Planning to ride in So Cal, Flat protection advice

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Flatbardave, Dec 17, 2015.

  1. Flatbardave

    Flatbardave Member

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    Planning to ride in the Tour De Palm Springs
    What's the best flat protection for riding in So Cal, desert area.
    Be riding a Sirrus :
    DSCF5616.JPG

    Sirrus has Factory tires & tubes:
    FRONT TIRE: Specialized Espoir Sport Reflect, 60TPI, wire bead, Double BlackBelt protection, 700x30c

    Tubes not the type to remove the core to add slime.

    Thinking about buying better tubes & running Slime-pro ?

    Should I put slime pro in the spare tube ?
     
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  2. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    Which length route? For the 50-mile or 100-mile course, maybe 2 spare tubes, a patch kit, a CO2 inflator and 2 or 3 cartridges, tire boot, a pair of tire levers...good ones if you are riding wire beads...and maybe a mini pump.

    I'm not a fan of slime, but lots of folks use Slime and the equivalent liquids successfully. It's been almost 40 years since I rode the Palm Springs area with sew ups, but I can't remember getting an unusually high number of punctures there.

    Damn...just Googled it. Hope's house burned in July of 1973 and I was working in town about a month later! It's hard to believe it's been OVER 40 years!

    Good luck with your ride. Have fun!
     
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  3. Flatbardave

    Flatbardave Member

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    100 mile
    Be first 10o ride
    Ordered 2 tubes for spares.
    Have tubes & tire repair stuff in saddle bag

    Thanks , It'll be warmer than here.
     
  4. Mr. Beanz

    Mr. Beanz Well-Known Member

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    That desert ride is not really much of a desert ride. Pretty populated and a very clean road. I've done it 3 times and never had to worry about desert type plants etc.

    Like any ride, have good tires, 2 spare tubes. If anything should happen, you have 10,000 riders out there, surely one of them will give you a patch or even a tube.;)
     
  5. Froze

    Froze Well-Known Member

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    The last time I rode in Palm Springs was about 40 years ago myself, while there I did the Tramway ride and got to 61 mph but the computer was old too so not sure how accurate it was compared to present day ones. People who have done the Tour de Palm Springs will tell you they get a lot flats due to those thorns. Those stock tires may not cut it for flats since the blackbelt protection is light.

    Anyway, I didn't get that many flats in the city but outside the city area I did, and I got a lot of flats out in the Mojave Desert area of Palmdale and Lancaster from GoatHeads: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribulus_terrestris#/media/File:Trte_003_lhp.jpg . What I learned from living in that region is that Slime doesn't work on road tires, it's only good to about 60 or 70 psi then the air pressure will force it out of even the smallest of holes and you will be flat; plus the presta valves are the crappiest I've ever used and would fail after about 6 to 8 uses!.

    Your best and first line of defense against flats is the tire, if you're worried than get a good set of tires like the Specialized Armadillo All Condition or any Schwalbe tire with the Smart Guard protection belt like the Durano Plus HS 464. All I ever ran was the Specialized tire with a thin racing tube and the tire stopped all goatheads whereas other supposedly great flat resistant tires didn't.

    The second line of defense is a tire liner, but I found with regular tires the Mr Tuffy didn't work real good, once I made the switch to the Armadillo I tossed my liners. However if you're paranoid about flats you can add a Panaracer FlatAway liner which is far lighter and far stronger than the Mr Tuffy. On my touring and commuter bike I have liners only on the rear tires and not on the front since most flats occur on the rear anyways.

    The last line and least effective at preventing flats is the tube, and the only tube that would work even very slightly would be a heavy thorn resistant tube but I would pass on those.

    I got flats using Conti Gatorskin with a Mr Tuffy and a thorn resistant tube with Slime! Those Goatheads would go through all of that, but with all of that my flats did go from 2 or 3 a ride to 2 or 3 a week, but with the Armadillo All Condition tire I went to zero flats in over 15,000 miles of riding in goathead country. If you want to save some money you could buy one Specialized or Schwalbe tire for the rear and get 2 liners to use in the rear and front since the front will be a tire with lessor flat protection built into it.

    My suggestion would be to get the best tire you can afford of the two I mentioned, put a liner in the rear and call it a day.
     
  6. Flatbardave

    Flatbardave Member

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    Thanks.
    Some great info & advice !!
    The liner idea seems like a good one.
    Not Paranoid about flats, have had my share here with glass & wire.
    Not gonna be one of the fastest riders there so time spent repairing flats is
    burning time & want to finish before dark. 10hrs 20 min of daylight there on Jan 23rd
    Sunrise :: Sunset
    6:48 AM ↑ to 5:09 PM
    http://www.timeanddate.com/sun/usa/palm-springs?month=1&year=2016

    1st group is out before sunrise :http://www.tourdepalmsprings.com/event-info/routes/
    "The 100 mile route begins at 6:30 am for experienced and team riders and 7:00 am for the more leisurely rider. "
     
  7. Froze

    Froze Well-Known Member

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    I would be the most concerned about the rear tire and having a flat back there, that one is the most likely to have a flat and will take more time to repair it due to the mechanicals. So at the very least I would get a better tire than what you have back there and install liners in it and on the front tire you currently have. You won't be out that much money for one tire and two liners and it will save you headache on that ride. Make sure your bike is in tip top shape before you go.

    Make sure you carry some food with you, yes I know there are SAG stops that supposedly have that stuff but the last time I did it, which was many years ago, the SAG support was lacking, a couple of the stops didn't have any food at all and one had no water. Volunteers use to be in short supply so we just helped ourselves to whatever was there, so just to be safe carry more food and drink then you think you'll need. More modern times has seen an increase in the popularity of such rides but just to be safe I would carry enough food in case one stop has nothing, and use those SAG stops first for food and water before going after your supply. Carry some cash on the ride just in case.

    The event use to be poorly organized so be mindful of that too, cops won't be at every intersection especially once the middle of the pack has gone through, so watch your intersections. And get back before dark obviously because you won't have lighting and they start removing all the stuff associated with the event. The scenery there will be very nice, the weather will be nice once you warm up, usually in the 70's but could be colder in the morning and will get colder as evening approaches so wear some sort of jacket that you can pack away. Wind can sometimes be an issue too, so depending on what the forecast is you may want to take a windbreak vest.

    Usually the sunshine is pretty high so you may want to use sunscreen, and helmets are a requirement.

    If you know anyone who has done it recently ask them about what to expect and then prepare for the worst just in case the SAG and volunteer support is subpar this year. If you'll be spending the night in a hotel make sure you get reservations NOW! if you wait till a couple of weeks before the event you'll be sleeping on a park bench!

    I use to have a vacation condo I owned and rented out there in Palm Springs so I'm sorted of acquainted with the area and that ride but I still had to get a motel, why? because it was always rented out in the fall, winter, and spring!
     
  8. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

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    Goatheads are unforgiving ...

    You may want to consider "airless"/polyurethane tires ...


    The Bead-to-Bead sizing is critical ... tires are NOT available for some popular rim sizes, so measure your rim size very carefully.
     
  9. Flatbardave

    Flatbardave Member

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    Thanks for the link.

    You have a them ?
    Is weight an issue?
    Will check in CA see it any bike shops have them.
    No flats ever would be sweet !
     
  10. Mr. Beanz

    Mr. Beanz Well-Known Member

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    I'll add that if you want to get back before dark, skip the first rest stop. It is always crazy packed with riders. It's on a big wide road but one can barely walk through the crowd of a thousand or so riders. I've done it 3 or 4 times and the second time I did it I planned to ride through (rather walk through) knowing if I stopped, it would take another hour to get water. Plan on the second stop if I were you.

    If you have decent tires (not bald), that will suit you fine. All that solid tire stuff is overkill. 10,000 riders don't go out there because it is a goat head filled ride. The other deserts mentioned above are quite different from the course of this ride. I see your tires are about $30 each. That will be fine, especially on a hybrid size wheel with 80-90 psi.
     
  11. Mr. Beanz

    Mr. Beanz Well-Known Member

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    BTW, if you are in any kind of shape then you should easily make it back by dark. The ride was hard the first year it was held. 2 to 3 times more climbing. Most riders skipped the 3rd of 2 loops which took the rider back up into the hills. That was in 1997 (or 1998).

    They have since sissified the ride and made it very easy. To the point where it can get boring. I was in decent shape and I did it myself solo in 5:45 ride time with about 20 minutes of rest at a cruising pace. Not racing, no drafting. It's pretty easy!

    It can be misleading on the first 15 miles or so as it heads up into the hills. But once you are beyond that point, it is almost pancake flat, and boring. :D

    It's a nice ride in the sense that it is a fashion show for bikes and outfits! :p
     
  12. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

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    Yes.

    Weight isn't an issue, IMO, but I only have the narrowest size (Daytona) which fit best on a 622-13 rim ... that tire model is "okay" on some 622-15 rims (MAVIC MA-40) BUT not on some others (the bead on the MAVIC Open Pro isn't as snug) ...

    I tested a 4" long sample of the MONACO model several years ago and it fit in the OPEN PRO rim ... but, while it was "okay" for the Open Pro and so 622-15 rims were included a few years ago for the MONACO, it no longer is BECAUSE I suspect it won't fit in some/(most!?!) other 622-15 rims.​

    If you get them, you will think that they are TOO SMALL ... akin to mounting a new sew-up tire on tubular rim ...

    BTW. I recommend AFTER you get them mounted, remove them and re-mount them to ensure that they are seated evenly ...​

    Getting them off the rim takes a great deal of effort, too -- I found that strong thumbs are required.

    Basically, if you have Herculean strength or if you are pure-of-heart then mounting-and-removing the tires won't be a problem.

    You may want to compare them with "commuter" tires & tubes.
     
  13. Flatbardave

    Flatbardave Member

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    Now that is a real good plan. After the 1st rest stop & the climb, it should spread out & less crowded the rest of the way.
    Leave the start with 2 water bottles & a snack & plan to go to mile 42.
    100tdps route.jpg
     
  14. Flatbardave

    Flatbardave Member

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    Can see if they went the same route , in the opposite direction, the hill climb would be more of an issue:
    100 tdps rt2.jpg
     
  15. Mr. Beanz

    Mr. Beanz Well-Known Member

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    After the first climb to the rest stop there is a pretty decent downhill. Us it to recover, don't race down like most fools wasting energy. You won't gain that much ground other than burning yourself out for no reason. This is where it helps to plan ahead and conserve, be smart.

    Are you sure the second is at mile 42? I know there was one at 55, the big one. 42 seems kind of odd.
     
  16. Flatbardave

    Flatbardave Member

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    Got me very interested.
    Gonna put them on the "Stuff I need/want for the bike " list.

    I haven't even ridden the bike other than a 20 mile ride, (winter here)
    & I have a list of things I'd like to do to it , LOL

    New to cycling,
    Is this normal ???

    Got a New chain, new cassette, new saddle, multi tool , tubes

    "want list"
    a new sram front derailleur & shifter,
    now new tires (tubeless wheels, or airfree ?)
    Maybe change to a 10 speed 11-36 cassette.

    Does it ever end ? :eek:
     
  17. Flatbardave

    Flatbardave Member

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    Shows one on the route map. (SAG 2, Travel Center) The 42 mi one might be a shared with the 50 mile ride.
    Then one at about 56.5 , is says "Water Truck"

    Thanks
    "it helps to plan ahead and conserve, be smart."

    Like anything if you "Have a plan, adapt it as needed ."
    & You're way ahead of the game.

    "Ride smarter, not harder "

    Gonna try to make it fun , relaxing, warm weather ride. (no stress allowed)
    1st time over 100k, not gonna push it. Lots of bailout shortcuts along the way if needed.
    Like anything, a little perpetration will make it more enjoyable.
     
  18. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

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    Why are you planning to buy a new SRAM front derailleur & shifter?!?

    FYI. Apparently, you may have what is referred to as G.A.S. (Gear Acquisition Syndrome) in some circles ...

    Unfortunately, once you have it, you will probably always have it.​
     
  19. Flatbardave

    Flatbardave Member

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    The one on the Sirrus doesn't step cleanly for up or down shift.
    Says double on the shifter but IMO it acts like a triple. (3x)
    When I down shift, it goes 1/2 way when I pull the lever, then let go & it goes to the stop.
    But just push the up shift lever a tad & it clicks up to a different detent position.
    Same happens on the up shift,

    The Sram I have on the Kona, is 1 push & click up detent position & 1 push & click down.
    Don't have the 3 click detent positions like the Sora shifter. Sometimes going up I hear /feel the click
    but there is just a tad more to go for the next click so the derailleur hits the stop & don't rub.
    The Sora seems to be a ratchet type shifting up, takes 2 pushes to get it into the right position.

    Another thin I noticed, (which is probably just getting used to riding & preferences)
    I ride with my index fingers on top , touching the brake levers, I have to move them off the brake
    to pull the Sora shifter where the Sram is a thumb push for up & a thumb push for down.

    Having hydraulic brakes, one finger is enough force & might be a habit I need to change.

    Can see a reason to go with one type of shifter on all your bikes
    & with no standards,
    if you change shifters, you have to change the derailleur to match.
     
  20. Froze

    Froze Well-Known Member

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    Why not upgrade to 105, it's just a tiny bit more in cost but a huge improvement over Sora or the Sram. Personally if your current derailleurs aren't broken why fix it? Why spend the money when you might need something else for the trip?
     
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