Pizza stones? Tips please



Joseph Littleshoes wrote:
>
> I have never used a pizza stone.


You're missing nothing... pizza stones in a conventional oven are a
joke on the unknowing.. A pizza screen or perforated pizza pan is much
better... even makes it easy to do grilled pizza. Most pizzerias with
real brick ovens are using pizza screens nowadays.
 
sf <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> On 29 Dec 2005 05:51:21 +0100, Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>
>> On Wed 28 Dec 2005 09:36:22p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it
>> Edwin Pawlowski?
>>
>> >
>> > "Pete C." <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> > news:[email protected]...
>> >
>> >> Absolutely positively the most important element to successful
>> >> use of a pizza stone is to run the oven as hot as it will go, 500
>> >> degrees or 550 degrees is even better. It's still not as hot as a
>> >> "real" pizza oven, but it's hot enough for the stone to work
>> >> properly.
>> >
>> > And let the stone heat for a good amount of time too. The
>> > thicker the stone, the more mass to heat so wait al east 15 to 20
>> > minutes.

>>
>> You can force the temperature higher in some ovens by using the
>> broiler setting after initially preheating the oven, since some
>> ovens have a higher cut-off temperature for broiling. It's rarely
>> documented in the manual.

>
> Honest. A good home made pizza doesn't need a blast furnace -
> probably because the door doesn't open as many times as a commercial
> oven does. I can do mine (size equivalent of an extra large) in about
> 8 minutes at 475°.


Do you have an accurate thermometer? The hotter the oven the better.



--
---
Charles Quinn

"Choosing the lesser of two evils, is still choosing evil" - Jerry Garcia
 
You can also use the pizza stone for baking things like calzones and
crusty breads. Carol

Our life may not always be the party we would have chosen, but while we
are here, we may as well dance!
 
On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 06:22:22 GMT, Charles Quinn wrote:

> sf <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
> >
> > Honest. A good home made pizza doesn't need a blast furnace -
> > probably because the door doesn't open as many times as a commercial
> > oven does. I can do mine (size equivalent of an extra large) in about
> > 8 minutes at 475°.

>
> Do you have an accurate thermometer? The hotter the oven the better.


Yes, my oven is accurate and I'm not going to argue with you about
this because I can bake a fabulous pizza in 8 minutes.
--

Practice safe eating. Always use condiments.
 
Dee Randall wrote:
>
> We made pizza tonight. I let my stone heat 1 hour at 550. Each time the
> element comes on, it bakes the stone even hotter, eventually getting the
> stone as hot and hotter than the inside of oven temperature. Don't take my
> word for it, check the bread groups and google. I got this information from
> the scientific breadmaker experts.


That must be a Magic Chef oven.

That's not possible, least not on this planet... because if you can get
something inside your oven hotter than the oven temperature you've just
created energy out of nothing... free energy... you've solved all the
world's energy shortage problems. Your scientific breadmaker experts
are obviously just as stupid as you.

The only way to create a hotter temperature inside an oven is to
increase the temperature until your pizza ignites, than while the pizza
is burning (giving up its energy) its flames will be hotter than the
oven temperature... of course you'll have nothing to eat but ash.
 
Pete C. wrote:
> >

> I personally use a "multi-bake" technique where I brush the crust with
> olive oil and put it in the oven for a few minutes to pre-bake, then
> pull it out, sauce and top it and then back in the oven a few more
> minutes to melt the cheese.


That's an open faced melted cheese sandwich, not pizza.
 
Carol Garbo wrote:
> You can also use the pizza stone for baking things like calzones and
> crusty breads.


Pizza stones are a gimmick, to separate the idiots from their dollars.
Residential ovens have nowhere enough BTU ratings for quick enough
recovery rates for stones to be of any real use other than imagined.
Commercial brick ovens are arranged so that their heating elements or
flames are of significant magnitude and in *direct contact* with the
stones, giving them a high rate of recovery. When product is placed on
stones in your wimpy home oven the instant moisture condensate
immediately lowers the contact area temperature of the stone to below
that of boiling water... poached pizza crust, just great... then when
the temperature finally begins to recover the poached soggy crust
becomes leathery tough, not crisp. And the thicker the stone the
slower the recovery rate, so by buying the most expensive thickest
pizza stones you're simply demonstrating that your IQ is ever lower.
You're far better off with perforated baking pans, or screens... even
the pizzerias now realize they can produce better product and at lower
energy cost with pizza screens and that's what most use nowadays...
darn things only cost like about $3... go to any on line commercial
pizza supply site and you'll see pizza screens in a zillion sizes.
Common sense should tell all but the lowest IQ imbeciles that there is
no way to make a wimpy home oven operate like a commercial pizza oven,
no way whatsoever, I don't care if you put your tombstone in it... the
more **** stuffed into an oven the less efficient it becomes, even
negates the advantage of convection ovens... so go ahead, get the
biggest baddest stones you can find. Unless you increase BTUs it's
just an exercise in moronic mental masturbation.

http://www.servu-online.com/Pizza-Equipment-Pizza-Supplies/Pizza-Pans-and-Pizza-Screens-.asp
 
On 29 Dec 2005 19:55:09 -0800, Sheldon wrote:

> Most pizzerias with
> real brick ovens are using pizza screens nowadays.


Maybe they do back East, but I haven't seen it here. I stay away from
any pizza that hasn't contacted the floor of a pizza oven.
--

Practice safe eating. Always use condiments.
 
Sheldon wrote:
> Carol Garbo wrote:
> > You can also use the pizza stone for baking things like calzones and
> > crusty breads.

>
> Pizza stones are a gimmick, to separate the idiots from their dollars.
> Residential ovens have nowhere enough BTU ratings for quick enough
> recovery rates for stones to be of any real use other than imagined.


I'm not sure on this one, dogturd. Can you post the specific heat
ratings for some common pizza stones and the BTU rates for home ovens
so we can check this out?

> Commercial brick ovens are arranged so that their heating elements or
> flames are of significant magnitude and in *direct contact* with the
> stones, giving them a high rate of recovery.


Never saw one, but this actually makes some sense! Go figure!

When product is placed on
> stones in your wimpy home oven the instant moisture condensate
> immediately lowers the contact area temperature of the stone to below
> that of boiling water... poached pizza crust, just great... then when
> the temperature finally begins to recover the poached soggy crust
> becomes leathery tough, not crisp.


Can you show me where you got the data showing that the stone's surface
temp falls below that of boiling water? Seems to me your theory hinges
on this. If the oven is heated to 500 degrees and the stone with it,
then the pizza would have to draw a lot of heat out of the stone for
it's temp to fall below the BP of water. Of course, the stone is used
because of it's high specific heat, so it holds a lot of heat. The
bigger the stone, the more heat it holds. Therefore, the bigger the
stone, the less likely it is to lose enough heat for it's surface temp
to fall below the BP of water. OTH, because of it's high heat content,
it does not transfer heat rapidly, and the surface area under the pizza
could fall quite a bit before the heat is restored. Hard to say without
real data, which obviously has never occurred to you. You're just
stating an opinion here, not a fact. You know how that goes, don't you
dogturd? Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one.

And the thicker the stone the
> slower the recovery rate, so by buying the most expensive thickest
> pizza stones you're simply demonstrating that your IQ is ever lower.


Actually, the thicker/larger the stone, the more heat energy it
contains, the less impact a pizza would have on it's temperature.
That's the one of the reasons for using the stone in the first place.
The recovery rate of the stone is more dependent on it's material of
construction than it's size.
As for the poster's IQ, I'd say you're on thin ice here, dogturd. We
just did an exercise on the metallurgy of CI & SS, and you didn't fare
too well at all.

> You're far better off with perforated baking pans, or screens... even
> the pizzerias now realize they can produce better product and at lower
> energy cost with pizza screens and that's what most use nowadays...
> darn things only cost like about $3... go to any on line commercial
> pizza supply site and you'll see pizza screens in a zillion sizes.
> Common sense should tell all but the lowest IQ imbeciles that there is
> no way to make a wimpy home oven operate like a commercial pizza oven,
> no way whatsoever,


If there's no way to make a wimpy home oven operate like a commercial
pizza oven, why buy a pizza screen like they use in commercial pizza
ovens?

I don't care if you put your tombstone in it... the
> more **** stuffed into an oven the less efficient it becomes, even
> negates the advantage of convection ovens... so go ahead, get the
> biggest baddest stones you can find. Unless you increase BTUs it's
> just an exercise in moronic mental masturbation.


I think I can agree with you here, finally, dogturd. If anyone is an
expert in "moronic mental masturbation", it would be you!

Happy New Year! Here's hoping you don't get scooped up and thrown in
the trash, having too much fun with you here!! :)

>
> http://www.servu-online.com/Pizza-Equipment-Pizza-Supplies/Pizza-Pans-and-Pizza-Screens-.asp
 
salgud wrote:
> Sheldon wrote:
> > Carol Garbo wrote:
> > > You can also use the pizza stone for baking things like calzones and
> > > crusty breads.

> >
> > Pizza stones are a gimmick, to separate the idiots from their dollars.
> > Residential ovens have nowhere enough BTU ratings for quick enough
> > recovery rates for stones to be of any real use other than imagined.

>
> I'm not sure on this one, dogturd.


I see you're obviously not serious in receiving answers to your
queries.


<BIG SNIP>
 
Sheldon wrote:
> salgud wrote:
> > Sheldon wrote:
> > > Carol Garbo wrote:
> > > > You can also use the pizza stone for baking things like calzones and
> > > > crusty breads.
> > >
> > > Pizza stones are a gimmick, to separate the idiots from their dollars.
> > > Residential ovens have nowhere enough BTU ratings for quick enough
> > > recovery rates for stones to be of any real use other than imagined.

> >
> > I'm not sure on this one, dogturd.

>
> I see you're obviously not serious in receiving answers to your
> queries.
>
>
> <BIG SNIP>


dogturd has cut me off! What will I do, what will I do? Of course, I
can still see and comment on his...
 
"Sheldon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> salgud wrote:
>> Sheldon wrote:
>> > Carol Garbo wrote:
>> > > You can also use the pizza stone for baking things like calzones and
>> > > crusty breads.
>> >
>> > Pizza stones are a gimmick, to separate the idiots from their dollars.
>> > Residential ovens have nowhere enough BTU ratings for quick enough
>> > recovery rates for stones to be of any real use other than imagined.

>>
>> I'm not sure on this one, dogturd.

>
> I see you're obviously not serious in receiving answers to your
> queries.
>
>
> <BIG SNIP>
>


There is no way a pizza takes the temp of a baking stone down almost 290
degrees unless the pizza's frozen solid and the stone's as thick as a legal
pad.
 
On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 20:12:42 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Sheldon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> salgud wrote:
>>> Sheldon wrote:
>>> > Carol Garbo wrote:
>>> > > You can also use the pizza stone for baking things like calzones and
>>> > > crusty breads.
>>> >
>>> > Pizza stones are a gimmick, to separate the idiots from their dollars.
>>> > Residential ovens have nowhere enough BTU ratings for quick enough
>>> > recovery rates for stones to be of any real use other than imagined.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure on this one, dogturd.

>>
>> I see you're obviously not serious in receiving answers to your
>> queries.
>>
>>
>> <BIG SNIP>
>>

>
>There is no way a pizza takes the temp of a baking stone down almost 290
>degrees unless the pizza's frozen solid and the stone's as thick as a legal
>pad.
>


Hi Doug,

In addition, as Dee explained, the stone can easily get much
hotter than the oven setting...

For about 20 years I used a gas oven that had a maximum
setting of 500F. I had a very heavy piece of soapstone in
the bottom.

I used a contact thermometer to measure the temperature of
the stone and a conventional oven calibration thermometer to
measure the temperature of the oven chamber itself.

If I let the oven heat for an hour, the chamber settled to
about 510, but the surface of the stone got up to 625 with
no trouble.

The physics is rather simple: It reduces to the fact that
the oven's thermostat measures the temperature of the air in
the oven. The air, of course, cools much more quickly than
does the massive stone. As a result, with each cycle of the
oven's thermostat more heat is stored in the stone.

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
 
Sheldon wrote:
> salgud wrote:
> > Sheldon wrote:
> > > Carol Garbo wrote:
> > > > You can also use the pizza stone for baking things like calzones and
> > > > crusty breads.
> > >
> > > Pizza stones are a gimmick, to separate the idiots from their dollars.
> > > Residential ovens have nowhere enough BTU ratings for quick enough
> > > recovery rates for stones to be of any real use other than imagined.

> >
> > I'm not sure on this one, dogturd.

>
> I see you're obviously not serious in receiving answers to your
> queries.
>


The personal attacks may have perhaps been a bit unfortunate (it's
always a bit of a shame to see people stoop to your level), but the
poster you were replying to clearly has a far firmer grasp on the
thermodynamics of the situation than you do.

--
Ernest
 
ewdotson wrote:
> Sheldon wrote:
> > salgud wrote:
> > > Sheldon wrote:
> > > > Carol Garbo wrote:
> > > > > You can also use the pizza stone for baking things like calzones and
> > > > > crusty breads.
> > > >
> > > > Pizza stones are a gimmick, to separate the idiots from their dollars.
> > > > Residential ovens have nowhere enough BTU ratings for quick enough
> > > > recovery rates for stones to be of any real use other than imagined.
> > >
> > > I'm not sure on this one, dogturd.

> >
> > I see you're obviously not serious in receiving answers to your
> > queries.
> >

>
> The personal attacks may have perhaps been a bit unfortunate (it's
> always a bit of a shame to see people stoop to your level), but the
> poster you were replying to clearly has a far firmer grasp on the
> thermodynamics of the situation than you do.
>
> --
> Ernest


The personal attacks were deliberate, obviously, in response to
numerous personal attacks by him to many of us in this forum, including
myself. I've found over the years, that the best way to deal with
bullies, physical or verbal, is to mimic their own behaviors. Gets 'em
every time!
 
Doug Kanter wrote:
>
> There is no way a pizza takes the temp of a baking stone down almost 290
> degrees unless the pizza's frozen solid


Actually frozen wouldn't, it's a solid... solids don't readily transfer
energy through conduction with other solids... but ordinary
soft/pliable room temperature dough and with all that wet gloppy sauce
on top when it contacts hot porous stone, most definitely, and
instantly if not sooner, same as if you peed on that stone... well
okay, maybe not you with that widdle dingus you call a ****... as if
*I* peed on that stone. It's obvious you don't cook much, you failed
general HS science, and you know nothing about mass, conductivity, and
vaporization. Sheesh... you don't even have a real adult name, what
kind grown man calls himself *Doug*??? Widdle Dougie. You wanna be
taken seriously it's *Douglas*!
 
"Sheldon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Doug Kanter wrote:
>>
>> There is no way a pizza takes the temp of a baking stone down almost 290
>> degrees unless the pizza's frozen solid

>
> Actually frozen wouldn't, it's a solid... solids don't readily transfer
> energy through conduction with other solids... but ordinary
> soft/pliable room temperature dough and with all that wet gloppy sauce
> on top when it contacts hot porous stone, most definitely, and
> instantly if not sooner, same as if you peed on that stone... well
> okay, maybe not you with that widdle dingus you call a ****... as if
> *I* peed on that stone. It's obvious you don't cook much, you failed
> general HS science, and you know nothing about mass, conductivity, and
> vaporization. Sheesh... you don't even have a real adult name, what
> kind grown man calls himself *Doug*??? Widdle Dougie. You wanna be
> taken seriously it's *Douglas*!
>


Sorry, Sheldon, but if the dough was moist enough to cause that, you
couldn't even move it onto the stone without it dripping onto the floor. Try
again, putz. Better yet, mommy will be home soon. Get yourself some nipple
and you'll be able to think more clearly.
 
salgud wrote:
> ewdotson wrote:
> > Sheldon wrote:


[snip]

> > > I see you're obviously not serious in receiving answers to your
> > > queries.
> > >

> >
> > The personal attacks may have perhaps been a bit unfortunate (it's
> > always a bit of a shame to see people stoop to your level), but the
> > poster you were replying to clearly has a far firmer grasp on the
> > thermodynamics of the situation than you do.

> The personal attacks were deliberate, obviously, in response to
> numerous personal attacks by him to many of us in this forum, including
> myself. I've found over the years, that the best way to deal with
> bullies, physical or verbal, is to mimic their own behaviors. Gets 'em
> every time!


Oh, I know well enough what he's like. And can't really blame you for
responding in kind. I always was excessively idealistic. ;)

--
Ernest
 
Sheldon wrote:
> Doug Kanter wrote:
> >
> > There is no way a pizza takes the temp of a baking stone down almost 290
> > degrees unless the pizza's frozen solid

>
> Actually frozen wouldn't, it's a solid... solids don't readily transfer
> energy through conduction with other solids...


Actually, that isn't true. Depends on the amount of contact area
between the 2 materials and the thermodynamic properties of each, the
type of bond, and the thermo properties of the bonding material, if
any. Admittedly, most common bonding materials are thermal insulators,
but there are special ones designed for just this purpose (to be good
thermal conductors).

but ordinary
> soft/pliable room temperature dough and with all that wet gloppy sauce
> on top when it contacts hot porous stone, most definitely, and
> instantly if not sooner, same as if you peed on that stone...


I think we have a misunderstanding here. We're talking about putting
the pizza down FACE UP, where dogturd is talking about putting the
pizza on the stone FACE DOWN, with the sauce against the stone!

well
> okay, maybe not you with that widdle dingus you call a ****... as if
> *I* peed on that stone. It's obvious you don't cook much, you failed
> general HS science, and you know nothing about mass, conductivity, and
> vaporization. Sheesh... you don't even have a real adult name, what
> kind grown man calls himself *Doug*??? Widdle Dougie. You wanna be
> taken seriously it's *Douglas*!


Just to put the rest of you at ease, I will not enter a ****-size
comparison with dogturd.
 
ewdotson wrote:
> salgud wrote:
> > ewdotson wrote:
> > > Sheldon wrote:

>
> [snip]
>
> > > > I see you're obviously not serious in receiving answers to your
> > > > queries.
> > > >
> > >
> > > The personal attacks may have perhaps been a bit unfortunate (it's
> > > always a bit of a shame to see people stoop to your level), but the
> > > poster you were replying to clearly has a far firmer grasp on the
> > > thermodynamics of the situation than you do.

> > The personal attacks were deliberate, obviously, in response to
> > numerous personal attacks by him to many of us in this forum, including
> > myself. I've found over the years, that the best way to deal with
> > bullies, physical or verbal, is to mimic their own behaviors. Gets 'em
> > every time!

>
> Oh, I know well enough what he's like. And can't really blame you for
> responding in kind. I always was excessively idealistic. ;)
>
> --
> Ernest


I understand. And I, having been bullied a lot as a kid, and
excessively agressive with bullies, both physical and verbal. Most
consider it a fault, but I have no qualms about it. I probably
shouldn't enjoy bullying bullies so much! :)