Pizza stones? Tips please



"salgud" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> ewdotson wrote:
>> salgud wrote:
>> > ewdotson wrote:
>> > > Sheldon wrote:

>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> > > > I see you're obviously not serious in receiving answers to your
>> > > > queries.
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > The personal attacks may have perhaps been a bit unfortunate (it's
>> > > always a bit of a shame to see people stoop to your level), but the
>> > > poster you were replying to clearly has a far firmer grasp on the
>> > > thermodynamics of the situation than you do.
>> > The personal attacks were deliberate, obviously, in response to
>> > numerous personal attacks by him to many of us in this forum, including
>> > myself. I've found over the years, that the best way to deal with
>> > bullies, physical or verbal, is to mimic their own behaviors. Gets 'em
>> > every time!

>>
>> Oh, I know well enough what he's like. And can't really blame you for
>> responding in kind. I always was excessively idealistic. ;)
>>
>> --
>> Ernest

>
> I understand. And I, having been bullied a lot as a kid, and
> excessively agressive with bullies, both physical and verbal. Most
> consider it a fault, but I have no qualms about it. I probably
> shouldn't enjoy bullying bullies so much! :)
>


Nah...don't apologize. Bullies and trolls *WANT* to be treated that way.
You're being a good neighbor.
 
Doug Kanter wrote:
> "salgud" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > ewdotson wrote:
> >> salgud wrote:
> >> > ewdotson wrote:
> >> > > Sheldon wrote:
> >>
> >> [snip]
> >>
> >> > > > I see you're obviously not serious in receiving answers to your
> >> > > > queries.
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> > > The personal attacks may have perhaps been a bit unfortunate (it's
> >> > > always a bit of a shame to see people stoop to your level), but the
> >> > > poster you were replying to clearly has a far firmer grasp on the
> >> > > thermodynamics of the situation than you do.
> >> > The personal attacks were deliberate, obviously, in response to
> >> > numerous personal attacks by him to many of us in this forum, including
> >> > myself. I've found over the years, that the best way to deal with
> >> > bullies, physical or verbal, is to mimic their own behaviors. Gets 'em
> >> > every time!
> >>
> >> Oh, I know well enough what he's like. And can't really blame you for
> >> responding in kind. I always was excessively idealistic. ;)
> >>
> >> --
> >> Ernest

> >
> > I understand. And I, having been bullied a lot as a kid, and
> > excessively agressive with bullies, both physical and verbal. Most
> > consider it a fault, but I have no qualms about it. I probably
> > shouldn't enjoy bullying bullies so much! :)
> >

>
> Nah...don't apologize. Bullies and trolls *WANT* to be treated that way.
> You're being a good neighbor.


ROFLMAO! Reminds me of that old joke, "What's the worst thing a sadist
can do to a masochist?"



Nothing.

Happy New Year!
 
"Sheldon" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>
> Carol Garbo wrote:
>> You can also use the pizza stone for baking things like calzones and
>> crusty breads.

>
> Pizza stones are a gimmick, to separate the idiots from their dollars.
> Residential ovens have nowhere enough BTU ratings for quick enough
> recovery rates for stones to be of any real use other than imagined.


We did suggest heating the oven for an hour at the highest setting. The
recovery will be quicker this way as the whole oven has had the
temperature soaked in. Not exactly a commercial pizza oven but better
than the wait for the light to click off and then cram the pizza in.



> Common sense should tell all but the lowest IQ imbeciles that there is
> no way to make a wimpy home oven operate like a commercial pizza oven,
> no way whatsoever, I don't care if you put your tombstone in it... the
> more **** stuffed into an oven the less efficient it becomes, even
> negates the advantage of convection ovens... so go ahead, get the
> biggest baddest stones you can find. Unless you increase BTUs it's
> just an exercise in moronic mental masturbation.


How is the oven less efficient? More thermal mass allows for a quicker
recovery of temperature. Do you use thin pans on your stove top? Don't
want that thermal mass getting in the way of your burner when you dump
cold food in do you? Agree about a convection oven, but they did not
mention about a convection oven.

Again we are trying to suggest the best way to APPROXIMATE a commercial
pizza oven with what one has. When the original poster wins the lottery
they can have a commercial pizza oven built for the two times a year they
cook their own pizza. Otherwise, they can try a method that will help
provide better (not perfect as you seem to desire) results than what they
did that caused them to post asking for help.

Hope you have a better day.

--
---
Charles Quinn

"Choosing the lesser of two evils, is still choosing evil" - Jerry Garcia
 
salgud wrote:

> Doug Kanter wrote:
> > "salgud" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > ewdotson wrote:
> > >> salgud wrote:
> > >> > ewdotson wrote:
> > >> > > Sheldon wrote:
> > >>
> > >> [snip]
> > >>
> > >> > > > I see you're obviously not serious in receiving answers to

> your
> > >> > > > queries.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > The personal attacks may have perhaps been a bit unfortunate

> (it's
> > >> > > always a bit of a shame to see people stoop to your level),

> but the
> > >> > > poster you were replying to clearly has a far firmer grasp on

> the
> > >> > > thermodynamics of the situation than you do.
> > >> > The personal attacks were deliberate, obviously, in response to

>
> > >> > numerous personal attacks by him to many of us in this forum,

> including
> > >> > myself. I've found over the years, that the best way to deal

> with
> > >> > bullies, physical or verbal, is to mimic their own behaviors.

> Gets 'em
> > >> > every time!
> > >>
> > >> Oh, I know well enough what he's like. And can't really blame

> you for
> > >> responding in kind. I always was excessively idealistic. ;)
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Ernest
> > >
> > > I understand. And I, having been bullied a lot as a kid, and
> > > excessively agressive with bullies, both physical and verbal. Most

>
> > > consider it a fault, but I have no qualms about it. I probably
> > > shouldn't enjoy bullying bullies so much! :)
> > >

> >
> > Nah...don't apologize. Bullies and trolls *WANT* to be treated that

> way.
> > You're being a good neighbor.

>
> ROFLMAO! Reminds me of that old joke, "What's the worst thing a sadist
>
> can do to a masochist?"
>
> Nothing.
>
> Happy New Year!


What amazes me about sheldon and his ilk is that every now and then they
speak to you quite civilly as if they had never offended you, or at
least attempted to do so, never tried to 'bully' you. I have
experienced this here with sheldon and in various other groups with
others of his ilk and in real life as an young person (don't even get me
started on 'family') when otherwise brutal, bullying people act quite
sane.

As if they expect an equally 'normal' response instead of, as in real
life, a look of incredulity, or here in the net an ignoring of their
boorish behaviour as contemptible and any attempt by them to be civil as
not to be trusted.

In real life one avoids these people, shuns them, and that effectively
as most every one else does to, in the net they are a bit more
obtrusive, even with mail filters one sees their vile abusiveness when
others respond to them.
---
JL
 
In article <[email protected]>,
Joseph Littleshoes <[email protected]> wrote:


> > Doug Kanter wrote:


> > > >> salgud wrote:



> > > >> > myself. I've found over the years, that the best way to deal

> > with
> > > >> > bullies, physical or verbal, is to mimic their own behaviors.

> > Gets 'em
> > > >> > every time!



> > > Nah...don't apologize. Bullies and trolls *WANT* to be treated that

> > way.
> > > You're being a good neighbor.



> as most every one else does to, in the net they are a bit more
> obtrusive, even with mail filters one sees their vile abusiveness when
> others respond to them.


Which, of course, is what the two posters above are advocating, seeing
who can make the most obscene and useless posts.

--
Dan Abel
[email protected]
Petaluma, California, USA
 
On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 08:50:46 GMT, Joseph Littleshoes
<[email protected]> wrote:

>in the net they are a bit more
>obtrusive, even with mail filters one sees their vile abusiveness when
>others respond to them.


and with that very last phrase we have a fine summary of the
problem...

All the best
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
 
Sheldon wrote:
> Dee Randall wrote:
>
>>We made pizza tonight. I let my stone heat 1 hour at 550. Each time the
>>element comes on, it bakes the stone even hotter, eventually getting the
>>stone as hot and hotter than the inside of oven temperature. Don't take my
>>word for it, check the bread groups and google. I got this information from
>>the scientific breadmaker experts.

>
> That must be a Magic Chef oven.
>
> That's not possible, least not on this planet... because if you can get
> something inside your oven hotter than the oven temperature you've just
> created energy out of nothing... free energy... you've solved all the
> world's energy shortage problems. Your scientific breadmaker experts
> are obviously just as stupid as you.


Once again, our resident blowhole moron shows he's a moron with no real
knowledge outside his moronic blowhole moronness.

The element is *always* going to be hotter than the oven temperature
when it's glowing. The fact that it cycles on and off means that getting
the oven to a set temperature only needs part of the heat-generating
capacity of the element. It's glowing hotter than any set temperature
and heating the stone every time it comes on. It's heating the stone by
both conduction from heated air and radiation (the glow) which is
considerably hotter than the air.

The temperature of the air in the oven isn't the same as the temperature
from the radiant element. If it were, the broiler wouldn't brown top
surfaces of foods. Put your thermometer up near the broiler element and
see how long it survives, moron. Put some lead up near it and see if it
melts, moron. Melting point of lead...? Look it up, ignorant blowhole moron.

> The only way to create a hotter temperature inside an oven is to
> increase the temperature until your pizza ignites, than while the pizza
> is burning (giving up its energy) its flames will be hotter than the
> oven temperature... of course you'll have nothing to eat but ash.


Learn some physics, fatheaded, pontificating moron.

Pastorio
 
Sheldon wrote:
> Carol Garbo wrote:
>
>>You can also use the pizza stone for baking things like calzones and
>>crusty breads.

>
>
> Pizza stones are a gimmick, to separate the idiots from their dollars.
> Residential ovens have nowhere enough BTU ratings for quick enough
> recovery rates for stones to be of any real use other than imagined.


Oh, look. It's Sheldon offering yet more proof of his lack of education.
Pizza stones are a way to get temperatures *higher* than the thermostat
settings. Recovery time is a function of lots of variables, and largely
irrelevant when making a pizza at home. The heavier the stone the longer
the recovery time, but also the the les impact the pizza will have on
the stone. More thermal mass means better temperature retention.

> Commercial brick ovens are arranged so that their heating elements or
> flames are of significant magnitude and in *direct contact* with the
> stones, giving them a high rate of recovery.


Um, no. Not in direct contact. If gas flames, they would leave soot and
soon be useless for the purpose. If electric, they would heat-stress the
stones and shatter them. Both rely on radiation to heat the cooking
surfaces. Wood-fired ovens sometimes have fireboxes under them, and
other times build a fire inside the cooking chamber. Wood burns cooler
than gas.

Thye stones in commercial ovens are more massive and hold heat better.
And, yes, the heat sources are more forceful, but only becaused they
expect to cook more than one pizza and that BTU capacity is necessary
for volume cooking..

> When product is placed on
> stones in your wimpy home oven the instant moisture condensate
> immediately lowers the contact area temperature of the stone to below
> that of boiling water...


Pure nonsense. Lousy physics. Blowhole moronness.

> poached pizza crust, just great... then when
> the temperature finally begins to recover the poached soggy crust
> becomes leathery tough, not crisp.


Spoken like a true moron with no experience.

> And the thicker the stone the
> slower the recovery rate, so by buying the most expensive thickest
> pizza stones you're simply demonstrating that your IQ is ever lower.


<LOL> Could you be more clownish? The whole process you describe
*doesn't happen* so your description is worth your usual value.

> You're far better off with perforated baking pans, or screens... even
> the pizzerias now realize they can produce better product and at lower
> energy cost with pizza screens and that's what most use nowadays...


<LOL> More expertise from the wizard with *NO* restaurant experience.
Goes without saying; not true about screens. Using a screen has no
effects on energy costs; it merely makes it more forgiving and able to
absorb errors better. Pizza screens are intended for operations that
don't specialize in pizza. The ones with unskilled help, formula
preparations and unsophisticated clientele.

> darn things only cost like about $3... go to any on line commercial
> pizza supply site and you'll see pizza screens in a zillion sizes.
> Common sense should tell all but the lowest IQ imbeciles that there is
> no way to make a wimpy home oven operate like a commercial pizza oven,
> no way whatsoever, I don't care if you put your tombstone in it... the
> more **** stuffed into an oven the less efficient it becomes, even
> negates the advantage of convection ovens...


<LOL> And here, Shecky confuses microwave ovens with conventional or
convection ovens. By this moronic thinking, two baked potatoes would
take longer than one baked potato. That's clearly not the case.

> so go ahead, get the
> biggest baddest stones you can find. Unless you increase BTUs it's
> just an exercise in moronic mental masturbation.


With posts like this, Sheckele has the brilliance to discuss other
people's masturbation. <LOL>

> http://www.servu-online.com/Pizza-Equipment-Pizza-Supplies/Pizza-Pans-and-Pizza-Screens-.asp


Wonderful. Another brilliant bit of research by our resident blowhole
moron. That proves nothing. As usual.

Pastorio
 
Sheldon wrote:
> salgud wrote:
>
>>Sheldon wrote:
>>
>>>Carol Garbo wrote:
>>>
>>>>You can also use the pizza stone for baking things like calzones and
>>>>crusty breads.
>>>
>>>Pizza stones are a gimmick, to separate the idiots from their dollars.
>>>Residential ovens have nowhere enough BTU ratings for quick enough
>>>recovery rates for stones to be of any real use other than imagined.

>>
>>I'm not sure on this one, dogturd.

>
>
> I see you're obviously not serious in receiving answers to your
> queries.
>
>
> <BIG SNIP>


<LOL>

Pastorio
 
"Bob (this one)" wrote:
>
> Sheldon wrote:
> > Dee Randall wrote:
> >
> >>We made pizza tonight. I let my stone heat 1 hour at 550. Each time the
> >>element comes on, it bakes the stone even hotter, eventually getting the
> >>stone as hot and hotter than the inside of oven temperature. Don't take my
> >>word for it, check the bread groups and google. I got this information from
> >>the scientific breadmaker experts.

> >
> > That must be a Magic Chef oven.
> >
> > That's not possible, least not on this planet... because if you can get
> > something inside your oven hotter than the oven temperature you've just
> > created energy out of nothing... free energy... you've solved all the
> > world's energy shortage problems. Your scientific breadmaker experts
> > are obviously just as stupid as you.

>
> Once again, our resident blowhole moron shows he's a moron with no real
> knowledge outside his moronic blowhole moronness.
>
> The element is *always* going to be hotter than the oven temperature
> when it's glowing. The fact that it cycles on and off means that getting
> the oven to a set temperature only needs part of the heat-generating
> capacity of the element. It's glowing hotter than any set temperature
> and heating the stone every time it comes on. It's heating the stone by
> both conduction from heated air and radiation (the glow) which is
> considerably hotter than the air.
>
> The temperature of the air in the oven isn't the same as the temperature
> from the radiant element. If it were, the broiler wouldn't brown top
> surfaces of foods. Put your thermometer up near the broiler element and
> see how long it survives, moron. Put some lead up near it and see if it
> melts, moron. Melting point of lead...? Look it up, ignorant blowhole moron.
>
> > The only way to create a hotter temperature inside an oven is to
> > increase the temperature until your pizza ignites, than while the pizza
> > is burning (giving up its energy) its flames will be hotter than the
> > oven temperature... of course you'll have nothing to eat but ash.

>
> Learn some physics, fatheaded, pontificating moron.
>
> Pastorio


This thread inspired me to make some pizza for dinner last night.

This bit of the thread had me curious as I could see at least
theoretically how a pizza stone directly absorbing the radiant energy
from the ovens element could heat above the ambient temperature above it
in the oven where the ovens temperature sensor is.

So when making my pizza I got out my Fluke 87 with 80TK thermocouple
probe to monitor the air temp near the top of the oven and my IR
thermometer to monitor the temperature of the pizza stone.

At the start, both thermometers were reading 65 degrees. I started the
oven heating to 550 degrees and periodically checked the temperatures.
As expected the pizza stone lagged behind due to it's thermal mass. The
pizza stone eventually made it to the 550 setting a short while after
the ambient oven air did.

I watched for some time while my pizza dough was rising and while I was
rolling / stretching the dough, but there was no overshoot in the
temperature of the pizza stone. It appears that the thermal mass of the
stone is too great for it to overshoot before it's re-radiated the
energy to the rest of the oven.

I expect that the bottom surface of the pizza stone experienced
temperatures in excess of the 550 degree setting, however the thermal
mass and lag prevented these higher temperatures from ever being
reflected in the top surface of the pizza stone.

At any rate, the pizzas came out great with the stone at 550.

Pete C.
 
On 28 Dec 2005 13:46:58 -0800, [email protected] wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I have today cooked myself my first homemade pizza and apart from the
>fact i used wholemeal flour (which turned out quite nice) and it was
>baked on a rectangular baking tray i have to say they turned out very
>nice.
>
>Anyway, I would like to invest in a pizza stone so first of all what is
>the best type - marbel or granite (dont know if granite is the most
>common but it we have many qranite quarries here in Scotland)?
>
>Also, how is a stone supposed to be cleaned? I have read some articles
>and it seems a bit of a chore. Any tips?
>
>Cheers


check out one of these pizza stones...
http://ww2.williams-sonoma.com/cat/...0m1|15|0||||||pizza&gids=sku1242981&cmsrc=sch
I remember putting it in the oven, turning the oven up as hot as it
would go 500 degrees, dusting the stone heavily with cornmeal in order
for the pizza not to stick, buying every variety of shredded cheese
available at the market...

Everyone in my family enjoyed the homemade pizza!

Bill
 
Bill wrote:
>
> check out one of these pizza stones...
> http://ww2.williams-sonoma.com/cat/...0m1|15|0||||||pizza&gids=sku1242981&cmsrc=sch


The text is hipocritical:

"dense ceramic holds heat exceptionally well
"the ceramic is porous"

Hmmm... which is it?


> every variety of shredded cheese available at the market...


Like some 14 types of cheese... how'd the parmesan and feta go with the
bleu...


> Everyone in my family enjoyed the homemade pizza!


no one ever claimed Chronic Taste In Ass Disease ain't hereditary.
 
Sheldon wrote:
>


<snipped>

>
> > every variety of shredded cheese available at the market...

>
> Like some 14 types of cheese... how'd the parmesan and feta go with the
> bleu...


I can't say I've ever seen *shredded* feta or bleu cheese at any market.

Pete C.
 
Pete C. wrote:
> Sheldon wrote:
> >
> > > every variety of shredded cheese available at the market...

> >
> > Like some 14 types of cheese... how'd the parmesan and feta go with the
> > bleu...

>
> I can't say I've ever seen *shredded* feta or bleu cheese at any market.


Sure you have... just that they spell it "grated/crumbled".
 
On 31 Dec 2005 11:01:51 -0800, "Sheldon" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>Pete C. wrote:
>> Sheldon wrote:
>> >
>> > > every variety of shredded cheese available at the market...
>> >
>> > Like some 14 types of cheese... how'd the parmesan and feta go with the
>> > bleu...

>>
>> I can't say I've ever seen *shredded* feta or bleu cheese at any market.

>
>Sure you have... just that they spell it "grated/crumbled".



Hmmm, I can crumble cheese with my hands, can you do the same
shredding - without any tools?

Of course you can, that why your ass is always so raw, your use those
shredders of your to wipe your ass. (ohhh, a shelliebabie post!)


jim
 
On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 14:31:12 -0800, sf <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Honest. A good home made pizza doesn't need a blast furnace -
>probably because the door doesn't open as many times as a commercial
>oven does. I can do mine (size equivalent of an extra large) in about
>8 minutes at 475°.


Tell that too GOOD pizza bakers whose ovens are around 800 degrees!


------------
There are no atheists in foxholes
or in Fenway Park in an extra inning
game.
____

Cape Cod Bob

Delete the two "spam"s for email
 
On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 13:30:19 -0800, "Kent" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Your pizza stone should be HEFTY and HEAVY. You heat it up for one hour at
>550F before your pizza goes on it.
>You NEVER take it out of the oven and wash it. In fact, water never touches
>it. Scrape it off when it needs scraping, and that's it.
>I have had my late brother's pizza stone on the lower oven rack for 25 years
>and everything is fine, particularly the pizza.
>Before plunging away at a gourmet store for yuppies, you might check a local
>restaurant supply house. That where we always buy our pizza paddles, the
>same ones that pizza houses buy.


OMG!! SOmeone in this group knows something. Amazing,
------------
There are no atheists in foxholes
or in Fenway Park in an extra inning
game.
____

Cape Cod Bob

Delete the two "spam"s for email
 
On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 21:37:50 -0500, "Dee Randall"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>>>
>>> Also, how is a stone supposed to be cleaned? I have read some articles
>>> and it seems a bit of a chore. Any tips?

>
>The best tip of all -- use your oven cleaner; comes out brand-spankin' new.
>Dee Dee
>

STOP cleaning the damn thing. Carbon is good!
------------
There are no atheists in foxholes
or in Fenway Park in an extra inning
game.
____

Cape Cod Bob

Delete the two "spam"s for email
 
On 29 Dec 2005 19:55:09 -0800, "Sheldon" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>Joseph Littleshoes wrote:
>>
>> I have never used a pizza stone.

>
>You're missing nothing... pizza stones in a conventional oven are a
>joke on the unknowing.. A pizza screen or perforated pizza pan is much
>better... even makes it easy to do grilled pizza. Most pizzerias with
>real brick ovens are using pizza screens nowadays.


Maybe in Iowa.
------------
There are no atheists in foxholes
or in Fenway Park in an extra inning
game.
____

Cape Cod Bob

Delete the two "spam"s for email
 
On Sat 31 Dec 2005 10:34:52p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Cape Cod Bob?

> On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 14:31:12 -0800, sf <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>Honest. A good home made pizza doesn't need a blast furnace -
>>probably because the door doesn't open as many times as a commercial
>>oven does. I can do mine (size equivalent of an extra large) in about
>>8 minutes at 475°.

>
> Tell that too GOOD pizza bakers whose ovens are around 800 degrees!


I don't have to tell them anything. I never eat their pizzas.


--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
__________________________________________________________________
And if we enter a room full of manure, may we believe in the pony.