Power for sprinters

[Swoop]

What if you are a good squatter and a bad jumper? The best things for teaching explosiveness are explosive things that use more than one joint. Yes you need to squat...but absolute max is not entirely determinant of your ability. A better lift is a clean or clean and jerk in my opinion. You need strength but strength with slow legs is worthless. Maybe even add plyometrics.

 

[bikeguy]

Swoop, indeed top class olympic lifters (and powerlifters) have the best VJ's recorded, just see some of them jump after a successful lift! Still, sprint cycling is more like explosive endurance, the ability to repeat a relatively explosive movment many times. It's possible to be an explosive athlete without having good gym lifts though, I've read that Carl Lewis didn't push a lot of heavy iron and yet he won gold in the long jump and 100 m dash many times, keep in mind, he still did lift. On the other hand Ben Johnson was known for heaving heavy iron (over 400 lb incline press at 80 kg, half squats for reps with 600 lbs) and had the fastest 50-60 m time (and taking anabolics, indeed at the same gym I went to at the University of Toronto, although not while I was there) It seems some people are better at moving a heavy weight somewhat quickly (olympic lifting) while others are good at lifting a relatively light weight very quickly (bodyweight in long jump, 100 m dash, sprint cycling). I'll second that cleans and jerks and plyometrics (I like depth jumps and bounding onto boxes of various heights, also jumping over hurdles) are an excellent way to develop sprint power for both 100 m dash and sprint cycling.

-Bikeguy

 

[Billsworld]

I agree with your points...tough to hammer at both at the same time. Do you mind giving me some pointers/goals. I am looking for top speed increases. Current best on a flat after a small hill 38 mph(48x14...150+ -) I did the work from 30-38. 11.2 is the masters wr.I think?? How fast is a realistic goal for a flat to get near where you are?? All the road riding I did last year killed gym and bike power. I am building it back now. How much road riding do you do? any crits? When and how much gym work do you taper out. Send me the bill.....Thanks BP

Being now in my 3rd real season of track sprinting, I've sorted out what seems to work and what doesn't at least for me. I have really been more of a kilo guy, but can run an outdoor, sea-level, concrete, 333m track 200m tt in 11.1.

Remember always that cycling is power, not strength. The most impressive gains I've made in power on the bike included exactly zero gym work. It consisted of very intense sprint work and starts on the track bike. I dropped a full second off my already ok 1/2 lap start in 6 weeks. That says to things: 1) I had a lot of genetic potential left, but 2) That on-the-bike training is awesome for being on-the-bike fast

There is certainly merit to doing gym work, but it is not that it makes you faster as a sprinter. By itself it might make you slower. What it does do is makes more muscle - and fast twitch at that. After the gym phase, when you do get on the bike there's more to work with. Mostly you'll be training those new fibers how to fire in new patterns.

One more note on gym work - it is nearly impossible to do long hours on the bike concurrently with strength training with the goal of hypertrophy (muscle gain). There are only so many hours in a week for your body to recover. The two ideas are nearly in direct opposition. Once the muscle is there, maintaining it is easy with minimal gym work, but the building phase necessitates backing off quite a lot on bike time. A bit of a trade off, but consider it an investment for the future.

Train on.

 

[Hypnospin]

bill,
i can offer my take on the questions you posed to bud,
we have cat 4 and 5 roadies, crit guys, who have hit 37+ on the flats.
there have been 40 mph bunch sprints on the flat into a stiff headwind 'round here...

my preferance is for higher miles than needed for speed alone, but 120-200/wk will provide a good all 'round balance.

of course, some will insist a pure sprinter can get by on 50 miles/wk (!) with the right amount of base and specific prep cycles during a taper period.

as for weight, my best results in regards to sprinting (i am not a track sprinter, but a crit/road guy with wins and placings from scenarios including bunch sprints, kilo type efforts and prime laps) have come from lots of heavy lower and upper body training, with the general plan for the legs as high weight/ high volume for quads, calfs and hams, then transitioning into mostly quads with moderate weight high reps.
then in season, quit most all the legwork with weights, and build high mileage base, then race simulation group rides, then sprint work on the three aspects:
jump, top speed and duration. during this time i sometimes blast the calfs a bit so they do not limit quad derived power as a weak link.
during the racing season i then did no weights for the legs, but continued actualy moderately heavy (or more!) for the upper body as i believe in muscle mass sufficient for sprinting, but at the same time the legs must not be compromised from lack of recovery during this phase.

this being said, if you have been lifting heavy for more than a couple years, you likely have too much muscle for cycling, as my team mate, a district champ track and crit sprinter told me "you gotta oxygenate that sh!t",
meaning there is a break even point for cycling effectiveness that can be crossed...also, watch out for the naysayers re weights on this forum, they tend not to fall into the sprint discipline.

i could ramble on with painfully detailed specifics, but this is a general overview i can offer. let me know if you want any details, keep in mind i am not that much better than average except fof the amount of stubborn bone in my head, but i have been at it a while, and am heavily committed to next season, gotta be, i am signed on with a legendary race team which includes sponsorship support!

I agree with your points...tough to hammer at both at the same time. Do you mind giving me some pointers/goals. I am looking for top speed increases. Current best on a flat after a small hill 38 mph(48x14...150+ -) I did the work from 30-38. 11.2 is the masters wr.I think?? How fast is a realistic goal for a flat to get near where you are?? All the road riding I did last year killed gym and bike power. I am building it back now. How much road riding do you do? any crits? When and how much gym work do you taper out. Send me the bill.....Thanks BP

 

[Hypnospin]

maybe we should look to soccer players for this, after all, they do not stop at just a "full court" sprint...

Does this mean most NBA guards and some of the forwards would be excellent sprinters? Could Michael Jordan or Tracy McGrady have been the world's fastest man?

Tongue only slightly in cheek.

 

[Billsworld]

Its tough to figure out how fast one has to go on the road to be competative on the track. I am guessing by saying that a 42-43 mph top end no hill sprint would translate into some good track capabilities. This is based on playing with formulas on analyticalcycling.com (I might be wrong) I think you experienced crit guys are definitely worth listening to, and I am still wondering which direction to go in. (crit..track) I love just riding as hard as I can, but last year I found that as my miles went up my knees got sore, then I started sinning faster and my knees felt better but my power was gone . Lack of experience I guess.I have always had good explosive power in the gym, I wondering how to get it to the crank. PB on flat 38.5 corrected to 38.9 48x14. 205lbs Thanks for the reply . Congrats on the sponsor too.

bill,
i can offer my take on the questions you posed to bud,
we have cat 4 and 5 roadies, crit guys, who have hit 37+ on the flats.
there have been 40 mph bunch sprints on the flat into a stiff headwind 'round here...

my preferance is for higher miles than needed for speed alone, but 120-200/wk will provide a good all 'round balance.

of course, some will insist a pure sprinter can get by on 50 miles/wk (!) with the right amount of base and specific prep cycles during a taper period.

as for weight, my best results in regards to sprinting (i am not a track sprinter, but a crit/road guy with wins and placings from scenarios including bunch sprints, kilo type efforts and prime laps) have come from lots of heavy lower and upper body training, with the general plan for the legs as high weight/ high volume for quads, calfs and hams, then transitioning into mostly quads with moderate weight high reps.
then in season, quit most all the legwork with weights, and build high mileage base, then race simulation group rides, then sprint work on the three aspects:
jump, top speed and duration. during this time i sometimes blast the calfs a bit so they do not limit quad derived power as a weak link.
during the racing season i then did no weights for the legs, but continued actualy moderately heavy (or more!) for the upper body as i believe in muscle mass sufficient for sprinting, but at the same time the legs must not be compromised from lack of recovery during this phase.

this being said, if you have been lifting heavy for more than a couple years, you likely have too much muscle for cycling, as my team mate, a district champ track and crit sprinter told me "you gotta oxygenate that sh!t",
meaning there is a break even point for cycling effectiveness that can be crossed...also, watch out for the naysayers re weights on this forum, they tend not to fall into the sprint discipline.

i could ramble on with painfully detailed specifics, but this is a general overview i can offer. let me know if you want any details, keep in mind i am not that much better than average except fof the amount of stubborn bone in my head, but i have been at it a while, and am heavily committed to next season, gotta be, i am signed on with a legendary race team which includes sponsorship support!

 

[Hypnospin]

as for my experience on how heavy lifting translates into sprinting, the main advantage that is immediately noticible is the power to jump, as in accelerating to intiate the sprint. if one has this kind of power and does not use a smooth style to jump, the bike gets torqued to the extent that stuff happens, the back wheel gyrates and hops, the chain skips and chaneds cogs, both wheels hop up down and side to side...a measure of restraint has to be applied.

if heavy lifting derived power is applied in an eficcient manner, your jump will be equal to some good sprinters. i anticipatethat others jumps will seem like no big deal to match. this is a great psyche out.

as for top speed and duration, this seems better developed from high rep moderate weight and lots of on the bike mileage leading to specific drills.

the other advantage i have seen to this kind of power is on road rides with long slight grades, and or short steep grades, this i attribute to an advantage in greater total power output. longer and or steeper terrain efforts give the nod to those with greater power to weight ratio is my belief.

Its tough to figure out how fast one has to go on the road to be competative on the track. I guess.I have always had good explosive power in the gym, I wondering how to get it to the crank. PB on flat 38.5 corrected to 38.9 48x14. 205lbs Thanks for the reply . Congrats on the sponsor too.

 

[Billsworld]

I have limited experience on the bike. 1 yr /2crits , 20 yrs strength training though . In my humble opinion, the gym work for cyclists should take place 2-3 days in a row, and the rest (5 days)should be bike work.( Other than some real fast spinning right after a leg workout )I think the next day after legs should be another upper body gym day/stretching and no bike. I am not sure what a guy like you would do during racing season, I guess no legs a little upper body work like you said and ride alot. I am so torn up after a leg day riding seems like a waste of time...but Im old. If I were a road racer I dont think I would lift at all other than injury prevention stuff like abs etc. I think I am expecting too much too fast , As you said in a little different manner, there needs to be some physiological changes in my legs and CV system to get better. Thanks for you input. Consevatives dont go trick or treating . We are to uptight.

as for my experience on how heavy lifting translates into sprinting, the main advantage that is immediately noticible is the power to jump, as in accelerating to intiate the sprint. if one has this kind of power and does not use a smooth style to jump, the bike gets torqued to the extent that stuff happens, the back wheel gyrates and hops, the chain skips and chaneds cogs, both wheels hop up down and side to side...a measure of restraint has to be applied.

if heavy lifting derived power is applied in an eficcient manner, your jump will be equal to some good sprinters. i anticipatethat others jumps will seem like no big deal to match. this is a great psyche out.

as for top speed and duration, this seems better developed from high rep moderate weight and lots of on the bike mileage leading to specific drills.

the other advantage i have seen to this kind of power is on road rides with long slight grades, and or short steep grades, this i attribute to an advantage in greater total power output. longer and or steeper terrain efforts give the nod to those with greater power to weight ratio is my belief.