Patrick Turner said:Stuart Lamble wrote:
>
> On 2007-08-13, Patrick Turner <[email protected]> wrote:
> > EuanB wrote:
> >>
> >> Patrick Turner Wrote:
> >> > I ride close to the gutter even when I'm in a bike lane.
> >> > It also leaves room for faster cysclists to pass without a swing out
> >> > into the car lane, something that really infuriates drivers no end.
> >>
> >> Missed this bit. You're riding in the most dangerous place of the
> >> road.
> >
> > Your'e plain wrong.
>
> No he isn't, you're just misunderstanding him.
>
> The *gutter* is the most dangerous part, because it's not consistent.
> You've got gravel, broken glass, and other assorted debris; it's liable
> to be broken, possibly (badly) patched, and you could find yourself
> running over the top of drains as well - always a fun time, especially
> when the bars run parallel to your direction of travel, and are spaced
> just that little bit bigger than your wheel's tyre ...
GeeZuss! Do you think I ride everywhere with my eyes closed.
Staying alive on a bike means you have to watch what your wheels are
just about to go over
ALL THE TIME. Riders in fantasyland don't watch out for glass and rocks
and all manner of ****
mototvehicles, and they come to grief.
Drains here are all constructed not to trap cyclists wheels.
By keeping left I did NOT mean riding right in the gutter; my feet would
hit the curb
if I did, so no need to be ridiculous about it.
I just try to KEEP LEFT to let others have a fair go.
And keep as far away from cars, and trucks, and what might fall off
them,
or away from when they may indeed swerve into the bike lane while I'm
there.
Bad luck happens just as often as **** happens, OK.
rIinab Suuss
>
> [...]
>
> >> The safest place to ride is where the nearside wheels of normal traffic
> >> run. Traffic has to move to get past you so traffic moves by a decent
> >> amount. All of a sudden you're no longer getting creamed.
> >
> > I disagree entirely, and you are advising cyclists
> > to lose their lives sooner rather than later.
>
> I have cycled in the gutter. I have cycled in the area Euan is
> advocating. My personal experience is that the latter is *far* safer;
Sure, now your'e being stubborn or you are denying your own true
feelings
about the impending danger of being hit.
Maybe you have a secret death wish.
Keep to the gutter side of the lane, and you'll definately last longer.
> I
> have not felt "at risk" from passing cars in a long time since I moved
> further out. If I'm in the gutter, I get passed with very little room to
> spare;
What utter ********!
if I'm further out, the margin between me and cars is much
> greater.
More buulshit!
> I ascribe this to cars trying not to move into the next lane
> over if they think they can squeeze past; if I make it so they have no
> choice, they will give me more room as a matter of course.
But they don't move further out for me or anyone else I've seen.
They'll often come deliberately close to frighten you back down to the
left.
>
> Euan's comments weren't just about the situation where a bike lane
> exists; he's talking about the general case, and habits learnt to
> protect yourself when you don't have a bike lane are not easily
> forgotten when the bike lane arrives - and nor should they be!
Where there is no bike lane it also pays to keep as left as possible.
Its utter baloney to say that riding high is any sort of protection
because it forces
motoorists to give way.
They get nervous, are forced to slow right down, can panic, and get
angry,
and damn well might run you right over.
So by riding high and thinking you own the road, you are inviting
catastrophe.
I hate riding two abreast anywhere unless I am in a bunch ride, and then
because of
numbers, I do own the road.
When I trained for racing I often went out with just one other friend on
a ride
on quiet country roads, and there riding two abreast isn't a menace.
But it sure is in town!
Here I often come across 2 riders going slow yabbering away about
whatever,
and hogging the road or the path. I will defend their rights, but
common sense tells me its stupidity to provoke motorists just because
you have the right
to do so. Sooner or later, you WILL be hit.
Everyone I knew in the racing club kept to the left as much as sensibly
possible,
everywhere they went, and in races on public roads.
Despite all precautions taken, and while I was a memeber of 2 clubs over
6 years
and 100,000 kms of ridden distance, I witnessed a constant
stream of guys recovering after hospitalisation due to bike accidents
often involving cars.
Several people got killed.
If everyone who isn't riding a bike got out on the roads, motor traffic
would be halved, but hospital accident admissions would rise 500%.
So motorists sure are a menace on the roads.
Patrick Turner.
>
> --
> My Usenet From: address now expires after two weeks. If you email me, and
> the mail bounces, try changing the bit before the "@" to "usenet".
I'll see your call of ********/Buulshit & raise it.
As StuartL & Euan have stated, take part of the left lane & cars give you more room. It may sound counter intuitive but my experience backs it up. There is a certain section of Plenty Rd (Northern suburbs, Melbourne) that bears this out perfectly.
Every time I ride out to Kinglake this happens. If I don't ride in the left wheel track, roughly 1/3 out into the left lane, I get cars, trucks etc squeezing past me by inches. It feels like the wrong thing to do but once in the lane there is less stress as you get given more space.