Poor misguided Lister Farrar

Discussion in 'The Bike Cafe' started by Fausto Coppied, Feb 28, 2008.

  1. Fausto Coppied

    Fausto Coppied New Member

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    I see on the Canadian cyclist web site forum (www.canadiancyclist.com) Lister Farrar is applauding Pierre Blanchard’s anti-doping work and his role at the Tour of California:

    “I thought it worth noting that CCA President Dr. Pierre Blanchard was the chief anti-doping official at the Tour of California, and a central figure in the new chaperone system the UCI implemented (finally) there.”, wrote Lister Farrar*.

    I wonder if while he was at the big international pro road race in California, Pierre Blanchard asked himself when, if ever, Canada will once again have such an event?

    Lister thinks people should write Pierre Blanchard, the President of the Canadian Cycling Association, if you like what he is doing. I suppose you can write if you don’t like what he is doing as well?

    Lister, what Pierre Blanchard is doing is continuing to oversee the demise of the Canadian Cycling Association. And I had such high hopes for him. Instead of being off in California working for a big race he should be back in Canada looking after his own problems. For instance, it appears Pierre has not bothered to post his Annual Report, none of the 2007 Financials of the CCA are posted on their web site, neither are those of 2006. What is posted goes back to 2005!

    I mean the sport is doing so poorly across Canada you have to wonder if Blanchard, the old Separatist, is trying to kill it. Blanchard is responsible, along with his predecessor Bill Kinash ( I think Kinash’s excuse was just pure incompetence) for hiring Lorraine Lafrenière as Director General of the CCA. Lafrenière has no cycling background whatsoever. She has no background in organizing any kind of sporting event at all. She came for a Coaching Association which really does very little in terms of marketing or organizing a sport itself. Blanchard, along with Kinash overlooked Farrar for the CCA leadership position, twice, I think. At least Lister would have known something about the sport going into the job, unlike Lafrenière who knew nothing. Canada has to be the only cycling federation in the world to appoint as its top employee somebody without any experience in the sport. Only in Canada, where mediocrity is rewarded with promotion, could such stupidity be possible.

    Lafrenière is suppose to have a public relations and marketing background, yet the CCA has been devoid of any marketing results for five years and the communications have been atrocious. For months and it appeared the CCA was dead in the water, nothing seemed to be happening.

    As spring quickly approaches there are no new events , no new sponsors, next to nothing at all happening, except maybe a law suit for the mismanagement of the 2007 BMX World championships in British Columbia, another fiasco initiated and overseen by Bill Kinash resulting in the loss of hundreds of thousands of dollars and creditors left holding the bag. Like CBC television who are owed over $40,000, like many others.

    How Lister Farrar can find anything to applaud Blanchard for is beyond me. Lister must need more grant money or have some new program to sell the CCA. One of his pet projects, like Sprockids, which has yielded next to nothing (they had about 10 (ten) kids at the “National” Cycling Center in Hamilton, ON, pop. 500,000!), must be coming up for renewal.

    Lister you are now officially part of the problem. You have been for awhile. Do you ever wonder when that happened? Was it just a slow, slide down a slippery slope or did you wake up one morning and realize it all of a sudden?

    Too bad, it is really such a shame to see so much potential go down the drain.

    *While I have known Lister Farrar for at least 20 years for those of you that don’t: http://www.zoominfo.com/Search/PersonDetail.aspx?PersonID=-333385



    You can email Lister at [email protected], Pierre Blanchard at [email protected], I think Lister had it wrong with [email protected]

     
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  2. Fausto Coppied

    Fausto Coppied New Member

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    Too bad Lister doesn't want to discuss this on this forum and as many of you know I am banned from CanadianCyclist and Pedal Magazine, I dobt anybody can really say why , btu that's beside the point.

    Anyway here, Lister responds:


    Hi all:

    Sorry to spam you all, and for getting sucked in to Ed’s rant, but I felt I needed to clarify a few things in Ed’s note. (Talk about the kiss of death and damned by faint praise, all in the same message.)

    I think Pierre deserves credit for tackling a difficult job, and for his previous stands on doping re Jeanson. Because I don’t want cycling to run itself into the ground, and I think it is, though for different reasons than Ed. One thing Ed and I agree on is the sport needs leadership; up until now, there haven’t been many willing to lead on doping. I don’t think there’s much point in hard-selling the sport in Canadian corporate boardrooms until we have this doping issue under control. Men’s pro road is the worst offender Ed, and as a pro road advocate, you have never acknowledged this. So from that perspective, I suggest Pierre is doing exactly what Canadian, and indeed world cycling needs. And at least one thing we can be sure of, Lorraine has had nothing to do with the doping mess that cycling has, which is a big step up in my books than standing by tolerating it. Can you say the same Ed?

    And to clarify further Ed’s imperfect memory:

    I supported Sprockids at first on principle; Doug’s program has lots of good ideas and approaches to kid’s cycling, and I have organized an elementary school club for five years with 50+ kids a year based on several of his ideas

    I was offered and started a contract regarding Sprockids with the CCA, but pulled out when the project was going against the direction of the committee I chaired at the time. I did not receive any compensation

    I have finished my terms as Development Committee chair, and did not run again

    I don’t want to run again

    I am not seeking any work or money for anything from the CCA or any organization with which it has influence

    I am not seeking any position with the CCA



    Thanks

    Lister
     
  3. Fausto Coppied

    Fausto Coppied New Member

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    Lister, I have acknowledged doping is a problem in cycling as in ALL OTHER SPORTS, especially pro sports. As the US Congress is finding out it is just as bad, if not worse, in baseball as anywhere else.

    Sure, Blanchard's anti-doping efforts are welcome but if something is not done soon to improve the state of competitive cycling in Canada doping will be a moot point because the sport will not exist.

    I was amused by Lister’s comment, “And at least one thing we can be sure of, Lorraine has had nothing to do with the doping mess that cycling has, which is a big step up in my books than standing by tolerating it”. Is that it, Lister, that’s all you can offer to support her role in the sport??? Geesh!!!

    The sport needs leadership on all kinds of things Lister and doping is just one of them. Where is the leadership on all the other problems?

    As for my memory Lister, it is anything but imperfect. Sure, I’m aware of the Sprockids programs and its success in getting little kids involved in BC. That is about the only place it has succeeded. We know how dismally it failed in Hamilton. Lister and I have always disagreed on what Sprockids will accomplish even if successful. Getting 500,000 little kids involved in a sport doesn’t mean it will be successful in terms of sponsorship or international results, just look at Soccer Canada. It has all kinds of little kids playing, 500,000 + but once those kids grow up they have little or nothing to do with the sport and sponsors at a pro level in Canada even less, except for Saputo in Montreal but Quebec is always the exception isn’t it!

    If my memory serves, I have emails I can pull up from Lister from three years ago or so offering me information and insider knowledge for me to use because he didn’t want to say anything himself because he had certain projects he needed support from Kinash with. I can post those emails if Lister’s memory needs some jarring.

    If my memory also serves Lister had some on-line training programs, volunteer management software and other software packages he was offering to CCA and Hamilton 2003. So, while he may say he no longer has any irons in the fire at the CCA right now that was certainly not the case in the past. Lister, like Pierre Hutsebaut, Rob Jones and many others, he was not above using the CCA to butter his bread when possible.

    I’m not sure where Lister and Tim stand on that $10,000 or so they owed the CCA in the past? Maybe Lister can fill us in?

    While Lister is not now running for any positions with the CCA now he did apply as Executive Director when Steve Lacelle was selected (another guy with no cycling background that lasted about 18 months, just as I predicted. If we are lucky Lorraine Lafrenière will only last that long too)

    Lister, keep in mind while you think my memory might not be perfect, it is broad and deep and I never throw anything away. I can look into my files to back up every statement I make and more. I don’t only know where the bodies are buried, I’ve got roads maps to get you there……..

    As I stated before, Lister could have played a role in changing things, he could have spoken out, as could have Bret Stewart and few others. They all chose to remain silent or worse collaborate rather than speaking out and changing things.

    That is how and why we now find our sport in this very sorry state. Keep in mind the best thing Lister Farrar could offer about Lorraine Lafrenière was that she not part of the doping problem. Boy, that’s reassuring. Is there anything positive that she can actually do? We all know there are plenty of things she hasn't done, doesn’t do or didn’t get involved in. A lack of involvement seems to be her foremost characteristic and only attribute.

    What an embarrassing mess. What has been done to the sport of cycling in Canada by bureaucrats and pencil pushers is not insult and injury to the riders, an insult and injury.
     
  4. Fausto Coppied

    Fausto Coppied New Member

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    Subject: Lister asks for a retraction.


    Lister has asked I retract the comment that either he or Tim (his) brother owe(d) the CCA about $10,000 from unpaid organizer fees stemming from the old Canadian Tire Series & Cup.

    Since I do not have any written proof to this, it came up in a conversation with Pierre Hutsebaut back in 2003 who told me they needed to pay that money back before they could organize new events and we all know Hutsebaut himself is not the most reliable source of information, and since I don’t care one way or another, sure I’ll acquiesce to Lister’s request.


    So, Lister or Tim do not owe the CCA $10,000.

    Of course, if I anybody has information to the contrary just let us know.

    Obviously, I stand by all my other comments.

    Ed A.

    From: Lister Farrar [mailto:[email protected]]
    Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 3:31 PM
    To: 'Ed Arzouian'
    Subject: RE: President Blanchard overseeing the continued demise



    Great. Tell everyone I owe the CCA. Thanks for that. By the way, Tim is not aware of any debts, he or any company he worked for owe. And he’s organized races every year since the early 1980’s. If you care to retract, I’ll start taking part in your discussions in a civil tone, if you can do the same.

    From: Ed Arzouian
    Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 11:00 AM
    To: 'Lister Farrar'
    Subject: RE: President Blanchard overseeing the continued demise [/font]




    I guess maybe it was not you but just Tim. At one point he or his management/event company owed the CCA about $10,000 or more, according to Huts. He wasn’t allowed to organize events for awhile. Maybe that was worked out maybe just forgotten… I’m not sure. That’s why I asked.

    From: Lister Farrar
    Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 1:54 PM
    To: 'Ed Arzouian'
    Subject: RE: President Blanchard overseeing the continued demise [/font]




    What are you talking about, owing the CCA money?
    L
     
  5. Lister Farrar

    Lister Farrar New Member

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    Welcome to the battle of misguided views. Here's my argument for appreciating Pierre's apparent ( I haven't spoken with him, just reading the news) emphasis on the doping issue. Unlike the 1980 and 1990's, the lid is off now. Everyone knows that the sport, indeed most pro sports are rife with cheating and dangerous practices. It was secret until recently. Some even justified it as part of being a profesional, as part of managing an investment in a top athlete. Total bullshit, in my opinion. Dead guys are dead guys, the rules still forbid it, and the sport was looking the other way until very recently.

    It is the most important issue in road cycling, and maybe even in xc-mtb. No matter how much effort the leadership of the CCA puts into developing the sport, (if indeed the CCA is even the animal for development, which we can discuss elsewhere), they are going to be confronted by corporations and governments that want to know what's being done about it. Dick Pound, love him or hate him, has made sure that everyone knows. Personally I think he did us a huge favour.

    So Pierre tackling doping in his strong but diplomatic way is the best thing he could be doing for cycling. We don't need another Michael Ball splashing his money around and defying the spirit of the doping rules by hiring implicated riders. We need people who will implement the anti-doping rules, including when the neanderthals like Quick Step complain, so everyone knows something is being done about it. We need more Slipstreams, more Millars, more Tufts, Kabushs and Sydors who will stand up and say they are about doing it clean.

    Then we can get back to arguing over the national competitive structure (Yes we ned one to give teams a stage, yes, we need city centre racing for the same reason, yes we need TV (what do you think of the COC cable idea?), etc. But only then, in my opinion.

    But in case you want to blame me for not doing all this for you, my priorities right now are my kids, and I can serve that best through ensuring they get appropriate sport experiences as they grow up. Maybe when they've moved out I can throw myself under the critics' wheels again. Until then I will cheer the efforts of guys like Pierre.
     
  6. Fausto Coppied

    Fausto Coppied New Member

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    Lister, you pointed out yourself Pierre Blanchard was just recently working the Tour of California.

    Have you seen how big that race is now?

    Does it look like it is having sponsorship issues?

    WHEN WILL YOU STOP BEING AN APOLOGIST FOR THE SPORT IN CANADA?

    The reason the sport is lagging in Canada is because, as you also said yoruself, there is no leadership. The Directors of the Canadian Cycling Association have for the last five years hired people to run the sport WITH ZERO CYCLING EXPERIENCE!!!! ZERO EXPERIENCE. Nto a little, mind you, but none.

    What is it about that you don't get?

    Where has such stupidity taken place in any other cycling federation in the industrialized world? Where?

    How are you going to sell a sport with people in charge who have no understanding or appreciation of the sport?

    Other countries, even non-cycling countries lie the US, are finding BIG sponsors. Canada used to have some. Dorel Cororation of Montreal owns Schwinn, GT, Mongoose, Cannondale and I don't even know how many other bicycle brands, what are they doing for the sport???

    Now there is nothing in Caandian cycling. Crumbs.

    It is not doping's fault.

    It is the people in charge.

    Doping is NOT the biggest issue in cycling.
     
  7. Fausto Coppied

    Fausto Coppied New Member

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    I'm still waiiting for Lister Farrar, a guy who has been around cycling for for more thna 30 years, to tell us of any cycling federation in the world that put someone in charge of their sport that had absolutely no cycling experience going into the job......



    So far the only positive comment Lister has been able to offer about CCA Director General Lorraine Lafreniere is that she was not involved in doping. The only way Lister Farrar's knows that is because Lorraine Lafreniere was not involved in any sport whatsoever prior to the working for the CCA.

    Is coaching a sport?
     
  8. Jasmineminor

    Jasmineminor New Member

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    M. Farrar will most likely not be back. No matter WHAT he says or how he replies M. Arzouian will turn it back around to blaming the CCA and M. Kinash.

    M. Arzouian has never done anything in a volunteer capacity for cycling in Canada.... has not run a team in over 15 years, has been fired from every position in cycling he has ever held.. But STILL feels that he (authoritatively) can comment on everyone who now is involved with cycling. nice resume, HMMMM!

    Amgen signed on for a 3 year deal. It is gone in 2009, and no new sponsor has stepped up. So we will see won't we. The race has lost $$ each year. This year they charged the press to be on motos and sold VIP rides to anyone who could pay.

    The Tour of Georgia has a new main sponsor every year. Yearly there is talk that the race will not go on.

    The tour of Utah never got off the ground and other big events stagger along or close up shop.

    Back in Canada Team Symmetrics is having sponsor woes, with some concern that the team will be gone midsummer.

    But ALL of this is the CCA's fault.. right M. Arazoian?
     
  9. Fausto Coppied

    Fausto Coppied New Member

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    It is not surprising Symmetrics is having problems.

    They are a Canadian-based team with Canadian-based sponsors and they seldom races in Canada because there are no events worthy of the team.

    That is the CCA's fault.

    What do you expect when you put people in charge that have never had anything to do with the sport prior to being hired to run it? It is total stupidity.

    Of course it is an absolute lie that I never volunteered in cycling. I volunteered at numerous events in Southern Ontario in 2003 while at Hamilton 2003. In fact, I was just about the only staffer there that did.

    I ran a team eleven years ago and I ran a Women's Road World Cup, the only one in North America in 1999, nine years ago. In 1998 I volunteered at the event. I worked for Tour Trans Canada in 2001, I believe. I ran the Canadian National Road Championships and worked for the World Road Championships in 2003, five years ago.

    Let's hear when and where Jasmine ever did anything for cycling.

    Tell us......

    As for Lister, I couldn't care less if he comes back here or not. He has done nothing of consequence to improve things for years. He is now part of the problem. He does not dare to complain because he needs ties to the CCA for one kind of personal profit or another, whether it is on-line training and software packages or training centre funding or Sprockids or whatever.

    Furthermore, you claimed Lister Farrar was an oportunist with regard to the old Canada Cup Series, you claim "The CCA basically went along for the ride. Lister (a good bureaucrat) rode it well.. for as long as it lasted."

    Do you care what he does?
     
  10. Lister Farrar

    Lister Farrar New Member

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    HTML:
     
    [quote="Fausto Coppied"]It is not surprising Symmetrics is having problems.
     
    They are a Canadian-based team with Canadian-based sponsors and they seldom races in Canada because there are no events worthy of the team.
     
    That is the CCA's fault.
    [/HTML]

    The teams owner says it's the Cdn $, here: http://www.canadiancyclist.com/default2.html
    ..."However," Cunningham continues "in my business, forestry [Westlam is his family company], we are devastated right now by the rise in the Canadian dollar, the whole forestry industry is in a tough spot. We [Westlam] will survive, but right now we are unable to continue contributing cash like before."

    But I do think the CCA could do more as far as the national calendar, but I'm thinking about the level below what Ed is. The top level of pro events have always been run by entrepreneurs who don't need to wait for a CCA program, or are in jurisdictions where grant money is available. But it's up to the CCA to decide it's priorities, not me.

    HTML:
    He does not dare to complain because he needs ties to the CCA for one kind of personal profit or another, whether it is on-line training and software packages or training centre funding or Sprockids or whatever.
    Well, it's true I do work in sport, and word gets around if you're a whiner with no particular value to offer. I think I can do more working with people than against them. Your view seems to differ; how's it going so far?

    HTML:
    Furthermore, you claimed Lister Farrar was an oportunist with regard to the old Canada Cup Series, you claim "The CCA basically went along for the ride. Lister (a good bureaucrat) rode it well.. for as long as it lasted." 
    Now what are you talking about Ed? There's no such quote in this discussion.
     
  11. Fausto Coppied

    Fausto Coppied New Member

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    You are correct Lister, that quote from her was in another thread where Jasmine was bad-mouthing you.

    The poster in question is continually incorrect and always shifting his/her opinion and flip-flopping, mainly to contradict whatever I say for no reasn other than to do so.

    As for your question, I'd say my complaining is going about as well as your ass-kissing. But I can look myself in the mirror in the morning, never having sold out to anyone or anything.
     
  12. holli

    holli New Member

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    Good morning girls and boys.

    I still can't agree with Ed about the claim he makes that one would need experience in cycling to be able to market and sell cycling. All the marketing jobs I've had have been such that I've had zero previous experience of the product. You just need to learn about the product. If people at CCA can't learn about cycling, they should have balls to step down and let someone else do the job and find a job that better their competences.

    Good example is our (MB) new ED. He has lots of experience in other sport but he didn't know a thing about cycling. He has been learning and asking questions all the time and he is doing good job...board of directors just needs to tell him what is expected of him and he will do it. It's not rocket science, if you are competent in any business you will do well in cycling as well. Lorraine Lafreniere and some others at CCA just don't seem to have what it takes to run a successful business/organization and it has nothing to do with cycling experience.

    About doping. Is doping really a problem in Canada? Only higher level cycling scene is MTB Canada Cup so the possible doping issue must be biggest there. If there is no doping problem in Canada then why it's CCA's job to do anything about it. CCA should let others worry about pro's and concentrate in its own core functions (being an international pro doping police isn't CCA core functions IMHO).

    Bashing Quick Step for their critizism against "war against terror-like" anti-doping measures and Michael Ball for having OP riders in his team and at the same time praising Slipstream for their "show not really go" anti-doping program is pretty stupid. Don't get me wrong here. I'm against doping and mainly because I'm still competitive (or at least I'm telling myself that I can still race) and I don't want to have the pressure of doping on me. It's just very naive to think that some riders, no matter how talented, would be competitive against guys on EPO or blood doping and other drugs. If Slipstream is really a clean team and they will be competitive this season, then other riders are clean as well.

    As an aspiring race organizer I have very hard time connecting the dots between hardline anti-doping measures and benefit to cycling. If I organize a bigger event I risk or "risk" having UCI, WADA and that canadian agency come over and run their tests. They won't inform me beforehand, they just show up, do their tests and hand me the bill. If all three show up it would cost me at least $15 000...You know...that's a lot of money. That's the total money I could scrap together for a race so I would need to double the budget in order to be safe and that's basically impossible task at the moment.

    Canadian racing scene is dying and CCA just stands by and lets it happen. Well I'm trying to do something even if I don't have enough volunteers to organize a road race. Ed's one favorite is bashing other provinces for not having any major races but when your active cycling community is 100-200 it's not too easy to get things going.
     
  13. Fausto Coppied

    Fausto Coppied New Member

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    Holli, at least your new Exec. Dir. has some sports experience. Lorraine Lafreniere does not even have that, she came from a Coaches' Association which is more like a trade association than sport. They do not have events for example.

    You may think marketing cycling is like marketing anything esle. Certainly basic marketing experience will help but cycling is not your typical sport.

    First, keep in mind you have really six disciplines; road, track, mountain bike, BMX, cyclocross and downhill. Each of those disciplines has in turn different events specific to it (eg. road: crits, TTs, point-to-point, circuits, stage races, etc.) . All are very different and sold and marketed in a different way to differnt people. You have numerous different governing bodies, provinces, other federations, UCI, IOC, Sport Canada, etc, etc.

    Secondly, most people in corporate marketing are not familiar with the sport. They do not know what they can get, what they need or how it even works in most cases. They have to be trained themselves and that's not easy to do if the sport's own marketing person is learning the ropes at the same time.

    Third, there is not the familiar playing field or arena setting of most sports.

    Fourth, the media needs to spoon fed to do anything.

    I could go on but there is a big difference selling cycling compared to other sports.

    That is sad to hear Manitoba now has only 200 people in what you are calling the active cycling community. They use to have that many riders in one category in one event in the "good old days".


    Doping is just Lister Farrar's latest excuse for the lack of leadership in the sport in Canada.
     
  14. Lister Farrar

    Lister Farrar New Member

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    C'mon Ed. You started this discussion about leadership in the CCA because I congratulated Pierre on seeing a difficult situation through. That's a leap right there. Remember I managed the doping control program at the CCA and I know the grief you can get for it.

    As for it not being a problem Holli, I think you're overlooking new conditions in the world's view of doping and cycling. The US justice department is going after cyclist Tammy Thomas for perjery in the Balco case. If convicted, that will mean prison for her. UNESCO has an antidoping policy now, to help national governments agree to the WADA code. The issue never reached that level of government before.

    As for CCA's role, UCI president McQuaid is elected by about 50-100 national association presidents like Pierre Blanchard who go to the UCI congress. If they don't care, he won't. That's why we had Hein VerDRUGgen for more than 20 years, all the while putting his blind eye to his telescope on doping. No-one gave a shit, so neither did he, including when Steve Bauer lost out to a doping Delgado in the 1988 Tour.

    By the way, VerDRUGgen is a marketing guy going back to the superdoping Mars-Flandria team of Pollentier, the de Vlaemincks and Maertens, all busted more than once. I'm not saying all marketing folks are corrupt, but if that's your only focus, you eventually end up with people like Congress and the UN breathing down your neck. Even the worst marketing guy knows that you can't keep selling caviar if it's really dogfood in the tin.

    So it's arguable (I have no first hand knowledge of any discussions), that Blanchard expressing a position on anti-doping (Jeanson) and implementing controls (T of C) is actually helping Canada by helping the UCI with it's biggest problem. And it's definitely putting a good light on the CCA in Canadian corporate boardrooms who won't have missed Telekom's and Discovery's exit from the sport.

    I do agree that we could use some emphasis on domestic high level racing. I'd love to see televised national series again. But my thanking Pierre for having some courage on doping, in a sport that hasn't had any balls to tackle, is an entirely different issue.
     
  15. Fausto Coppied

    Fausto Coppied New Member

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    Lister, cycling has been going after performance enhancing substances for at least a few years now. That's more that other sports have done.


    Furthermore, pro cycling was targeted by WADA because it was an easy mark, without riders'(players') union and ownership groups. Even Steve Bauer commented on that, remember?

    My criticism of your remark was that Pierre Blanchard should be home in Canada trying to set up our own Tours (selling the sport) rather than working them in foreign countries. He is the President of the CCA now, not a mere Commissaire.
     
  16. Lister Farrar

    Lister Farrar New Member

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    Athletics has had better dope testing for years. And they marshall athletes to testing. In euro pro cycling they radio the whole caravan, put up signs, and riders get hours notice, with no supervision. XC ski has had testing with marshals, and the political courage to take away medals from the Russians that finished ahead of Scott in 2002, even when the IOC didn't want to. One of the Russions didn't even test positive until after Scott's race (ie a false negative).

    On the other hand cycling was the second last sport to sign the WADA code, is only now trying out marshals as required by the WADA code since 1999, has notice for hematocrit testing that allows dilution, then topping up before races (as Dr. Stephen Prentice testified before LA silenced him), and did nothing for more than 10 years when young men were dying from clogged hearts in the 90's.

    Steve asked why WADA didn't test the NHL, apparently not aware that WADA had no jurisdiction over the Nor-am pro sports because they are not affiliated to the Olympic movement, other than when they go to Olympics, and they are tested. I don't think he was fully informed. I think WADA has influenced the US government, and we saw doping mentioned in Bush's state of the union address, and now with congressional hearings. Pound pointed out the feeble efforts of the pro leagues which enabled the enquiries that are now happening.

    Cycling was an easy mark because doping was rife in it. There has been no Festina in any other sport. No Fuentes. No Manzano. We have to stop pointing fingers and realize in the past (McQuaid is much better than his predeccessor, but he had a long way to go) we have been really bad at controlling this. Maybe the worst sport other than pro wrestling. I had a tour of the Spanish doping lab in 90 or 91, and the director said the worst sports then were bodybuilding and cycling. 17 years ago.

    Pierre has been a commissaire for many years, he's not going to drop that completely. We should be happy he'll take on the presidency, and criticism, as well as officiate and maintain his career. It's a great way for him to know what is going on around the world; those other countries and races pay his expenses, besides the advantages of confronting doping.

    Anyway, lets leave Pierre because you're going to accuse me of sucking up to him. Let's talk about something else.

    Like how about that national calendar? What kind of freeze is on CCA staff and committees, when they are reluctant to call up organizers and ask them to do a certain level of race and build a series? The original Canada Cup (not the Canadian Tire crit series) was nothing more than poltical will and staff time to ask organizers to meet some standards and be part of a series. I got lots of criticism for that (favouring provinces, cancelled races, races that missed meeting some standards.) But we had a series of races that either had happened only on the provincial calendars, or not at all. MTB has a good Cup series. What is the political climate that is preventing that happening again? And please, let's not make it personal. Staff have changed several times; it's political will, not personality.

    L
     
  17. Fausto Coppied

    Fausto Coppied New Member

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    Geezus, Lister, it is amazing you get anything done the way you get bogged down in minutiae. You are worried about doping marshals?? You think doping marshals are holding the sport back.

    Get a grip, man!!!


    Furthermore, we’ve had marshals at our race for years. We had them at the Women’s World Road Cup in Montreal in 1999 we had them in Hamilton in 2003. We even had them on bikes so they could follow the riders if they rode away

    Give it a break.

    As for the freeze or whatever you want to call it on the CCA. I’m sure what you are referring to. I don’t think the small staff at the CCA now has any idea to how to organize a simple race, never mind a national series. Those people are having trouble to keep their heads above water even in the off season.

    THEY ARE INCOMPTENT!!!!


    Look at the due diligence e and financial, look at the annual reports. Nothing has been posted or made public or available to the general public since 2005 or 2006!


    When will you stop apologizing for mediocrity and mismanagement? Why not name names. Kinash was utterly incompetent. Steve Lacelle and Kim Sebrango had no business being hired by the CCA in the first place and it is a good thing they resigned or were fired.

    Lorraine Lafrenière should do the same.
     
  18. holli

    holli New Member

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    As a rider with european background I must say that Listers claims match very well with pre-Festina time (as far as I know since I was last year junior in -98). WADA doesn't care about doping problem, WADA cares about their own funding and they try to be as visible as possible. Beating the only pro sport that can't really hit back is very good tactic for gaining visibility. If WADA would really care about doping problem in sport, they would do much more with amateurs.

    No other sport than cycling needs to deal with odd hour tests, police pressure, random border controls just because you happen to have racing bikes on the roof of your car or travel with a bike bag. In fact...in France customs random checks even teams travelling domestically.

    Sure UCI didn't react to cyclist deaths in 90's, but then again, orienteering, soccer, athletics, ice hockey, nordic skiing etc. sports still don't react to athletes dying on the field and suffering from various health problems. Some of these are too small and some too powerful for WADA to pick a fight with.

    And there is Fuentes in other sports, in fact it's the same Fuentes who was in cycling. For some weird reason only cyclists were picked from Fuentes' list and others were forgotten.

    It's all about the money.

    Ed -> If a marketing person from business world couldn't do good job in cycling it's not because he/she wouldn't know the sport, it would be just because he/she would be incompetent in marketing and should look for some alternative career anyway. Cycling isn't rocket science and if you are good in marketing in other businesses you can do good job in cycling as well. Cycling isn't some weird science comparable to alchemy. If someone who claims to be marketing professional can't figure out how to market cycling, they won't have much to offer in marketing field in other businesses either.

    Manitoba has lots of potential and more kids interested in entering the sport than we can take in. Only problem is that people responsible of kids programs are very seldom interested in keeping the kids in the sport and rather let them go to other sports than work together with other cycling programs. Crazy isn't it?
     
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