Power newbie needs to estimate FTP

Discussion in 'Power Training' started by jojoma, Nov 19, 2011.

  1. jojoma

    jojoma New Member

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    Hi,

    I just got a power meter (PT SL+) last week, and I'm trying to figure out my FTP so I can start training properly. I have the new edition of Training and Racing w/ a Power Meter.

    I did an all-out hill climb today.

    Moving time: 22:50
    Grade: 7%
    Average power for the climb: 325w
    My weight: 154 pounds

    What do you think is a good FTP to use considering the duration is slightly more than 20 minutes, it was not a flat road (not sure if that matters), it was a race, which made us all go harder. Thanks

    Here is the power profile. (One thing of concern is the raw data from the lap says I had a max power of 745. The chart below does not go much above 600w. Plus, I did a sprint to my car at the end of the ride that was over 800w. I don't see that on the graph either. But those numbers are in the raw data. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/frown.gif

    [​IMG]
     
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  2. daveryanwyoming

    daveryanwyoming Well-Known Member

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    I'd take the standard swag of your FTP rounded to the closest 5 watts as 310 based on that ride. But that's a rough guess and makes a lot of assumptions about your personal strengths and weaknesses (e.g. AWC vs. CP). I'm personally not a big fan of fixed percentage of 20 minute power approaches but it's a pretty good starting point that you can put to the test in regular training.

    But it doesn't really matter. 310, 300, 315 pick a number and see how your training goes basing training levels off of that number. If you can't reliably sustain say 90% or more of your FTP estimate for the length of your regular Threshold intervals then you've likely estimated too high. If you regularly start punching out much higher numbers in your regular training then you've likely estimated too low. Adjust levels and FTP estimate as necessary as you get more data.

    One of the best reasons to really nail down your FTP is for driving the PMC and tracking TSS, CTL, ATL, etc. start with the 310 estimate. If and when you refine that estimate you can always go back and reset the FTP used for historical as well as future PMC calculations.

    -Dave
     
  3. lanierb

    lanierb New Member

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    Anything we give you based on one race of 23mins is going to be pretty loose. That said, I'd put your FTP at no more than 300w. Why? Because the standard protocol has you do a 5min all out effort before the 20min test to deplete your anaerobic capacity, leading to an FTP/20m power of about .95. However, you were (a) in a race so presumably maximally motivated, and (b) were on a hill climb which tends to generate at least as high power for most people as flat terrain and often higher, and (c) very fresh because you never spent your anaerobic capacity beforehand. In those situations I can easily generate 20 minute power that is at least 10% over my FTP (my FTP is 310w and my 20m best is 340w), and I think that's common. That would put your FTP in the 295-300 range.

    Anyway, these are all just a WAG until you start generating some 1h race efforts to verify them.
     
  4. Spinalot

    Spinalot New Member

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    Hi, I am a Triathlon / cycling coach and for new 'power user" I definitely believe in a standardized FTP test. There is a good site that give you a test, then a Zone calculator to work out your training zones. This is a good place to start and for re testing always use the same protocol to see the improvements. website. www.indoorroadcycling.com

    Good luck
     
  5. jojoma

    jojoma New Member

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    Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it.

    I'm going to try and do a flat FTP effort this weekend to get another read on my power.

    I set out tonight to do the "Hour of Power" on my indoor trainer. I lasted all of 12 minutes at 270w. I was burying myself too. High heart rate, sweating big time, well rested. After this, I had to go outside and ride around the block to get some confidence back. I noticed that I was able to sustain slightly higher watts (275 or so) with less perceived effort. I think I'll stick to heart rate training indoor.
     
  6. Alex Simmons

    Alex Simmons Member

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    http://alex-cycle.blogspot.com/2009/01/turbocharged-training.html
     
  7. Ken1984

    Ken1984 New Member

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    Hi guys and girls,

    I'm new here (from Belgium) and have also recently purchased a Powertap Pro. Having estimated my FTP, I would like to know where to find interesting training schemes or receive interesting feedback from U on how to train. I am preparing for the Tour of Flanders (recreation) at 31 March 2012. I currently do 2 trainings on Tacx Bushido (approx. 1 hour, consisting of 2x20 min at LSD and 20 min existing out of 4x3 intense with recuperation in between). Next to this I do a 3-4 hour training @ 65-70% (based on the formula of Karvonen, since I only have the Powertap since 3 days).

    I would like to change my training from based on HR to based on FTP. Should I keep on focussing on L2 in the coming weeks and gradually expand my training hours spent in L3 (e.g. as from February 2012) and also some sweet spot and VO2 - Anaerobic trainings?

    Thanks in advance.
    Ken
     
  8. doctorSpoc

    doctorSpoc New Member

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    mentioned in another thread.. that about 80% of the problem of riding indoors can be solved by getting a nice big honk'n fan. when you ride outside, riding along at 35-40km/h you have a tonne of airflow going past you, cooling your body.. but inside you have zero.. you're core temp goes up, HR goes up and your legs shut down.. another ~10% can be addressed by getting as big a flywheel, big rollers if you ride rollers.. increasing rotating weight as you can muster.. outside you have the inertia of you and your bike to smooth out dead spots while riding, inside it's the weight of your rims.. it's not even close.. it just makes it smoother and easier to keep your legs kicking over.. the other 10% can be handles by getting some good music and nice headphones to help with the boredom looking at those same four walls for the entire duration of the workout..

    i can produce same power indoors and outdoor no problem... i use the fan below.. forget about watching video.. for me that actually made my workouts seem longer and made me less focused.. found that if i just did a very structured workout with some good music that helped me enjoy the burn i got WAY more accomplished and much higher numbers.. also when to large diameters rollers.. flywheel would likely help somewhat if you're on a turbo type trainer...
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    http://www.lowes.com/pd_29180-11292-SFDC-600AT2OS_0__?productId=3172867&Ntt=utilitech+fan&pl=1&currentURL=%2Fpl__0__s%3FNtt%3Dutilitech%2Bfan&facetInfo=
     
  9. hrumpole

    hrumpole New Member

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    I can't produce the same power (outside roughly 10 percent higher) even with a fan (tho' not as big as that one). For example, on a 2x20 LT plus 3:30 vow workout,I'll have an NP of 19x to 200. and be shattered. For a three-hour ride with stops (and leaving the timer on during them), I'll have an NP of 200. I have my CP set at 220 in golden cheetah, and when I start producing over 100 bikescore (TSS) points in an hour, I know it's time to raise CP by 5 watts or so to continue to score the rides correctly.

    All you can do is all you can do. The way I look at it, if I can hit 270 for 20 minutes inside, I'll hit close to the magic number outside (300). Granted, I have a long way to go with an indoor PR of 234 for 20. (Sadly, that number appears to be an outlier. )
     
  10. numminummi

    numminummi New Member

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    Doing 10 min threshold intervals - should one then just be able to stay in the upper zone i.e. 105% and then adjust if possible to stay higher?
     
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