'Polish Atkins diet'

Discussion in 'Food and nutrition' started by MrPepper11, Mar 28, 2005.

  1. MrPepper11

    MrPepper11 Guest

    Praise the lard
    The 'Polish Atkins diet' recommends eating prodigious amounts of animal
    fat. Can this possibly be good for you?
    By Monica Eng / Chicago Tribune

    Vinka Peschak starts each day by knocking back a full cup of heavy
    whipping cream.

    That's at 8 a.m.

    "At around 11 o'clock I take three or four egg yolks and make some kind
    of omelet with lard for breakfast," the Portage Park resident explains.
    Peschak, a native of Poland, eats her omelet with a cup of buttery
    boiled vegetables and a slender piece of almond toast slathered in more
    butter or lard.

    Dinner is usually a fatty piece of pork or some kind of organ meat with
    lard-cooked french fries and more butter-soaked vegetables.

    In the middle of the day she might have a cup of coffee, "but only with
    a lot of heavy whipping cream in it."

    Peschak has been eating like this for more than five years. She is
    slim, energetic, and says, "I feel wonderful, never tired and never
    hungry."

    She is not on Atkins. She is not on South Beach. Peschak, along with an
    estimated 2,000 Polish Chicagoans -- and 2 million folks worldwide --
    is on the Optimal Diet, a Polish eating plan that requires the
    consumption of prodigious amounts of animal fat -- preferably lard.

    The diet was hatched in Poland some 40 years ago by Dr. Jan
    Kwasniewski, who started developing it while working as a dietician for
    a military sanitarium in Ciechocinek, Poland. There he observed that
    many of his patients were sick, "not because of any pathogenic factors
    .. . . but the result of one underlying cause -- bad nutrition,"
    according to his English language "Optimal Nutrition" book. After
    experimenting on his family and himself, Kwasniewski concluded that the
    ideal nutritional combo came from eating three grams of fat for every
    one gram of protein and half a gram of carbohydrates.

    After a couple of decades of refining this theory, Kwasniewski
    published his first book in Poland in 1990. But it wasn't until
    converts came forward with their stories of weight loss and recovery
    from disease in the mid-'90s that the diet really took off it its
    native land and Kwasniewski's books went into wide circulation. Today
    there are at least two magazines devoted to the Optimal lifestyle and
    Kwasniewski writes a twice weekly column for the regional Polish
    newspaper Dziennik Zachodni.

    It was one of these books that made it into Peschak's hands in late
    1998, when she was having lunch with other Polish women at a Chicago
    factory. "One lady who just came back from vacation in Poland showed me
    this book she got there and it made a lot of sense to me." A few weeks
    later, Peschak started the diet.

    It wasn't until more than three years later, though, that Chicago would
    become the North American capital for this eating plan. That's when
    Tomasz Zielinski bought a little storefront on Milwaukee Avenue and
    opened Calma Optimal Foods. The first and only one of its kind in the
    nation, it operates as a deli, meeting center and, as of this spring, a
    restaurant for those on the lard-laden plan. Peschak serves as its
    manager.

    Sometimes called the Polish Atkins, the Optimal Diet severely restricts
    the intake of carbohydrates and sugars, but differs from Atkins by
    de-emphasizing protein and beefing up, or more accurately porking up,
    the fat to a level that would have even made the late Robert Atkins
    reach for his heart.

    250 grams of fat per day

    On average, the diet recommends a whopping 250 grams of fat per day,
    about four times what the FDA recommended for the average person to
    maintain his/her weight and about 10 times the amount of saturated fat
    allowed.

    So despite its popularity in Poland -- Lech Walesa is reported to have
    lost 44 pounds and cured his diabetes on it recently -- the mainstream
    medical establishment there and here is skeptical.

    "I am very against diets like this," says Jadwiga Roguska, a practicing
    internist at the Feinberg School of Medicine at Northwestern
    University. "All high-fat diets are unhealthy in the long term and
    there is absolutely no benefit to weight reduction of this sort because
    it is threatening to health. . . . Of course, high-fat diets will give
    you the benefits of energy and weight loss, but they are just not good
    for you."

    Roguska based her comments on a brief overview of its principles, but
    Chicago physician Mark Sobor has seen it up close and has watched an
    increasing number of his patients in the Polish community embrace it.

    "Kwasniewski is pure fat," says Sobor who practices in Jefferson Park
    and is also a licensed acupuncturist. "Eat fat non-stop. Everything is
    pure fat. The more fat you can take in the better and these people are
    fanatics about it. But the thing is they're all skinny."

    On a recent Sunday morning at the Optimal deli/center in Portage Park,
    about 30 followers of the Kwasniewski plan gathered for a weekly
    meeting and shared their stories.

    There was the ginger-haired firecracker Irena Kozlowicz, 78, of Niles,
    who went on the diet five years ago after Kwasniewski came to speak at
    the Copernicus Center in 1999. At the time she was suffering from
    chronic eye problems, asthma and pain in her knees.

    "Now I can walk better than a young person," she chirps. "I can run up
    six floors of stairs and my grandson can't catch me. He's 17 years old.
    I meet young ladies and they are always tired and sweating, but I never
    am. I didn't need to lose weight, but I lost 8 pounds. I am 78, but I
    feel like I am 50. I thank God for the diet."

    Then there is Jozef Michael Ostrowski, 71, who says he has been on a
    variation of the diet his whole life.

    "Since the occupation of Poland my parents could only afford pork meat
    and liver and blood sausage and lard," Ostrowski says through an
    interpreter. "It is not like I was following this diet precisely but
    generally. At that time I didn't know this kind of natural food was
    good for me. I just knew that I could eat scrambled eggs with a thin
    piece of bread and lard and I would be full all day. I started eating
    regular food like McDonald's and I could not handle the pain and so I
    went back to the diet and have felt better and better every day."

    Chicago physician Christopher Kubik wasn't at the meeting, but in a
    phone interview he said that 4 1/2 years ago he was overweight and
    suffering from fatigue and stones in the bladder. But within a couple
    of months of embarking on this high-fat journey he saw results.

    No more problems

    "I was losing weigh gradually [he lost about 25 pounds in six weeks]
    but I felt fine. Since then, I didn't have any more problems with
    stones, my skin complexion improved and I am still feeling a lot of
    energy," says Kubik, 57, who reports that he breakfasts on fried eggs,
    bacon and string cheese seven days a week. "While I was losing the
    weight I could feel the ketones as a metallic tasted on the mouth, but
    after I reached my optimal weight, [the ketosis] stopped. Now my weight
    has remained steady at about 185, which is in the upper limit of normal
    for my height."

    Kubik, who also has degrees in public health and health law, says he
    does not actively promote the diet, "because it is not considered a
    standard of care and the medical community still recommends low-fat
    diets and it is not something I could support if I were sued." But if
    patients ask, "I tell them that I am on it and have seen positive
    results."

    Sobor has also seen a growing number of Kwasniewski converts who claim
    weight loss is only one of the benefits they've reaped.

    Chester Matuszewski, 46, for instance says that four years ago he was
    diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis and was told there was no way he
    could be totally cured.

    "Every single joint imaginable in my hips, elbows, knees and hands
    hurt," the Jefferson Park resident recalled. Remembering something he
    had read in a Polish newspaper about the Optimal diet, he decided to
    check it out even though it seemed unappetizing.

    "For years I thought that pork is not good for you and I didn't like
    the smell, but I forced myself. . . . After two months I started to
    feel better and I didn't want to attribute it to the diet. But my
    friends also saw a difference in me and I had so much energy. Today
    after four years, I have no pain and no swelling and I am totally
    cured."

    Sobor hears these stories all the time, but still has his reservations.

    "I'm sure you've heard their claims that their joint pain is gone and
    diabetes is gone," he says. "And they say it because it's true. You can
    apparently get a lot of benefits if you decrease your carbohydrate
    intake, and stop taking in all the white flour and stop taking in all
    the refined foods because you are not stressing your body out all the
    time with all of the insulin spikes and becoming hyperglycemic and
    hypoglycemic."

    "But do I recommend the diet? I don't know," he says. "I don't think
    Kwasniewski is as good as Atkins or that it is something you should go
    on for a long time. Now the South Beach Diet that is a nice diet with
    more flexibility. But this Optimal diet is the most radical of the
    low-carb diets."

    No position from the AMA

    In the U.S. the Optimal Diet hasn't yet caught the attention of the
    medical establishment. The American Medical Association doesn't have a
    position on Atkins, much less Optimal. And Lisa Dorfman, spokeswoman
    for the American Dietetic Association, had not heard of it either.

    Still, based on a quick description of the diet, she didn't condemn it
    outright.

    "I can see how this would be a very attractive program, certainly in
    the senior citizen community because these are nutrient dense foods and
    seniors don't need to eat a lot of food," says Dorfman, a licensed
    nutritionist.

    "But for the general public I see where there could be potential
    problems. We just know that long-term high-fat diets leave one with a
    heightened risk of heart disease, stroke and hypertension. This is
    certainly not for children, teenagers or pregnant women.

    "But for this group of Polish seniors I think it's adorable, especially
    if it was developed by someone from the old country. As a
    psychotherapist, I can see where they must feel like you've got to be
    healthy eating this because there is a psychological connection to
    eating these foods. It's old country eating."

    Mmmmm ... headcheese

    Here's a sample daily menu from the Optimal Diet Web site
    homodiet.netfirms.com

    BREAKFAST

    Two slices of homemade headcheese loaf* with mustard
    One soft-boiled egg
    Two cheese-lard pancakes with butter
    Tea with lemon (no sugar)

    LUNCH

    Two slices of baked blood sausage fried in bacon fat
    Tea with lemon (no sugar)

    DINNER

    Broth with two egg yolks
    Hash browns
    One strip of bacon

    DAILY TOTAL: 254 grams of fat and 2,923 calories

    *This Optimal daily menu comes with a recipe for home-made headcheese,
    which requires the following ingredients: half-skinned and de-eyed
    pig's head with ears chopped into pieces, one bay leaf, a couple of
    kernels of allspice and salt and pepper to taste.

    Larding it on

    Here's what you'll find in the deli cases, coolers and shelves of Calma
    Optimal Foods:

    Polish specialties: flaczki (tripe soup), bigos (hunter's stew),
    borscht, Polish sausages, blintzes, even pierogi and paczki.

    Organ delights: pork liver pate, brain croquettes, blood sausage,
    headcheese, brain with vegetable soup and liver and tongue stew.

    Desserts: Jell-O-whipped cream slices; low-sugar, high-fat ice creams;
    poppy seed cakes; and low-sugar cheesecake.

    Dairy products, miscellaneous: heavy whipping cream, jumbo Amish eggs,
    Amish butter, nut-based breads, collagen soups, tubs of house-rendered
    lard, lard with bacon and beef tallow.

    In a nod to the diet's arrival in the States, there's even Optimal
    pizza, larded up with extra bacon, butter-fried mushrooms and a butter
    crust.
     
    Tags:


  2. zee

    zee Guest

    X-No-Archive: Yes

    There's a sizable Polish population in my city.

    Zee









    ; )
     
  3. Roger Rabbit

    Roger Rabbit Guest

    Yikes! This would scare the bejesus out Dean Ornish and company! I can
    just imagine Nathan Pritikin turning in his grave as we speak. :eek:.


    On 28 Mar 2005 16:11:03 -0800, "MrPepper11" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Praise the lard
    >The 'Polish Atkins diet' recommends eating prodigious amounts of animal
    >fat. Can this possibly be good for you?
    >By Monica Eng / Chicago Tribune
    >
    >Vinka Peschak starts each day by knocking back a full cup of heavy
    >whipping cream.
    >
    >That's at 8 a.m.
    >
    >"At around 11 o'clock I take three or four egg yolks and make some kind
    >of omelet with lard for breakfast," the Portage Park resident explains.
    >Peschak, a native of Poland, eats her omelet with a cup of buttery
    >boiled vegetables and a slender piece of almond toast slathered in more
    >butter or lard.
    >
    >Dinner is usually a fatty piece of pork or some kind of organ meat with
    >lard-cooked french fries and more butter-soaked vegetables.
    >
    >In the middle of the day she might have a cup of coffee, "but only with
    >a lot of heavy whipping cream in it."
    >
    >Peschak has been eating like this for more than five years. She is
    >slim, energetic, and says, "I feel wonderful, never tired and never
    >hungry."
    >
    >She is not on Atkins. She is not on South Beach. Peschak, along with an
    >estimated 2,000 Polish Chicagoans -- and 2 million folks worldwide --
    >is on the Optimal Diet, a Polish eating plan that requires the
    >consumption of prodigious amounts of animal fat -- preferably lard.
    >
    >The diet was hatched in Poland some 40 years ago by Dr. Jan
    >Kwasniewski, who started developing it while working as a dietician for
    >a military sanitarium in Ciechocinek, Poland. There he observed that
    >many of his patients were sick, "not because of any pathogenic factors
    >. . . but the result of one underlying cause -- bad nutrition,"
    >according to his English language "Optimal Nutrition" book. After
    >experimenting on his family and himself, Kwasniewski concluded that the
    >ideal nutritional combo came from eating three grams of fat for every
    >one gram of protein and half a gram of carbohydrates.
    >
    >After a couple of decades of refining this theory, Kwasniewski
    >published his first book in Poland in 1990. But it wasn't until
    >converts came forward with their stories of weight loss and recovery
    >from disease in the mid-'90s that the diet really took off it its
    >native land and Kwasniewski's books went into wide circulation. Today
    >there are at least two magazines devoted to the Optimal lifestyle and
    >Kwasniewski writes a twice weekly column for the regional Polish
    >newspaper Dziennik Zachodni.
    >
    >It was one of these books that made it into Peschak's hands in late
    >1998, when she was having lunch with other Polish women at a Chicago
    >factory. "One lady who just came back from vacation in Poland showed me
    >this book she got there and it made a lot of sense to me." A few weeks
    >later, Peschak started the diet.
    >
    >It wasn't until more than three years later, though, that Chicago would
    >become the North American capital for this eating plan. That's when
    >Tomasz Zielinski bought a little storefront on Milwaukee Avenue and
    >opened Calma Optimal Foods. The first and only one of its kind in the
    >nation, it operates as a deli, meeting center and, as of this spring, a
    >restaurant for those on the lard-laden plan. Peschak serves as its
    >manager.
    >
    >Sometimes called the Polish Atkins, the Optimal Diet severely restricts
    >the intake of carbohydrates and sugars, but differs from Atkins by
    >de-emphasizing protein and beefing up, or more accurately porking up,
    >the fat to a level that would have even made the late Robert Atkins
    >reach for his heart.
    >
    >250 grams of fat per day
    >
    >On average, the diet recommends a whopping 250 grams of fat per day,
    >about four times what the FDA recommended for the average person to
    >maintain his/her weight and about 10 times the amount of saturated fat
    >allowed.
    >
    >So despite its popularity in Poland -- Lech Walesa is reported to have
    >lost 44 pounds and cured his diabetes on it recently -- the mainstream
    >medical establishment there and here is skeptical.
    >
    >"I am very against diets like this," says Jadwiga Roguska, a practicing
    >internist at the Feinberg School of Medicine at Northwestern
    >University. "All high-fat diets are unhealthy in the long term and
    >there is absolutely no benefit to weight reduction of this sort because
    >it is threatening to health. . . . Of course, high-fat diets will give
    >you the benefits of energy and weight loss, but they are just not good
    >for you."
    >
    >Roguska based her comments on a brief overview of its principles, but
    >Chicago physician Mark Sobor has seen it up close and has watched an
    >increasing number of his patients in the Polish community embrace it.
    >
    >"Kwasniewski is pure fat," says Sobor who practices in Jefferson Park
    >and is also a licensed acupuncturist. "Eat fat non-stop. Everything is
    >pure fat. The more fat you can take in the better and these people are
    >fanatics about it. But the thing is they're all skinny."
    >
    >On a recent Sunday morning at the Optimal deli/center in Portage Park,
    >about 30 followers of the Kwasniewski plan gathered for a weekly
    >meeting and shared their stories.
    >
    >There was the ginger-haired firecracker Irena Kozlowicz, 78, of Niles,
    >who went on the diet five years ago after Kwasniewski came to speak at
    >the Copernicus Center in 1999. At the time she was suffering from
    >chronic eye problems, asthma and pain in her knees.
    >
    >"Now I can walk better than a young person," she chirps. "I can run up
    >six floors of stairs and my grandson can't catch me. He's 17 years old.
    >I meet young ladies and they are always tired and sweating, but I never
    >am. I didn't need to lose weight, but I lost 8 pounds. I am 78, but I
    >feel like I am 50. I thank God for the diet."
    >
    >Then there is Jozef Michael Ostrowski, 71, who says he has been on a
    >variation of the diet his whole life.
    >
    >"Since the occupation of Poland my parents could only afford pork meat
    >and liver and blood sausage and lard," Ostrowski says through an
    >interpreter. "It is not like I was following this diet precisely but
    >generally. At that time I didn't know this kind of natural food was
    >good for me. I just knew that I could eat scrambled eggs with a thin
    >piece of bread and lard and I would be full all day. I started eating
    >regular food like McDonald's and I could not handle the pain and so I
    >went back to the diet and have felt better and better every day."
    >
    >Chicago physician Christopher Kubik wasn't at the meeting, but in a
    >phone interview he said that 4 1/2 years ago he was overweight and
    >suffering from fatigue and stones in the bladder. But within a couple
    >of months of embarking on this high-fat journey he saw results.
    >
    >No more problems
    >
    >"I was losing weigh gradually [he lost about 25 pounds in six weeks]
    >but I felt fine. Since then, I didn't have any more problems with
    >stones, my skin complexion improved and I am still feeling a lot of
    >energy," says Kubik, 57, who reports that he breakfasts on fried eggs,
    >bacon and string cheese seven days a week. "While I was losing the
    >weight I could feel the ketones as a metallic tasted on the mouth, but
    >after I reached my optimal weight, [the ketosis] stopped. Now my weight
    >has remained steady at about 185, which is in the upper limit of normal
    >for my height."
    >
    >Kubik, who also has degrees in public health and health law, says he
    >does not actively promote the diet, "because it is not considered a
    >standard of care and the medical community still recommends low-fat
    >diets and it is not something I could support if I were sued." But if
    >patients ask, "I tell them that I am on it and have seen positive
    >results."
    >
    >Sobor has also seen a growing number of Kwasniewski converts who claim
    >weight loss is only one of the benefits they've reaped.
    >
    >Chester Matuszewski, 46, for instance says that four years ago he was
    >diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis and was told there was no way he
    >could be totally cured.
    >
    >"Every single joint imaginable in my hips, elbows, knees and hands
    >hurt," the Jefferson Park resident recalled. Remembering something he
    >had read in a Polish newspaper about the Optimal diet, he decided to
    >check it out even though it seemed unappetizing.
    >
    >"For years I thought that pork is not good for you and I didn't like
    >the smell, but I forced myself. . . . After two months I started to
    >feel better and I didn't want to attribute it to the diet. But my
    >friends also saw a difference in me and I had so much energy. Today
    >after four years, I have no pain and no swelling and I am totally
    >cured."
    >
    >Sobor hears these stories all the time, but still has his reservations.
    >
    >"I'm sure you've heard their claims that their joint pain is gone and
    >diabetes is gone," he says. "And they say it because it's true. You can
    >apparently get a lot of benefits if you decrease your carbohydrate
    >intake, and stop taking in all the white flour and stop taking in all
    >the refined foods because you are not stressing your body out all the
    >time with all of the insulin spikes and becoming hyperglycemic and
    >hypoglycemic."
    >
    >"But do I recommend the diet? I don't know," he says. "I don't think
    >Kwasniewski is as good as Atkins or that it is something you should go
    >on for a long time. Now the South Beach Diet that is a nice diet with
    >more flexibility. But this Optimal diet is the most radical of the
    >low-carb diets."
    >
    >No position from the AMA
    >
    >In the U.S. the Optimal Diet hasn't yet caught the attention of the
    >medical establishment. The American Medical Association doesn't have a
    >position on Atkins, much less Optimal. And Lisa Dorfman, spokeswoman
    >for the American Dietetic Association, had not heard of it either.
    >
    >Still, based on a quick description of the diet, she didn't condemn it
    >outright.
    >
    >"I can see how this would be a very attractive program, certainly in
    >the senior citizen community because these are nutrient dense foods and
    >seniors don't need to eat a lot of food," says Dorfman, a licensed
    >nutritionist.
    >
    >"But for the general public I see where there could be potential
    >problems. We just know that long-term high-fat diets leave one with a
    >heightened risk of heart disease, stroke and hypertension. This is
    >certainly not for children, teenagers or pregnant women.
    >
    >"But for this group of Polish seniors I think it's adorable, especially
    >if it was developed by someone from the old country. As a
    >psychotherapist, I can see where they must feel like you've got to be
    >healthy eating this because there is a psychological connection to
    >eating these foods. It's old country eating."
    >
    >Mmmmm ... headcheese
    >
    >Here's a sample daily menu from the Optimal Diet Web site
    >homodiet.netfirms.com
    >
    >BREAKFAST
    >
    >Two slices of homemade headcheese loaf* with mustard
    >One soft-boiled egg
    >Two cheese-lard pancakes with butter
    >Tea with lemon (no sugar)
    >
    >LUNCH
    >
    >Two slices of baked blood sausage fried in bacon fat
    >Tea with lemon (no sugar)
    >
    >DINNER
    >
    >Broth with two egg yolks
    >Hash browns
    >One strip of bacon
    >
    >DAILY TOTAL: 254 grams of fat and 2,923 calories
    >
    >*This Optimal daily menu comes with a recipe for home-made headcheese,
    >which requires the following ingredients: half-skinned and de-eyed
    >pig's head with ears chopped into pieces, one bay leaf, a couple of
    >kernels of allspice and salt and pepper to taste.
    >
    >Larding it on
    >
    >Here's what you'll find in the deli cases, coolers and shelves of Calma
    >Optimal Foods:
    >
    >Polish specialties: flaczki (tripe soup), bigos (hunter's stew),
    >borscht, Polish sausages, blintzes, even pierogi and paczki.
    >
    >Organ delights: pork liver pate, brain croquettes, blood sausage,
    >headcheese, brain with vegetable soup and liver and tongue stew.
    >
    >Desserts: Jell-O-whipped cream slices; low-sugar, high-fat ice creams;
    >poppy seed cakes; and low-sugar cheesecake.
    >
    >Dairy products, miscellaneous: heavy whipping cream, jumbo Amish eggs,
    >Amish butter, nut-based breads, collagen soups, tubs of house-rendered
    >lard, lard with bacon and beef tallow.
    >
    >In a nod to the diet's arrival in the States, there's even Optimal
    >pizza, larded up with extra bacon, butter-fried mushrooms and a butter
    >crust.
     
  4. Dave LCHF

    Dave LCHF Guest

    Thanks for the post. These are the macro-nutrient levels my yahoo group
    believes in.

    If you want to experiment with a High Fat diet, a moderated support group is
    available.

    http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/LowCarbHighFat/

    We now have 156 members.

    The archives can be read without joining.

    If you do join, Yahoo has a Daily Digest option available, where you only
    get one email per day with all the posts.

    Dave

    "MrPepper11" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Praise the lard
    > The 'Polish Atkins diet' recommends eating prodigious amounts of animal
    > fat. Can this possibly be good for you?
    > By Monica Eng / Chicago Tribune
    >
    > Vinka Peschak starts each day by knocking back a full cup of heavy
    > whipping cream.
    >
    > That's at 8 a.m.
    >
    > "At around 11 o'clock I take three or four egg yolks and make some kind
    > of omelet with lard for breakfast," the Portage Park resident explains.
    > Peschak, a native of Poland, eats her omelet with a cup of buttery
    > boiled vegetables and a slender piece of almond toast slathered in more
    > butter or lard.
    >
    > Dinner is usually a fatty piece of pork or some kind of organ meat with
    > lard-cooked french fries and more butter-soaked vegetables.
    >
    > In the middle of the day she might have a cup of coffee, "but only with
    > a lot of heavy whipping cream in it."
    >
    > Peschak has been eating like this for more than five years. She is
    > slim, energetic, and says, "I feel wonderful, never tired and never
    > hungry."
    >
    > She is not on Atkins. She is not on South Beach. Peschak, along with an
    > estimated 2,000 Polish Chicagoans -- and 2 million folks worldwide --
    > is on the Optimal Diet, a Polish eating plan that requires the
    > consumption of prodigious amounts of animal fat -- preferably lard.
    >
    > The diet was hatched in Poland some 40 years ago by Dr. Jan
    > Kwasniewski, who started developing it while working as a dietician for
    > a military sanitarium in Ciechocinek, Poland. There he observed that
    > many of his patients were sick, "not because of any pathogenic factors
    > . . . but the result of one underlying cause -- bad nutrition,"
    > according to his English language "Optimal Nutrition" book. After
    > experimenting on his family and himself, Kwasniewski concluded that the
    > ideal nutritional combo came from eating three grams of fat for every
    > one gram of protein and half a gram of carbohydrates.
    >
    > After a couple of decades of refining this theory, Kwasniewski
    > published his first book in Poland in 1990. But it wasn't until
    > converts came forward with their stories of weight loss and recovery
    > from disease in the mid-'90s that the diet really took off it its
    > native land and Kwasniewski's books went into wide circulation. Today
    > there are at least two magazines devoted to the Optimal lifestyle and
    > Kwasniewski writes a twice weekly column for the regional Polish
    > newspaper Dziennik Zachodni.
    >
    > It was one of these books that made it into Peschak's hands in late
    > 1998, when she was having lunch with other Polish women at a Chicago
    > factory. "One lady who just came back from vacation in Poland showed me
    > this book she got there and it made a lot of sense to me." A few weeks
    > later, Peschak started the diet.
    >
    > It wasn't until more than three years later, though, that Chicago would
    > become the North American capital for this eating plan. That's when
    > Tomasz Zielinski bought a little storefront on Milwaukee Avenue and
    > opened Calma Optimal Foods. The first and only one of its kind in the
    > nation, it operates as a deli, meeting center and, as of this spring, a
    > restaurant for those on the lard-laden plan. Peschak serves as its
    > manager.
    >
    > Sometimes called the Polish Atkins, the Optimal Diet severely restricts
    > the intake of carbohydrates and sugars, but differs from Atkins by
    > de-emphasizing protein and beefing up, or more accurately porking up,
    > the fat to a level that would have even made the late Robert Atkins
    > reach for his heart.
    >
    > 250 grams of fat per day
    >
    > On average, the diet recommends a whopping 250 grams of fat per day,
    > about four times what the FDA recommended for the average person to
    > maintain his/her weight and about 10 times the amount of saturated fat
    > allowed.
    >
    > So despite its popularity in Poland -- Lech Walesa is reported to have
    > lost 44 pounds and cured his diabetes on it recently -- the mainstream
    > medical establishment there and here is skeptical.
    >
    > "I am very against diets like this," says Jadwiga Roguska, a practicing
    > internist at the Feinberg School of Medicine at Northwestern
    > University. "All high-fat diets are unhealthy in the long term and
    > there is absolutely no benefit to weight reduction of this sort because
    > it is threatening to health. . . . Of course, high-fat diets will give
    > you the benefits of energy and weight loss, but they are just not good
    > for you."
    >
    > Roguska based her comments on a brief overview of its principles, but
    > Chicago physician Mark Sobor has seen it up close and has watched an
    > increasing number of his patients in the Polish community embrace it.
    >
    > "Kwasniewski is pure fat," says Sobor who practices in Jefferson Park
    > and is also a licensed acupuncturist. "Eat fat non-stop. Everything is
    > pure fat. The more fat you can take in the better and these people are
    > fanatics about it. But the thing is they're all skinny."
    >
    > On a recent Sunday morning at the Optimal deli/center in Portage Park,
    > about 30 followers of the Kwasniewski plan gathered for a weekly
    > meeting and shared their stories.
    >
    > There was the ginger-haired firecracker Irena Kozlowicz, 78, of Niles,
    > who went on the diet five years ago after Kwasniewski came to speak at
    > the Copernicus Center in 1999. At the time she was suffering from
    > chronic eye problems, asthma and pain in her knees.
    >
    > "Now I can walk better than a young person," she chirps. "I can run up
    > six floors of stairs and my grandson can't catch me. He's 17 years old.
    > I meet young ladies and they are always tired and sweating, but I never
    > am. I didn't need to lose weight, but I lost 8 pounds. I am 78, but I
    > feel like I am 50. I thank God for the diet."
    >
    > Then there is Jozef Michael Ostrowski, 71, who says he has been on a
    > variation of the diet his whole life.
    >
    > "Since the occupation of Poland my parents could only afford pork meat
    > and liver and blood sausage and lard," Ostrowski says through an
    > interpreter. "It is not like I was following this diet precisely but
    > generally. At that time I didn't know this kind of natural food was
    > good for me. I just knew that I could eat scrambled eggs with a thin
    > piece of bread and lard and I would be full all day. I started eating
    > regular food like McDonald's and I could not handle the pain and so I
    > went back to the diet and have felt better and better every day."
    >
    > Chicago physician Christopher Kubik wasn't at the meeting, but in a
    > phone interview he said that 4 1/2 years ago he was overweight and
    > suffering from fatigue and stones in the bladder. But within a couple
    > of months of embarking on this high-fat journey he saw results.
    >
    > No more problems
    >
    > "I was losing weigh gradually [he lost about 25 pounds in six weeks]
    > but I felt fine. Since then, I didn't have any more problems with
    > stones, my skin complexion improved and I am still feeling a lot of
    > energy," says Kubik, 57, who reports that he breakfasts on fried eggs,
    > bacon and string cheese seven days a week. "While I was losing the
    > weight I could feel the ketones as a metallic tasted on the mouth, but
    > after I reached my optimal weight, [the ketosis] stopped. Now my weight
    > has remained steady at about 185, which is in the upper limit of normal
    > for my height."
    >
    > Kubik, who also has degrees in public health and health law, says he
    > does not actively promote the diet, "because it is not considered a
    > standard of care and the medical community still recommends low-fat
    > diets and it is not something I could support if I were sued." But if
    > patients ask, "I tell them that I am on it and have seen positive
    > results."
    >
    > Sobor has also seen a growing number of Kwasniewski converts who claim
    > weight loss is only one of the benefits they've reaped.
    >
    > Chester Matuszewski, 46, for instance says that four years ago he was
    > diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis and was told there was no way he
    > could be totally cured.
    >
    > "Every single joint imaginable in my hips, elbows, knees and hands
    > hurt," the Jefferson Park resident recalled. Remembering something he
    > had read in a Polish newspaper about the Optimal diet, he decided to
    > check it out even though it seemed unappetizing.
    >
    > "For years I thought that pork is not good for you and I didn't like
    > the smell, but I forced myself. . . . After two months I started to
    > feel better and I didn't want to attribute it to the diet. But my
    > friends also saw a difference in me and I had so much energy. Today
    > after four years, I have no pain and no swelling and I am totally
    > cured."
    >
    > Sobor hears these stories all the time, but still has his reservations.
    >
    > "I'm sure you've heard their claims that their joint pain is gone and
    > diabetes is gone," he says. "And they say it because it's true. You can
    > apparently get a lot of benefits if you decrease your carbohydrate
    > intake, and stop taking in all the white flour and stop taking in all
    > the refined foods because you are not stressing your body out all the
    > time with all of the insulin spikes and becoming hyperglycemic and
    > hypoglycemic."
    >
    > "But do I recommend the diet? I don't know," he says. "I don't think
    > Kwasniewski is as good as Atkins or that it is something you should go
    > on for a long time. Now the South Beach Diet that is a nice diet with
    > more flexibility. But this Optimal diet is the most radical of the
    > low-carb diets."
    >
    > No position from the AMA
    >
    > In the U.S. the Optimal Diet hasn't yet caught the attention of the
    > medical establishment. The American Medical Association doesn't have a
    > position on Atkins, much less Optimal. And Lisa Dorfman, spokeswoman
    > for the American Dietetic Association, had not heard of it either.
    >
    > Still, based on a quick description of the diet, she didn't condemn it
    > outright.
    >
    > "I can see how this would be a very attractive program, certainly in
    > the senior citizen community because these are nutrient dense foods and
    > seniors don't need to eat a lot of food," says Dorfman, a licensed
    > nutritionist.
    >
    > "But for the general public I see where there could be potential
    > problems. We just know that long-term high-fat diets leave one with a
    > heightened risk of heart disease, stroke and hypertension. This is
    > certainly not for children, teenagers or pregnant women.
    >
    > "But for this group of Polish seniors I think it's adorable, especially
    > if it was developed by someone from the old country. As a
    > psychotherapist, I can see where they must feel like you've got to be
    > healthy eating this because there is a psychological connection to
    > eating these foods. It's old country eating."
    >
    > Mmmmm ... headcheese
    >
    > Here's a sample daily menu from the Optimal Diet Web site
    > homodiet.netfirms.com
    >
    > BREAKFAST
    >
    > Two slices of homemade headcheese loaf* with mustard
    > One soft-boiled egg
    > Two cheese-lard pancakes with butter
    > Tea with lemon (no sugar)
    >
    > LUNCH
    >
    > Two slices of baked blood sausage fried in bacon fat
    > Tea with lemon (no sugar)
    >
    > DINNER
    >
    > Broth with two egg yolks
    > Hash browns
    > One strip of bacon
    >
    > DAILY TOTAL: 254 grams of fat and 2,923 calories
    >
    > *This Optimal daily menu comes with a recipe for home-made headcheese,
    > which requires the following ingredients: half-skinned and de-eyed
    > pig's head with ears chopped into pieces, one bay leaf, a couple of
    > kernels of allspice and salt and pepper to taste.
    >
    > Larding it on
    >
    > Here's what you'll find in the deli cases, coolers and shelves of Calma
    > Optimal Foods:
    >
    > Polish specialties: flaczki (tripe soup), bigos (hunter's stew),
    > borscht, Polish sausages, blintzes, even pierogi and paczki.
    >
    > Organ delights: pork liver pate, brain croquettes, blood sausage,
    > headcheese, brain with vegetable soup and liver and tongue stew.
    >
    > Desserts: Jell-O-whipped cream slices; low-sugar, high-fat ice creams;
    > poppy seed cakes; and low-sugar cheesecake.
    >
    > Dairy products, miscellaneous: heavy whipping cream, jumbo Amish eggs,
    > Amish butter, nut-based breads, collagen soups, tubs of house-rendered
    > lard, lard with bacon and beef tallow.
    >
    > In a nod to the diet's arrival in the States, there's even Optimal
    > pizza, larded up with extra bacon, butter-fried mushrooms and a butter
    > crust.
    >
     
  5. TC

    TC Guest

    This brings up some good points for discussion.

    1) If high-fat/high-calories actually were the root cause of obesity,
    it would not take very long for these people to balloon to huges sizes.
    But it does not happen.

    2) If animal source high-fat foods were the root cause of most disease,
    then these people would be the sickest people around, but that does not
    seem to be the case.

    3) If high-fat/high-calories do not always cause obesity, then what are
    the medical authorities basing their low-fat/high-carb nutritional
    policies on?

    4) If animal source high-fat foods don't always cause disease, then
    what are the medical authorities basing their
    low-fat/low-cholesterol/pill-popping cholesterol and heart disease
    policies on?

    I guess we now have the Polish-American paradox in our very midst now.
    Add it to the list of nutritional paradoxes.

    This is a great quote:

    "I'm sure you've heard their claims that their joint pain is gone and
    diabetes is gone," he says. "And they say it because it's true. You
    can
    apparently get a lot of benefits if you decrease your carbohydrate
    intake, and stop taking in all the white flour and stop taking in all
    the refined foods because you are not stressing your body out all the
    time with all of the insulin spikes and becoming hyperglycemic and
    hypoglycemic."

    Sounds familiar, eh?

    TC

    MrPepper11 wrote:
    > Praise the lard
    > The 'Polish Atkins diet' recommends eating prodigious amounts of

    animal
    > fat. Can this possibly be good for you?
    > By Monica Eng / Chicago Tribune
    >
    > Vinka Peschak starts each day by knocking back a full cup of heavy
    > whipping cream.
    >
    > That's at 8 a.m.
    >
    > "At around 11 o'clock I take three or four egg yolks and make some

    kind
    > of omelet with lard for breakfast," the Portage Park resident

    explains.
    > Peschak, a native of Poland, eats her omelet with a cup of buttery
    > boiled vegetables and a slender piece of almond toast slathered in

    more
    > butter or lard.
    >
    > Dinner is usually a fatty piece of pork or some kind of organ meat

    with
    > lard-cooked french fries and more butter-soaked vegetables.
    >
    > In the middle of the day she might have a cup of coffee, "but only

    with
    > a lot of heavy whipping cream in it."
    >
    > Peschak has been eating like this for more than five years. She is
    > slim, energetic, and says, "I feel wonderful, never tired and never
    > hungry."
    >
    > She is not on Atkins. She is not on South Beach. Peschak, along with

    an
    > estimated 2,000 Polish Chicagoans -- and 2 million folks worldwide --
    > is on the Optimal Diet, a Polish eating plan that requires the
    > consumption of prodigious amounts of animal fat -- preferably lard.
    >
    > The diet was hatched in Poland some 40 years ago by Dr. Jan
    > Kwasniewski, who started developing it while working as a dietician

    for
    > a military sanitarium in Ciechocinek, Poland. There he observed that
    > many of his patients were sick, "not because of any pathogenic

    factors
    > . . . but the result of one underlying cause -- bad nutrition,"
    > according to his English language "Optimal Nutrition" book. After
    > experimenting on his family and himself, Kwasniewski concluded that

    the
    > ideal nutritional combo came from eating three grams of fat for every
    > one gram of protein and half a gram of carbohydrates.
    >
    > After a couple of decades of refining this theory, Kwasniewski
    > published his first book in Poland in 1990. But it wasn't until
    > converts came forward with their stories of weight loss and recovery
    > from disease in the mid-'90s that the diet really took off it its
    > native land and Kwasniewski's books went into wide circulation. Today
    > there are at least two magazines devoted to the Optimal lifestyle and
    > Kwasniewski writes a twice weekly column for the regional Polish
    > newspaper Dziennik Zachodni.
    >
    > It was one of these books that made it into Peschak's hands in late
    > 1998, when she was having lunch with other Polish women at a Chicago
    > factory. "One lady who just came back from vacation in Poland showed

    me
    > this book she got there and it made a lot of sense to me." A few

    weeks
    > later, Peschak started the diet.
    >
    > It wasn't until more than three years later, though, that Chicago

    would
    > become the North American capital for this eating plan. That's when
    > Tomasz Zielinski bought a little storefront on Milwaukee Avenue and
    > opened Calma Optimal Foods. The first and only one of its kind in the
    > nation, it operates as a deli, meeting center and, as of this spring,

    a
    > restaurant for those on the lard-laden plan. Peschak serves as its
    > manager.
    >
    > Sometimes called the Polish Atkins, the Optimal Diet severely

    restricts
    > the intake of carbohydrates and sugars, but differs from Atkins by
    > de-emphasizing protein and beefing up, or more accurately porking up,
    > the fat to a level that would have even made the late Robert Atkins
    > reach for his heart.
    >
    > 250 grams of fat per day
    >
    > On average, the diet recommends a whopping 250 grams of fat per day,
    > about four times what the FDA recommended for the average person to
    > maintain his/her weight and about 10 times the amount of saturated

    fat
    > allowed.
    >
    > So despite its popularity in Poland -- Lech Walesa is reported to

    have
    > lost 44 pounds and cured his diabetes on it recently -- the

    mainstream
    > medical establishment there and here is skeptical.
    >
    > "I am very against diets like this," says Jadwiga Roguska, a

    practicing
    > internist at the Feinberg School of Medicine at Northwestern
    > University. "All high-fat diets are unhealthy in the long term and
    > there is absolutely no benefit to weight reduction of this sort

    because
    > it is threatening to health. . . . Of course, high-fat diets will

    give
    > you the benefits of energy and weight loss, but they are just not

    good
    > for you."
    >
    > Roguska based her comments on a brief overview of its principles, but
    > Chicago physician Mark Sobor has seen it up close and has watched an
    > increasing number of his patients in the Polish community embrace it.
    >
    > "Kwasniewski is pure fat," says Sobor who practices in Jefferson Park
    > and is also a licensed acupuncturist. "Eat fat non-stop. Everything

    is
    > pure fat. The more fat you can take in the better and these people

    are
    > fanatics about it. But the thing is they're all skinny."
    >
    > On a recent Sunday morning at the Optimal deli/center in Portage

    Park,
    > about 30 followers of the Kwasniewski plan gathered for a weekly
    > meeting and shared their stories.
    >
    > There was the ginger-haired firecracker Irena Kozlowicz, 78, of

    Niles,
    > who went on the diet five years ago after Kwasniewski came to speak

    at
    > the Copernicus Center in 1999. At the time she was suffering from
    > chronic eye problems, asthma and pain in her knees.
    >
    > "Now I can walk better than a young person," she chirps. "I can run

    up
    > six floors of stairs and my grandson can't catch me. He's 17 years

    old.
    > I meet young ladies and they are always tired and sweating, but I

    never
    > am. I didn't need to lose weight, but I lost 8 pounds. I am 78, but I
    > feel like I am 50. I thank God for the diet."
    >
    > Then there is Jozef Michael Ostrowski, 71, who says he has been on a
    > variation of the diet his whole life.
    >
    > "Since the occupation of Poland my parents could only afford pork

    meat
    > and liver and blood sausage and lard," Ostrowski says through an
    > interpreter. "It is not like I was following this diet precisely but
    > generally. At that time I didn't know this kind of natural food was
    > good for me. I just knew that I could eat scrambled eggs with a thin
    > piece of bread and lard and I would be full all day. I started eating
    > regular food like McDonald's and I could not handle the pain and so I
    > went back to the diet and have felt better and better every day."
    >
    > Chicago physician Christopher Kubik wasn't at the meeting, but in a
    > phone interview he said that 4 1/2 years ago he was overweight and
    > suffering from fatigue and stones in the bladder. But within a couple
    > of months of embarking on this high-fat journey he saw results.
    >
    > No more problems
    >
    > "I was losing weigh gradually [he lost about 25 pounds in six weeks]
    > but I felt fine. Since then, I didn't have any more problems with
    > stones, my skin complexion improved and I am still feeling a lot of
    > energy," says Kubik, 57, who reports that he breakfasts on fried

    eggs,
    > bacon and string cheese seven days a week. "While I was losing the
    > weight I could feel the ketones as a metallic tasted on the mouth,

    but
    > after I reached my optimal weight, [the ketosis] stopped. Now my

    weight
    > has remained steady at about 185, which is in the upper limit of

    normal
    > for my height."
    >
    > Kubik, who also has degrees in public health and health law, says he
    > does not actively promote the diet, "because it is not considered a
    > standard of care and the medical community still recommends low-fat
    > diets and it is not something I could support if I were sued." But if
    > patients ask, "I tell them that I am on it and have seen positive
    > results."
    >
    > Sobor has also seen a growing number of Kwasniewski converts who

    claim
    > weight loss is only one of the benefits they've reaped.
    >
    > Chester Matuszewski, 46, for instance says that four years ago he was
    > diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis and was told there was no way he
    > could be totally cured.
    >
    > "Every single joint imaginable in my hips, elbows, knees and hands
    > hurt," the Jefferson Park resident recalled. Remembering something he
    > had read in a Polish newspaper about the Optimal diet, he decided to
    > check it out even though it seemed unappetizing.
    >
    > "For years I thought that pork is not good for you and I didn't like
    > the smell, but I forced myself. . . . After two months I started to
    > feel better and I didn't want to attribute it to the diet. But my
    > friends also saw a difference in me and I had so much energy. Today
    > after four years, I have no pain and no swelling and I am totally
    > cured."
    >
    > Sobor hears these stories all the time, but still has his

    reservations.
    >
    > "I'm sure you've heard their claims that their joint pain is gone and
    > diabetes is gone," he says. "And they say it because it's true. You

    can
    > apparently get a lot of benefits if you decrease your carbohydrate
    > intake, and stop taking in all the white flour and stop taking in all
    > the refined foods because you are not stressing your body out all the
    > time with all of the insulin spikes and becoming hyperglycemic and
    > hypoglycemic."
    >
    > "But do I recommend the diet? I don't know," he says. "I don't think
    > Kwasniewski is as good as Atkins or that it is something you should

    go
    > on for a long time. Now the South Beach Diet that is a nice diet with
    > more flexibility. But this Optimal diet is the most radical of the
    > low-carb diets."
    >
    > No position from the AMA
    >
    > In the U.S. the Optimal Diet hasn't yet caught the attention of the
    > medical establishment. The American Medical Association doesn't have

    a
    > position on Atkins, much less Optimal. And Lisa Dorfman, spokeswoman
    > for the American Dietetic Association, had not heard of it either.
    >
    > Still, based on a quick description of the diet, she didn't condemn

    it
    > outright.
    >
    > "I can see how this would be a very attractive program, certainly in
    > the senior citizen community because these are nutrient dense foods

    and
    > seniors don't need to eat a lot of food," says Dorfman, a licensed
    > nutritionist.
    >
    > "But for the general public I see where there could be potential
    > problems. We just know that long-term high-fat diets leave one with a
    > heightened risk of heart disease, stroke and hypertension. This is
    > certainly not for children, teenagers or pregnant women.
    >
    > "But for this group of Polish seniors I think it's adorable,

    especially
    > if it was developed by someone from the old country. As a
    > psychotherapist, I can see where they must feel like you've got to be
    > healthy eating this because there is a psychological connection to
    > eating these foods. It's old country eating."
    >
    > Mmmmm ... headcheese
    >
    > Here's a sample daily menu from the Optimal Diet Web site
    > homodiet.netfirms.com
    >
    > BREAKFAST
    >
    > Two slices of homemade headcheese loaf* with mustard
    > One soft-boiled egg
    > Two cheese-lard pancakes with butter
    > Tea with lemon (no sugar)
    >
    > LUNCH
    >
    > Two slices of baked blood sausage fried in bacon fat
    > Tea with lemon (no sugar)
    >
    > DINNER
    >
    > Broth with two egg yolks
    > Hash browns
    > One strip of bacon
    >
    > DAILY TOTAL: 254 grams of fat and 2,923 calories
    >
    > *This Optimal daily menu comes with a recipe for home-made

    headcheese,
    > which requires the following ingredients: half-skinned and de-eyed
    > pig's head with ears chopped into pieces, one bay leaf, a couple of
    > kernels of allspice and salt and pepper to taste.
    >
    > Larding it on
    >
    > Here's what you'll find in the deli cases, coolers and shelves of

    Calma
    > Optimal Foods:
    >
    > Polish specialties: flaczki (tripe soup), bigos (hunter's stew),
    > borscht, Polish sausages, blintzes, even pierogi and paczki.
    >
    > Organ delights: pork liver pate, brain croquettes, blood sausage,
    > headcheese, brain with vegetable soup and liver and tongue stew.
    >
    > Desserts: Jell-O-whipped cream slices; low-sugar, high-fat ice

    creams;
    > poppy seed cakes; and low-sugar cheesecake.
    >
    > Dairy products, miscellaneous: heavy whipping cream, jumbo Amish

    eggs,
    > Amish butter, nut-based breads, collagen soups, tubs of

    house-rendered
    > lard, lard with bacon and beef tallow.
    >
    > In a nod to the diet's arrival in the States, there's even Optimal
    > pizza, larded up with extra bacon, butter-fried mushrooms and a

    butter
    > crust.
     
  6. In article <[email protected]>,
    "TC" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > This brings up some good points for discussion.


    > 3) If high-fat/high-calories do not always cause obesity, then what are
    > the medical authorities basing their low-fat/high-carb nutritional
    > policies on?


    A complex issue. Here is a small tidbit concerning the Nixon white
    house. Seems it was deemed a good idea to grow corn. Corn syrup stored
    well and tasted sweet and now it is just about everywhere. Thank you
    Earl Butz secretary of agriculture for this sweet disaster aka cheap
    calories. Farmers were able to use marginal lands, distillers were able
    to make cheap whiskey and now type 2 and obesity are common expressions.


    Bill

    --
    Zone 5 S Jersey USA Shade garden in a Japanese manner
    Vision problems? http://www.ocutech.com/
    Tell folks where to get your files FREE at http://www.DropLoad.com
    39.63812° -75.02077°
     
  7. Jim Chinnis

    Jim Chinnis Guest

    "TC" <[email protected]> wrote in part:

    >This brings up some good points for discussion.
    >
    >1) If high-fat/high-calories actually were the root cause of obesity,
    >it would not take very long for these people to balloon to huges sizes.
    >But it does not happen.
    >
    >2) If animal source high-fat foods were the root cause of most disease,
    >then these people would be the sickest people around, but that does not
    >seem to be the case.
    >
    >3) If high-fat/high-calories do not always cause obesity, then what are
    >the medical authorities basing their low-fat/high-carb nutritional
    >policies on?
    >
    >4) If animal source high-fat foods don't always cause disease, then
    >what are the medical authorities basing their
    >low-fat/low-cholesterol/pill-popping cholesterol and heart disease
    >policies on?
    >
    >I guess we now have the Polish-American paradox in our very midst now.
    >Add it to the list of nutritional paradoxes.
    >
    >This is a great quote:
    >
    > "I'm sure you've heard their claims that their joint pain is gone and
    > diabetes is gone," he says. "And they say it because it's true. You
    >can
    > apparently get a lot of benefits if you decrease your carbohydrate
    > intake, and stop taking in all the white flour and stop taking in all
    > the refined foods because you are not stressing your body out all the
    > time with all of the insulin spikes and becoming hyperglycemic and
    > hypoglycemic."
    >
    >Sounds familiar, eh?
    >
    >TC


    I think you are adding in "high-calories." I haven't seen that
    mentioned, though people on the "Polish/Optimal" diet may be
    consuming more calories. I had assumed they were consuming fewer
    if they were losing weight.
    --
    Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
     
  8. zee

    zee Guest

    People who are not eating high fat diets do not necessarily eat white
    flour, boxed, nukable meals. It is complex carbs from many vegetables
    fruits and grains which are the healthy diet, in my opinion. It is not
    the meat, or the high fat consumption, which I think takes us quickly
    into a u shaped curve.

    We were not meant to eat high fat and high meat protein. Look at your
    teeth Terry. Look at your shriveled and unnecessary appendix, at your
    gall bladder and digestive system designed to process bulk and fibre.

    Yes. Stop eating junk. But do not extrapolate from that to substitute
    the calories with meat protein.

    And as I said at the top of the thread: my city has a sizable Polish
    population. Really...!



    Zee
     
  9. TC

    TC Guest

    We've been told for generations that one needs to eat more carbs and
    less fat, specifically in order to restrict calories and lose weight.

    A diet high in fat and low in carbs will be higher in calories. How can
    it not be? Especially with the amonts of fat being consumed on this
    diet. They are talking about 250 grams of fat per day, that is 2250
    calories of fat alone, then add the carbs and the proteins.

    Remember that there has been a few studies that showed clearly that low
    carbers can eat up to about around 300 kcals per day more than low-fat
    dieters and still lose more weight.

    You can't assume that just because someone is losing weight that they
    are eating less calories. That connection is now in serious doubt.
    Calories do matter, but not in the simple, cut-and-dried way that
    nutritionists like to believe. It is a bit more complex than just
    calories-in vs calories-out. Quality of food and calories do matter.

    TC


    Jim Chinnis wrote:
    > "TC" <[email protected]> wrote in part:
    >
    > >This brings up some good points for discussion.
    > >
    > >1) If high-fat/high-calories actually were the root cause of

    obesity,
    > >it would not take very long for these people to balloon to huges

    sizes.
    > >But it does not happen.
    > >
    > >2) If animal source high-fat foods were the root cause of most

    disease,
    > >then these people would be the sickest people around, but that does

    not
    > >seem to be the case.
    > >
    > >3) If high-fat/high-calories do not always cause obesity, then what

    are
    > >the medical authorities basing their low-fat/high-carb nutritional
    > >policies on?
    > >
    > >4) If animal source high-fat foods don't always cause disease, then
    > >what are the medical authorities basing their
    > >low-fat/low-cholesterol/pill-popping cholesterol and heart disease
    > >policies on?
    > >
    > >I guess we now have the Polish-American paradox in our very midst

    now.
    > >Add it to the list of nutritional paradoxes.
    > >
    > >This is a great quote:
    > >
    > > "I'm sure you've heard their claims that their joint pain is gone

    and
    > > diabetes is gone," he says. "And they say it because it's true. You
    > >can
    > > apparently get a lot of benefits if you decrease your carbohydrate
    > > intake, and stop taking in all the white flour and stop taking in

    all
    > > the refined foods because you are not stressing your body out all

    the
    > > time with all of the insulin spikes and becoming hyperglycemic and
    > > hypoglycemic."
    > >
    > >Sounds familiar, eh?
    > >
    > >TC

    >
    > I think you are adding in "high-calories." I haven't seen that
    > mentioned, though people on the "Polish/Optimal" diet may be
    > consuming more calories. I had assumed they were consuming fewer
    > if they were losing weight.
    > --
    > Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
     
  10. TC

    TC Guest

    zee wrote:
    > People who are not eating high fat diets do not necessarily eat white
    > flour, boxed, nukable meals. It is complex carbs from many vegetables
    > fruits and grains which are the healthy diet, in my opinion. It is

    not
    > the meat, or the high fat consumption, which I think takes us

    quickly
    > into a u shaped curve.
    >


    Fats and proteins do not contribute to obesity as does refined carbs.

    > We were not meant to eat high fat and high meat protein. Look at your
    > teeth Terry. Look at your shriveled and unnecessary appendix, at your
    > gall bladder and digestive system designed to process bulk and fibre.
    >


    Actually, I have to completely disagree with you here. And I've looked
    at our teeth and GI systems. We are primarily carnivorous omnivores.
    The GI tract is short like other carnivores in order to quickly pass
    thru meats. Out GI tract did not evolve to handle large amounts of bulk
    and fibre. We have no gizzard and only one relatively small stomach
    unlike birds who eat grains and cows with four stomachs.


    > Yes. Stop eating junk. But do not extrapolate from that to substitute
    > the calories with meat protein.
    >


    Not necessarily only meat proteins, but also copious amounts of meat
    fats from healthy animals.

    > And as I said at the top of the thread: my city has a sizable Polish
    > population. Really...!
    >
    >
    >
    > Zee


    So has my area of the world. But around here they eat a lot of perogies
    (flour and potatoes), cabbage rolls (white rice), sweets and sodas
    (sugars) and they've adopted pasta noodles (flour again, but in larger
    amounts). A lot of obesity and disease in these communities too. My
    ex-girlfriend and her family are a perfect example of what I speak of.
    I saw how they eat as a family when I went out with her, years ago, and
    the last time I saw them, at a funeral of all places, they were all
    very obese and/or very ill. It was a really sad event for me, even
    sadder yet than the funeral, to see them in such poor condition.

    TC
     
  11. Jim Chinnis

    Jim Chinnis Guest

    I'm not anti-lowcarbing. It just seemed to me that the amounts of
    weight loss described over the periods described are more
    consistent with a drop in caloric intake than anything else,
    including effects of ketosis. I've tracked my diet in detail for a
    long time now. I eat fewer calories when I take in fewer carbs.
    When I eat a lot of carbs, especially processed carbs, I am
    hungrier and I eat more.

    There don't seem to be any good data on this (Polish Atkins).

    Jim

    "TC" <[email protected]> wrote in part:

    >
    >We've been told for generations that one needs to eat more carbs and
    >less fat, specifically in order to restrict calories and lose weight.
    >
    >A diet high in fat and low in carbs will be higher in calories. How can
    >it not be? Especially with the amonts of fat being consumed on this
    >diet. They are talking about 250 grams of fat per day, that is 2250
    >calories of fat alone, then add the carbs and the proteins.
    >
    >Remember that there has been a few studies that showed clearly that low
    >carbers can eat up to about around 300 kcals per day more than low-fat
    >dieters and still lose more weight.
    >
    >You can't assume that just because someone is losing weight that they
    >are eating less calories. That connection is now in serious doubt.
    >Calories do matter, but not in the simple, cut-and-dried way that
    >nutritionists like to believe. It is a bit more complex than just
    >calories-in vs calories-out. Quality of food and calories do matter.
    >
    >TC
    >
    >
    >Jim Chinnis wrote:
    >> "TC" <[email protected]> wrote in part:
    >>
    >> >This brings up some good points for discussion.
    >> >
    >> >1) If high-fat/high-calories actually were the root cause of

    >obesity,
    >> >it would not take very long for these people to balloon to huges

    >sizes.
    >> >But it does not happen.
    >> >
    >> >2) If animal source high-fat foods were the root cause of most

    >disease,
    >> >then these people would be the sickest people around, but that does

    >not
    >> >seem to be the case.
    >> >
    >> >3) If high-fat/high-calories do not always cause obesity, then what

    >are
    >> >the medical authorities basing their low-fat/high-carb nutritional
    >> >policies on?
    >> >
    >> >4) If animal source high-fat foods don't always cause disease, then
    >> >what are the medical authorities basing their
    >> >low-fat/low-cholesterol/pill-popping cholesterol and heart disease
    >> >policies on?
    >> >
    >> >I guess we now have the Polish-American paradox in our very midst

    >now.
    >> >Add it to the list of nutritional paradoxes.
    >> >
    >> >This is a great quote:
    >> >
    >> > "I'm sure you've heard their claims that their joint pain is gone

    >and
    >> > diabetes is gone," he says. "And they say it because it's true. You
    >> >can
    >> > apparently get a lot of benefits if you decrease your carbohydrate
    >> > intake, and stop taking in all the white flour and stop taking in

    >all
    >> > the refined foods because you are not stressing your body out all

    >the
    >> > time with all of the insulin spikes and becoming hyperglycemic and
    >> > hypoglycemic."
    >> >
    >> >Sounds familiar, eh?
    >> >
    >> >TC

    >>
    >> I think you are adding in "high-calories." I haven't seen that
    >> mentioned, though people on the "Polish/Optimal" diet may be
    >> consuming more calories. I had assumed they were consuming fewer
    >> if they were losing weight.
    >> --
    >> Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA


    --
    Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
     
  12. Jim Chinnis wrote:
    >
    > I'm not anti-lowcarbing. It just seemed to me that the amounts of
    > weight loss described over the periods described are more
    > consistent with a drop in caloric intake than anything else,
    > including effects of ketosis. I've tracked my diet in detail for a
    > long time now. I eat fewer calories when I take in fewer carbs.
    > When I eat a lot of carbs, especially processed carbs, I am
    > hungrier and I eat more.


    Your observation underscores the need for the 2PD-OMER Approach.

    Those who use the 2PD-OMER Approach are empowered to avoid eating more
    and befriend hunger secure in the knowledge that they are eating the
    "right" amount.


    At His service,

    Andrew

    --
    Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    Board-Certified Cardiologist

    **
    Suggested Reading:
    (1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
    (2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?O2F325D1A
    (3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
    (4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
    (5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
    (6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
    (7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
     
  13. TC wrote:
    >
    > We've been told for generations that one needs to eat more carbs and
    > less fat, specifically in order to restrict calories and lose weight.
    >
    > A diet high in fat and low in carbs will be higher in calories. How can
    > it not be?


    By being less food overall.

    At His service,

    Andrew

    --
    Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    Board-Certified Cardiologist

    **
    Suggested Reading:
    (1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
    (2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?O2F325D1A
    (3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
    (4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
    (5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
    (6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
    (7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
     
  14. zee wrote:
    >
    > People who are not eating high fat diets do not necessarily eat white
    > flour, boxed, nukable meals. It is complex carbs from many vegetables
    > fruits and grains which are the healthy diet, in my opinion. It is not
    > the meat, or the high fat consumption, which I think takes us quickly
    > into a u shaped curve.


    Its the amount.

    > We were not meant to eat high fat and high meat protein.


    We were not meant to eat that much. If Terry Schiavo were given water,
    it could very well be several weeks before she would die from
    starvation.

    > Look at your
    > teeth Terry. Look at your shriveled and unnecessary appendix, at your
    > gall bladder and digestive system designed to process bulk and fibre.


    Actually, the front canines and the hydrochloric acid in the stomach
    (and the absence of multiple cud processing stomachs) would suggest that
    we are omnivorous rather than strictly vegan and carnivorous.

    > Yes. Stop eating junk.


    In truth, it would be far wiser to reduce the amount by using the
    2PD-OMER Approach.


    At His service,

    Andrew

    --
    Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    Board-Certified Cardiologist

    **
    Suggested Reading:
    (1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
    (2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?O2F325D1A
    (3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
    (4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
    (5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
    (6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
    (7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
     
  15. TC wrote:
    >
    > This brings up some good points for discussion.
    >
    > 1) If high-fat/high-calories actually were the root cause of obesity,
    > it would not take very long for these people to balloon to huges sizes.
    > But it does not happen.


    The root cause of obesity is overeating. There are high calories with
    overeating although the percentage fat will vary.


    > 2) If animal source high-fat foods were the root cause of most disease,
    > then these people would be the sickest people around, but that does not
    > seem to be the case.


    The root contributor to many chronic illnesses is adiposity.


    > 3) If high-fat/high-calories do not always cause obesity, then what are
    > the medical authorities basing their low-fat/high-carb nutritional
    > policies on?


    In truth a high-fat diet is not the same as a high-calorie diet. The
    latter can occur with large quantities of carbohydrates and zero fat.


    > 4) If animal source high-fat foods don't always cause disease, then
    > what are the medical authorities basing their
    > low-fat/low-cholesterol/pill-popping cholesterol and heart disease
    > policies on?


    On the effects of dietary fat on elevating serum cholesterol.

    > I guess we now have the Polish-American paradox in our very midst now.
    > Add it to the list of nutritional paradoxes.
    >
    > This is a great quote:
    >
    > "I'm sure you've heard their claims that their joint pain is gone and
    > diabetes is gone," he says. "And they say it because it's true. You
    > can
    > apparently get a lot of benefits if you decrease your carbohydrate
    > intake, and stop taking in all the white flour and stop taking in all
    > the refined foods because you are not stressing your body out all the
    > time with all of the insulin spikes and becoming hyperglycemic and
    > hypoglycemic."
    >
    > Sounds familiar, eh?
    >
    > TC


    It is wiser to lose weight by eating less per the 2PD-OMER Approach.

    At His service,

    Andrew

    --
    Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    Board-Certified Cardiologist

    **
    Suggested Reading:
    (1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
    (2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?O2F325D1A
    (3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
    (4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
    (5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
    (6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
    (7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
     
  16. TC

    TC Guest

    I don't recall anyone asking for a board certified quack's point of
    view, but this is a free country I guess. Just be aware that your 2 PD
    diet is the silliest diet proposed in this NG and most people here find
    your board certified stupidity quite comical.

    TC


    Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
    > TC wrote:
    > >
    > > We've been told for generations that one needs to eat more carbs

    and
    > > less fat, specifically in order to restrict calories and lose

    weight.
    > >
    > > A diet high in fat and low in carbs will be higher in calories. How

    can
    > > it not be?

    >
    > By being less food overall.
    >
    > At His service,
    >
    > Andrew
    >
    > --
    > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    > Board-Certified Cardiologist
    >
    > **
    > Suggested Reading:
    > (1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
    > (2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?O2F325D1A
    > (3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
    > (4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
    > (5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
    > (6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
    > (7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
     
  17. So far, you seem to be the lone contrarian here. Guess that is why you
    are bristling. It betrays the deep-seated fear in you heart. Without
    Lord Christ, there can only be fear.

    You will be in my prayers, dear neighbor whom I love in Jesus' holy
    name.

    At His service,

    Andrew

    --
    Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    Board-Certified Cardiologist

    **
    Suggested Reading:
    (1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
    (2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?O2F325D1A
    (3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
    (4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
    (5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
    (6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
    (7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129


    TC wrote:
    >
    > I don't recall anyone asking for a board certified quack's point of
    > view, but this is a free country I guess. Just be aware that your 2 PD
    > diet is the silliest diet proposed in this NG and most people here find
    > your board certified stupidity quite comical.
    >
    > TC
    >
    > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
    > > TC wrote:
    > > >
    > > > We've been told for generations that one needs to eat more carbs

    > and
    > > > less fat, specifically in order to restrict calories and lose

    > weight.
    > > >
    > > > A diet high in fat and low in carbs will be higher in calories. How

    > can
    > > > it not be?

    > >
    > > By being less food overall.
    > >
    > > At His service,
    > >
    > > Andrew
    > >
    > > --
    > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    > > Board-Certified Cardiologist
    > >
    > > **
    > > Suggested Reading:
    > > (1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
    > > (2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?O2F325D1A
    > > (3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
    > > (4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
    > > (5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
    > > (6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
    > > (7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
     
  18. TC

    TC Guest

    And your religious ramblings are a real laugh too. Although that drivel
    does get kinda pathetic after a while. Comes a time when you have to
    quit the silly Jesus slogans and actually live a christian life. And
    peddling a ridiculous 2 lb diet isn't helping anyone and any christian
    way. The more you repeat religious stuff the less christian you appear.

    TC

    Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
    > So far, you seem to be the lone contrarian here. Guess that is why

    you
    > are bristling. It betrays the deep-seated fear in you heart.

    Without
    > Lord Christ, there can only be fear.
    >
    > You will be in my prayers, dear neighbor whom I love in Jesus' holy
    > name.
    >
    > At His service,
    >
    > Andrew
    >
    > --
    > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    > Board-Certified Cardiologist
    >
    > **
    > Suggested Reading:
    > (1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
    > (2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?O2F325D1A
    > (3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
    > (4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
    > (5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
    > (6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
    > (7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
    >
    >
    > TC wrote:
    > >
    > > I don't recall anyone asking for a board certified quack's point of
    > > view, but this is a free country I guess. Just be aware that your 2

    PD
    > > diet is the silliest diet proposed in this NG and most people here

    find
    > > your board certified stupidity quite comical.
    > >
    > > TC
    > >
    > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
    > > > TC wrote:
    > > > >
    > > > > We've been told for generations that one needs to eat more

    carbs
    > > and
    > > > > less fat, specifically in order to restrict calories and lose

    > > weight.
    > > > >
    > > > > A diet high in fat and low in carbs will be higher in calories.

    How
    > > can
    > > > > it not be?
    > > >
    > > > By being less food overall.
    > > >
    > > > At His service,
    > > >
    > > > Andrew
    > > >
    > > > --
    > > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    > > > Board-Certified Cardiologist
    > > >
    > > > **
    > > > Suggested Reading:
    > > > (1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
    > > > (2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?O2F325D1A
    > > > (3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
    > > > (4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
    > > > (5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
    > > > (6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
    > > > (7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
     
  19. Written laughter on Usenet is silent despair.

    Truth is simple.

    At His service,

    Andrew

    --
    Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    Board-Certified Cardiologist

    **
    Suggested Reading:
    (1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
    (2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?O2F325D1A
    (3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
    (4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
    (5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
    (6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
    (7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129

    TC wrote:
    >
    > And your religious ramblings are a real laugh too. Although that drivel
    > does get kinda pathetic after a while. Comes a time when you have to
    > quit the silly Jesus slogans and actually live a christian life. And
    > peddling a ridiculous 2 lb diet isn't helping anyone and any christian
    > way. The more you repeat religious stuff the less christian you appear.
    >
    > TC
    >
    > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
    > > So far, you seem to be the lone contrarian here. Guess that is why

    > you
    > > are bristling. It betrays the deep-seated fear in you heart.

    > Without
    > > Lord Christ, there can only be fear.
    > >
    > > You will be in my prayers, dear neighbor whom I love in Jesus' holy
    > > name.
    > >
    > > At His service,
    > >
    > > Andrew
    > >
    > > --
    > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    > > Board-Certified Cardiologist
    > >
    > > **
    > > Suggested Reading:
    > > (1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
    > > (2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?O2F325D1A
    > > (3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
    > > (4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
    > > (5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
    > > (6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
    > > (7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
    > >
    > >
    > > TC wrote:
    > > >
    > > > I don't recall anyone asking for a board certified quack's point of
    > > > view, but this is a free country I guess. Just be aware that your 2

    > PD
    > > > diet is the silliest diet proposed in this NG and most people here

    > find
    > > > your board certified stupidity quite comical.
    > > >
    > > > TC
    > > >
    > > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
    > > > > TC wrote:
    > > > > >
    > > > > > We've been told for generations that one needs to eat more

    > carbs
    > > > and
    > > > > > less fat, specifically in order to restrict calories and lose
    > > > weight.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > A diet high in fat and low in carbs will be higher in calories.

    > How
    > > > can
    > > > > > it not be?
    > > > >
    > > > > By being less food overall.
    > > > >
    > > > > At His service,
    > > > >
    > > > > Andrew
    > > > >
    > > > > --
    > > > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    > > > > Board-Certified Cardiologist
    > > > >
    > > > > **
    > > > > Suggested Reading:
    > > > > (1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
    > > > > (2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?O2F325D1A
    > > > > (3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
    > > > > (4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
    > > > > (5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
    > > > > (6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
    > > > > (7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
     
  20. TC

    TC Guest

    Written laughter is a clear expression of ones beliefs.

    Written religious slogans are a cover-up to a lack of substance.

    You are simple.

    TC

    Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
    > Written laughter on Usenet is silent despair.
    >
    > Truth is simple.
    >
    > At His service,
    >
    > Andrew
    >
     
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