Pitching The Rigid Orthotics

email hidden said:

I'd be interested in others' opinions on this............

Background: I'm a 46 year old recreational runner who has been
running for ~12 years. For the last 8-9 years I've had 3/4 length
rigid plastic orthotics.

That's a long time, have you had them refurbished in that time?

Quoted message said:

To be honest I can't remember why I got them
- I think I was having some knee pain. About a year ago I started
dealing with plantar fasciitis. In August of last year I adopted the
Chi Running techniques, which includes flat-footed landing rather than
heel-striking. Things seemed great for a couple of months. Then
everything fell apart.

Chi-Running may be something to try if you start out healthy but I
wouldn't try it or any large change in form if you have knee and foot
problems to begin with.

Quoted message said:

I developed what I thought was sciatic pain. Worked the piriformis -
no help. Eliminated spinal disc issues. Localized the pain to hip/
hip flexor/adductor. Then the PF started returning in earnest. Went
to PT and our normal methods for tackling these issues have not
worked. He referred me to a podiatrist - a different one than did my
original orthotics. (The PT determined - and I saw with my own eyes -
how wearing my orthotics was literally causing some muscles to not
work.)

On the other hand over pronation can cause some muscles to be
overworked.

Quoted message said:

The podiatrist told me to chuck the rigid orthotics and go back to
heel striking. He said my foot structure doesn't enable flat-footed
landing; and that he has had people come in injured who tried the Chi/
Pose forms. He says the current school of thought for most people is
that, even if you over pronate, it is better to let your foot move but
use a motion control show with a good insert like the Superfeet insert
to provide support. He said "they" are finding that attempting to
abruptly stop the pronation can do more harm than good.

Pronation is normal it's over pronation that's an issue. I don't
understand how using a motion control shoe and off the shelf orthotics
are letting your feet move though and how this is any different than
a good prescription orthotic. If your body is use to compensating yes
there can be some effects that may take time to adapt to.
Who are they and do they have studies backing this claim up?
What type of shoe were you wearing with the orthotics?

Quoted message said:

So......what are peoples' experiences with going off of these rigid
orthotics? This appears to be a controversial topic. I'm old enough
to know I'm not going to do this "cold turkey" - I'll try a few runs
and see how it goes.

I wear full length orthotics that are fairly rigid. I don't like 3/4
length ones, I don't think they are appropriate for runners unless you
can fit a flat shoe liner on top of them. I think there can be a
point where there's too much of a good thing when pronation control
shoes are mixed with orthotics also. when I tore my PF a few years ago
I tried Brooks Beast (what an appropriate name) and their top pf the
line stability shoes (can't remember the model off hand) with a pair
of rigid orthotics. I think these combination caused me more pain.
Podiatrists and orthotics are not all created equally, I've found you
have to shop around and find a good doctor. I would also ask them what
they are going to do to resolve the problem if the orthotics don't
help, financially as well as therapeutically.

Quoted message said:

Thoughts?

Thanks.

Jim

HTH
Parker

Parker Race said:

email hidden said:

So......what are peoples' experiences with going off of these rigid
orthotics? This appears to be a controversial topic. I'm old enough
to know I'm not going to do this "cold turkey" - I'll try a few runs
and see how it goes.

I wear full length orthotics that are fairly rigid. I don't like 3/4
length ones, I don't think they are appropriate for runners unless you
can fit a flat shoe liner on top of them.

Dang, now there's my problem. 😉 I wear my 3/4 length orthotics over
the shoe liner. Takes too much time to change shoes otherwise.

Mine do (or at least have) stayed in place with all my running shoes.
They are a pain in the butt with tall boots (winter, mud, hip), but I
use NEOS overshoes over running shoes for winter and have forgone
activities requiring mud or hipboots (mostly work related, although some
exceptions). I have a high instep, so have trouble with tall things
anyway - or "glove fit" shoes like some Montrails.

I think there can be a

Quoted message said:

point where there's too much of a good thing when pronation control
shoes are mixed with orthotics also.

Agreed. My PT took me out of motion control shoes and put me in
stability shoes - but kept the 3/4 rigid orthotic from earlier
podiatrist. Plus a bunch of strengthening exercises. If that didn't
work, then a full-length orthotic was the next step, which we never
took. The full length would have facilitated my boot issue. But I'm not
sure orthotics provide the same feeling as sock liner. Brooks' sock
liners have a pattern on the bottom that helps absorb shock. I tried
replacing them with something "better" since everyone said how lousy
"their" sock liners were in their shoes. The trials never lasted long.
*My* feet like the Brooks liners.

....

Quoted message said:

Podiatrists and orthotics are not all created equally, I've found you
have to shop around and find a good doctor. I would also ask them what
they are going to do to resolve the problem if the orthotics don't
help, financially as well as therapeutically.

Bingo on finding the right practitioner. I found my PT (non-doctor)
really helped, but he's trained in leg biomechanics. He can create
orthotics, although we didn't go that route.

As an aside comment, I tried going off the orthotics several years ago
without luck, but that was before PT strengthening exercises. At this
point, my orthotics may be functioning as much as heel lifts. If I take
the orthotics out, I sometimes have problems with top of shoe hitting
that outside bump on ankle. But the sock liners have been compressed by
the orthotic, so I'd really need to try it in a new pair of shoes. I can
do barefoot drills on gym mats or lawn with no problems, but if I have
to balance for any length of time on one leg, it's still a struggle
(possibly strength issue still, but may be partly structural the way leg
lines up, but not sure). I am more comfortable in a stability shoe. I
can survive a neutral shoe like Cascadia for an hour or two, but my
ankles / achilles feel it later. They don't like the wobble. However,
with another year of strengthening (lots of pocked snow this winter),
that may have changed also.

Dot

--
"The goal is training and adaptation, not destruction and injury."
- John Hardy
http://www.mountainrunning.coolrunning.com.au/misc/training.shtml

I use 3/4 length rigid orthotics for running and use a thin pair of
Dr Scholl's over them. So far (every other day for a month now) my feet
are doing well. Wearing a 3/4 over a liner can be painful if the
orthotic is a bit long and has the forward edge right below the joints...

Swapping the 3/4 inserts to another set of footware is annoying, so I
just asked about a set of foam orthotics. My podiatrist called back and
recommended a (less costly) generic foam orthotic for non-running (he's
also a runner). More when they get here.

Dot said:

Quoted message said:

I wear full length orthotics that are fairly rigid. I don't like 3/4
length ones, I don't think they are appropriate for runners unless you
can fit a flat shoe liner on top of them.

Dang, now there's my problem. 😉 I wear my 3/4 length orthotics over
the shoe liner. Takes too much time to change shoes otherwise.

Mine do (or at least have) stayed in place with all my running shoes.
They are a pain in the butt with tall boots (winter, mud, hip), but I
use NEOS overshoes over running shoes for winter and have forgone
activities requiring mud or hipboots (mostly work related, although some
exceptions). I have a high instep, so have trouble with tall things
anyway - or "glove fit" shoes like some Montrails.