Power Meters Don't Actually Measure Power: Part II



integrate

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Oct 10, 2011
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[SIZE=100%]Our bodies are meant to be support structures which allow us to function. Functional training exercise programs are designed to maximize neuromuscular efficiency, or optimize the way muscles work together to move bones. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=100%]“Everyone needs power to move either in the athletic arena or in the real world, functional training will give you that power, “ says Juan Carlos Santana Med, CSCS in his book The Essence of Band and Pulley Training Companion Guide. “To optimally enhance movement patterns, people need to practice a movement, then use progressive overload during the movement.” This is the basis of functional training.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=100%]Very often, riders who do workout engage in seated body builder type muscle isolation[/SIZE][SIZE=100%] programs. Great if you are building bulk to flex on stage, but not beneficial if you are trying to go faster up Old La Honda. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=100%]I've always found it funny how cycling strength workouts look just like old school body builder routines: sit down and press, sit down and curl, sit down and extend. Sitting on a solid surface as you exercise, with a machine dictating the way you move can potentially increase the pressure in your lumbar disc region (low back) up to 90%, as stated by Dr. Mel Siff in his book Supertraining. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=100%]“Seated exercises always impose a greater load on the lumbar spinal discs than equivalent standing exercise,” says Siff. “Even without an added load, sitting with the back mainta[/SIZE][SIZE=100%]ining its neutral curvatures increases the lumbar disc pressure by about 40%. This is why standing exercise is a superior approach.” [/SIZE]

[SIZE=100%]One of the biggest reasons for the increase in disc pressure is the body’s inability to absorb any of the shock from a weight bearing load. This comes from the knees, hips or ankles not being able to help your spine distribute force evenly throughout your body. There is a reason we don't have these machines at the studio.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=100%]"[/SIZE]The desk worker has a tough job. She sits constantly from early morning to early evening, removing herself from her desk a few times a day for an occasional trip to the restroom, filing cabinet, or water fountain," says John Izzo in his article Pointing Out Gluteal Atrophy. "The seated position exacerbates the inactivity of the gluteals and reinforces the degeneration of this muscle."
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[SIZE=100%]Riding a bike takes place in a supported seated environment in only one plane of motion like these exercise machines do. It is critical to do "anti-cycling" workouts to open up the hips while you drive force/power with a single leg work.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=100%]Turkish Get Ups, single leg squats, Bulgarian Split Squats, etc are all examples of great ways to do this.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=100%]We have seen 100's of riders at [/SIZE][SIZE=100%]INTEGRATE Performance Fitness since we opened in 2008[/SIZE][SIZE=100%]. Out of that population, it is safe to say over 50% of them lacked the proper muscle firing sequences to take full advantage of their hips when they ride (not too mention causing joint pain of every variety). They all had one thing in common: their hip flexors had gotten way too tight, and that had shut their glutes from functioning properly affecting their ability to move correctly.

"Combining sitting down for long periods of time with sitting down to exercise, and we've begun to see a huge lack of movement skill in the population at large,” says Paul Chek, HHP, NMT, in his book “Movement that Matters”.
[/SIZE] [SIZE=100%]This helps explain why such a large number of the above mentioned people had joint pain, particularly in the low back and knees.

This will will drastically impact the number of watts you put out on your "stability meters" (as they should be called). Want to drive these numbers up? Stand up when you exercise.
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Great post, this will make me more cognizant of doing seated leg presses, extensions, etc., although there are certain exercises that provide better isolation of muscles that you really don't use while cycling, which are done better while seated (leg curls, inner thighs, outer thighs, etc.). There is really no good way to isolate some of these muscles while standing...
 
To summarize:

Muscles move bones and only bones.

Exercise machines not designed to exercise the guteals, don't engage the gluteals.

No one has ever suggested standing, closed chain free weight exercise is superior to machines - ever. Not until now. Don't try to Google "bicycling gluteal exercise".

John Izzo likes big butts. Some guys toss it up and leave it, Integrate pulls up quick to retrieve it. Shake that healthy (powerful) butt.

Sensors designed to specifically measure power output, power meters, are incorrectly titled. They should be something less informative and gimmicky like "stability-meter" or "e-meter".

When you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

Did I get this right? I am sure that exercise physiologists would be quite interested in these results.

On the serious side, it is good advice for someone to exercise safely, effectively and correctly while in the gym. This information however, is not new or novel and the whole thing goes south when you attempt to redfine / replace a measurable physical property with what sounds to be marketing for your "specialty". Gym resistance training is only a small portion in the cycling power formula.
 
Different horses for different courses.

Integrate seems to believe that the limiter for bicyclists is something called stability. As opposed to something called power. It is confusing as both are simply words and Integrate wants to use a power meter to record stability. It seems foolish to use two terms to describe the numbers on a single device.

If I get on my bicycle and my meter shows 200 and then it shows 300, somehow my stability has increased. That seems to be nonsense.

If I make only gradual changes in the reading on my power meter, I can determine my heart rate by keeping track of the numbers on the meter and the time I have spent on my bicycle. For example, if I keep my power meter at 220 my heart rate will be about 150 after 5 minutes and then increase at a constant rate until it reaches 180 in 1 hour. My power meter is not a heart rate monitor, and it is nonsense to claim it is a heart rate monitor.

While there might be some basis for making a claim that some level of stability is needed, one needs a way to measure stability directly and some science that determines how much stability is needed. I don't think my power meter reading 300 makes me any more stable than a number of 200. I don't even think I want my power meter to read 300 for too long. I don't think I can tolerate that much stability.
 
You actually can measure stability. Either in a simple single squat test, or with EMG readings by attaching the pads to the glutes to measure firing rates. I can guarantee you that if you send two riders up a hill with the exact same HR Max, VO2 Max and max power number, the rider with better structural integrity in the joints will get to the top of the hill first more times than not. I know this because I've seen it.

I know riders who can big ring a local 3.25 mile climb at an ave grade of 8% under 25 mins, but that same rider can't do a squat half way to the floor without their heels elevating off the ground. This same rider also doesn't not have the ability to do a single leg squat because their balance is terrible because of the muscle imbalances created by riding as much as they do. I shutter to think how
much faster they can go if they increased their joint range of motion and hip strength off the bike.

This is where the cycling culture is victimized by tradition. Training science has advanced leaps and bounds in the last 10 years, and as different sports catch up, athletes have gotten better. The next wave is solely based on unlocking the joints through optimal neural input to the muscles. I have seen riders go from a max spin up for 10 secs of 180 rpms to 220 rpms by doing joint "opener" drills while on a trainer. Pretty amazing stuff.
 
You're right. Neural input, potential food allergies, regular allergies, fatigue, mineral levels, hydration, mood and essentially an other outside stressors can affect power output. As far as seated machine work, that has been proven to be inferior to standing work. Check out anything by Stuart McGill, Paul Chek or Mel Siff and you'll find several examples as to why.
 
So a power meter is equivalent to an electromylogram?

Perhaps you "big ring" guys don't have a need for the brand of training you offer.

Have any real, peer reviewed, data?
 
Ha ha someone has passed his CHEK level 1 and is keen to teach us academic hicks a thing or two.

Outstanding. Wrong but outstanding!
 
Twaddle, I love it! That damn Yankee ****** spewing nonsense! I know this information seems outrageous, incorrect/wrong, etc. If you break down: What we do on a bike How that degrades muscle firing patterns because of repetitive uniplanar movement What im saying about stability being a critical precursor to power And how poor cyclists actually move off the bike This will make sense. Try something if your adventurous enough. Laying down on the floor on your back, bend your knees to 90 degrees with your ankles under the knees feet on the floor. Bridge up and extend your right leg holding yourself up with your your left leg. If your hips dip, and left hammie cramps, or quads/low back are doing most of the work, your glutes aren't working, and you will NOT be riding at your best. Give it a shot on both sides. My guess is at least half the people who do it will cramp up in the hamstrings because of reciprocal inhibition from overactive quads/hip flexors. Most likely spinal erectors and lats too.
 
I've reached out to some more strength coaches that I know to get some more info to pass along. I have specifically asked them to give me data on why a lack of hip stability/mobility will limit someone's ability to optimize power production. Hopefully they will give me information that will help make this click for people.
 
Originally Posted by integrate .

I've reached out to some more strength coaches that I know to get some more info to pass along. I have specifically asked them to give me data on why a lack of hip stability/mobility will limit someone's ability to optimize power production.
Hopefully they will give me information that will help make this click for people.

I could go on about my resume in strength training for the past 30 years, but it is not important. If what you say is true I could have tapped into my own knowledge to improve my cycling and had no need to come to this forum as a cycling newbie a few years ago to learn how to improve cycling performance.

If my water line breaks does it make sense to call and electrician? Does that make sense?

I came to a cycling forum and lurked reading post from veteran cyclists that have success in racing, I have watched the advice of cycling coaches like Alex Simmons, Fergie, Dave, RDO, Dr. Coggan, Allen Hunter, Ric Stern and others. I have read papers from Lydiard, C. Howe and books from Dr. Coggan and Allen Hunter. I have been on multitude of coach websites reading. What I have learned from cycling gurus that have plenty of successful clients in cycling racing has started to click with me.

Why? Because I want to know how to improve cycling performance. Being fully aware of the many types of strength training programs I will continue to reach out cycling coaches to learn about cycling.

If my water line breaks I have enough common sense to call a plumber and not an electrician.
 
Originally Posted by integrate .

I've reached out to some more strength coaches that I know to get some more info to pass along. I have specifically asked them to give me data on why a lack of hip stability/mobility will limit someone's ability to optimize power production.
Hopefully they will give me information that will help make this click for people.

You mean you didn't have the data before you started on this crusade?

Wow!
 
I do have the data, it has been presented, and it has been discounted as heracy. Unfortunate acctually, because it is not only accurate, but it is factual. It is also not rooted in opinion, but in the practices, learnings and methodologies of people who have proven it works.

I've got mounds of evidence in the last six years based on watching over 400 cyclists move incorrectly. People who have leg pressed over 1000lbs who can't get in and out of a chair correctly with the proper neuromuscular coordination (the muscles working together to produce movement across multiple joints) for hip extension. Every person who has come over from a cycling, seated machine environment or a desk job has exhibited this to some extent.

Their joint stability is terrible, and they can't lay down as much power. Once we make their lumbopelvic hop complex stronger/more stable, their times on climbs go down and they start getting a lot faster. Not too mention the instances of back pain and knee pain being eliminated.

Jim Rutberg (Carmichael Training Systems) told me in an interview "Let's face it, a lot of us went into endurance sports because we aren't coordinated." It doesn't take much athleticism to sit on a bike to make it move forward. By this I mean you aren't rotating, jumping/landing, cutting in different directions, having to remain upright while being hit repeatedly or essentially performing movements you'd see on the pitch, on a rugby field, in a cricket match, on a basketball court or in a tennis match. That is movement in a 3D plain which requires a much higher level of coordination to produce power.

And this is exactly why cyclists need to move correctly OFF their bikes. You spend more time out of the saddle than you do in it so you may as well optimize your stability do you can move better.
And now, I return you to your regularly scheduled stoning.....
 
Originally Posted by integrate .

This will make sense.
Try something if your adventurous enough. Laying down on the floor on your back, bend your knees to 90 degrees with your ankles under the knees feet on the floor.
Bridge up and extend your right leg holding yourself up with your your left leg. If your hips dip, and left hammie cramps, or quads/low back are doing most of the work, your glutes aren't working, and you will NOT be riding at your best.
Give it a shot on both sides. My guess is at least half the people who do it will cramp up in the hamstrings because of reciprocal inhibition from overactive quads/hip flexors. Most likely spinal erectors and lats too.
I am adventurous enough however I am unable to do this on account of having had a lower leg amputation in 2007 and a knee that doesn't bend too well as a result of the injuries I sustained. Functionally I'm a mess according to the body analysis people (like the guy on the cycling science forum). Big difference in thigh and glute size, unbalanced pedal action due to cycling prosthetic, back arch all wrong and so on they tell me. How can I possible ride like that?

I've still managed to beat pre-amputation best W/kg for 4-minutes and longer, and hold a current able bodied state & national record in team pursuiting. Even won a major Masters A race here this year.

All through effective training on my bike (and having a good bike set up to start with). Funny that.
 
Quote
Bridge up and extend your right leg holding yourself up with your your left leg. If your hips dip, and left hammie cramps, or quads/low back are doing most of the work, your glutes aren't working, and you will NOT be riding at your best.
Give it a shot on both sides. My guess is at least half the people who do it will cramp up in the hamstrings because of reciprocal inhibition from overactive quads/hip flexors. Most likely spinal erectors and lats too.

Learning to better engage these muscle masses is far easier said than done. Problem like you mentioned several times, is that other muscle masses can somehow prevent the glutes from firing to their full potential, by doing most of the job themselves so to speak.

That said, based on experience, these issues are better solved whilst riding. Some level of non cycling activities may help, but in the end, all this need to *integrate* to the specifics of cycling. The reason for this is that one has to learn to better use these muscle masses whilst pedaling at a relatively high frequency (cadence) for sustained periods of time, in a position that does not implicitely favour these muscle masses to be engaged.

All that is common recurring sort of issues for triathletes. You have the physiotherapist that prescribes great off bike routines to learn to better engage these masses which won't easily transfer to their cycling technique. Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say is that cycling coaches remain in best position for helping riders with this. Kinesiologist and physiotherapist can help, but a cycling expert is in a better position to finish the job.
 

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