Please Sign the Team Astana Petition



thunder said:
correct, there are multiple levels. Subconsciously they know, it is a cognitive dissonance.
The multiple levels thing is true if you are emotionally attached to the person/outcome. If someone is detached, it just goes from TFF's stage 0 (prior to denial) to stage 5. And I assume that was the way it was for the people here who were not Armstrong fans (and I'm not really referring to haters here)...
 
TheDarkLord said:
The multiple levels thing is true if you are emotionally attached to the person/outcome. If someone is detached, it just goes from TFF's stage 0 (prior to denial) to stage 5. And I assume that was the way it was for the people here who were not Armstrong fans (and I'm not really referring to haters here)...
I would say that it depends. It is akin to the phenomenon of seeking out the tragedy of others in order to feel emotion. Some people are caught up in the accomplishments of others because they can partially place themselves in the winning moment and generate the watered down feeling that they accomplished that thing. In attacking that accomplishment, they take on the attributes of a person who is facing the accusation as though it were their own. It isn't as strong in most cases, though in extreme cases the reaction can be as strong as or stronger than the person being accused. In that instance they see themselves as the "protector" or "savior" of that person, and can become quite caught up in the drama of the event. It is pretty sick ****.

edit: I re-read your post TDL, and see that you are speaking of the same thing, only for those who are not attached. I guess what I said is pointless.
 
thoughtforfood said:
I would say that it depends. It is akin to the phenomenon of seeking out the tragedy of others in order to feel emotion. Some people are caught up in the accomplishments of others because they can partially place themselves in the winning moment and generate the watered down feeling that they accomplished that thing. In attacking that accomplishment, they take on the attributes of a person who is facing the accusation as though it were their own. It isn't as strong in most cases, though in extreme cases the reaction can be as strong as or stronger than the person being accused. In that instance they see themselves as the "protector" or "savior" of that person, and can become quite caught up in the drama of the event. It is pretty sick ****.

edit: I re-read your post TDL, and see that you are speaking of the same thing, only for those who are not attached. I guess what I said is pointless.
Correct, regarding the second paragraph. I think we are in full agreement here. I understand what you are saying in the first paragraph, but a person going through such a reaction become emotionally attached to the athlete in question, and that immediately clouds their judgement.
 
TheDarkLord said:
Correct, regarding the second paragraph. I think we are in full agreement here. I understand what you are saying in the first paragraph, but a person going through such a reaction become emotionally attached to the athlete in question, and that immediately clouds their judgement.
Yep, I have two rules in life:
1. Never smell my fingers
2. Live my life and not someone else's
 
thunder said:
House?

there are alot, who refuse to admit the facts, and hide behind specious defenses of definitions of evidence, of procedure.

We are not talking civil liberties. We are trying to get the most realistic picture.

To deny the presence of the positive samples, deny Vaughters and Andreu IM, to deny the insulin and actovegin and blood swabs in the medical waste, is to deny the facts.

The facts are the 6 positives are compromised, but they are what they are. Compromised, but they exist, they exist in that status, where you attribute enough weight according to their compromised status.

To dismiss them out of hand, is, exactly the same as suggesting Armstrong should have his 1999 win taken back because he was doped. You cannot revoke his status in the annals of history because of the compromised samples. But the samples, compromised as they are, exist.

The relationship to Ferrari exists.

You cannot dismiss them out of hand. That is the disingenuousness and insidiousness of defending Armstrong. You have to dismiss all evidence. I do not think the compromised samples existing on their own attribute to much, but the sheer cumulative weight of all information surrounding Armstrong paints the most damning reality.

House can support Armstrong, and say he cannot be sure, but that is insidious, and just as malignant as any cancer, as it allows the Commander in Chief to take you into a war, without the keen criticism, and holding powerful individuals to account.
You're on fire today.
 
thoughtforfood said:
Yep, I have two rules in life:
1. Never smell my fingers
2. Live my life and not someone else's
Thanks TFF. I think I might add one of your rules to my own list.

Never smell TFF's fingers.


There. Thanks.
 
Here's a bit of random trivia that everybody here probably knows but I didn't. L'Equippe and ASO are owned by the same parent company.
 
Crankyfeet said:
Here's a bit of random trivia that everybody here probably knows but I didn't. L'Equippe and ASO are owned by the same parent company.
L'Equipe is just tabloid junk.... well according to Lance..... well that was after they printed lots of lovely stories about him for 7 years then printed one story about his drug use and they all of a sudden became tabloid.... yes cranky its well known that L'Equipe and ASO are part owned by the one company..... however France's libel laws which are more strict that the US & UK ensure independence....
 
Crankyfeet said:
Here's a bit of random trivia that everybody here probably knows but I didn't. L'Equippe and ASO are owned by the same parent company.
Yes, was aware of that. That's the reason why many people here react the way they do when L'Equippe is the first to leak out news about someone's positive test.
 
No wonder...
Signed the Petition, not because I like Astana, but just to have a good race. Hopefully they have similar thing with HR and the French teams(if they want to participate:confused:? )
 
Aquamarinos said:
No wonder...
Signed the Petition, not because I like Astana, but just to have a good race. Hopefully they have similar thing with HR and the French teams(if they want to participate:confused:? )
I don't want to influence your opinion in any way, but I hope you realize that most people who have posted here are joking when it comes to supporting this petition!
 
TheDarkLord said:
I don't want to influence your opinion in any way, but I hope you realize that most people who have posted here are joking when it comes to supporting this petition!
hey maybe we can start a petition to ban the first petition? and of course, we can address it to United Nations


yep, that makes as much sense at the first petition
 
earth_dweller said:
hey maybe we can start a petition to ban the first petition? and of course, we can address it to United Nations


yep, that makes as much sense at the first petition
If someone is willing to create such a petition, I am quite willing to sign it. ;) At least it will go to show the stupidity of the whole business! :D
 
earth_dweller said:
hey maybe we can start a petition to ban the first petition?
It'll never work. DP will start a petition to ban the petition to ban the petition.

I know you think this is funny. And I know that you know that I know you think this is funny. But this is serious.

They'll start just such a petition.
 
Absolutely. It is really unfair for JB and the boys to be paying for sins that they never had anything to do with. Excluding the defending Tour champ without good cause? Unacceptable.
 
freeagent35 said:
Absolutely. It is really unfair for JB and the boys to be paying for sins that they never had anything to do with. Excluding the defending Tour champ without good cause? Unacceptable.
ha ha ha ha
 
freeagent35 said:
Absolutely. It is really unfair for JB and the boys to be paying for sins that they never had anything to do with. Excluding the defending Tour champ without good cause? Unacceptable.
He was on a team with a teamwide doping program. He was the personal project of the manager who was caught red handed paying for transfusion services. And his initials, along with those of his teammates, appear in the coded Fuentes documents. Sounds like good cause to me.

If he is innocent then let's see him come forward and explain the doping program at Liberty Seguros. I cannot believe he was oblivious to the fact that the rest of his team was doped to the eyeballs.
 

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