play in XT cassette

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Francesco Devittori

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Hi all,
I got a problem with a brand new Shimano XT 11-34 9s cassette.
I installed it on a Mavic hub (about '99 vintage) and there is quite a
bit of play ("float"). The play is not lateral (like a missing spacer),
but instead it's like the freehub body splines are smaller than the
cassette grooves.
The problem is *exactly* as the one described in this old thread:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec....st&q=xt+cassette+play&rnum=4#3adbfa906198f716

I don't think this is normal, I never seen this in any road wheel and
my girlfriend's mtb with XT hub and cassette also does not have this
problem.
I tried the same cassette on another Mavic (crossmax) wheel also from
about '99 or 2000, with a very similar hub and the problem is the same.
Same thing happens with a dura-ace 7700 hub.

It's very annoying because it makes a loud noise while pedaling. Is
there any solution? Is this a common problem?

Thanks,
Francesco
 
Francesco Devittori wrote:
> Hi all,
> I got a problem with a brand new Shimano XT 11-34 9s cassette.
> I installed it on a Mavic hub (about '99 vintage) and there is quite a
> bit of play ("float"). The play is not lateral (like a missing
> spacer),


You're missing a spacer.

> but instead it's like the freehub body splines are smaller
> than the cassette grooves.
> The problem is *exactly* as the one described in this old thread:
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec....st&q=xt+cassette+play&rnum=4#3adbfa906198f716
>
> I don't think this is normal, I never seen this in any road wheel and
> my girlfriend's mtb with XT hub and cassette also does not have this
> problem.


That's because Mavic freehubs (road and MTB) come with a thin, about 1mm
spacer on them already, even for 9-sp drivetrains.

> I tried the same cassette on another Mavic (crossmax) wheel also from
> about '99 or 2000, with a very similar hub and the problem is the
> same. Same thing happens with a dura-ace 7700 hub.
>
> It's very annoying because it makes a loud noise while pedaling. Is
> there any solution? Is this a common problem?


The solution is to obtain thin cassette spacers (1mm and thinner). Once you
have this in place, when you tighten down the lockring, it will tighten all
the cogs against each other, and the play, clunking, etc. will go away.

--
Phil Lee, Squid
 
Phil Lee, Squid wrote:
> Francesco Devittori wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > I got a problem with a brand new Shimano XT 11-34 9s cassette.
> > I installed it on a Mavic hub (about '99 vintage) and there is quite a
> > bit of play ("float"). The play is not lateral (like a missing
> > spacer),

>
> You're missing a spacer.
>
> > but instead it's like the freehub body splines are smaller
> > than the cassette grooves.
> > The problem is *exactly* as the one described in this old thread:
> > http://groups.google.com/group/rec....st&q=xt+cassette+play&rnum=4#3adbfa906198f716
> >
> > I don't think this is normal, I never seen this in any road wheel and
> > my girlfriend's mtb with XT hub and cassette also does not have this
> > problem.

>
> That's because Mavic freehubs (road and MTB) come with a thin, about 1mm
> spacer on them already, even for 9-sp drivetrains.
>
> > I tried the same cassette on another Mavic (crossmax) wheel also from
> > about '99 or 2000, with a very similar hub and the problem is the
> > same. Same thing happens with a dura-ace 7700 hub.
> >
> > It's very annoying because it makes a loud noise while pedaling. Is
> > there any solution? Is this a common problem?

>
> The solution is to obtain thin cassette spacers (1mm and thinner). Once you
> have this in place, when you tighten down the lockring, it will tighten all
> the cogs against each other, and the play, clunking, etc. will go away.
>
> --
> Phil Lee, Squid



Thanks, I will try with a 1 mm spacer. Weird that even without the thin
spacer the lockring is able to tighten the cassette (no lateral play at
all).
I just don't understand why they make the splines so much smaller than
the grooves on the cassette.
Extra tightening of the lockring will keep the cogs in place for a
while (squishing them together), but the cassette will probably be a
bit off-center... Am I missing something?
 
On 17 Jul 2006 03:29:47 -0700, "Francesco Devittori"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Phil Lee, Squid wrote:
>> Francesco Devittori wrote:
>> > Hi all,
>> > I got a problem with a brand new Shimano XT 11-34 9s cassette.
>> > I installed it on a Mavic hub (about '99 vintage) and there is quite a
>> > bit of play ("float"). The play is not lateral (like a missing
>> > spacer),

>>
>> You're missing a spacer.
>>
>> > but instead it's like the freehub body splines are smaller
>> > than the cassette grooves.
>> > The problem is *exactly* as the one described in this old thread:
>> > http://groups.google.com/group/rec....st&q=xt+cassette+play&rnum=4#3adbfa906198f716
>> >
>> > I don't think this is normal, I never seen this in any road wheel and
>> > my girlfriend's mtb with XT hub and cassette also does not have this
>> > problem.

>>
>> That's because Mavic freehubs (road and MTB) come with a thin, about 1mm
>> spacer on them already, even for 9-sp drivetrains.
>>
>> > I tried the same cassette on another Mavic (crossmax) wheel also from
>> > about '99 or 2000, with a very similar hub and the problem is the
>> > same. Same thing happens with a dura-ace 7700 hub.
>> >
>> > It's very annoying because it makes a loud noise while pedaling. Is
>> > there any solution? Is this a common problem?

>>
>> The solution is to obtain thin cassette spacers (1mm and thinner). Once you
>> have this in place, when you tighten down the lockring, it will tighten all
>> the cogs against each other, and the play, clunking, etc. will go away.
>>
>> --
>> Phil Lee, Squid

>
>
>Thanks, I will try with a 1 mm spacer. Weird that even without the thin
>spacer the lockring is able to tighten the cassette (no lateral play at
>all).


The play's taken up, but that's different from "tight."

>I just don't understand why they make the splines so much smaller than
>the grooves on the cassette.


Disassembly, manufacturing tolerance. It'd really stink to not be able to remove
the cassette after the inevitable deformation of the freehub body.

>Extra tightening of the lockring will keep the cogs in place for a
>while (squishing them together), but the cassette will probably be a
>bit off-center... Am I missing something?


Look at how off-center the old freewheels were and we never felt it while
riding. This would be off by only a tiny fraction of that.

Ron
 
Francesco Devittori wrote:
> Phil Lee, Squid wrote:
>> Francesco Devittori wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> I got a problem with a brand new Shimano XT 11-34 9s cassette.
>>> I installed it on a Mavic hub (about '99 vintage) and there is
>>> quite a bit of play ("float"). The play is not lateral (like a
>>> missing spacer),

>>
>> You're missing a spacer.
>>
>>> but instead it's like the freehub body splines are smaller
>>> than the cassette grooves.
>>> The problem is *exactly* as the one described in this old thread:
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/rec....st&q=xt+cassette+play&rnum=4#3adbfa906198f716
>>>
>>> I don't think this is normal, I never seen this in any road wheel
>>> and my girlfriend's mtb with XT hub and cassette also does not have
>>> this problem.

>>
>> That's because Mavic freehubs (road and MTB) come with a thin, about
>> 1mm spacer on them already, even for 9-sp drivetrains.
>>
>>> I tried the same cassette on another Mavic (crossmax) wheel also
>>> from about '99 or 2000, with a very similar hub and the problem is
>>> the same. Same thing happens with a dura-ace 7700 hub.
>>>
>>> It's very annoying because it makes a loud noise while pedaling. Is
>>> there any solution? Is this a common problem?

>>
>> The solution is to obtain thin cassette spacers (1mm and thinner).
>> Once you have this in place, when you tighten down the lockring, it
>> will tighten all the cogs against each other, and the play,
>> clunking, etc. will go away.
>>
>> --
>> Phil Lee, Squid

>
>
> Thanks, I will try with a 1 mm spacer. Weird that even without the
> thin spacer the lockring is able to tighten the cassette (no lateral
> play at all).


You're bottoming out the lockring on the threads of the freehub body. The
cassette is likely not tight, as it would be impossible to loosen given the
notched/indexed lockring and 11 or 12-tooth cog.

> I just don't understand why they make the splines so much smaller than
> the grooves on the cassette.


It saves weight. Blame Mavic for being stupid. The one spline is smaller
than the rest... that's all that matters. The back sides of the wider
splines don't serve any functional purpose on a freewheeling wheel. Now if
you were a Sheldon-weld-it-so-it's-now-a-fixed-gear-wheel maniac, then you'd
see a problem.

> Extra tightening of the lockring will keep the cogs in place for a
> while (squishing them together), but the cassette will probably be a
> bit off-center... Am I missing something?


Nope... it'll be off-center in that you may have to adjust your cable
tension and readjust your limits, but it will keep tight. Google up Mavic
spacer crossmax... you'll see lots of references to what I'm talking about.

--
Phil Lee, Squid