poormans ultrasonic chain/parts cleaner

Discussion in 'Recumbent bicycles' started by Bill B, Jan 22, 2003.

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  1. Bill B

    Bill B Guest

    bike chain cleaner tools,plastic bottle shake method!!!!!!! This is how I clean my chain and parts
    too.Cheaper than the chain cleaner tool.Easy to make and use.Less messy and less of a hassle than
    the bottle shake method.Works great.take a look at the self explanatory pics at
    http://community.webshots.com/user/recumbentbill look for poormans ultrasonic cleaner
     
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  2. Jerry Rhodes

    Jerry Rhodes Guest

    Bill,

    I love your innovative nature. It looks like a great improvement on the "armstrong" method I use. I
    am going to cobble me up one like it.

    After I have "simple greened" my chains I lower them (carefully) into a yard sale Fry Baby that has
    parafin wax and ATF in it. When the chain quits bubbling and foaming I know it is "done". All of the
    water has been driven out by the hot oil and every link has wax and ATF (for rust proofing) in every
    nook and cranny.

    Jerry
     
  3. Don

    Don Guest

    Seems like a lot of work to go through when you could just set the pot/bucket on top of a washer or
    dryer and do the laundry. For those who must frequent the laurdromat and would like to build their
    own, I suggest an old electric pad sander (NOT A BELT SANDER) might be easier to find than a
    massager. Also, I would bend some screen to sit slightly above the bottom. That would keep the chain
    out of the heaviest sand and metal filings that would shake out. Don
     
  4. Doug Goncz

    Doug Goncz Guest

    Nice rig. But ultrasonic cleaners do have the advantage of causing cavitation in inaccesible areas,
    which can eject dirt. I don't know if using such on a chain would be worthwhile.

    Yours,

    Doug Goncz, Replikon Research, Seven Corners, VA (truncate pee dot mil antispam for mail)
    http://users.aol.com/DGoncz http://groups.google.com/groups?as_q=DGoncz "Function, Funding, Form,
    Fit, and Finish"
     
  5. A&B

    A&B Guest

    Jerry, Marvel Mystery Oil also works well for rust proofing. Used to use it in the kero parts
    cleaner for transmissions to keep the stuff from fuzzing over between and rebuilding.

    Jerry Rhodes wrote:
    >
    > Bill,
    >
    > I love your innovative nature. It looks like a great improvement on the "armstrong" method I use.
    > I am going to cobble me up one like it.
    >
    > After I have "simple greened" my chains I lower them (carefully) into a yard sale Fry Baby that
    > has parafin wax and ATF in it. When the chain quits bubbling and foaming I know it is "done". All
    > of the water has been driven out by the hot oil and every link has wax and ATF (for rust proofing)
    > in every nook and cranny.
    >
    > Jerry
     
  6. Bill B

    Bill B Guest

    [email protected] (Jerry Rhodes) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > Bill,
    >
    > I love your innovative nature. It looks like a great improvement on the "armstrong" method I use.
    > I am going to cobble me up one like it.
    >
    > After I have "simple greened" my chains I lower them (carefully) into a yard sale Fry Baby that
    > has parafin wax and ATF in it. When the chain quits bubbling and foaming I know it is "done". All
    > of the water has been driven out by the hot oil and every link has wax and ATF (for rust proofing)
    > in every nook and cranny.
    >
    > Jerry
    Thanks Jerry & Rorschandt for the nice reply. Jerry---- ATF is automatic transmission fluid right?
    What is the ratio of parafin wax to ATF cheers Bill
     
  7. Tho X. Bui

    Tho X. Bui Guest

    Doug Goncz wrote:
    >
    > Nice rig. But ultrasonic cleaners do have the advantage of causing cavitation in inaccesible
    > areas, which can eject dirt. I don't know if using such on a chain would be worthwhile.

    Do remember that a true ultrasonic cleaner and aqueous solutions can be very bad for aluminum parts
    because of hydrogen embrittlement. Toss in a piece of foil, let it run for 15 minutes and you'll
    find it disintegrated.

    Tho
     
  8. Jerry Rhodes

    Jerry Rhodes Guest

    > Jerry---- ATF is automatic transmission fluid right? What is the ratio of parafin wax to ATF

    Bill,

    I don't know the exact ratios but I sense that it is about 10 parafin to 1 automatic transmission
    fluid . (I'm going to try the parafin avec Marvel Mystery oil next)

    In reality I just kept adding a bit of ATF until I could feel the "oiliness" when I rubbed the
    cooled parafin in the fry-daddy.

    By the way, do this trick well away from anything you don't want to burn down.

    I lowered a chain too quickly and I managed to get "ignition" from somewhere and boy did I have a
    neat faux oil field fire on my hands.

    Jerry
     
  9. On Wed, 22 Jan 2003 05:42:27 GMT, "Tho X. Bui" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >Do remember that a true ultrasonic cleaner and aqueous solutions can be very bad for aluminum parts
    >because of hydrogen embrittlement. Toss in a piece of foil, let it run for 15 minutes and you'll
    >find it disintegrated.

    Do you have a cite for this? I tried to look into this and found no concrete information. At work we
    use ultrasonic cleaners to clean aluminum components and nobody seems to know about this danger, if
    it exists at all.

    Ken Kobayashi [email protected]
     
  10. Rorschandt

    Rorschandt Guest

    Ken Kobayashi <[email protected]> wrote in
    news:[email protected]t:

    > On Wed, 22 Jan 2003 05:42:27 GMT, "Tho X. Bui" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>Do remember that a true ultrasonic cleaner and aqueous solutions can be very bad for aluminum
    >>parts because of hydrogen embrittlement. Toss in a piece of foil, let it run for 15 minutes and
    >>you'll find it disintegrated.
    >
    > Do you have a cite for this? I tried to look into this and found no concrete information. At work
    > we use ultrasonic cleaners to clean aluminum components and nobody seems to know about this
    > danger, if it exists at all.
    >
    > Ken Kobayashi [email protected]
    >

    Although I am certainly no expert, nor even well versed on the subject, I can find only two
    references to hydrogen embrittlement of aluminum. Always mentioned are high tensile steels, and
    especially those that contain nickel. Apparently, this is a subject wherein a consensus has not been
    reached.In all but one article,ultrasonics are not mentioned, only corrosion, and most often
    circumstances of plating baths. I quote the article that mentions aluminum and titanium:

    > Hydrogen Embrittlement: A General Observation
    > Dr. Paul Ray, FIMF, London, England When atomic hydrogen enters steel and some other metals (such
    > as aluminum
    and titanium alloys), it can cause loss of ductility or load-carrying ability, cracking (usually as
    submicroscopic cracks) or sudden catastrophic failures well below the yield strength or even the
    normal design strength for the alloys. This phenomenon often occurs in alloys that show no
    significant loss in ductility when measured by conventional tensile tests, and is frequently
    referred to as hydrogen-induced delayed brittle failure, hydrogen stress cracking or hydrogen
    embrittlement (HE). HE can also be observed in very clean iron and steel. Even mild steel and dead
    mid steel are considered to be susceptible under certain conditions. Because of the complexity of
    the problem, however, the results of research differ considerably from batch to batch of the same
    material, from material to material, from laboratory to laboratory, from one test to another, and so
    on. Considerable research has been carried out in the past 40–50 years with inconclusive and often
    confusing results. The potential hazards of HE from the electro- and autocatalytic plating processes
    of high-strength carbon steels have long been recognized in the plating industry, and in pre- and
    post-plating heat treatment. Some test methods are specified in International Standards. These
    standards, based on research and field work, merit recognition from the plating industry and will be
    discussed in this paper.
    >>

    The second article specifically mentions the "aluminum foil test" and was found at
    http://aec.army.mil/usaec/technology/p2compliance10.html

    > Coupling (or the transfer of energy) between the transducers and the
    liquid medium is critical. A quick test that can be conducted to determine if the intensity of the
    cavitation is adequate to provide aggressive cleaning action is the aluminum foil erosion test. To
    conduct this test, simply submerge a 0.001-in. thick piece of aluminum foil in the tank while it is
    operating for 30 sec. A good aggressive ultrasonic tank will cause holes to form in the foil. This
    test also is useful in determining where any dead zones may occur in the tank. To ensure that parts
    are not left in dead zones during cleaning, it is advisable to rotate the parts in the tank.
    >

    As far as Bill's HomeMade ultraSonic Cleaner, I believe it is likely sonic, rather than ultrasonic.
    One might be able to determine a rough estimate by consulting the label on the massager and
    identifying the rotational speed of the motor. Sonic cleaners are quite effective, so I have no
    doubts that Bill's cleaner does a fine job.

    happy trails, rorschandt
     
  11. Tho X. Bui

    Tho X. Bui Guest

    Ken Kobayashi wrote:
    >
    > On Wed, 22 Jan 2003 05:42:27 GMT, "Tho X. Bui" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >Do remember that a true ultrasonic cleaner and aqueous solutions can be very bad for aluminum
    > >parts because of hydrogen embrittlement. Toss in a piece of foil, let it run for 15 minutes and
    > >you'll find it disintegrated.
    >
    > Do you have a cite for this? I tried to look into this and found no concrete information. At work
    > we use ultrasonic cleaners to clean aluminum components and nobody seems to know about this
    > danger, if it exists at all.

    Well, I don't know how earthshaking info it is, it's not a common problem because the oxide does
    a very good job of keeping hydrogen off of the aluminum. My understanding of it comes from the
    works of one of my group mates (Dr. Felix Zeides) in the 80's, we studied hydrogen embrittlement
    in aluminum at the U of Illinois, Champaign-Urbana. I did some (very) minor work--conference
    paper type-- on the system to study radiation damage in hydrogen charged aluminum. Contact me off
    line for info.

    For visual impact, if you place a piece of kitchen foil in an ultrasonic cleaner for 10-20 minutes,
    it should pretty much turn into powder. This as well as plasma charging and submersion in NaOH are
    the three standard methods for charging hydrogen into aluminum.

    I agree with the other poster regarding the original subject--sonic level vibration is not
    sufficient to break down the oxide layer and is not going to be a problem.

    Tho
     
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