Poll: How well does Campy 10speed shift Shimano 9speed cogs?

[Eric Lambi]

Hello folks,

I've read here and several other places that Record 10speed Ergo/RD
will shift Shimano 9speed cassettes acceptably well. I need a new DA
9sp STI and RD, but the Record 10sp stuff seems awfully cool, and
isn't much more expensive.

So, of those who have tried it, how well does it work compared to
stock DA9 shifting?

and

Does it improve things at all to replace the loose Shimano spacers
with Campy 10 spacers?

and

Which chain?

Thanks,

Eric Lambi

 

[Pete]

Your going to get quite a range of responses. Some people are demanding
would not be happy at all and others would be happy with about anything.

Here are some measurements that anyone with a calipers and access to
shifters can figure out.

Campy 10sp has a total cable pull range of about 1.040 inches
Shimano 9sp has a total cable pull range of about .835 inches.

1.040/9=.115*8=.924 (remember 10sp increments 9 times and 9sp increments 8
times)

So using a Campy 10sp lever as a 9sp is going to give you total cable pull
of .924 inches.

..924-.835=.098.

Your going to have a cable pull error of .098 inches which is kind of a lot
given the each shift increment is .115 on the campy lever. That's almost a
whole
gear worth of error over the shift range. This error distance is going to
be further amplified
at the derailleur.

To me this doesn't seem like it would be an acceptable setup. If you want
to run 10sp Campy levers on a 9 speed Shimano you might be best served using
a converter made for doing this like the shiftmate.
http://www.jtekengineering.com/shiftmate.htm

Hope that helps.

Pete



"Eric Lambi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hello folks,
>
> I've read here and several other places that Record 10speed Ergo/RD
> will shift Shimano 9speed cassettes acceptably well. I need a new DA
> 9sp STI and RD, but the Record 10sp stuff seems awfully cool, and
> isn't much more expensive.
>
> So, of those who have tried it, how well does it work compared to
> stock DA9 shifting?
>
> and
>
> Does it improve things at all to replace the loose Shimano spacers
> with Campy 10 spacers?
>
> and
>
> Which chain?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Eric Lambi

 

[Paul Kopit]

On 25 Aug 2004 09:48:59 -0700, [email protected] (Eric Lambi)
wrote:

>I've read here and several other places that Record 10speed Ergo/RD
>will shift Shimano 9speed cassettes acceptably well. I need a new DA
>9sp STI and RD, but the Record 10sp stuff seems awfully cool, and
>isn't much more expensive.
>
>So, of those who have tried it, how well does it work compared to
>stock DA9 shifting?
>
>and
>
>Does it improve things at all to replace the loose Shimano spacers
>with Campy 10 spacers?

I run frequently run one of my bicycles with Campy 10 Ergo and Shimano
12/27 x 9sp cassette. It shifts as well as the same bicycle with a
Campy 12/25 x 10 sp cassette.

I use either an IRD x 10sp or Shimano 9sp chain with either cassette.
The components are Record but my wife's bicycle has Veloce 10 x Campy
pre '91 Chorus rear derailler and it shifts Campy 10 and Shimano 9
fine too.

 

[Pete]

Your going to get quite a range of responses. Some people are demanding
would not be happy at all and others seem to get by without complains. Given
the float in the upper jockey wheel, a lot of sin can be covered up in
system adjustment.

Here are some measurements that anyone with a calipers and access to
shifters can figure out.

Campy 10sp has a total cable pull range of about 1.040 inches
Shimano 9sp has a total cable pull range of about .835 inches.

1.040/9=.115*8=.924 (remember 10sp increments 9 times and 9sp increments 8
times)

So using a Campy 10sp lever as a 9sp is going to give you total cable pull
of .924 inches.

..924-.835=.098.

Your going to have a cable pull error of .098 inches which is kind of a lot
given the each shift increment is .115 on the campy lever. That's almost a
whole gear worth of error over the shift range. This error distance is
going to be further amplified at the derailleur in terms of distance.

To me this doesn't seem like it would be an acceptable setup. If you want
to run 10sp Campy levers on a 9 speed Shimano you might be best served using
a converter made for doing this like the shiftmate.
http://www.jtekengineering.com/shiftmate.htm


Pete

"Eric Lambi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hello folks,
>
> I've read here and several other places that Record 10speed Ergo/RD
> will shift Shimano 9speed cassettes acceptably well. I need a new DA
> 9sp STI and RD, but the Record 10sp stuff seems awfully cool, and
> isn't much more expensive.
>
> So, of those who have tried it, how well does it work compared to
> stock DA9 shifting?
>
> and
>
> Does it improve things at all to replace the loose Shimano spacers
> with Campy 10 spacers?
>
> and
>
> Which chain?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Eric Lambi

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

itcycles-<< I need a new DA
9sp STI and RD, but the Record 10sp stuff seems awfully cool, and
isn't much more expensive.

So, of those who have tried it, how well does it work compared to
stock DA9 shifting? >><BR><BR>

10s ERGO and rear der shifts a shimano 9s cogset/chain VERY well. You will not
notice a difference between that and STI, and you will not have the STI failure
problem.

itcycles<< Does it improve things at all to replace the loose Shimano spacers
with Campy 10 spacers? >><BR><BR>

Not required.


Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

pete-<< To me this doesn't seem like it would be an acceptable setup.
>><BR><BR>

Thanks for all the numbers, but have you tried it?

I have and it works great. As a bike shop, we can't sell 'marginal'
performance, particularly when talking about multi-hundreds of $ equipment.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

 

[Andy M-S]

[email protected] (Eric Lambi) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Hello folks,
>
> I've read here and several other places that Record 10speed Ergo/RD
> will shift Shimano 9speed cassettes acceptably well. I need a new DA
> 9sp STI and RD, but the Record 10sp stuff seems awfully cool, and
> isn't much more expensive.
>
> So, of those who have tried it, how well does it work compared to
> stock DA9 shifting?
>
> and
>
> Does it improve things at all to replace the loose Shimano spacers
> with Campy 10 spacers?
>
> and
>
> Which chain?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Eric Lambi

It worked very well for me...I ran 10s Centaur levers, a 9s Racing
Triple RD, and a Shimano chain (low-end). Worked like a charm, in
fact.

 

[Pete]

Yes, I have tried it and didn't like it. Works find when you adjust to the
center, but I didn't like the response and noise in the chain out toward the
outer gears.

Here are some more numbers to help put things into perspective.

So if the total cable pull difference is .098 inches, that equals 2.5mm.
The tread size & pitch on the derailleur barrel adjusters is m5 x .8. So
2.5mm /.8 = 3.125 turns.

So riding with this setup is the same as riding around with your adjuster
barrel 3.125 turns out of adjustment. If you split the difference it's
going to be 1.56 turns out of adjustment at either end of the cassette.

Personally, I can easily notice when my adjuster barrel is 1/2 turn out of
adjustment!

So if people find riding with a adjuster barrel 1.56 turns out of adjustment
OK, they should also be find with this setup. Your doing exactly the
same thing.

Pete





"Qui si parla Campagnolo " <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> pete-<< To me this doesn't seem like it would be an acceptable setup.
> >><BR><BR>
>
> Thanks for all the numbers, but have you tried it?
>
> I have and it works great. As a bike shop, we can't sell 'marginal'
> performance, particularly when talking about multi-hundreds of $
equipment.
>
> Peter Chisholm
> Vecchio's Bicicletteria
> 1833 Pearl St.
> Boulder, CO, 80302
> (303)440-3535
> http://www.vecchios.com
> "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

 

[Charles Beristain]

Peter
I'm thinking of doing the mt. washington hill climb next year..
from my understanding, I will need a 34 rear cassette and a 32
chainring ... better still a 29 chainring.

I have a cannondale with campy 10 speed except it has the cannondale
integrated BB and the associated cranks.

any thoughts on how to make the conversion? I'm guessing I'll only
need one chain ring in front and maybe only half of the cogs on the
cassette- so I shouldnt' need a long arm derailleur.

Evidently we can remove almost everything from the bike.. including
brakes.

And I can take the crank arm off the cannondale scalpel and put it on
the road bike.. it has a double chainring... 29/44.. that could be a
solution for the chainring part of this problem.

thanks

charlie in ct.

 

[J.V.]

Rather than cable pull, can you tell us what is the cog spacing in mm of the
two different cassettes? I'm curious about the spacing difference of the
entire cassette and of the spacing between each cog. I seem to remember
that the difference of the two 9 speed systems was less than two mm over the
entire cassette. I know that my 9 speed campy shifters and der shift a 9
speed shimano cassette very well.


"Pete" <[email protected]> wrote in message
newsx6Xc.182220$8_6.20673@attbi_s04...
Your going to get quite a range of responses. Some people are demanding
would not be happy at all and others would be happy with about anything.

Here are some measurements that anyone with a calipers and access to
shifters can figure out.

Campy 10sp has a total cable pull range of about 1.040 inches
Shimano 9sp has a total cable pull range of about .835 inches.

1.040/9=.115*8=.924 (remember 10sp increments 9 times and 9sp increments 8
times)

So using a Campy 10sp lever as a 9sp is going to give you total cable pull
of .924 inches.

..924-.835=.098.

Your going to have a cable pull error of .098 inches which is kind of a lot
given the each shift increment is .115 on the campy lever. That's almost a
whole
gear worth of error over the shift range. This error distance is going to
be further amplified
at the derailleur.

To me this doesn't seem like it would be an acceptable setup. If you want
to run 10sp Campy levers on a 9 speed Shimano you might be best served using
a converter made for doing this like the shiftmate.
http://www.jtekengineering.com/shiftmate.htm

Hope that helps.

Pete



"Eric Lambi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hello folks,
>
> I've read here and several other places that Record 10speed Ergo/RD
> will shift Shimano 9speed cassettes acceptably well. I need a new DA
> 9sp STI and RD, but the Record 10sp stuff seems awfully cool, and
> isn't much more expensive.
>
> So, of those who have tried it, how well does it work compared to
> stock DA9 shifting?
>
> and
>
> Does it improve things at all to replace the loose Shimano spacers
> with Campy 10 spacers?
>
> and
>
> Which chain?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Eric Lambi

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

charlie-<< I'm thinking of doing the mt. washington hill climb next year..
from my understanding, I will need a 34 rear cassette and a 32
chainring ... better still a 29 chainring. >><BR><BR>

<< any thoughts on how to make the conversion? >><BR><BR>

Long cage rear der from Campagnolo, a shimano compatible wheel, a shimano 11-34
9s cogset and shimano 9s chain.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

pete-<< So if people find riding with a adjuster barrel 1.56 turns out of
adjustment
OK, they should also be find with this setup. Your doing exactly the
same thing. >><BR><BR>

Ya sure it's not 1.58 turns??

We have done this for riders and racers, for tourists and really picky people
and it works fine.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

 

[John Su]

just got a gunnar roadie with 105 components with bar ends shifters
(anyone use these?!) i'm used to sti, but a long time ago also used
campy.

since i want integrated brake/bar shifters (i like to shift on the
hoods), i was going to get a set of ultegra on ebay.

now you all have me thinking, can i get a campy 10sp set and it will
work fine with the 9speed shimano rear?

can my rear derailleur be shimano 105 or ultegra or xtr for that matter
and work fine? i thought rear derailleur are kind of "dumb" in that
it's up the shifters how much cable's pulled, etc.

thanks,
john

In article <[email protected]>,
Paul Kopit <[email protected]> wrote:

> On 25 Aug 2004 09:48:59 -0700, [email protected] (Eric Lambi)
> wrote:
>
> >I've read here and several other places that Record 10speed Ergo/RD
> >will shift Shimano 9speed cassettes acceptably well. I need a new DA
> >9sp STI and RD, but the Record 10sp stuff seems awfully cool, and
> >isn't much more expensive.
> >
> >So, of those who have tried it, how well does it work compared to
> >stock DA9 shifting?
> >
> >and
> >
> >Does it improve things at all to replace the loose Shimano spacers
> >with Campy 10 spacers?
>
> I run frequently run one of my bicycles with Campy 10 Ergo and Shimano
> 12/27 x 9sp cassette. It shifts as well as the same bicycle with a
> Campy 12/25 x 10 sp cassette.
>
> I use either an IRD x 10sp or Shimano 9sp chain with either cassette.
> The components are Record but my wife's bicycle has Veloce 10 x Campy
> pre '91 Chorus rear derailler and it shifts Campy 10 and Shimano 9
> fine too.
--
____________________________________________
John K. Su mailto:[email protected]
y.edu

 

[Charles Beristain]

On 27 Aug 2004 12:58:57 GMT, [email protected] (Qui si parla
Campagnolo ) wrote:

>Long cage rear der from Campagnolo, a shimano compatible wheel, a shimano 11-34
>9s cogset and shimano 9s chain.

that seems pretty simple .. appreciate the advice

charlie

 

[Charles Beristain]

Peter
two more question please

1)why can't I use my campy neucleon wheel wth the shimano cassette?
are the splines different? ( remember i'm new to campy.. all my MTB
gear is shimano).

2) if i just put on a single chain ring, can I avoid using the long
cage derailleur? if I have a 12-34 cassette i would have a spread of
22. I'm not sure the capability of the short cage der.

thanks
charlie

On 27 Aug 2004 12:58:57 GMT, [email protected] (Qui si parla
Campagnolo ) wrote:

>charlie-<< I'm thinking of doing the mt. washington hill climb next year..
>from my understanding, I will need a 34 rear cassette and a 32
>chainring ... better still a 29 chainring. >><BR><BR>
>
><< any thoughts on how to make the conversion? >><BR><BR>
>
>Long cage rear der from Campagnolo, a shimano compatible wheel, a shimano 11-34
>9s cogset and shimano 9s chain.
>
>Peter Chisholm
>Vecchio's Bicicletteria
>1833 Pearl St.
>Boulder, CO, 80302
>(303)440-3535
>http://www.vecchios.com
>"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

charlie-<< 1)why can't I use my campy neucleon wheel wth the shimano cassette?
are the splines different? ( remember i'm new to campy.. all my MTB
gear is shimano). >><BR><BR>

Splines are different but Campagnolo does make a shimano compatible freehub
body that you can install onto that wheel.

Charlie-<< 2) if i just put on a single chain ring, can I avoid using the long
cage derailleur? if I have a 12-34 cassette i would have a spread of
22. I'm not sure the capability of the short cage der. >><BR><BR>

Probably if you size the chain corrctly but you may have diffuculty keeping the
chain on the single ring if the going gets bumpy w/o a front der or something
to keep the chain on.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

 

[anderson]

itcycles-<< I need a new DA
9sp STI and RD, but the Record 10sp stuff seems awfully cool, and
isn't much more expensive.

So, of those who have tried it, how well does it work compared to
stock DA9 shifting? >><BR><BR>

10s ERGO and rear der shifts a shimano 9s cogset/chain VERY well. You will not
notice a difference between that and STI, and you will not have the STI failure
problem.

I agree with Pete here. I took his advice and bought 10s centaur levers, centaur 10 rear derailuer, to use with ultegra 9s hub, 9s (12-27 cassette),
and shimano 9s chain. It all works perfectly.

Michael Anderson.

 

[Charles Beristain]

peter
thanks... good info as usual.
charlie

 

[Trevor]

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote in message
<[email protected]>...
>charlie-<< 1)why can't I use my campy neucleon wheel wth the shimano
cassette?
>are the splines different? ( remember i'm new to campy.. all my MTB
>gear is shimano). >><BR><BR>
>
>Splines are different but Campagnolo does make a shimano compatible freehub
>body that you can install onto that wheel.
>
>Charlie-<< 2) if i just put on a single chain ring, can I avoid using the
long
>cage derailleur? if I have a 12-34 cassette i would have a spread of
>22. I'm not sure the capability of the short cage der. >><BR><BR>
>
>Probably if you size the chain corrctly but you may have diffuculty keeping
the
>chain on the single ring if the going gets bumpy w/o a front der or
something
>to keep the chain on.
>

If this occurred, it suggests a single pivot mech.

Trevor