Powder Coating ???????'s Ask Here!!

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by acme powdercoat, Mar 22, 2005.

  1. lokstah

    lokstah New Member

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    Where'd the powdercoat guy go, anyways?
     


  2. biker7

    biker7 New Member

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    bore-troll has got him by the ankle as he was trying to escape Hey...not so fast buddy. :eek:
     
  3. meehs

    meehs New Member

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    Good question! He was on here shamelessly whoring himself out and now he's disappeared! And the one time I could've actually used the service too... :D
     
  4. biker7

    biker7 New Member

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    Much has already been addressed meehs. You would be well served to work with your local powdercoater anyway as shipping your frame both out and back will economically influence your decision. Powercoating capablity varies. Some strip frames and power coat them with only clear for example. There is an abundance of information out on the web and am sure you will make the right decision. If its a quick job you need with no decals and you aren't looking to replicate the orignal paint job in terms of its aesthetic quality, power coating is fine. The reason it is used so extensively on motorcycle frames is because its expedient...cosmetics aren't as important because most of the frame it buried by components. Not so with a bicycle as the frame makes more of a statement. Lastly Powdercoating because of its film thickness reduces the definition of lugging if your frame is so equipped.
    George
     
  5. meehs

    meehs New Member

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    My MTB frame is TIG welded, not lugged and I'm really not overly concerned with the appearance (MTB frames get beat anyway). Don't get me wrong, I'd like it to look good but I'm fairly confident that any good powdercoater with experience doing bike frames could acheive that. The problem is that while the local powdercoaters that I've been in-touch with say they can do it, none of them have any experience doing bike frames. So I'm thinking that paying the shipping costs to have the frame sprayed by someone who specializes in bike frames might be worth it. I'd feel better about it anyway.

    FWIW, If it were just any old steel MTB frame I'd probably just touch it up as best I could and leave it at that. But this is a custom frame built specifically for my freakish body so I'd like to preserve it as best I can. Nice Columbus FOCO frame too.
     
  6. acme powdercoat

    acme powdercoat New Member

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    Well, thanks for the warm welcome. You guys are really spirited. The genius answers his own questions so thanks for that. The powder used for a bicycle frame is almost always a polyester, this is the most durable as far as resistence to UV rays, it also has the most weatherability of any powder. It is not as hard as an epoxy but epoxy powder can not be used for outdoor application. The heat required is 200 C, that is 392 F for ten to fifteen minutes after the piece reaches the correct temperature. Any bike frame we have done reaches that temp within a minute, so the frame is exposed to 200 C for never more then 16 minutes. As far as shameless marketing, hey whats shameless about marketing. I get allot of frames, most from custom builders but others just find us. Decals will melt or just go bad in the process, the frame must be stripped to bare metal. We have a heated, agitated strip tank here that removes any coating including powdercoating with no problem, some shops use a burn off process or blasting but these are not doing your part any good. the strip process we use leaves no speck of the existing coating on the piece. the tank is 120 degrees F. A complete strip on a bike frame takes 12 to 30 minutes. the process involves cleaning the piece by stripping, then we polish the metal to a smooth finish as the condition of the substrate is whats make the piece look good. Which brings me to deep scratches and imperfections. They can be filled with a metal to metal type bondo which is availible at any auto body supply, this then has to be wet sanded and polished out. Then the piece that has the filler on it must go in the oven to be gassed out, heating up the frame and filler to gas out the resins in the filler as they will cause bubbling at the filled area if this is not done, the frame is then cleaned again, dryed and coated. Powder only comes in set colors and can not be mixed, some effects such as prism, metal flake and gloss reducers can be added for a different effect in any color but the powder colors are formulated and can not be changed. there are many colors, over 1400. There are many effects, candies, metallics, flakes, prisms, and even a chameleon color.

    We are custom powder coaters, not industrial 2000 pieces of electrical boxes and we will get to your piece when we can, we turn around in one week to ten days. marketing on a forum is not for anyone, if you f*#% it up they will fry you.
    the site for you who asked is
    www.acmepowdercoating.com
    My name is John and I remain
    at your service
     
  7. lokstah

    lokstah New Member

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    Sounds like you've got a good operation, John.
     
  8. acme powdercoat

    acme powdercoat New Member

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    thank you, I see you are from the bay area, we do a considerable amount of racing mountain bike frames for people who recently raced in the San Francisco area. The one customer was from Chicago and raced in your area which got us a few customers in Ca. Most mountain bike racers like there frames to be extremely durable and we have been using textured poly's on their frames.
     
  9. biker7

    biker7 New Member

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    I said I was having some fun with you for your shameless self promotion and I agree, nothing wrong with a little self promotion. Also agree with lokstah...does sound like a thorough operation and you are more than an industrial powdercoater.
    Good luck with your company.
    The Genius
     
  10. lokstah

    lokstah New Member

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    I'm definitely not in the market for a powdercoat job myself, but should the need arise, I'll look into Acme (provided Meehs, Boudreaux and biker7 approve).

    ;)
     
  11. acme powdercoat

    acme powdercoat New Member

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    I would certainly appreciate that but I would also help you with any info I can so you can walk into your local guy and know whats up. We get our share.
    Hey1 let go of my ankle I have work to do!!!!
    John
     
  12. meehs

    meehs New Member

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    Hey, I meant no offense by saying you're shamelessly whoring yourself out. I do it myself all the time! Thanks for the info. You may be seeing my frame in the very near future. Do you guys do the Hoffman boxes? I've ordered hundreds of them over the years for various peices of equipment that I've designed.
     
  13. DiabloScott

    DiabloScott New Member

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    Good god I should hope not!
     
  14. artmichalek

    artmichalek New Member

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    Sounds like it might itch a bit...
     
  15. acme powdercoat

    acme powdercoat New Member

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    Do you guys do the Hoffman boxes?

    The answer is no, most likely they have there own equipment as they run limited colors. The standard being gray. We have done many different type of boxes made for switching or electronic parts. Computer tower boxes and the like but it is usually an individual who wants a trick color. we just did candy blue on a couple of control boxes. that involves first powdercoating the piece in chrome and then a translucent blue candy over the chrome for a highly reflective finish.
     
  16. biker7

    biker7 New Member

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    John,
    In the context of bike frames, have you ever shoot a clear coat powder over a base coat for a bit more depth and pop? If so have you ever tried sandwiching decals between base and clear coats? Can the decals take the heat?
    As to your candy colors...do you achieve color depth with two colors...say a silver base color as with conventional candy paints?
    Thanks,
    George
     
  17. acme powdercoat

    acme powdercoat New Member

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    George,

    We routinely put a clear coat over any color to make it deeper and it does. Metallics which have small bits of aluminum in them must be clear coated as the metal bits that are on the surface may oxidize and dull the finish. Once the clear is applied, the top smooths out nicely and gives a deep rich finish. Some solid colors, depending on the gloss factor with + 90 being the highest gloss do not need a clear coat as the gloss is very high. Now when using a high gloss powder, known as mirror finish, they flow out very smooth which is whats determines the gloss, but the drawback is when a mirror powder flows out it sometimes pulls away from any creeases or ridges inherent in the piece. For instance, we did a differential cover with many cooling fins for a builder in Annapolis Md yesterday in a mirror yellow, sweet color but we had to do the piece three times to insure coverage, mirrors are a pain but they are what it says, a mirror finish.

    Candies are always applied over a reflective coating. A bike frame would have to be coated in silver or chrome powder coating, they look the same, and then the candy color is applied as the candy colors are translucent and would telegraph the original substrate through them, so any swirls or imperfections would just show through. The best candy finish is over real chrome plating as the reflective quality of real chrome and the smoothness is an outstanding base.
     
  18. acme powdercoat

    acme powdercoat New Member

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    Regarding the decals, they can not withstand the heat and can not go between coats and must be over the top or you can spry a liquid clear over the decal to bury it but that defeats the purpose. The high heats required to cure melt the decals. If they had a metal or foil base, it would probably work. Edelbrock has a decal made of metal on their intake manifolds and hold up well to the heat.
     
  19. biker7

    biker7 New Member

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    Hi John,
    I am heavy into car restoration and understand the virtues of powdercoating.
    I personally prefer base and clear coat enamel paint on bike frames with decals sandwiched between however.

    Here is an aluminum valve cover on an engine I recently rebuilt which was powder coated initially with a silver metallic base powder coat:

    http://members.roadfly.com/georgemann/M30FullView.jpg

    I then brushed the aluminum logo and bars out you see and finished with having clear shot over it for further depth and keeping the exposed aluminum from oxidizing. As you well know, powdercoating has great temperature resistance and why it is perfect for many automotive applications...even wheels.

    Thank you for your comments John,
    George
     
  20. wayfastwhitey

    wayfastwhitey New Member

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    Is it possible to strip an aluminum frame, polish it and just clear over the polished ( or maybe brushed) finsh? I have a cannondale r1000 that I would like to do this way, no decals.

    Thanks

    P.S. Nice website, cool pics!
     
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