite "cushy" couch at the
    end of the day.

    The pain has been with me now since early December. There is no "injury event" I can think of that
    would have triggered it. I have tried the Sacro-Wedgy product and stretches with little success, and
    I'm thinking something in my weekly workouts might be aggravating it. I was hoping there might be
    some folks out there with some suggestions on exercises to AVOID while I try to get a handle on
    this. Maybe laying off a few specific exercises will reduce the inflammation, if it's truly a
    piriformis problem.

    Mondays I usually did squats, both traditional with barbell and with a hip-sled. Then I would work
    back and biceps, with a mix of traditional barbell/dumbell exercises and some circuit room machines.

    Wednesdays was a little deadlifting, chest and triceps, again with a mix of traditional free weight
    and machine lifts.

    Friday was a depletion workout of the same exercises done Monday and Wed but with lighter weight and
    very slow, controlled reps. I will also sometimes do some indoor "gym climbing," which sometimes
    involves a controlled fall (usually onto the feet) from 6-8' up onto a thick foam mat. I'm about
    6'1" and 200lbs.

    For aerobic training I do around 20-30 of interval training on any of the following: stairmaster
    (with some deep steps now and then), treadmill (basic running), elliptical trainer, recumbent bike,
    normal bike. I used to like the rowing (erg) machine, but that is too painful. And there were a
    couple of weekends I'd do some extended backpacking trips and some longer bike rides on a road bike.
    But generally when I'm active in these ways there isn't any notable pain.

    I'm guessing the squats and deadlift should go, but perhaps not. I'm trying to think through the
    condition anatomically, but perhaps a few folks out there have battled this condition and make some
    suggestions. I will probably need to bite the bullet and go see a professional at some point (I live
    in rural area with limited options, however), but I'd like to try a little "self help" first,
    avoiding the offending behavior if that might help.

    Any thoughts greatly appreciated!!!
     
    Tags:


  2. Puncturevine wrote:
    >
    > I've been experiencing some pain in my left leg. From the nature of the pain (buttocks and deep
    > mid to low thigh) I believe it is piriformis sydrome rather than sciatica. The pain is usually
    > always above the knee, and tends to be more severe near the end of the day, when getting up from
    > being seated, or when returning to a low seat from standing. Bending over to put on shoes, etc.,
    > will also sometimes cause some pain, as will sometimes sitting (reclining) on my favorite "cushy"
    > couch at the end of the day.
    >
    > The pain has been with me now since early December. There is no "injury event" I can think of that
    > would have triggered it. I have tried the Sacro-Wedgy product and stretches with little success,
    > and I'm thinking something in my weekly workouts might be aggravating it. I was hoping there might
    > be some folks out there with some suggestions on exercises to AVOID while I try to get a handle on
    > this. Maybe laying off a few specific exercises will reduce the inflammation, if it's truly a
    > piriformis problem.
    >
    > Mondays I usually did squats, both traditional with barbell and with a hip-sled. Then I would work
    > back and biceps, with a mix of traditional barbell/dumbell exercises and some circuit room
    > machines.
    >
    > Wednesdays was a little deadlifting, chest and triceps, again with a mix of traditional free
    > weight and machine lifts.
    >
    > Friday was a depletion workout of the same exercises done Monday and Wed but with lighter weight
    > and very slow, controlled reps. I will also sometimes do some indoor "gym climbing," which
    > sometimes involves a controlled fall (usually onto the feet) from 6-8' up onto a thick foam mat.
    > I'm about 6'1" and 200lbs.
    >
    > For aerobic training I do around 20-30 of interval training on any of the following: stairmaster
    > (with some deep steps now and then), treadmill (basic running), elliptical trainer, recumbent
    > bike, normal bike. I used to like the rowing (erg) machine, but that is too painful. And there
    > were a couple of weekends I'd do some extended backpacking trips and some longer bike rides on a
    > road bike. But generally when I'm active in these ways there isn't any notable pain.
    >
    > I'm guessing the squats and deadlift should go, but perhaps not. I'm trying to think through the
    > condition anatomically, but perhaps a few folks out there have battled this condition and make
    > some suggestions. I will probably need to bite the bullet and go see a professional at some point
    > (I live in rural area with limited options, however), but I'd like to try a little "self help"
    > first, avoiding the offending behavior if that might help.
    >
    > Any thoughts greatly appreciated!!!

    I would continue your search for a good stretch. Plain old splits in their various forms ought to
    help, lunge-type stretches might do something. You can actually work on strength and flexibility at
    the same time if you do some of the old-fashioned presses like the bent press, side press, windmill
    (based on the yoga "triangle"). I might also try to avoid things that tighten the hip flexors like
    the bike and stair stepper.

    -S-
     
  3. In article <[email protected]>, Steve Freides <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Puncturevine wrote:
    > >
    > > I've been experiencing some pain in my left leg. From the nature of the pain (buttocks and deep
    > > mid to low thigh) I believe it is piriformis sydrome rather than sciatica. The pain is usually
    > > always above the knee, and tends to be more severe near the end of the day, when getting up from
    > > being seated, or when returning to a low seat from standing. Bending over to put on shoes, etc.,
    > > will also sometimes cause some pain, as will sometimes sitting (reclining) on my favorite
    > > "cushy" couch at the end of the day.

    > > Any thoughts greatly appreciated!!!
    >
    > I would continue your search for a good stretch. Plain old splits in their various forms ought to
    > help, lunge-type stretches might do something. You can actually work on strength and flexibility
    > at the same time if you do some of the old-fashioned presses like the bent press, side press,
    > windmill (based on the yoga "triangle"). I might also try to avoid things that tighten the hip
    > flexors like the bike and stair stepper.
    >
    > -S-

    I've had problems with that too- pain near the 'sit-bone', and it's REALLY common. The physio showed
    me some stretches, like the 'sciatic spiral'. You lie on your back and pull your knee across your
    body, up toward the opposite shouldr and HOLD it for at least 20 sec. and repeat 3 times on each
    side. And yes, yoga is GREAT For the back. The problem was aggravated in an accident last fall when
    I was hit by a car and landed on my back. But all that stuff has helped, that and going to an
    osteopath. It still gets stiff from time to time and this &**&^^ cold weather hasn't helped. Sciatic
    nerve irritation is really common among cyclists. Find a good set of stretches and do it after every
    workout and ride.
     
  4. Marlene Blanshay wrote:

    > And yes, yoga is GREAT For the back.

    This is a potentially dangerous over-generalization. Some yoga exercises, as taught by many yoga
    instructors, would do way more harm than good for many trainees.

    -Wayne
     
  5. Marlene's stretch is really a glut stretch. I've found that nothing 'stretches' quite like massage
    but who has the $$$ to get that everyday.

    Instead I lie on a tennis ball. I start near the top of my butt and roll across each cheek from
    inside to outside & back again. When I find particularly sore spot I just lie on it. There's also a
    spot between the 'tip' of the shoulder blade and the spine which I find needs a real digging with
    the tennis ball as well. I also roll along my ilio-tibial band - pain! You can also get a bit of
    relief doing this to your calves as well.

    The other really important stretch is the hamstrings. Keep hip straight and feet shoulder width
    apart. Put you foot on a chair and relax the whole leg (esp. your foot/ankle). Keep you leg slightly
    bent and 'drag' you leg backwards. This stretch isolates the hammie in a way that a straight leg
    stretch won't.

    Once you've done this for about a week - visit an osteo or chiro. Adjustments will last longer and
    be easier to achieve if you already a bit loose.

    Scott

    "Marlene Blanshay" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>, Steve Freides
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > Puncturevine wrote:
    > > >
    > > > I've been experiencing some pain in my left leg. From the nature of the pain (buttocks and
    > > > deep mid to low thigh) I believe it is
    >
    >
    > I've had problems with that too- pain near the 'sit-bone', and it's REALLY common. The physio
    > showed me some stretches, like the 'sciatic spiral'. You lie on your back and pull your knee
    > across your body, up toward the opposite shouldr and HOLD it for at least 20 sec. and repeat 3
    > times on each side. And yes, yoga is GREAT For the back. The problem was aggravated in an accident
    > last fall when I was hit by a car and landed on my back. But all that stuff has helped, that and
    > going to an osteopath. It still gets stiff from time to time and this &**&^^ cold weather hasn't
    > helped. Sciatic nerve irritation is really common among cyclists. Find a good set of stretches and
    > do it after every workout and ride.
     
  6. In article <[email protected]>, "Wayne S. Hill" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Marlene Blanshay wrote:
    >
    > > And yes, yoga is GREAT For the back.
    >
    > This is a potentially dangerous over-generalization. Some yoga exercises, as taught by many yoga
    > instructors, would do way more harm than good for many trainees.
    >
    > -Wayne

    Yeah, I am not sure about some of them either, like the plow or bending over backward, but the whole
    point is that you do what you can and done correctly, it's beneficial for flexibility, circulation
    and relaxation, great for stiff joints and tense muscles.
     
  7. Hutch

    Hutch Guest

    "Puncturevine" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I've been experiencing some pain in my left leg. From the nature of the pain (buttocks and deep
    > mid to low thigh) I believe it is piriformis sydrome rather than sciatica. The pain is usually
    > always above the knee, and tends to be more severe near the end of the day, when getting up from
    > being seated, or when returning to a low seat from standing. Bending over to put on shoes, etc.,
    > will also sometimes cause some pain, as will sometimes sitting (reclining) on my favorite "cushy"
    > couch at the end of the day.
    >
    > The pain has been with me now since early December. There is no "injury event" I can think of that
    > would have triggered it. I have tried the Sacro-Wedgy product and stretches with little success,
    > and I'm thinking something in my weekly workouts might be aggravating it. I was hoping there might
    > be some folks out there with some suggestions on exercises to AVOID while I try to get a handle on
    > this. Maybe laying off a few specific exercises will reduce the inflammation, if it's truly a
    > piriformis problem.
    >
    > Mondays I usually did squats, both traditional with barbell and with a hip-sled. Then I would work
    > back and biceps, with a mix of traditional barbell/dumbell exercises and some circuit room
    > machines.
    >
    > Wednesdays was a little deadlifting, chest and triceps, again with a mix of traditional free
    > weight and machine lifts.
    >
    > Friday was a depletion workout of the same exercises done Monday and Wed but with lighter weight
    > and very slow, controlled reps. I will also sometimes do some indoor "gym climbing," which
    > sometimes involves a controlled fall (usually onto the feet) from 6-8' up onto a thick foam mat.
    > I'm about 6'1" and 200lbs.
    >
    > For aerobic training I do around 20-30 of interval training on any of the following: stairmaster
    > (with some deep steps now and then), treadmill (basic running), elliptical trainer, recumbent
    > bike, normal bike. I used to like the rowing (erg) machine, but that is too painful. And there
    > were a couple of weekends I'd do some extended backpacking trips and some longer bike rides on a
    > road bike. But generally when I'm active in these ways there isn't any notable pain.
    >
    > I'm guessing the squats and deadlift should go, but perhaps not. I'm trying to think through the
    > condition anatomically, but perhaps a few folks out there have battled this condition and make
    > some suggestions. I will probably need to bite the bullet and go see a professional at some point
    > (I live in rural area with limited options, however), but I'd like to try a little "self help"
    > first, avoiding the offending behavior if that might help.
    >
    > Any thoughts greatly appreciated!!!

    Working out is great for the body, but if you do have problems with the nerves you have to be
    careful what you do because you can do more harm than good. When I first hurt my back I did all the
    workouts I was told to do and wound up causing a lot more damage to the back & nerves. By the time I
    had back surgery they said I should never have done what I did even though they had me doing it. If
    the workouts cause you to have more or different pain then really think about seeing a Dr. It is
    always a good idea to get checked out if the pain lasts for more than a few days.

    Good Luck Pat
     
  8. Jeff

    Jeff Guest

    Hutch,

    My pain was very similar to what you are describing only I let it go for about 5 years
    because......well, I don't like to go to the doctors. It turned out that I have DDD and after a
    discogram they discovered that two of the disc are "blown out".

    I'd suggest having the discogram because it is definitive. It is painful though.

    Jeff

    "Hutch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Puncturevine" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > I've been experiencing some pain in my left leg. From the nature of the pain (buttocks and deep
    > > mid to low thigh) I believe it is piriformis sydrome rather than sciatica. The pain is usually
    > > always above the knee, and tends to be more severe near the end of the day, when getting up from
    > > being seated, or when returning to a low seat from standing. Bending over to put on shoes, etc.,
    > > will also sometimes cause some pain, as will sometimes sitting (reclining) on my favorite
    > > "cushy" couch at the end of the day.
    > >
    > > The pain has been with me now since early December. There is no "injury event" I can think of
    > > that would have triggered it. I have tried the Sacro-Wedgy product and stretches with little
    > > success, and I'm thinking something in my weekly workouts might be aggravating it. I was hoping
    > > there might be some folks out there with some suggestions on exercises to AVOID while I try to
    > > get a handle on this. Maybe laying off a few specific exercises will reduce the inflammation, if
    > > it's truly a piriformis problem.
    > >
    > > Mondays I usually did squats, both traditional with barbell and with a hip-sled. Then I would
    > > work back and biceps, with a mix of traditional barbell/dumbell exercises and some circuit room
    > > machines.
    > >
    > > Wednesdays was a little deadlifting, chest and triceps, again with a mix of traditional free
    > > weight and machine lifts.
    > >
    > > Friday was a depletion workout of the same exercises done Monday and Wed but with lighter weight
    > > and very slow, controlled reps. I will also sometimes do some indoor "gym climbing," which
    > > sometimes involves a controlled fall (usually onto the feet) from 6-8' up onto a thick foam mat.
    > > I'm about 6'1" and 200lbs.
    > >
    > > For aerobic training I do around 20-30 of interval training on any of the following: stairmaster
    > > (with some deep steps now and then), treadmill (basic running), elliptical trainer, recumbent
    > > bike, normal bike. I used to like the rowing (erg) machine, but that is too painful. And there
    > > were a couple of weekends I'd do some extended backpacking trips and some longer bike rides on a
    > > road bike. But generally when I'm active in these ways there isn't any notable pain.
    > >
    > > I'm guessing the squats and deadlift should go, but perhaps not. I'm trying to think through the
    > > condition anatomically, but perhaps a few folks out there have battled this condition and make
    > > some suggestions. I will probably need to bite the bullet and go see a professional at some
    > > point (I live in rural area with limited options, however), but I'd like to try a little "self
    > > help" first, avoiding the offending behavior if that might help.
    > >
    > > Any thoughts greatly appreciated!!!
    >
    > Working out is great for the body, but if you do have problems with the nerves you have to be
    > careful what you do because you can do more harm
    than
    > good. When I first hurt my back I did all the workouts I was told to do
    and
    > wound up causing a lot more damage to the back & nerves. By the time I had back surgery they said
    > I should never have done what I did even though
    they
    > had me doing it. If the workouts cause you to have more or different pain then really think about
    > seeing a Dr. It is always a good idea to get
    checked
    > out if the pain lasts for more than a few days.
    >
    > Good Luck Pat
     
  9. Hutch

    Hutch Guest

    "Jeff" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Hutch,
    >
    > My pain was very similar to what you are describing only I let it go for about 5 years
    > because......well, I don't like to go to the doctors. It turned out that I have DDD and after a
    > discogram they discovered that two
    of
    > the disc are "blown out".
    >
    > I'd suggest having the discogram because it is definitive. It is painful though.
    >
    > Jeff
    >
    > "Hutch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > "Puncturevine" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > I've been experiencing some pain in my left leg. From the nature of the pain (buttocks and
    > > > deep mid to low thigh) I believe it is piriformis sydrome rather than sciatica. The pain is
    > > > usually always above the knee, and tends to be more severe near the end of the day, when
    > > > getting up from being seated, or when returning to a low seat from standing. Bending over to
    > > > put on shoes, etc., will also sometimes cause some pain, as will sometimes sitting (reclining)
    > > > on my favorite "cushy" couch at the end of the day.
    > > >
    > > > The pain has been with me now since early December. There is no "injury event" I can think of
    > > > that would have triggered it. I have tried the Sacro-Wedgy product and stretches with little
    > > > success, and I'm thinking something in my weekly workouts might be aggravating it. I was
    > > > hoping there might be some folks out there with some suggestions on exercises to AVOID while I
    > > > try to get a handle on this. Maybe laying off a few specific exercises will reduce the
    > > > inflammation, if it's truly a piriformis problem.
    > > >
    > > > Mondays I usually did squats, both traditional with barbell and with a hip-sled. Then I would
    > > > work back and biceps, with a mix of traditional barbell/dumbell exercises and some circuit
    > > > room machines.
    > > >
    > > > Wednesdays was a little deadlifting, chest and triceps, again with a mix of traditional free
    > > > weight and machine lifts.
    > > >
    > > > Friday was a depletion workout of the same exercises done Monday and Wed but with lighter
    > > > weight and very slow, controlled reps. I will also sometimes do some indoor "gym climbing,"
    > > > which sometimes involves a controlled fall (usually onto the feet) from 6-8' up onto a thick
    > > > foam mat. I'm about 6'1" and 200lbs.
    > > >
    > > > For aerobic training I do around 20-30 of interval training on any of the following:
    > > > stairmaster (with some deep steps now and then), treadmill (basic running), elliptical
    > > > trainer, recumbent bike, normal bike. I used to like the rowing (erg) machine, but that is too
    > > > painful. And there were a couple of weekends I'd do some extended backpacking trips and some
    > > > longer bike rides on a road bike. But generally when I'm active in these ways there isn't any
    > > > notable pain.
    > > >
    > > > I'm guessing the squats and deadlift should go, but perhaps not. I'm trying to think through
    > > > the condition anatomically, but perhaps a few folks out there have battled this condition and
    > > > make some suggestions. I will probably need to bite the bullet and go see a professional at
    > > > some point (I live in rural area with limited options, however), but I'd like to try a little
    > > > "self help" first, avoiding the offending behavior if that might help.
    > > >
    > > > Any thoughts greatly appreciated!!!
    > >
    > > Working out is great for the body, but if you do have problems with the nerves you have to be
    > > careful what you do because you can do more harm
    > than
    > > good. When I first hurt my back I did all the workouts I was told to do
    > and
    > > wound up causing a lot more damage to the back & nerves. By the time I
    had
    > > back surgery they said I should never have done what I did even though
    > they
    > > had me doing it. If the workouts cause you to have more or different
    pain
    > > then really think about seeing a Dr. It is always a good idea to get
    > checked
    > > out if the pain lasts for more than a few days.
    > >
    > > Good Luck Pat
    > >
    > >
    >
    >

    Thanks Jeff

    I already know what my problem is I have 4 hern. disks & will never let them cut again unless I am
    to the point of nothing helping or working for me. My husband has 5 himself & had to let them cut
    last year & wow he got relief for 6 complete days (not a good trade off). But I do thank you for the
    suggestion it may have helped me about 10 years ago.

    Thanks Pat
     
  10. Slowpokey

    Slowpokey Guest

    My 2 cents,

    For the past several years I have done Martial Arts and ridden 4000 miles a year. I am not sure
    about periformis, but splits hurt me very much. The hip bone did not respond well to side or front
    splits. I would get an ugly sounding "pop" when I rode.

    In addition to most of the stretches mentioned in the posts, one other I do is the Illiotibital band
    stretch. Hold on to a rail or whatever with one hand and face sideways. Cross your outside foot in
    front of your inside foot. Now lean into the railing like a ballerina, hip leaning out, head leaning
    in. I put my arm up to increase the stretch (arm leaning in even more). Hold for 20 seconds.

    Also, my riding has improved tremendously with the addition of abs and lower back exercises. Not
    heavy stuff. Just crunches and roman chair for the back. I am 5'8" and when I am lifting heavy, can
    get to 225.

    Have you had your feet checked to see if you need orthotics. I got mine 4 years ago and most of my
    knee pain disappeared.

    One last thing, If I am going for a killer ride (like the annual Death Ride in CA), I wear on of
    those 8 hour heat wraps you can buy at any drugstore. It makes a huge difference.

    My 2 cents...

    Chuck Dahl SlowPokey

    "Steve Freides" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Puncturevine wrote:
    > >
    > > I've been experiencing some pain in my left leg. From the nature of the pain (buttocks and deep
    > > mid to low thigh) I believe it is piriformis sydrome rather than sciatica. The pain is usually
    > > always above the knee, and tends to be more severe near the end of the day, when getting up from
    > > being seated, or when returning to a low seat from standing. Bending over to put on shoes, etc.,
    > > will also sometimes cause some pain, as will sometimes sitting (reclining) on my favorite
    > > "cushy" couch at the end of the day.
    > >
    > > The pain has been with me now since early December. There is no "injury event" I can think of
    > > that would have triggered it. I have tried the Sacro-Wedgy product and stretches with little
    > > success, and I'm thinking something in my weekly workouts might be aggravating it. I was hoping
    > > there might be some folks out there with some suggestions on exercises to AVOID while I try to
    > > get a handle on this. Maybe laying off a few specific exercises will reduce the inflammation, if
    > > it's truly a piriformis problem.
    > >
    > > Mondays I usually did squats, both traditional with barbell and with a hip-sled. Then I would
    > > work back and biceps, with a mix of traditional barbell/dumbell exercises and some circuit room
    > > machines.
    > >
    > > Wednesdays was a little deadlifting, chest and triceps, again with a mix of traditional free
    > > weight and machine lifts.
    > >
    > > Friday was a depletion workout of the same exercises done Monday and Wed but with lighter weight
    > > and very slow, controlled reps. I will also sometimes do some indoor "gym climbing," which
    > > sometimes involves a controlled fall (usually onto the feet) from 6-8' up onto a thick foam mat.
    > > I'm about 6'1" and 200lbs.
    > >
    > > For aerobic training I do around 20-30 of interval training on any of the following: stairmaster
    > > (with some deep steps now and then), treadmill (basic running), elliptical trainer, recumbent
    > > bike, normal bike. I used to like the rowing (erg) machine, but that is too painful. And there
    > > were a couple of weekends I'd do some extended backpacking trips and some longer bike rides on a
    > > road bike. But generally when I'm active in these ways there isn't any notable pain.
    > >
    > > I'm guessing the squats and deadlift should go, but perhaps not. I'm trying to think through the
    > > condition anatomically, but perhaps a few folks out there have battled this condition and make
    > > some suggestions. I will probably need to bite the bullet and go see a professional at some
    > > point (I live in rural area with limited options, however), but I'd like to try a little "self
    > > help" first, avoiding the offending behavior if that might help.
    > >
    > > Any thoughts greatly appreciated!!!
    >
    > I would continue your search for a good stretch. Plain old splits in their various forms ought to
    > help, lunge-type stretches might do something. You can actually work on strength and flexibility
    > at the same time if you do some of the old-fashioned presses like the bent press, side press,
    > windmill (based on the yoga "triangle"). I might also try to avoid things that tighten the hip
    > flexors like the bike and stair stepper.
    >
    > -S-
     
  11. Jimmie

    Jimmie Guest

    The symptoms you described do not sound like a piriformis syndrome, in fact more disc related than
    anything else...I would first get evaluated by a physician who will refer you to either a physical
    therapist or chiropractor. Generally, disc disease elicits or increases pain upon sitting, bending
    over and going from sitting to standing; whereas you probably feel better standing and walking.
    Would recommend finding a book callled Treating your own Back by Mckenzie...good luck

    "Marlene Blanshay" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>, Steve Freides
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > Puncturevine wrote:
    > > >
    > > > I've been experiencing some pain in my left leg. From the nature of the pain (buttocks and
    > > > deep mid to low thigh) I believe it is piriformis sydrome rather than sciatica. The pain is
    > > > usually always above the knee, and tends to be more severe near the end of the day, when
    > > > getting up from being seated, or when returning to a low seat from standing. Bending over to
    > > > put on shoes, etc., will also sometimes cause some pain, as will sometimes sitting (reclining)
    > > > on my favorite "cushy" couch at the end of the day.
    >
    > > > Any thoughts greatly appreciated!!!
    > >
    > > I would continue your search for a good stretch. Plain old splits in their various forms ought
    > > to help, lunge-type stretches might do something. You can actually work on strength and
    > > flexibility at the same time if you do some of the old-fashioned presses like the bent press,
    > > side press, windmill (based on the yoga "triangle"). I might also try to avoid things that
    > > tighten the hip flexors like the bike and stair stepper.
    > >
    > > -S-
    >
    > I've had problems with that too- pain near the 'sit-bone', and it's REALLY common. The physio
    > showed me some stretches, like the 'sciatic spiral'. You lie on your back and pull your knee
    > across your body, up toward the opposite shouldr and HOLD it for at least 20 sec. and repeat 3
    > times on each side. And yes, yoga is GREAT For the back. The problem was aggravated in an accident
    > last fall when I was hit by a car and landed on my back. But all that stuff has helped, that and
    > going to an osteopath. It still gets stiff from time to time and this &**&^^ cold weather hasn't
    > helped. Sciatic nerve irritation is really common among cyclists. Find a good set of stretches and
    > do it after every workout and ride.
     
  12. Puncturevine

    Puncturevine Guest

    "Jimmie" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > The symptoms you described do not sound like a piriformis syndrome, in fact more disc related than
    > anything else...I would first get evaluated by a physician who will refer you to either a physical
    > therapist or chiropractor. Generally, disc disease elicits or increases pain upon sitting, bending
    > over and going from sitting to standing; whereas you probably feel better standing and walking.
    > Would recommend finding a book callled Treating your own Back by Mckenzie...good luck

    I suspect you are right, which is unfortunate since I'm only in my mid-30s. I guess I didn't expect
    to have this sort of problem until I was older. I did a little more research/reading on this and did
    a real easy workout on Fri, but with the following "additional" exercises:

    1. slow, controlled, deep squat with little weight on the Smith machine
    2. some back extensions on the Roman chair
    3. some "Mackenzie"-like stretching, esp. laying on your front and slowly raising yourself to your
    elbows, then outstretched arms, and holding that stretch.

    I could feel a difference immediately after the workout, and I feel pretty good today.

    But I wish I could figure out the cause. I suspect it has something to do with poor lumbar support
    in my office chair and my "cushy couch" at home, both of which I'm sorry to say I spend too much
    time in ;) I bought a small lumbar pad today and can tell the difference using it while sitting on
    the couch.
     
  13. Hutch

    Hutch Guest

    "Puncturevine" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "Jimmie" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > > The symptoms you described do not sound like a piriformis syndrome, in
    fact
    > > more disc related than anything else...I would first get evaluated by a physician who will refer
    > > you to either a physical therapist or
    chiropractor.
    > > Generally, disc disease elicits or increases pain upon sitting, bending
    over
    > > and going from sitting to standing; whereas you probably feel better standing and walking. Would
    > > recommend finding a book callled Treating
    your
    > > own Back by Mckenzie...good luck
    >
    > I suspect you are right, which is unfortunate since I'm only in my mid-30s. I guess I didn't
    > expect to have this sort of problem until I was older. I did a little more research/reading on
    > this and did a real easy workout on Fri, but with the following "additional" exercises:
    >
    > 1. slow, controlled, deep squat with little weight on the Smith machine
    > 2. some back extensions on the Roman chair
    > 3. some "Mackenzie"-like stretching, esp. laying on your front and slowly raising yourself to your
    > elbows, then outstretched arms, and holding that stretch.
    >
    > I could feel a difference immediately after the workout, and I feel pretty good today.
    >
    > But I wish I could figure out the cause. I suspect it has something to do with poor lumbar support
    > in my office chair and my "cushy couch" at home, both of which I'm sorry to say I spend too much
    > time in ;) I bought a small lumbar pad today and can tell the difference using it while sitting on
    > the couch.

    I know it is very hard sometimes if you have injured your back to tell when and how you did it, when
    I did mine I knew what I did as soon as I did it. When my husband hurt his he knew his back was
    hurting but thought it was nothing but a strain. He hurt his buy jumping about 4 feet off a ladder
    that had the bottom part not lock into place. It was one of those like you have in your garage or
    attic that you pull down, except this was a big construction one at a job site. He kept saying after
    he knew what he had done to his back (but I have done that a several times and never got hurt
    before) but as we all know it only takes one time. Hope your feeling better soon but as I said
    before if the pain does not leave please see a Dr.

    Pat
     
  14. Ed Tung

    Ed Tung Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...

    > But I wish I could figure out the cause. I suspect it has something to do with poor lumbar support
    > in my office chair and my "cushy couch" at home, both of which I'm sorry to say I spend too much
    > time in ;) I bought a small lumbar pad today and can tell the difference using it while sitting on
    > the couch.
    >

    I don't think it's possible to underestimate the damage that can be done in a passive way just by
    sitting in a bad chair for 8+ hours every day. It might sound ridiculous to spend 7-800 hundred on
    an office chair, but IMO there are few better investments than a top of the line chair like an Aeron
    or Steelcase Leap with plenty of support everywhere and every part adjustable. Think seriously about
    saving up for one of these, if you don't have one. There are other brands that might be equally
    good, but I can recommend an Aeron from firsthand experience and have heard that Steelcase is
    comparable. I got my latest Aeron from Sit4Less.com, which had very good service. Aeron also has a
    new version called Posture Fit, which has additional lumbar support. I don't know much about it,
    though. BTW, Aerons are guaranteed for 12 years, so one good thing is that you don't have to worry
    about buying a new chair any time soon.

    My two cents.

    Ed
     
  15. In article <[email protected]>, Marlene Blanshay <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Yeah, I am not sure about some of them either, like the plow or bending over backward,

    The plow and backbending are great excercise, but one's body needs to be ready for them. The good
    thing about Ashtanga (Vinyasa) Yoga is that asanas are practised according to a set system of
    asanas. Once the teacher sees that one is proficient enough in the preceding asanas, learning a
    new asana can commence. This method ensures that one 'is ready' for the new asanas both physically
    and mentally.

    Marcus
     
  16. In article <[email protected]>, Wayne S. Hill <[email protected]> wrote:
    >Marlene Blanshay wrote:

    >> And yes, yoga is GREAT For the back.

    >This is a potentially dangerous over-generalization. Some yoga exercises, as taught by many yoga
    >instructors, would do way more harm than good for many trainees.

    Avoid crappy teachers at all costs.

    Marcus
     
  17. Marcus E Engdahl wrote:

    > Wayne S. Hill <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>Marlene Blanshay wrote:
    >
    >>> And yes, yoga is GREAT For the back.
    >
    >>This is a potentially dangerous over-generalization. Some yoga exercises, as taught by many yoga
    >>instructors, would do way more harm than good for many trainees.
    >
    > Avoid crappy teachers at all costs.

    How is the average person supposed to know the difference? This is just like the personal
    trainer problem (although the average yoga instructor is probably much better than the average
    personal trainer).

    -Wayne
     
  18. In article <[email protected]>, Wayne S. Hill <[email protected]> wrote:
    >Marcus E Engdahl wrote:
    >> Wayne S. Hill <[email protected]> wrote:

    >>>This is a potentially dangerous over-generalization. Some yoga exercises, as taught by many yoga
    >>>instructors, would do way more harm than good for many trainees.

    >> Avoid crappy teachers at all costs.

    >How is the average person supposed to know the difference?

    Forget teachers with less than 10 years of experience, forget fancy new 'styles' of yoga and forget
    about practising in a Gym. That should help a lot.

    Marcus
     
  19. In article <[email protected]>, Scott & Ivana
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Marlene's stretch is really a glut stretch. I've found that nothing 'stretches' quite like massage
    > but who has the $$$ to get that everyday.
    >
    > Instead I lie on a tennis ball. I start near the top of my butt and roll across each cheek from
    > inside to outside & back again. When I find particularly sore spot I just lie on it. There's also
    > a spot between the 'tip' of the shoulder blade and the spine which I find needs a real digging
    > with the tennis ball as well. I also roll along my ilio-tibial band - pain! You can also get a bit
    > of relief doing this to your calves as well.
    >
    > The other really important stretch is the hamstrings. Keep hip straight and feet shoulder width
    > apart. Put you foot on a chair and relax the whole leg (esp. your foot/ankle). Keep you leg
    > slightly bent and 'drag' you leg backwards. This stretch isolates the hammie in a way that a
    > straight leg stretch won't.
    >
    > Once you've done this for about a week - visit an osteo or chiro. Adjustments will last longer and
    > be easier to achieve if you already a bit loose.
    >
    > Scott

    Some thoughts from a previous post of mine reponding to a query:

    In health and on the run, Ozzie Gontang Maintainer - rec.running FAQ Director, San Diego Marathon
    Clinic, est. 1975

    Mindful Running: http://www.mindfulness.com/mr.asp http://www.faqs.org/faqs/running-faq/

    In article <[email protected]>, Phil Margolies <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Mariko wrote:
    >
    > > My butt has been hurting since October, and I'm hoping someone might have some suggestions.
    > > Details: I have suffered from iliotibial band syndrome many times, and this may have
    > > something to do with the butt problem. The point of pain is where my bottom attaches to my
    > > leg, and the pain is pretty deep. I can't really sit for an extended period of time because
    > > it starts to hurt.
    >
    > I agree with csrunner1-sounds like piriformis syndrome.
    >
    > Take a look at: http://danke.com/Orthodoc/pirif.html http://www.rice.edu/~jenky/sports/piri.html
    > http://www.rice.edu/~jenky/sports/piri.2.html
    >
    > -Phil

    Ozzie writes:

    Some observations:

    Piriformis

    What it does: Piriformis rotates your thigh laterally (turns it outward). Piriformis abducts
    (ab(Latin) from/away from; duco lead, direct [ad=to or toward]) or turns the thigh away from the
    body when your leg is flexed.

    Piriformis is attached onto the front of the sacrum (origin) and inserts into the top of the
    femur (insertion) - sort of at the top and inward on the greater trochanter.

    Piriformis does most of the work when you turn your leg outwards.

    You now can see how the hyper-tense (overly tight) gluts which has as its job of laterally (outside)
    rotating the thigh. That rotation or turning the thigh outward

    So if the piriformis does most of the work when you turn your leg out along with the gluteus max
    which laterally rotates the thigh, when these muscles become hypertonic (overly tight) they assist
    in rotating the entire thigh...and the lower leg and foot also go along for the ride.

    So more than likely, you'll often see that when you stand or walk or run through some water and look
    at your running foot prints they look like:

    / and not |

    \ |

    / |

    \ |

    and when you stand up brushing your teeth in the morning or standing around not thinking about how
    you're standing and you look down at your feet, you will see

    \/ and not ||.

    Now to correct this you you'll bring the front of your feet \/ together ||.

    But the problem is that, if you go back to what you've just learned from the info about the
    piriformis and the glut max, you'll say to yourself: "Hmmmmmmmm, if I turn the front of the foot
    inward, I won't have done (never good at English when I speak to myself) anything to the
    piriformis or the glut max. How can I best effect those muscles which may be a big part of my
    splay foot stance?"

    Ah now I see what Ozzie's talking about. And you'll say to yourself, "Oh, that's why Ozzie
    thanks Leroy Perry to this day for showing him some of his chiropractic intuition and folklore
    at a workshop which helped Ozzie understand how to effect the foot at the origin of the splay
    footed problem"

    When you are standing \ / and want to get your feet to align | |

    1. View your feet. Note if the feet are \ / evenly or more \ | or
    | / or some ankle between _ _ and | |.

    2. If your feet are \ /, turn your heels outward so that if you were looking straight on into a
    mirror you would not be able to see the inside of your heel like you can when you look at your
    feet and you're standing \ /.

    3. Now that you can't see your heels because you're standing | |, lift one leg and bring it to a
    position so that it is directly aligned underneath your hip. Think of the legs as two columns
    upon which your pelvic is supported.

    4. By turning out the heels first, you're countered the lateral rotational tendency of the
    piriformis and the glut max. (Now isn't that sweet.)

    Two more observations:

    5. If you stand in front of a mirror and tighten your butt muscles you'll see the thighs rotate to
    the outside. You don't even know you're using the piriformis since it's so deep inside...just
    like you know know you're using the psoas to kick a foot ball or kick your dog.

    6. In "Preparation" in Tai Chi, you'll notice that you start \/ and then to get into your
    "Beginning" stance you rotate the heels out to get into | |. When that happens your knees when
    they bend, bend straight ahead. Ahhhhhh.

    Well maybe you don't say "Ahhhhhh" to yourself because you don't know what the hell I getting at.

    Okay, Okay.

    If you chronically have a tendency to have hypertonic piriformi and glutei Maximi (Latin -
    nominative plural) you can now relate to why people call you "tight assed."

    Now trying to run like that \ /, and now ever thinking that your legs and feet are suppose to track
    | |, gives you some sense of the system upon which you stand, walk and run, and realize that those
    unnecessary torques and twists do have their effects over the seconds, minutes, hours, days, months
    and years because you're doing it all the time....unconsciously.

    You're practicing to stand in improper form and style and you're not even thinking about it, let
    alone doing something about except when you consciously stretch and workout...and when you compare
    that to all the unconscious exercise you do by the way you walk, stand, sit and move....you realize
    that 7 or 10 or 20 hours a week of exercise is nothing. Because if you worked out 20 hours a week,
    slept 56 hours a week, you still have over 90 hours a week that you're awake.

    Albeit unconscious, when you are sitting, standing, walking and moving without awareness: It's not
    what you do that gets you in trouble. It's what you do wrong and don't know that you do wrong or
    incorrectly...all of those unconscious seconds...that gets you in trouble. Every injury, every
    overuse syndrome, every ache and pain you have related to physical movement started with a
    millisecond of unconscious improper movement...that you did but didn't know that you did, because
    you never thought about it because you were unconscious thinking or worrying or daydreamsing about
    something else.

    It's not what you know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know that just ain't so.

    Sometimes it feels good to be a pain in the cerebral glutei and piriformi of people who suffer from
    psychosclerosis (English: hard headedness). I know I suffer from it, doesn't everybody? Never mind.
     
  20. Coyotefred

    Coyotefred Guest

    You're probably right about this. I was just hesitant to spend that kind of money before I was
    reasonably certain the chair was the cause of the problem. I've been feeling better based on doing
    the exercises I had described, so it's tough to know whether my "disk damage" (if that's what it is)
    was caused by my sitting (at office or at home), or whether the sitting just aggravates the "disk
    damage" that was caused by something else. I've had the same office chair and home furniture for 4-5
    years now, so one would think I would have experienced this earlier if the seating was a problem.
    But perhaps the effects were just cumulative... ?

    > I don't think it's possible to underestimate the damage that can be done in a passive way just by
    > sitting in a bad chair for 8+ hours every day. It might sound ridiculous to spend 7-800 hundred on
    > an office chair, but IMO there are few better investments than a top of the line chair like an
    > Aeron or Steelcase Leap with plenty of support everywhere and every part adjustable. Think
    > seriously about saving up for one of these, if you don't have one. There are other brands that
    > might be equally good, but I can recommend an Aeron from firsthand experience and have heard that
    > Steelcase is comparable. I got my latest Aeron from Sit4Less.com, which had very good service.
    > Aeron also has a new version called Posture Fit, which has additional lumbar support. I don't know
    > much about it, though. BTW, Aerons are guaranteed for 12 years, so one good thing is that you
    > don't have to worry about buying a new chair any time soon.
    >
    > My two cents.
    >
    > Ed
     
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