Poll: Hating America



I'm from Georgia, U.S.A and i love what the U.S. was built upon.
Sept 11 was an intentional act to destroy the country's financial center & it inflicted alot of casualties. It would seem the "towers" were thier primary objective and the casualties just a byproduct of the former. Those people seem to hate the U.S.'s ever encroaching hegemony via buisiness practices(e.g.-bhopal,india; for one) and pop culture as a way to part people from thier $ for useless & dangerous goods such as pop music cd's(the scourge of the earth) these things encourage thirteen yr old girls to wear clothe's that resemble "streetwalkers" garb & fast food(limited nutritional value) & soda's(no redeeming value)
Another item of interest, is our habit of conspicious consumption. It never ceases to amaze me when i see some 110 lb. woman driving @ by herself in a caddilac escalade or some such vehicle that wiegh's @ 6000 lbs. It's f***ing disgusting. What % of resources do we use irt our population? It's some way "out of wack" #. If anybody knows let me know, it's something like 5% of the worlds population & over 1/2 of the worlds consumption of material' We can fix some if, not all, of these things by demanding our politicians fix idiotic tax laws that are ripe for abuse, fix financing laws & make corporations responsible for cleaning up thier messes. If they refuse, run the bums out of office. And walk or ride a bike :D to the store, instead of driving, once in a while; for pete's sake!!!
 
davidmc said:
There might be one flaw in your reasoning, 2nd term president's, in the u.s., have nothing to lose because they can't run for the same office again. This gives them an incentive to ram the most extreme of thier views through the houses w/o concern for any backlash. Things they never would've even tried to do on thier 1st term.This is what really concerns me w/ bush & why i will never vote for him. If the amer. people(the one's who care to vote) put this guy into a 2nd term i would'nt be suprised if he tries to make america the christian version of the taliban.
One final thought, has the spread of amer. pop culture been brought up. If someone tried to broadcast britney spears and/or janet jackson into my country's airwaves, i'd be very angry. I'm not joking. It's pop culture trash. The same goes for Pepsi, McDonalds, ect...

Boy, you sure dug up an old post, didn't you? I hate to be drawn into this thread but I guess I should respond.

A second term president does not have free reign. The president can not pass legislation without the house and senate. Since the house and senate are comprised of elected members, then citizens can hold their congressmen and senators accountable. If they vote in opposition to public interests, theoretically they will not gain re-election. This is strong incentive for house and senate members to conform to the will of the people. Of course, this assumes that citizens are actually paying attention and expressing their will, which they're not, cuz they're too busy watching TV.

And let's not forget that the 2nd amendment allows citizens the right to bear arms. The NRA psychos are always saying this is important so they can overthrow a tyrranical government right? So as a last resort, I suppose if the second term president really got out of hand, then the nutjob militias can mobilize and take over. Right, crazy NRA people? Yeah, that makes so much sense.... :rolleyes:

The truth is Americans simply DO NOT CARE. They don't care about their own citizens and they certainly don't care about the impact of their policies on the rest of the world. 9/11 was a bit of a wake up call and forced some dialogue about the impact America has on the rest of the world. But I've noticed that this self-reflection has faded in the last couple of years.

I still say that Americans are fully accountable for the actions of their democratically elected government. With freedom comes responsibility. If you refuse to take that responsibility seriously, then don't be surprised when other interests usurp the power. And don't be surprised when the countries you **** around with want to fly planes into our buildings. We have no one but ourselves to blame for the problems in our democracy and for the problems we face with the rest of the world.

If it is considered a sport, I think it would be kind of fun if it got into the Olympics. I wonder who would be the medallists? Any guesses?

Hey, nobody responded to this! It really hurt my feelings! :(

Gold - Pakistan (don't be fooled by Musharraf, Pakistanis hate westerners)
Silver - Egypt
Bronze - Canada (surprise!)

Honorable mentions: South Korea (yes even South koreans hate us!), France, Mexico.

(Palestine is not a state and therefore could not submit an entry in this event.)
 
Saucy said:
Boy, you sure dug up an old post, didn't you? I hate to be drawn into this thread but I guess I should respond.

A second term president does not have free reign. The president can not pass legislation without the house and senate. Since the house and senate are comprised of elected members, then citizens can hold their congressmen and senators accountable. If they vote in opposition to public interests, theoretically they will not gain re-election. This is strong incentive for house and senate members to conform to the will of the people. Of course, this assumes that citizens are actually paying attention and expressing their will, which they're not, cuz they're too busy watching TV.

And let's not forget that the 2nd amendment allows citizens the right to bear arms. The NRA psychos are always saying this is important so they can overthrow a tyrranical government right? So as a last resort, I suppose if the second term president really got out of hand, then the nutjob militias can mobilize and take over. Right, crazy NRA people? Yeah, that makes so much sense.... :rolleyes:

The truth is Americans simply DO NOT CARE. They don't care about their own citizens and they certainly don't care about the impact of their policies on the rest of the world. 9/11 was a bit of a wake up call and forced some dialogue about the impact America has on the rest of the world. But I've noticed that this self-reflection has faded in the last couple of years.

I still say that Americans are fully accountable for the actions of their democratically elected government. With freedom comes responsibility. If you refuse to take that responsibility seriously, then don't be surprised when other interests usurp the power. And don't be surprised when the countries you **** around with want to fly planes into our buildings. We have no one but ourselves to blame for the problems in our democracy and for the problems we face with the rest of the world.



Hey, nobody responded to this! It really hurt my feelings! :(

Gold - Pakistan (don't be fooled by Musharraf, Pakistanis hate westerners)
Silver - Egypt
Bronze - Canada (surprise!)

Honorable mentions: South Korea (yes even South koreans hate us!), France, Mexico.

(Palestine is not a state and therefore could not submit an entry in this event.)
Had some time on my hands & decided to go rummaging @ the "box" Yeah, i started a thread entitled -biking sport or hobby? that only has a few responses.Kinda' like your question. I can't top that list except to add france(disneyland debacle), khartoum, damascus. What do u think about those ?:rolleyes:
 
davidmc said:
Had some time on my hands & decided to go rummaging @ the "box" Yeah, i started a thread entitled -biking sport or hobby? that only has a few responses.Kinda' like your question. I can't top that list except to add france(disneyland debacle), khartoum, damascus. What do u think about those ?:rolleyes:

Good choices. Its a toss up with all the middle-eastern countries. I thought I would go with the less obvious contenders. You know, there are so many countries that hate us, its hard to choose. Suffice to say that this is one olympic event that will not require doping to obtain a competitive result. I think pure unadulterated hatred is enough to motivate any team towards a gold medal performance.

Apparently Disneyland Paris is really popular now, even with the french. I think its been taken over by a french firm.
 
Saucy said:
Good choices. Its a toss up with all the middle-eastern countries. I thought I would go with the less obvious contenders. You know, there are so many countries that hate us, its hard to choose. Suffice to say that this is one olympic event that will not require doping to obtain a competitive result. I think pure unadulterated hatred is enough to motivate any team towards a gold medal performance.

Apparently Disneyland Paris is really popular now, even with the french. I think its been taken over by a french firm.
How true, there is no substitute for unadulterated hatred of which there is a great abundance. Incidentally, i gather you live in the northern hemisphere;judging from your avatar info., however that covers alot of area. Your's is pretty original! You do have the decency to narrow down your area. Some other people choose not to even give a hint to as where they reside which diminishes the exchange/ or feel one could infer due to thier environs. I live near the "epicenter of the universe'-Washington, D.C.
 
davidmc said:
How true, there is no substitute for unadulterated hatred of which there is a great abundance. Incidentally, i gather you live in the northern hemisphere;judging from your avatar info., however that covers alot of area. Your's is pretty original! You do have the decency to narrow down your area. Some other people choose not to even give a hint to as where they reside which diminishes the exchange/ or feel one could infer due to thier environs. I live near the "epicenter of the universe'-Washington, D.C.

Hah, well I guess I'm one of the cowards by not listing my location then? I make up my identity as it suits my needs - right now I am an 80 y/o american female, an identity forged when other posters accused me first of being female, then of being 80 y/o. So I went with it and its been fun. Go with the flow, I say! If a thread comes up about Mexican politics, you can be sure I will claim to be to be a revolutionary from Chiapas.

Why does location matter? Does it matter whether I'm from Arkansas or Oregon? or even Mexico?
 
Saucy said:
Hah, well I guess I'm one of the cowards by not listing my location then? I make up my identity as it suits my needs - right now I am an 80 y/o american female, an identity forged when other posters accused me first of being female, then of being 80 y/o. So I went with it and its been fun. Go with the flow, I say! If a thread comes up about Mexican politics, you can be sure I will claim to be to be a revolutionary from Chiapas.

Why does location matter? Does it matter whether I'm from Arkansas or Oregon? or even Mexico?
I like your style, old woman. I, on the other hand, am a 14-year-old castrati in the employment of the Royal Burmese youth choir. It's a good life. At least they let me ride.
 
An article by Laura Ingraham on Anti-Americanism ....


So far we’ve learned one big thing about anti-Americanism: it seems to help your golf game. This weekend, for the second time in a row and the fourth time in the last five matches, the European golfers defeated their continent’s version of the Evil Empire, trouncing the United States to keep the Ryder Cup. The enthusiasm with which the Europeans pounded the red, white and blue – along with the odd lack of passion from the U.S. side – were eerily similar to last month’s basketball competition at the Olympics, where foreign players challenged our NBA sleepwalkers as if they were playing the Great Satan himself.

Sports always reflect popular culture, and what we are seeing in the international sports arena is just a simplified version of what goes on every day in the real world. Intellectuals around the globe – lost and adrift for years after the failure of socialism – have largely settled on anti-Americanism as their new ideological vehicle of choice. You can see this in Al-Jazeera’s rah-rah attitude toward the suicide bombers and hostage-takers who have disrupted our efforts in Iraq. You can see it in the tight-lipped anger of Kofi Annan, who never misses a chance to let slip a bad word about the United States. You can see it in the electorates of Western Europe, where struggling governments in France and Germany use anti-U.S. rhetoric to maintain the political support. You can even see it across the border, where Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin held onto office a few months ago by accusing his conservative opponent of pushing ideas that were too American.

Indeed, you cannot understand the current world crisis unless you appreciate the extent to which much of the world is down with the anti-American flu. Why isn’t Kofi Annan happy that the United States and its allies finally implemented the many U.N. resolutions condemning Saddam Hussein? Why aren’t so-called “moderates” across the Moslem world happy that Hussein has been hauled off to prison? Why are lefties across Britain screaming for Tony Blair’s head? Why does Michael Moore get feted with rose-petals across Europe? Why doesn’t anyone care that China is stomping on democracy in Hong Kong, but foreign election observers are coming to check on our presidential race? In every case, the explanation relates to simple, raw, unreasoning hatred for the United States. For too many people around the world, anything that’s good for the United States must be bad for everyone else.

It is difficult to imagine a more unpleasant situation for American liberals. For the most part, these folks are far more at home in Paris or Geneva than they would be in Cincinnati or St. Louis. For decades, American liberals have basically stolen all of their ideas from Western Europe. The sexual revolution, pacifism, sucking up to the Soviet Union, higher taxes, a more restrictive welfare state: each and every one of these ideas originated in Europe before being embraced by the American left. Heedless of the fact that Americans often disagree with Europeans, and that ideas designed for the French electorate might not play in Peoria, the liberals have paid heavily for their dependence on foreign thought. But even American liberals have to be a bit wary of promoting anti-Americanism to an American electorate.

So they have adopted the see-no-evil hear-no-evil strategy: just pretend that anti-Americanism doesn’t really exist. Oh, no, promises John Kerry, it’s not that they hate us, they just don’t like George Bush. Once he’s gone, it’ll be just like the days of John F. Kennedy and Ich bin ein Berliner. We’ll get allies to help us in Iraq, the United Nations will sign off on any preemptive strikes we’d like to launch, the lion will lay down with the lamb, and the “alliance” will be restored.

The problem with this argument is that the American people have slightly better memories that the Democrats give us credit for. We remember all the silly anti-Reagan marches across Europe in the early 1980’s. We remember that as long ago as 1975, Daniel Patrick Moynihan, of all people, was moved to call the United Nations “a theater of the absurd.” We remember that de Gaulle kicked NATO forces out of France in the late 1960’s, and that France wouldn’t even let us fly through their precious air space when we retaliated against Libya in 1986. And we remember that when Bill Clinton – who the Democrats tell us was loved around the world -- negotiated the Kyoto Protocol and the International Criminal Court treaties, the results were so hostile to our interests that he didn’t even try to get Senate approval. In short, we know that anti-Americanism is nothing new, and we can tell the difference between “allies” who really wants to help us – think Winston Churchill, Margaret Thatcher, and Tony Blair – and countries who despise us but who occasionally refer to themselves as “allies” because they need our help.

Right now, that knowledge is carrying George Bush to victory. Americans aren’t naïve: we know that the situation could be better in Iraq, and we have real doubts about the prospects for democracy in the Middle East. Most of us are still concerned about whether we’re doing enough to defend our homeland – particularly given this Administration’s refusal to defend our borders. In short, we would be willing to consider a serious criticism of the Bush Administration and its foreign policy.

But we also know that Kerry’s fantasia about reaching out to Europe and the United Nations isn’t serious. At least the Bush Administration is standing up for us, instead of countries and institutions who hate us. Unlike John Kerry, President Bush sees that anti-Americanism is real. He knows that the International Criminal Court would be used against our soldiers. He knows that the Kyoto Protocol would be used against our economy. He knows that the United Nations is both a haven for despots and the world-wide headquarters of anti-Americanism. He knows that weakening ourselves won’t win the respect of the world, but will simply let them hurt us even more. And right now, with anti-Americanism running amuck, we need a president who knows those things.

If John Kerry wants to turn this election around, he has got to accept the fact that Americans see no reason to trust the rest of the world. Until he and the other Democrats show that they will stand up to anti-Americanism, Zell Miller will remain a hero, and the Republicans will keep getting big cheers for their applause lines about “not outsourcing our foreign policy” and “not getting a permission slip from the U.N.” And unless Kerry turns this thing around very quickly, the America-bashers around the world will help put George Bush right back into the White House.
 
Jakebrake said:
An article by Laura Ingraham on Anti-Americanism ....


So far we’ve learned one big thing about anti-Americanism: it seems to help your golf game. This weekend, for the second time in a row and the fourth time in the last five matches, the European golfers defeated their continent’s version of the Evil Empire, trouncing the United States to keep the Ryder Cup. The enthusiasm with which the Europeans pounded the red, white and blue – along with the odd lack of passion from the U.S. side – were eerily similar to last month’s basketball competition at the Olympics, where foreign players challenged our NBA sleepwalkers as if they were playing the Great Satan himself.

Sports always reflect popular culture, and what we are seeing in the international sports arena is just a simplified version of what goes on every day in the real world. Intellectuals around the globe – lost and adrift for years after the failure of socialism – have largely settled on anti-Americanism as their new ideological vehicle of choice. You can see this in Al-Jazeera’s rah-rah attitude toward the suicide bombers and hostage-takers who have disrupted our efforts in Iraq. You can see it in the tight-lipped anger of Kofi Annan, who never misses a chance to let slip a bad word about the United States. You can see it in the electorates of Western Europe, where struggling governments in France and Germany use anti-U.S. rhetoric to maintain the political support. You can even see it across the border, where Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin held onto office a few months ago by accusing his conservative opponent of pushing ideas that were too American.

Indeed, you cannot understand the current world crisis unless you appreciate the extent to which much of the world is down with the anti-American flu. Why isn’t Kofi Annan happy that the United States and its allies finally implemented the many U.N. resolutions condemning Saddam Hussein? Why aren’t so-called “moderates” across the Moslem world happy that Hussein has been hauled off to prison? Why are lefties across Britain screaming for Tony Blair’s head? Why does Michael Moore get feted with rose-petals across Europe? Why doesn’t anyone care that China is stomping on democracy in Hong Kong, but foreign election observers are coming to check on our presidential race? In every case, the explanation relates to simple, raw, unreasoning hatred for the United States. For too many people around the world, anything that’s good for the United States must be bad for everyone else.

It is difficult to imagine a more unpleasant situation for American liberals. For the most part, these folks are far more at home in Paris or Geneva than they would be in Cincinnati or St. Louis. For decades, American liberals have basically stolen all of their ideas from Western Europe. The sexual revolution, pacifism, sucking up to the Soviet Union, higher taxes, a more restrictive welfare state: each and every one of these ideas originated in Europe before being embraced by the American left. Heedless of the fact that Americans often disagree with Europeans, and that ideas designed for the French electorate might not play in Peoria, the liberals have paid heavily for their dependence on foreign thought. But even American liberals have to be a bit wary of promoting anti-Americanism to an American electorate.

So they have adopted the see-no-evil hear-no-evil strategy: just pretend that anti-Americanism doesn’t really exist. Oh, no, promises John Kerry, it’s not that they hate us, they just don’t like George Bush. Once he’s gone, it’ll be just like the days of John F. Kennedy and Ich bin ein Berliner. We’ll get allies to help us in Iraq, the United Nations will sign off on any preemptive strikes we’d like to launch, the lion will lay down with the lamb, and the “alliance” will be restored.

The problem with this argument is that the American people have slightly better memories that the Democrats give us credit for. We remember all the silly anti-Reagan marches across Europe in the early 1980’s. We remember that as long ago as 1975, Daniel Patrick Moynihan, of all people, was moved to call the United Nations “a theater of the absurd.” We remember that de Gaulle kicked NATO forces out of France in the late 1960’s, and that France wouldn’t even let us fly through their precious air space when we retaliated against Libya in 1986. And we remember that when Bill Clinton – who the Democrats tell us was loved around the world -- negotiated the Kyoto Protocol and the International Criminal Court treaties, the results were so hostile to our interests that he didn’t even try to get Senate approval. In short, we know that anti-Americanism is nothing new, and we can tell the difference between “allies” who really wants to help us – think Winston Churchill, Margaret Thatcher, and Tony Blair – and countries who despise us but who occasionally refer to themselves as “allies” because they need our help.

Right now, that knowledge is carrying George Bush to victory. Americans aren’t naïve: we know that the situation could be better in Iraq, and we have real doubts about the prospects for democracy in the Middle East. Most of us are still concerned about whether we’re doing enough to defend our homeland – particularly given this Administration’s refusal to defend our borders. In short, we would be willing to consider a serious criticism of the Bush Administration and its foreign policy.

But we also know that Kerry’s fantasia about reaching out to Europe and the United Nations isn’t serious. At least the Bush Administration is standing up for us, instead of countries and institutions who hate us. Unlike John Kerry, President Bush sees that anti-Americanism is real. He knows that the International Criminal Court would be used against our soldiers. He knows that the Kyoto Protocol would be used against our economy. He knows that the United Nations is both a haven for despots and the world-wide headquarters of anti-Americanism. He knows that weakening ourselves won’t win the respect of the world, but will simply let them hurt us even more. And right now, with anti-Americanism running amuck, we need a president who knows those things.

If John Kerry wants to turn this election around, he has got to accept the fact that Americans see no reason to trust the rest of the world. Until he and the other Democrats show that they will stand up to anti-Americanism, Zell Miller will remain a hero, and the Republicans will keep getting big cheers for their applause lines about “not outsourcing our foreign policy” and “not getting a permission slip from the U.N.” And unless Kerry turns this thing around very quickly, the America-bashers around the world will help put George Bush right back into the White House.

Interesting point of view. I must say that a lot of the current anti-American sentiment can be directly traced, to the US's suspicion of "foreign thought" to America's "go it alone rest of the world be damned" attitude. I have a feeling that America's fervent and some what creepy nationalism contributes to this and prevents the US from entertaining foreign ideas or working more closely within the international community. It's why you view noble international initiatives such as the Kyoto Protocol or the International Criminal Court as "hostile to your interests." Well, they weren't drafted for your interests, they were drafted for the greater good of the world at large. The UN is a huge bureaucracy granted, and would probably benefit from some sort of restructuring but as an international forum and something approaching an international democratic body its all there really is. By giving up on the UN the US is giving up on diplomacy, but also on the concept of democracy you hold so dear.

Why shouldn't the US be subject to the same international standards a international criminal court would hold other countries to just because your economy is bigger or just because your military is bigger or maintains a larger world presence. This fact alone should justify your participation. If an American soldier, (or their commanding officers) breaks the Geneva Convention why should they be exempt from responsibly? Is such a situation that implausible? I think Abu Ghraib showed the world it isn't

Why shouldn't America take responsibility for the impact she has on the environment. If America uses 80% of the worlds energy it should shoulder a fair share of the expense of cutting greenhouse gases. If you didn't think Kyoto was fair than suggest something different but global warming is a global problem and the rest of the world sees America as shirking their responsibility on this issue. It's like the Orwell quote: All animals are equal but some are more equal than others.

In a nut shell it's hubris. America can fail to recognize or respect this fact but until she does don't expect to gain the respect of either your enemies or your allies.
 
Global warming from anthropogenic carbon? Kyoto is BAD science. Really BAD science.

The global carbon cycle is a central issue of the proposed "global warming" hypothesis. This cycle is poorly understood by most and searching for facts returns overwhelming information, the most damning being the missing carbon. This is carbon, released by human activity from fossil fuels, that cannot be accounted for in the carbon cycle. Over half of the carbon released by human activity falls into this catagory. More precisely, out of the 8 billion metric tons of carbon released into the carbon cycle each year, only 3.2 billion tons shows up in atmospheric measurments.

Where does it go? Research should look at the obivious, photosynthesis. The function of plants to use CO2 and water with energy from the sun to make carbohydrates (carbo-carbon, hydrate-water). In making carbohydrates, they give off oxygen.

CO2 + H2O + energy = nCH20 + O2 where n is the polymeric number of the carbohydrate, 6 for the sugar sucrose.

Researchers are blinded because they look to trees which only make 8% of the earth's oxygen, the smallest contributor to the oxygen cycle and similarily, the smallest fraction of carbon dioxide absorption.

Looking for larger numbers, one goes to the next level, grasslands and crops. This is still tiny, a 12% producer of oxygen and similar carbon dioxide absorber. Even combined with the trees, its still tiny compared to the seas.

Yes, 80% of the earth's oxygen comes from the sea. So it stands to reason 80% or so of the carbon cycle is tied to the seas. Occum's razor? Definitely.

The weakness in this assumption is the carbon of the oceans is assumed to be floating in the upper levels of the ocean, in constant flux. For carbon to be sequestered or "stored" in the ocean, it needs to become sediment. Currents and life prevent this, or so it was thought. And if it was forming a sediment, it could be quantified in dredgings of the bottom. But the carbon could not be found, at least in a form recognizable as biogenic.

Ocean scientists have long speculated over another mystery, that being chitin. Chitin is the shells of marine life like shrimp, crabs and the like. Exoskeletons which are complex carbonhydrates. Yes, carbohydrates. Carbohydrates which resist digestion by higher life forms like marine invertabrates, fish and marine mammals. How much missing chitin? 1000 billion metric tons, per year!

The "missing carbon" pales in comparison to "missing chitin" by a factor of 240. 240 times more chitin winds up missing each year that carbon. And chitin contains carbon. A lot of carbon. About 40% by carbon by mass so the missing carbon in chitin is still about 100 times greater than the missing carbon in the atmosphere.

Now where is this chitin going? Bacteria on the ocean floor are degrading this chitin, feeding on it. The scale of the decomposition is only recently demonstrated. Seems like the bacterial have developed a sense of finding chitin and rapidly colonizing the deposit.

Writing in the Online Early Edition of "Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences" for the week of Dec. 29, 2003, Xibing Li and Saul Roseman reported that they had found a genetic master switch that reacts to the presence of nearby chitin and sets off a biological chain reaction, causing the bacterial feast to begin. Understanding this process is important because 1011 tons of chitin (pronounced "KITE-in") are dumped annually in the oceans, largely by tiny sea animals called copepods, which shed their shells as they grow. "If nothing happened to this debris, we'd be up to our eyeballs in chitin, and the carbon and nitrogen cycle upon which marine life depends would be gone within 50 to 75 years," said Roseman, a professor of biology in the Kreiger School of Arts and Sciences at Johns Hopkins.

Researchers were puzzled about the disappearance of chitin because little of the material turned up in sediment on the ocean floors. Where did all of the chitin go? Then, about 70 years ago, two microbiologists determined that bacteria were quickly consuming the sinking shells and preserving the ecological balance. Since then, however, several mysteries have remained: How do the bacteria find these undersea meals? How do these microorganisms attach themselves to the chitin? How do they degrade the tough material and turn it into food?
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_relea...u-gms122903.php

Ok, so the bacteria are degrading the chitin. This would release the carbon back into the water and ultimately back into the atmosphere, right? Not so fast.

Studies on cores taken from the sediment and from a deep agar mixed culture of sediment microorganisms have shown that the activity of chitinase is greatest at depths just below the point at which oxygen becomes undetectable (ie. anaerobic).
http://www.gutbugs.dabsol.co.uk/publish/abs5.htm

The bacteria are anerobic meaning they derive energy without using oxygen and instead of making carbon dioxide, they make methane. Here is where the global warming Luddites enter the self-flagelation stage. Methane is a more powerful greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide and therefore this is bad. But just like the original Luddites, the GW variety fails to see the big picture, that is the methane never makes it to the surface.

Yes, this methane is locked away in vast expanses of ocean floors as an ice-methane deposit known as clathrates. The earth had about 5,000 gigatons (5 x 10^15 tons) of carbon in the form of conventional fossil fuels, both recoverable and non-recoverable, potential and consumed. The oceans have about twice that in clathrate deposits. 10,000 gigatons of carbon are contained in clathrates. Since clathrates cannot exist in deeper ocean sediments (20 feet below the mudline) due to geothermal heat, their origin is most probably from biological activity.



clathres.p.gif
 
Didn't expect to get the chitin theory on Cyclingforums.com. It's an interesting question, a stimulating counter to some of the Kyoto papers and a good post, Wessie, but the reality remains that the debate over the basic premise of the global warming theory was declared over by every major scientific institution on the planet 10 years ago.
 
Saucy said:
Hah, well I guess I'm one of the cowards by not listing my location then? I make up my identity as it suits my needs - right now I am an 80 y/o american female, an identity forged when other posters accused me first of being female, then of being 80 y/o. So I went with it and its been fun. Go with the flow, I say! If a thread comes up about Mexican politics, you can be sure I will claim to be to be a revolutionary from Chiapas.

Why does location matter? Does it matter whether I'm from Arkansas or Oregon? or even Mexico?
no, you took it the wrong way :confused: . I enjoy reading your post's. No offense intended!
 
I, on the other hand, am a 14-year-old castrati in the employment of the Royal Burmese youth choir. It's a good life. At least they let me ride.
Castrati? Oh my, I actually had to look that one up in my OED. Nice try Lokseh, but I happen to know that Burma is called Myanmar, so you blew your cover!! You had me going for a minute there… Say how do you think Myanmar would do in the Hating America event?

Jakebrake said:
An article by Laura Ingraham on Anti-Americanism ....
I hate Laura Ingraham. And if I were a terrorist who knew how to fly a plane I would ram it straight into her forehead. Right after I rammed it into Ann Coulter’s cold dead heart. Haha. Just kidding…

Laura Ingraham said:
You can even see it across the border, where Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin held onto office a few months ago by accusing his conservative opponent of pushing ideas that were too American.
See? What did I tell you guys about those Canadians! They are fomenting hatred against us!! Canadian bacon, my ass.

Laura Ingraham said:
Indeed, you cannot understand the current world crisis unless you appreciate the extent to which much of the world is down with the anti-American flu. .
The anti-american flu. So that’s why all those riders dropped out of the Vuelta. She’s right, everyone is coming down with it – Jan Ullrich just bailed out of the WCs.

Laura Ingraham said:
Why isn’t Kofi Annan happy that the United States and its allies finally implemented the many U.N. resolutions condemning Saddam Hussein? Why aren’t so-called “moderates” across the Moslem world happy that Hussein has been hauled off to prison? Why are lefties across Britain screaming for Tony Blair’s head? Why does Michael Moore get feted with rose-petals across Europe? Why doesn’t anyone care that China is stomping on democracy in Hong Kong, but foreign election observers are coming to check on our presidential race?
Uh, because everyone hates America? Because everyone hates Bush? Just a guess.

Laura Ingraham said:
It is difficult to imagine a more unpleasant situation for American liberals.
Actually its not that difficult to imagine…how about….being stuck alone in a room with Laura Ingraham and Ann Coulter. Very very unpleasant and possibly suicide-inducing.

Laura Ingraham said:
For the most part, these folks are far more at home in Paris or Geneva than they would be in Cincinnati or St. Louis.
Hmm. Paris vs. Cincinnati. Tough choice, huh? The Louvre, beautiful architecture, outdoor cafes, state-funded healthcare… or…WKRP and a shithole of mediocrity. Yes, Laura, I think I would be more at home in Paris. I need my liberal café au laits. I’ll fly my plane there after I’m done with you.

Laura Ingraham said:
For decades, American liberals have basically stolen all of their ideas from Western Europe. The sexual revolution, pacifism, sucking up to the Soviet Union, higher taxes, a more restrictive welfare state: each and every one of these ideas originated in Europe before being embraced by the American left.
The sexual revolution, a welfare state, pacifism. Oh, the horror, the horror!! Damn you, western europe and your progressive ideals!

Laura Ingraham said:
So they have adopted the see-no-evil hear-no-evil strategy: just pretend that anti-Americanism doesn’t really exist.
Actually Laura we’re all very well aware that anti-americanism exists. Two planes. Two towers. Kaboom. We get it. In fact, we’re saying its gotten worse with Bush in office, which you seem to be confirming in your little article.

Laura Ingraham said:
But we also know that Kerry’s fantasia about reaching out to Europe and the United Nations isn’t serious.
Haha. Fantasy! Reaching out to Europe and the UN. Diplomacy, negotiation, rapprochement. That’s for suckers!

Laura Ingraham said:
Zell Miller will remain a hero.
This must be in the Bizarro world where “Hero” = “Laughingstock” or “Disloyal Headcase”. I love how the republicans like to “claim” Zell Miller, like he’s some kind of prize. Please take him. Please!!

You know Laura you really should try to come up with something interesting to say. Does everyone hate america right now? Yes, that’s why we started this thread. We already know that. In fact we’re trying to get this event into the Olympics.

Laura, you may want to try coming up with something original instead of pointing out blinding glimpses of the obvious by re-hashing your talking points and old airings of Rush Limbaugh. I can’t understand why someone would employ a knee-jerk reactionary like yourself to write anything. Why don’t you quit this little writing gig and get into the kitchen and bake some cookies like a good republican girl? While you’re there, how about making me a burrito. I like mine steamed.

You know, I really do want to ram a plane into her forehead. Does anyone have a Cessna I could borrow? I think a twin prop should do the job.

Warmest regards,
Juan
Chiapas, mexico
 
Saucy said:
Say how do you think Myanmar would do in the Hating America event?
Either 14th or 15th overall, depending on whether you favor the AP Poll or the ESPN Poll. They should be a higher on the list, frankly; a spectacularly lousy media structure keeps them out of the medal run.

Unocal, everyone's favorite oil leviathan with a Californian name, has been involved in a bloody scandal in Burma -- err, Myanmar since the early '90s. It's a really lovely story, actually, featuring apparent government-sanctioned slavery (that's right, slavery), torture, and all kinds of nonsense, all for the sake of a... drumroll, please... Unocal pipeline project. A thrilling variation on the old sweatshop tale.

Then of course, there's the increasingly active influence of southeast Asian Muslim groups in the region; embittered young Islamists always count for a rank or two on the list. Myanmar's only about 4% Muslim at present, but that number's rising.

...
 
lokstah said:
Didn't expect to get the chitin theory on Cyclingforums.com. It's an interesting question, a stimulating counter to some of the Kyoto papers and a good post, Wessie, but the reality remains that the debate over the basic premise of the global warming theory was declared over by every major scientific institution on the planet 10 years ago.

And are these the same major scientific institutions that were predicting a cooling of the earth back in the 70's? There is quite a lot of contrary scientific opinion on global warming. I myself would like to see imperical scientific data rather than theory based on flawed computer models.
 
pomod said:
Interesting point of view. I must say that a lot of the current anti-American sentiment can be directly traced, to the US's suspicion of "foreign thought" to America's "go it alone rest of the world be damned" attitude. I have a feeling that America's fervent and some what creepy nationalism contributes to this and prevents the US from entertaining foreign ideas or working more closely within the international community. It's why you view noble international initiatives such as the Kyoto Protocol or the International Criminal Court as "hostile to your interests." Well, they weren't drafted for your interests, they were drafted for the greater good of the world at large. The UN is a huge bureaucracy granted, and would probably benefit from some sort of restructuring but as an international forum and something approaching an international democratic body its all there really is. By giving up on the UN the US is giving up on diplomacy, but also on the concept of democracy you hold so dear.

Why shouldn't the US be subject to the same international standards a international criminal court would hold other countries to just because your economy is bigger or just because your military is bigger or maintains a larger world presence. This fact alone should justify your participation. If an American soldier, (or their commanding officers) breaks the Geneva Convention why should they be exempt from responsibly? Is such a situation that implausible? I think Abu Ghraib showed the world it isn't

Why shouldn't America take responsibility for the impact she has on the environment. If America uses 80% of the worlds energy it should shoulder a fair share of the expense of cutting greenhouse gases. If you didn't think Kyoto was fair than suggest something different but global warming is a global problem and the rest of the world sees America as shirking their responsibility on this issue. It's like the Orwell quote: All animals are equal but some are more equal than others.

In a nut shell it's hubris. America can fail to recognize or respect this fact but until she does don't expect to gain the respect of either your enemies or your allies.

If the Kyoto Protocol is a noble international initiative and was drafted for the greater good of the world at large, why are countries like China, India, and Mexico, who's combined population is over 2 billion, and who are some of the worlds worst polluters, exempted from Kyoto?

Even if Kyoto were fully implemented worldwide, it is estimated that it might have lowered the world’s temperature by 7/1000ths of a degree C. I would also add that many of those who have ratified the treaty already have failed to reach their targeted reductions. Kyoto wasn't about climate, rather, it is more political. It was about forcing free market competing nations such as the United States into the same economic and political stagnation as those in Europe. Kyoto is about redistributing global wealth to third world nations.

I've never seen the figure that the United States uses 80% of the world's energy. Could you perhaps offer some evidence to support that? The numbers that I have seen are that The United States, with only four percent of the world’s population, produces 20 percent of greenhouse gas emissions but 25 percent of global GDP. The rest of the world produces 80 percent of greenhouse gases, with the largest share coming from nations such as China and India exempted from Kyoto Treaty controls as I had mentioned before.
 
lokstah said:
Either 14th or 15th overall, depending on whether you favor the AP Poll or the ESPN Poll. They should be a higher on the list, frankly; a spectacularly lousy media structure keeps them out of the medal run.

Unocal, everyone's favorite oil leviathan with a Californian name, has been involved in a bloody scandal in Burma -- err, Myanmar since the early '90s. It's a really lovely story, actually, featuring apparent government-sanctioned slavery (that's right, slavery), torture, and all kinds of nonsense, all for the sake of a... drumroll, please... Unocal pipeline project. A thrilling variation on the old sweatshop tale.

Then of course, there's the increasingly active influence of southeast Asian Muslim groups in the region; embittered young Islamists always count for a rank or two on the list. Myanmar's only about 4% Muslim at present, but that number's rising.

...
don't forget Pat Robertson's gold mining operation in Liberia. Wonder how that's going now that Taylor's gone.
 
davidmc said:
don't forget Pat Robertson's gold mining operation in Liberia. Wonder how that's going now that Taylor's gone.
Don't forget DNC chairman McAuliffe! Made a cool 18 million off a 180 thousand dollar investment in Global Crossing. Sold out just before GC declared bankruptcy. Seems to be shady characters on both sides.
 
Bikerman2004 said:
Don't forget DNC chairman McAuliffe! Made a cool 18 million off a 180 thousand dollar investment in Global Crossing. Sold out just before GC declared bankruptcy. Seems to be shady characters on both sides.
Of course there are; only a fool would doubt that. The Global Crossing nonsense isn't a great example of misery overseas directly resulting from American excess, though, unless there's something about that operation I don't understand...
 
lokstah said:
Of course there are; only a fool would doubt that. The Global Crossing nonsense isn't a great example of misery overseas directly resulting from American excess, though, unless there's something about that operation I don't understand...
Then this is a pointless discussion. There are plenty of non-American companies guilty of the same thing. Unless the aim is link American company excess to Republicans, conservatives, or Bush.