POLL: Condi Rice is ...

[limerickman]

The trouble is if you compare the history of Europe and the U.S. over the last few centuries with the Islamic world, then the latter comes off a great deal worse. The trouble with the Islamic World is it has been stuck in a time warp for centuries and although Bin Laden and co may denounce the West, they also rely on the West for the most basic technologies.
What I mean is that if global progress had kept track with the Islamic World there would have been no lunar landings, no aviation, no telecommunications, possibly no electricity or even motor cars.
The failures of western socieities are numerous and make grim reading just as gladiatorial games and hedonism in the Greco/Roman world might make you shudder somewhat. But I do agree with the Italian politician who stated the Islamic World has failed to progress in the same way western civilization managed to do (in the long run).
There's a very bad side of the U.S. and Europe that leaves a lot to be desired but also a lot of positive developments, whereas Middle Eastern societies simply haven't budged and have failed to capitalise on their vast resources. I don't know why Persia and Mesopotania fell so much from their former glory as global superpowers but suspect religion lies at the heart of it all.

Well let's look at "progress".
For me, the great thinkers and innovators have come from Europe, like Newton, DeVinci etc.
The enlightenment was fuelled by the French.
The Renaissance was fuelled by the Italians.
The Industrial Revolution was fuelled by the British.
These episodes have been the great leap forward.

I agree that the Islamic world appears to have stopped.
But look at how advanced the Islamic world was at one point - they had a better understanding of medicine, they devised Algebra, they devised the written language in Mesopotamia, their engineering was years ahead of Europe up to 16th century (see the water systems of Southern Spain for example).

The Nazi's developed the technology of space travel - they're rocket technology was utilised by the Merkins to fuel the US space program

 

[Trekker2017]

Indeed.
What a load of old bollox.

The people expelled from England to the USA in the 1600, were just that - expelled.
To rewrite history as you attempt above, is very interesting but totally and utterly wrong.

As regards your view about "things" - I suggest that you ought to understand that capital and the movement of capital (rightly or wrongly) is what underpins life here in the West.

When Mr.BinLaden and crew targetted the WTC, they not only brought down the very symbol of capital (money, material wealth), they rightly screwed the US economy, in an economic sense too.

I'm not the one re-writing history, you are. Or rather, you've been taught wrong. I can only suggest you go back to the source documents to re-discover the truth. I suggest you go to your library or university to their computer section and log on to JSTOR down load the over 3000 documents on American Exceptionalism alone. These are essays and papers presented at various acedemic funcitions and published in the worlds leading acedemic magazines. If you want the Marxist point of view, I can also direct you to essays written for the Marxist publications.

The question here is not capital in the usual sense of the word, but rather ideology as a capital. Ideology is not a respector of things; things are merely the means to the end and are expendable (pun intended). The "trade deficit" is merely an outdated measure. Look at the interest rates that Americans are paying for the use of money. Remember, the paper dollar has no intrinisic value any more. It is only worth the paper it's printed on. It's true value comes from what we (Americans as a collective) agree that it can be traded for. I just traded $277 of my dollars for 150 gallons of oil to keep my house heated for the next couple of weeks. Two years ago, that same $277 would have bought me 300 gallons of oil. Am I worried about it? No. If I increase my business, I will cover my expenses. Yet last year, I lost business, but made more money.

As to Mr. BinLaden. He screwed nobody except the people of Afganistan and Iraq and other third world nations who do not export to the USA. He brought down two buildings killed a bunch of people and by doing so united a faction within a nation by giving meaning to President Bush's agenda.

As a mortgage loan officer/mortgage broker I can definitely tell you that the US economy is hardly screwed. There are more million dollar homes moving now than ever before. Granted the middle class is screwed, but then the economy is not a repsector of individuals. Since the 1950s the middle class has been slowly absorbed by the blue collar class making a larger division between the monied class and those who service them. The lack of animosity between these two classes is perhaps the hardest thing for Europeans to understand. It is part of American Exceptionalism and there are hundreds of articles and essays about this on JSTOR from both acedemia and the Marxist presses. The American economy is in the process of change. We do not manufacture any more the way we once did. We outsource it. We are turinging into a services economy. Those who have not service those who have and receive payment for their labors. The work as an energy unit for which people are paid is still there... the method of that work has changed. Those who have realized that have moved on. Those who have not are doomed to be swept up by our welfare programs. Despite that, there are more way to succeed in this country than there are to fail.

 

[davidmc]

Indeed.
What a load of old bollox.

The people expelled from England to the USA in the 1600, were just that - expelled.
To rewrite history as you attempt above, is very interesting but totally and utterly wrong.

As regards your view about "things" - I suggest that you ought to understand that capital and the movement of capital (rightly or wrongly) is what underpins life here in the West.

When Mr.BinLaden and crew targetted the WTC, they not only brought down the very symbol of capital (money, material wealth), they rightly screwed the US economy, in an economic sense too.

I agree, they were expelled/left to go to denmark first, then their poeple left for america because they were afraid their childrens indoctrination would be diluted by the goings on up there. Free sex, free drinking, ect...

 

[Brian Cotgrove]

Spit and polish, well at least I've got you spitting, and your wife has got you polishing. Now mind the blood pressure.
No, I wasn't in the forces on conscription, I was too young and missed out on this life shattering experience.
Just be careful what you say about the Glorious German Uniforms, by the way I agree with you, otherwise you will in the firing line of a certain section of this board. You will become a neo nazi, anti semitic, anti Israeli target.
Who are you to comment on other cultures as to what is right or wrong, when these are the rules and laws they have ALWAYS lived by.
So America is up the creek without a paddle in world terms. Sit back and laugh.
How can you categorically state that Anglo-saxons/Celts were civilised, and relate them to modern Western Europe. The Romans brought law, then 1000years later the Normans brought the present day aspect to it.
So London was a civilised place 140 years ago? I think not, the River Thames was an open sewer where everything went into, including bodies. The city was overrun by rats, and cholera epedemics were rife. Hung, drawn and quartered, very civilised, and some of the torture methods beggared belief. Public floggings on a daily basis, transported to Oz for pinching a bit of bread.
Come of it Brian. Why should Christians poke their nose in Islamic law, they don't go poking their noses in our ethics.
Hope you had a good day at the Track.

G'day fred, mate I wholeheartedly concur with what you say, say with regards the Islamic people's way of life it has never been a problemm with me and the only reason why America is in the Middle east is because of the OIL.

If they (America) were so concerned about the lack of Democracy, the rule of Tyrany, and believe so strongly in democracy and freeing the downtrodden then why are they not sorting out the SUDAN. Very simple there's no Oil to worry about. As "davidmc" has said, tell a lie to the punters long enough and soon everybody begins to believe it as truth, this is the situation in America at present and some of my friends there say, what can we do, we voted for the other's, (Democrats).

The comment about the laws of the Middle East, I just pointed out that it is the norm there, I too have friends here in OZ, who came to our country from that region region of the world and have been told of then problems that are inherent there. My comment neither agree's nor disagree's with how they conduct their way of life each to his/her own, I'm thankful I was born where I was and the fact also that I now live here, it's such a bloody fantastic place?

I said nothing about London being a civilised place, it was as you posted a rat infested place overun by disease amd poverty. England/the United Kingdom, was and has been for many years/century's a barbaric, strife torn country/land.

When one looks at the composition of the nation of peole who make up the population of the British Isles, it is a dogs breakfast of a mixture, even you Fred are not who you think you are, just a mere shadow of your former self, a look alike of the original person, caused over the years with cell deterioration and renewal.

Never mind we will not hold that against you, despite your nasty tendency's and your lack of wit, I'm looking forward to the day in the not too distant future when we stand toe to toe........be worried Fred...very worried?

The public flogging should be reintroduced quick smart, it would instantly curb the vandalism, mugging's and bashing's the lawlessness that proliferates around the socalled civilised Western World.

I'm in favour of Corporal Punishment, the rule of the big stick because all the other **** doesn't work, Dr.Spock has admitted he's screwed up at least two generations, where did he get his idea's....?

The track today was a good session, Nic (41years) did a flying 200metre in 11.52second this morning, our States titles are only just a week away, he's looking good. So are a lot of the very young kids, not that I have much to do with them, they come under the umberella of the States Sporting Academy?

Apart from that Fred, every thing in my garden is very rosey, the Blood Pressuure is good also, I stopped taking those pills many moons ago.

Meditation, Bush Flower remedy's, alternative forms of treatment work like a charm. My doctor can't believe how I've reversed the 150/95 back to a mere 130/75 points with Meditation and Alternative Therapy.

I'm working on getting back to a reasonable weight just so I can take the State Title in October for OLD CODGER'S.

Gooday Les, hope the training is going well, climbing sounds top shelf too, keep up the good work, mate?

KTWIM,ADLB,UITSWYDOTLC?TBC

 

[limerickman]

I'm not the one re-writing history, you are. Or rather, you've been taught wrong. I can only suggest you go back to the source documents to re-discover the truth. I suggest you go to your library or university to their computer section and log on to JSTOR down load the over 3000 documents on American Exceptionalism alone. These are essays and papers presented at various acedemic funcitions and published in the worlds leading acedemic magazines.

So all that stuff about Oliver Cromwell etc was a myth ?

The question here is not capital in the usual sense of the word, but rather ideology as a capital. Ideology is not a respector of things; things are merely the means to the end and are expendable (pun intended). The "trade deficit" is merely an outdated measure. Look at the interest rates that Americans are paying for the use of money. Remember, the paper dollar has no intrinisic value any more. It is only worth the paper it's printed on. It's true value comes from what we (Americans as a collective) agree that it can be traded for. I just traded $277 of my dollars for 150 gallons of oil to keep my house heated for the next couple of weeks. Two years ago, that same $277 would have bought me 300 gallons of oil. Am I worried about it? No. If I increase my business, I will cover my expenses. Yet last year, I lost business, but made more money.

As to Mr. BinLaden. He screwed nobody except the people of Afganistan and Iraq and other third world nations who do not export to the USA. He brought down two buildings killed a bunch of people and by doing so united a faction within a nation by giving meaning to President Bush's agenda.

As a mortgage loan officer/mortgage broker I can definitely tell you that the US economy is hardly screwed. There are more million dollar homes moving now than ever before. Granted the middle class is screwed, but then the economy is not a repsector of individuals. Since the 1950s the middle class has been slowly absorbed by the blue collar class making a larger division between the monied class and those who service them. The lack of animosity between these two classes is perhaps the hardest thing for Europeans to understand. It is part of American Exceptionalism and there are hundreds of articles and essays about this on JSTOR from both acedemia and the Marxist presses. The American economy is in the process of change. We do not manufacture any more the way we once did. We outsource it. We are turinging into a services economy. Those who have not service those who have and receive payment for their labors. The work as an energy unit for which people are paid is still there... the method of that work has changed. Those who have realized that have moved on. Those who have not are doomed to be swept up by our welfare programs. Despite that, there are more way to succeed in this country than there are to fail.

You are free to choose whether or not the trade deficit is an outmoded measure.
However, the reality is that the worlds financial markets and commentators use these measures to assess the prospects of the USA.

Ideology is a different matter however.
The present US goverment has attempted to redefine "democracy".
It is attempting to impose it's version of democracy outside US sovereign territory.
If one had a clear understanding of the concept of democracy, one would know that it is totally and utterly contradictory to attempt to impose democracy on people.
Democracy cannot be imposed.

This is the problem - and I mean this is the kindest possible way - with a lot of Americans.
They neither have the lingusitic skills or the understanding - to be able to contradict US goverment rhethoric.
Instead, people in the US appear to accept terms like "impose democracy"
without thinking or understanding democracy and the principles that underpin
that concept.

Remember, the paper dollar has no intrinisic value any more. It is only worth the paper it's printed on. It's true value comes from what we (Americans as a collective) agree that it can be traded for. I just traded $277 of my dollars for 150 gallons of oil to keep my house heated for the next couple of weeks. Two years ago, that same $277 would have bought me 300 gallons of oil. Am I worried about it? No. If I increase my business, I will cover my expenses. Yet last year, I lost business, but made more money.

As to Mr. BinLaden. He screwed nobody except the people of Afganistan and Iraq and other third world nations who do not export to the USA. He brought down two buildings killed a bunch of people and by doing so united a faction within a nation by giving meaning to President Bush's agenda.

You need to get an understanding of economics.
The dollar in your pocket may not have intrinsic value in itself (it's made of paper).
However, the value attributed to that piece of paper is ascertained by the units of wealth in your nation (land, goods/services).
That is the concept.
It used to be the case that every unit of currency was supposed to equate to gold bullion.
Therefore if one was to present a currency note to a given country's central bank for redemption - the central bank was to give the bearer a pice of gold equivalent to the value of the currecny note.
That was the concept of currency valuation ( a good read to how currencies were developed in "A Very British Deceit" by Malcolm Ballen : it is about the South Sea Bubble but it also is a treatise about how John Law first developed the use of currency in France and Holland in the early 1700's).
Bretton Woods in 1945 was the death knell for gold-based currency valuations.

The fact that your economy is service based is true.
However, the appetite for manufactured goods/services is unabated within the US economy.
That is why you import far more than you export.
Services essentially come from within an economy.
However, your economy still needs cars etc.
Manufactured products make up most of the US total imports.
Seems strange that given the obvious demand for foreign product, that US has decided that it cannot manufacture it's own product.

 

[Trekker2017]

You are free to choose whether or not the trade deficit is an outmoded measure.
However, the reality is that the worlds financial markets and commentators use these measures to assess the prospects of the USA.

Ideology is a different matter however.
The present US goverment has attempted to redefine "democracy".
It is attempting to impose it's version of democracy outside US sovereign territory.
If one had a clear understanding of the concept of democracy, one would know that it is totally and utterly contradictory to attempt to impose democracy on people.
Democracy cannot be imposed.

This is the problem - and I mean this is the kindest possible way - with a lot of Americans.
They neither have the lingusitic skills or the understanding - to be able to contradict US goverment rhethoric.
Instead, people in the US appear to accept terms like "impose democracy"
without thinking or understanding democracy and the principles that underpin
that concept.

You're right... this is a question of European/American semantics. When Europeans think of democracy and republicanism their historical references naturally tend to what happened throughout European history. European democracy is something totally different than American democracy.

American democracy has always been an "imposed" democracy. In 1776 those favoring independence were in the minority. Independence was imposed. In much the same way, the Federalists "imposed" the consititution on a people who were content with confederation. Later, Lincoln "imposed" union on an entire section of the country that did not want it. The present US government is not attempting to "redefine" democracy. It merely has found itself strong enough to impose its historical/original/exceptional definition of democracy on another "marginalized" group of people regardless of whether that group wants it or not. In the broad picture of American history, this is not something new... this is the norm.

 

[davidmc]

but it also is a treatise about how John Law first developed the use of currency in France and Holland in the early 1700's).
Bretton Woods in 1945 was the death knell for gold-based currency valuations.

The fact that your economy is service based is true.
However, the appetite for manufactured goods/services is unabated within the US economy.
That is why you import far more than you export.
Services essentially come from within an economy.
However, your economy still needs cars etc.
Manufactured products make up most of the US total imports.
Seems strange that given the obvious demand for foreign product, that US has decided that it cannot manufacture it's own product.

Just an historical note, weren't the Chinese the first to use "paper" currency. Westerners, rightly, distrusted it because it had no intrinsic worth. The U.S. backed their paper up w/ bullion until 1933 although we still utilize Fort Knox which is an Army Base. Wasn't there a James Bond movie wherein the villain rob's Fort Knox? About the manufacturing base, I am troubled the way our country lets entire industry's wither on the vine by letting China "dump" (little or no profit, solely for market share) steel onto the U.S. market. There are certain commodities which need to be produced "in" one's country for national security concerns. For instance, what if the U.S. were to get into a war w/ china. Undoubtedly they would not supply us w/ anymore steel. See where I'm going w/ this I beleive my country is utilizing the dictum- "knowledge is power". This way we can make money but w/o breaking a sweat, so to speak. Software, engineering (aerospace,military), copyright's, ect...

 

[limerickman]

You're right... this is a question of European/American semantics. When Europeans think of democracy and republicanism their historical references naturally tend to what happened throughout European history. European democracy is something totally different than American democracy.

American democracy has always been an "imposed" democracy. In 1776 those favoring independence were in the minority. Independence was imposed. In much the same way, the Federalists "imposed" the consititution on a people who were content with confederation. Later, Lincoln "imposed" union on an entire section of the country that did not want it. The present US government is not attempting to "redefine" democracy. It merely has found itself strong enough to impose its historical/original/exceptional definition of democracy on another "marginalized" group of people regardless of whether that group wants it or not. In the broad picture of American history, this is not something new... this is the norm.

Well, I have no problem if Americans support this notion of "imposing democracy" within their own sovereign territory.
The difficulty I have is that the imperialist Bush goverment is seeking to impose democracy outside it's sovereign territory.
And it seeks to impose democracy in areas and locations where democracy,
has no support.

Unlike a lot of Americans here, you appear to be able to discuss these issues.

 

[FredC]

True. Brian, you went too far in your generalizations this time. Most of your post's appear to be somewhat level-headed. Try to stick to your fashion-sense when it comes to giving advice

I don't believe a word of his, I've weighed him up.
Humanitarian? my ****.
You should read what he wrote about the 'Mexican pooftas' a general term of his about people who moved to live in his neck of the woods (white enclave I suppose). He was even castigated by all the Ozzies on the board. Heil Brian, goosestep practice today down at the track.
I've done with him now. He won't backtrack on this one like he's done on some of his previous posts.

 

[davidmc]

Well, I have no problem if Americans support this notion of "imposing democracy" within their own sovereign territory.
The difficulty I have is that the imperialist Bush goverment is seeking to impose democracy outside it's sovereign territory.
And it seeks to impose democracy in areas and locations where democracy,
has no support.

Unlike a lot of Americans here, you appear to be able to discuss these issues.

I think trekker2017 would be more "above-board" if he used the term "imposing a society amenable to capitalistic enterprise". Don't be fooled,Bush wants to trade, mainly in petroleum products, under the rubric of democracy when in fact he could care less about those people. He probably would have trouble pointing out the middle-east on a map-pre 9/11 . He's using the term "promoting democracy" as a ruse to disguise his true aim of oil trade so him & the carlyle group & halliburton can have a party; mind you at the U.S. Taxpayers expense but, when has it been any other way.

 

[Brian Cotgrove]

I don't believe a word of his, I've weighed him up.
Humanitarian? my ****.
You should read what he wrote about the 'Mexican pooftas' a general term of his about people who moved to live in his neck of the woods (white enclave I suppose). He was even castigated by all the Ozzies on the board. Heil Brian, goosestep practice today down at the track.
I've done with him now. He won't backtrack on this one like he's done on some of his previous posts.

Fred, there you go again, jumping to conclusions, when will you admit your clutching at straw's.

You neeed to live here to know of which you speak, and seeing as how you don't, your up a creek without a paddle again.

The other oZZie's you speak of were a bit precious about the use of such phrases.

'Poofta" was in use long before I ever came to live here, it described an item not neccessarily a person, however it could also be used to describe a person too, but not with the connotations that were bleated about by some of the more touchy people that were posting then.

I was quite surprised when those same people remarked about the use of the term, it has been used for so long it is part of the culture, whether right or wrong, I've been called a poofta on more than one occasion, when it suited the person using the term. The only difference is, it didn't affect me in any way shape or form, as I said, mainly because I have heard it used so many times before.

When something is not going right or someone has come upon a problem it was called a, "poofta of a....." the same as you might use an expletive, Fred?

The same applies for the word "GAY" (Light Hearted, Lively, Merry, Cheerful, Bright, Showy, Sportive, Addicted to Pleasure) it was in use long before the people of the persuasion of non Heterosexual, coined it, to describe themselves.

Any one who lives South of the Queensland Border, is called a Mexican, it's a term of endearment, something you wouldn't understand Fred, as I said you have to live here to kow about such things, and seeing that you don't live here, you don't know what you're talking about anyway.

Castigated.....you've got to be joking.....precious little people running about in circles.....worry me...."not"......the same applies to "you" Fred.

"Smoke and Mirror's Fred, Smoke and Mirror's"....You think I'm not on your case Fred.....don't kid yourself, the world get's smaller by the day?

You must think all the others are as gullible as you, and the one's who voted for G.W.

Maybe you'll get a reaction from some of the Ozzie's you speak about, but they haven't come up here to sort me out, what does that say to you, Fred,

"Schoolyard Bully Tactic's", sticks and stones, Fred.

You must have too much time on your hands to go searching the post's for some ammunition.......it must be worrying you......?

As far as Les is concerned his secret is safe with me, I've got nothing to gain by letting the cat out of the bag either, so why do you persist with your futile attempts......it's beyond me....I'm "wake up" to you chum.

As I have also said before there are things I wouldn't even tell you Fred, I'm no kiss and tell Bike rider. Don't waste any more of your time Fred you're pissing into the wind, and you know what happens when you do that, your lible to get your own back, mate, it can get very smelly.

Have a good day Fred, I know I will, I live in Queensland and it a bloody fantastic place to live.

Goose Stepping, I'm sure you know how, you talk about it a lot........Latent Deutcher....bischtimpt?

KTWIM,ADLB,UITSWYDOTLC?TBC

 

[limerickman]

G'day fred, mate I wholeheartedly concur with what you say, say with regards the Islamic people's way of life it has never been a problemm with me and the


Gooday Les, hope the training is going well, climbing sounds top shelf too, keep up the good work, mate?

KTWIM,ADLB,UITSWYDOTLC?TBC

Brian - who is Les ?

 

[Trekker2017]

I think trekker2017 would be more "above-board" if he used the term "imposing a society amenable to capitalistic enterprise". Don't be fooled,Bush wants to trade, mainly in petroleum products, under the rubric of democracy when in fact he could care less about those people. He probably would have trouble pointing out the middle-east on a map-pre 9/11 . He's using the term "promoting democracy" as a ruse to disguise his true aim of oil trade so him & the carlyle group & halliburton can have a party; mind you at the U.S. Taxpayers expense but, when has it been any other way.

No problem... I think "imposing a society amenable to capitalistic enterprise" is a very good definition of what American Democracy stands for. However, don't under estimate the man. "a ruse to disguise his true aim of oil trade..." is far too shallow. He is not shallow. Think of him as a magician. By thinking of him as shallow you are looking at the hand that is meant to distract you.

 

[Trekker2017]

Well, I have no problem if Americans support this notion of "imposing democracy" within their own sovereign territory.
The difficulty I have is that the imperialist Bush goverment is seeking to impose democracy outside it's sovereign territory.
And it seeks to impose democracy in areas and locations where democracy,
has no support.

Unlike a lot of Americans here, you appear to be able to discuss these issues.

American history is a continum of imposing it's form of democracy on areas and locations outside of it's sovereign territory. In a recent essay in the American Quarterly (the scholarly magazine of the American Studies group), there is a new piece which has coined the term "geographic conflict" for this type of activity. (Their initial example of this on the North American Continent was the French imposing their rule on the Native Americans of Canada in the late 1600s. They could have easily have said the same thing of the Puritans in New England or the Spanish in the South.) What amazed me was that you could merely have substituted the words United States for France and Iraqis for Native Americans and the sense would have been the same. Note: American Studies professors are reticent to say "indians".

 

[limerickman]

He is not shallow. Think of him as a magician. By thinking of him as shallow you are looking at the hand that is meant to distract you.

I tend to think of him as a failed one trick pony, actually.

 

[Trekker2017]

I tend to think of him as a failed one trick pony, actually.

Just out of curiosity: What would Bush have had to have done to have succeeded for you?

From where I sit, I see a man who is using his positon of power to extend American hegemony over people who were/and still are antagonistic to us. We have troops in Afganistan, Iraq and now we are threatening Iran and North Korea. If part of his agenda is to extend American power and grab oil rights for his cronies... he ain't doin' so bad. We've only just managed to slow him from grabbing some very pristine Alaskan lands for his oil buddies, but that won't last for long.

 

[davidmc]

No problem... I think "imposing a society amenable to capitalistic enterprise" is a very good definition of what American Democracy stands for. However, don't under estimate the man. "a ruse to disguise his true aim of oil trade..." is far too shallow. He is not shallow. Think of him as a magician. By thinking of him as shallow you are looking at the hand that is meant to distract you.

I don't think you understood the thrust of my post. I meant that "W's" main aim was to secure access to oil. The other intents were secondary,tertiary, quanternary, ect... Remember, I don't endorse this guy, Bush-Cheney, whomever is making the calls. I didn't vote for him. I'm a 49%'er !!! Seems to me that you swallowed their rhetoric-hook,line & sinker. Your duplicity-naiveté concerns me.

 

[zapper]

Just out of curiosity: What would Bush have had to have done to have succeeded for you?

From where I sit, I see a man who is using his positon of power to extend American hegemony over people who were/and still are antagonistic to us. We have troops in Afganistan, Iraq and now we are threatening Iran and North Korea. If part of his agenda is to extend American power and grab oil rights for his cronies... he ain't doin' so bad. We've only just managed to slow him from grabbing some very pristine Alaskan lands for his oil buddies, but that won't last for long.

changed his name to kerry and bowed down to all terrorists...

 

[Trekker2017]

I don't think you understood the thrust of my post. I meant that "W's" main aim was to secure access to oil. The other intents were secondary,tertiary, quanternary, ect... Remember, I don't endorse this guy, Bush-Cheney, whomever is making the calls. I didn't vote for him. I'm a 49%'er !!! Seems to me that you swallowed their rhetoric-hook,line & sinker. Your duplicity-naiveté concerns me.

Actually, I didn't vote for him either and I don't endorse what he's doing. I am merely looking at his actions from a particular angle, that of an American Exptionalist. What I see, is a continuous historical agenda first established by the Puritans who founded the Massachusetts Bay Colony. Their "ethic", what they stood for, and how they treated other peoples and religions has permiated American history to the present time. Bush is merely the latest in a long line of men in power who seems to be following this ethic to its natural conclusion, a conclusion which in the long run will spell the distruction of what we now know as "the American way of life", an event which I can forsee happening in the next quarter of a century.

American Exceptionalism is currently not in vogue with acedemia. There was a revisionist movement back in 1975 that moved American Studies away from exceptionalizm and into the study of culture and subculture in America. To me and a few others that's like studying the tree and forgetting that it makes up a forest.

As I said in a previous post, if you are looking at oil, he's got you looking away from the trick. This man is the front man for an agenda that is much more insidious and ingenious than that.

 

[davidmc]

If part of his agenda is to extend American power and grab oil rights for his cronies... he ain't doin' so bad. We've only just managed to slow him from grabbing some very pristine Alaskan lands for his oil buddies, but that won't last for long.

If he wants to grab oil right's under false pretenses that's fine just don't commit the, abovementioned, crime under the guise of good-heartedness & w/ American taxpayer dollars. If they're weren't an ensuing bloodbath it might not be so odious. No, upon further reflection, it would still be odious. Illegal is illegal. The illegal act is referred to as "conflict of interest" & using "public" funds (taxpayer money) to pay for "private" endeavors.