Power Profile: How Is My 1 Min. So Off? How this might affect my first race???



2011 SWORKS

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Apr 19, 2011
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I'm entering my first race this weekend in Coatsville, PA.
Sunday is a Crit (30 minute + 2 laps on a 1 mile coarse) & Monday is a 11 mile coarse with 3 laps.

I am wondering if you guys would comment on the total lack of power in my 1 minute Power Profile. Last night at our local Crit type training ride I produced strong numbers in my 60, 20, & especially 5 minute Average/not normalized power:
60 Min: 3.63 w/kg @ 323
20 Min: 3.81 w/kg @ 356
5 Min: 5.07 w/kg @ 451

... I tanked at the final sprint and could only muster a 15 second effort average of 1,052 watts. This is just me working too hard in the final lap I guess?

When I am fresh I can hit 5 second averages of over 1,450 watts & stay strong to mid 850's at 30 seconds but then I blow up entirely. My power profile shows good power everywhere except the non-existent 1 minute power? How can I be so off after 30 seconds.

Would you suggest just throwing in some 1 minute training? Too late to help my training for a race in 3 days but any advice on that?
 
30 to 40 seconds is where one can extra to die in a rather spectacular fashion if going all out in a rather untrained state. You can train to extend this period a little bit or you can learn to pace it. 800 to 1000watts for the kilo is the territory of the "Kilo Gods", the very best in the world, and you're about as far away from that as I am of winning sprints in the Tour de France. ;)

Hopefully you're not the shrinking violet type but you're carrying a fair bit of weight - are you tall, overly muscley or had a prior life as a couch potato? I've been the latter but never the two former ones, so I know first hand how much an extra 50+lbs can effect things on the bike, even on the flat.

If this is your first race then I'd stick with the basics:

Work on threshold power, work on diet, work on how much rest/sleep you really need.

Working on threshold power isn't glamourous. Depending on the time available it's either going to be based on intervals of 20 minutes ridden very hard or longer efforts of 1 to 3 hours ridden slightly less hard. This work is the cornerstone of going faster and the basis of making lasting improvements.

For the shorter efforts, say 1 to 8 minutes, you can either do a session alone and do structured intervals or do them as part of a spirited club ride - one that includes many sprints for the top of hills, signposts etc etc. Resist the temptation to ride every sprint tactically and make sure you get a few in that really do take in the desired time period - ie take a flyer and make everyone work to come around you.
 
Thanks Swampy,

It's been 4 weeks since my last post where you had given similar advice. Since then I have lost 6 pounds from 202 down to 196... officially under 90 kg!!

I don't know if it was the heat or what but I am now finally starting to see an increase in power across the board with exception of the drop off after 30 seconds.

I wanted my first race to be a CAT 5 but it turns out it is a 4/5. According to my Power Profile I should be able to stay with the 4/5 group but having never raced before I will be happy just to finish the Crit safely & in one piece.

Off to read some "My First Crit" posts... any suggestions?
 
Originally Posted by 2011 SWORKS .

...I am wondering if you guys would comment on the total lack of power in my 1 minute Power Profile.
Many if not most roadies come in really low on the 1 minute column of the power profiling table, but many more don't even register on the charts for 1 minute power as they don't specifically go out and try to establish their best possible 1 minute power under ideal conditions. It's very unlikely you'll get anywhere near your best possible 1 minute power accidentally or during a race. You may very well hit best efforts for sprints and five minute efforts during hard racing and if you race 40km time trials you might hit your best full hour but 1 minute is really tough to hit without a dedicated all out effort unless you happen to race the kilo on the track.

When I really nail an all out 1 minute effort I usually feel like wretching and can hardly pedal the bike for a couple of minutes so it's not something I'm likely to do in the middle of a race as I'd almost certainly get dropped right after hitting that new 1 minute record and it's unlikely I'd be fresh enough to hit my best possible full minute at the finish of a race when I could afford to go all out. So if you want to assess your capabilities you should really do some full out one minute efforts during training and it may take you several tries spread out over multiple days to figure out how to really throw down for a full minute. But it will hurt and hurt a lot as you'll go deeply anaerobic in a full out one minute effort and those last ten to fifteen seconds will feel like a lifetime of hurt.

So don't get too hung up on low one minute power numbers. A lot of roadies that barely crack the lower regions of the power profiling charts for one minute power do just fine and race well and even win mid to upper category races. If you want to specialize in the kilo on the track then that particular column of the chart is more important.

In general though Swampy's got your best advice, keep focusing on sustainable power, FTP perhaps 5 minute power if your events demand a lot of hard work near VO2 Max and of course a fast sprint is always an asset. The numbers you posted above are really high for someone entering their first race presumably as a Cat 5 racer. I'd stick with flatter events at 88kg but your power to weight numbers are rock solid for someone just starting to race. If your current fitness isn't enough to be competitive in a lower category race I'd work hard on racing skills and the driving part as your engine is in pretty good shape. Sure more power at all durations always helps but you're not lacking in the power department.

Good luck and let us know how your race goes,
-Dave
 
Thanks Dave,

You brought up a point that was on the tip of my tongue but I hesitated to ask, which is... where do I use my 1 minute max effort. Having that not even register on the WKO+ Power Profile was bothering me but if I am likely to never use it I guess it's no big deal.

Because I got passed at the finish line Wednesday at our Crit type training ride I was thinking that I need to figure out my 1 minute power but it does not sound like anyone would use a MAX 1 minute effort in a race. When I'm on a group ride & relatively "fresh" I have a great 15 second "kick" that guys I ride with can not stay with. I am confident that would put me in the mix of most CAT 4 or 5 races if I can figure out how to arrive at 200 meters from the finish somewhat fresh.... that is of coarse if the race was being conducted on paper or on a computer where racing smart and using tactics does not come in to play /img/vbsmilies/smilies/rolleyes.gif

I'll let you know how it goes this weekend.
 
Originally Posted by 2011 SWORKS .
...... where do I use my 1 minute max effort. ..
Outside of the kilo or similar short time trials you're unlikely to use your best possible 1 minute power. But that doesn't mean a high 1 minute power isn't useful during races. If you want to take a long last lap flyer in a crit or lead out a team mate in the sprint or if you have trouble maintaining a forward position so that you can actually get a clean shot at sprinting then more one minute power (as well as more race positioning experience) can be real useful. But even in those situations you aren't likely to use or establish a new one minute power record, but your race day 1 minute best effort might be 80-90% of your best possible so it still pays to have power for long anaerobic efforts if your racing and your preferred style demand it.

If you're not super confident in your one minute power (and don't use the charts here as much as your race experience relative to others) then you probably shouldn't take a lot of full kilo last lap flyers in crits. But realistically that fails a lot more than it works for most riders. But with your solid 30 second power and good sprint you may very well want to go early as in a backside flyer before turn three on a four corner crit course. Similarly you might want to plan any lead outs so that you get your sprinter close enough to the line before popping with your known strengths but avoid going too early and running out of steam too far from the line. But for the most part with the numbers you posted the real question is whether you can get near the front with a couple of laps to go and then defend that forward position against surges and swarming of the field so that you're one of the first two or three riders out of the final corner where you can put that sprint to good use. An awful lot of good race sprinting depends on what you do in the final three laps of the race and although you need the final kick to close the deal an awful lot of racers with decent 5 second power fail to place in sprints because of their positioning in the final laps or their inability to fight hard to defend a good position near the front in the closing minutes of the race. High one minute power helps here, but it's not essential if you ride smart and assertively and are willing to do some work without necessarily leading out the sprint.

But yeah, if you develop more 1 minute power there are plenty of good places to use it during races and it opens up more options especially end game options like long solo flyers. But an awful lot of folks manage just fine without the 1 minute power of track specialists by tailoring their strategies to their strengths and riding smart.

-Dave
 
Originally Posted by 2011 SWORKS .

Thanks Dave,

You brought up a point that was on the tip of my tongue but I hesitated to ask, which is... where do I use my 1 minute max effort. Having that not even register on the WKO+ Power Profile was bothering me but if I am likely to never use it I guess it's no big deal.

Because I got passed at the finish line Wednesday at our Crit type training ride I was thinking that I need to figure out my 1 minute power but it does not sound like anyone would use a MAX 1 minute effort in a race. When I'm on a group ride & relatively "fresh" I have a great 15 second "kick" that guys I ride with can not stay with. I am confident that would put me in the mix of most CAT 4 or 5 races if I can figure out how to arrive at 200 meters from the finish somewhat fresh.... that is of coarse if the race was being conducted on paper or on a computer where racing smart and using tactics does not come in to play /img/vbsmilies/smilies/rolleyes.gif

I'll let you know how it goes this weekend.
Some tips.

Stay off the floor. Stay near the front and out of the wind unless absolutely necessary for reasons of attacking or safety. EVERYONE chases down ANYONE that tries to make a break for it. Treat it like poker on wheels and let everyone else put their nose in the wind.

Be Mr Anonymous until situations dictate otherwise and if it's a typical crit course with sweeping fast corners then sit in, sit down, stay calm, keep your head up and keep looking around - and don't stare at the wheel infront.

If there's a bunch of Cat4 guys, have a looksie to see if there's a team that has more riders than anyother. Watch those guys during the race and see if they react to moves more than other teams - if not, is there a team that's looking frisky? If there is then watch them and sit behind them. Is there one guy who does nothing from their team, if yes then it's a 50/50 gamble to guess that he's your wheel to sit on near the finish. 15 seconds - well, call it 10 and change because you'll be farked outa your head at the end, so you need to know where 200 yards to go is and where the wind is coming from.
 
Originally Posted by swampy1970 .




Some tips.

Stay off the floor. Stay near the front and out of the wind unless absolutely necessary for reasons of attacking or safety. EVERYONE chases down ANYONE that tries to make a break for it. Treat it like poker on wheels and let everyone else put their nose in the wind.

Be Mr Anonymous until situations dictate otherwise and if it's a typical crit course with sweeping fast corners then sit in, sit down, stay calm, keep your head up and keep looking around - and don't stare at the wheel in front.

If there's a bunch of Cat4 guys, have a looksie to see if there's a team that has more riders than anyother. Watch those guys during the race and see if they react to moves more than other teams - if not, is there a team that's looking frisky? If there is then watch them and sit behind them. Is there one guy who does nothing from their team, if yes then it's a 50/50 gamble to guess that he's your wheel to sit on near the finish. 15 seconds - well, call it 10 and change because you'll be farked outa your head at the end, so you need to know where 200 yards to go is and where the wind is coming from.

Ok, got it.
Optimistically speaking, if I have the fitness to hang in the front group from the get-go then that's what I'll do & do everything I can to keep my nose out of the wind. I'm telling myself not to chase down anything less than a 3 man break. Maybe not even that depending on the company & pace. There are 45 registered riders with quite a few CAT 4's representing teams that I know are strong. Temp's are to be in the 90's which does not favor the extra weight I'm lugging around the track.
I'm taking my trainer to warm up on (maybe 30minutes or so).
How long do folks typically get to ride the coarse as a warm up/ get familiarized with?
 
Despite the weight, you are pretty strong for a Cat 5. You should be able to do great. From your power profile you're definitely strong enough to win either from the break or in a pack sprint (and you could conceivably get in a break and have that fail then rest up and still sprint at the end). What you should NOT do is take a flyer on the last lap, as your power profile doesn't support that. In fact, you also don't seem like you have a great long sprint (your power drops off a lot), so you should try to get good position and break late rather than early. (I'm the opposite.) Your FTP is already pretty strong for a Cat 5 (even relative to weight), so if you want to focus on one thing in your training I would suggest losing a bit of weight. You don't need 200lbs to put out 1450watts. A second thing to focus on would be getting more aero as that will help you in a sprint or a break.

Moving on, what you really lack is experience. For the sprint finish, basically what you need to do is to figure out how to conserve energy and then be in the top 10 or so on the last lap. You can either stay top 10 the whole race, or just move up at the end. You've definitely got the strength to pull this off. If there's wind blowing try to be on the lee side of the pack at the finish line, but otherwise just find a good wheel (a strong guy who you think has a shot at the sprint win) and make good use of it. When you go for it, go all out all the way to the line.

Last piece of advice: in crits the rule I always follow is this: "Whatever you are doing, do it 100%!" I.e., if you are resting, make sure you are really resting in a good spot. Don't mess about and spend useless time in the wind. If you are in a break, go all out. Don't save yourself for later and don't mess around 20 meters in front of the pack waiting for something to happen. If noone comes with you you are on your own so either go for it or give up and rest in the pack. If you are sprinting, do it all out! I see a lot of guys half-ass'ing it and that just doesn't work. Don't second guess yourself. Make a decision as to what you are doing and go all in.
 
Frog Hollow Rd will be where you can expect attacks. Get to the front before the covered bridge. It's a deceptive hill and kicks up at the end.

Originally Posted by 2011 SWORKS .




Ok, got it.
Optimistically speaking, if I have the fitness to hang in the front group from the get-go then that's what I'll do & do everything I can to keep my nose out of the wind. I'm telling myself not to chase down anything less than a 3 man break. Maybe not even that depending on the company & pace. There are 45 registered riders with quite a few CAT 4's representing teams that I know are strong. Temp's are to be in the 90's which does not favor the extra weight I'm lugging around the track.
I'm taking my trainer to warm up on (maybe 30minutes or so).
How long do folks typically get to ride the coarse as a warm up/ get familiarized with?
 
Originally Posted by 2011 SWORKS .




Ok, got it.
Optimistically speaking, if I have the fitness to hang in the front group from the get-go then that's what I'll do & do everything I can to keep my nose out of the wind. I'm telling myself not to chase down anything less than a 3 man break. Maybe not even that depending on the company & pace. There are 45 registered riders with quite a few CAT 4's representing teams that I know are strong. Temp's are to be in the 90's which does not favor the extra weight I'm lugging around the track.
I'm taking my trainer to warm up on (maybe 30minutes or so).
How long do folks typically get to ride the coarse as a warm up/ get familiarized with?
Warm up rituals are very individualistic, I have teammates who are on a trainer for 60 minutes to get ready for a 40 minute crit. I'll usually ride around the actual course 5-10 times at near enough race speed in addition to a few miles near the course to warm up and make sure the body and bike are working together. I have done crits with as little as 10 minutes to warm up and was fine. The pace of cat 4 norcal crits isn't a whole lot faster than a warm-up until the last 10 laps.

Personally as a 5 I preferred 4/5 races and now as a 4 I prefer 3/4 races yes it's sometimes faster but its much smoother and you will see much better lines being chosen around corners. To me it feels safer. nothing sucks as bad as a 15 bicycle pile up in a cat 5 race because some guy was too nervous or just threw his face at the ground for no reason.

From one newbie racer to another I'll tell you STAY NEAR THE FRONT! I cannot stress that enough. You are strong enough to do a fair amount of work, recover, and still fight it out in a sprint. I have no doubt you'll be able to hang with the leaders, in fact it's easier than sitting at the back. You and I have similar wattage at threshold and I often find I can move up on the outside of the pack or break off the front without going above threshold, you're stronger than I am at anaerobic stuff. The big lesson is the more guys in front of you who can disrupt your progress the worse off you are. If the pace slows and allows the pack to swarm around you, this happens a lot a few laps from the finish, you'll have a hard time getting back to the front when the pace kicks up again, that energy might be better used with your nose in the wind until a team's leadout picks up the task.
 
Originally Posted by quenya .



Warm up rituals are very individualistic, I have teammates who are on a trainer for 60 minutes to get ready for a 40 minute crit. I'll usually ride around the actual course 5-10 times at near enough race speed in addition to a few miles near the course to warm up and make sure the body and bike are working together. I have done crits with as little as 10 minutes to warm up and was fine. The pace of cat 4 norcal crits isn't a whole lot faster than a warm-up until the last 10 laps.

Personally as a 5 I preferred 4/5 races and now as a 4 I prefer 3/4 races yes it's sometimes faster but its much smoother and you will see much better lines being chosen around corners. To me it feels safer. nothing sucks as bad as a 15 bicycle pile up in a cat 5 race because some guy was too nervous or just threw his face at the ground for no reason.

From one newbie racer to another I'll tell you STAY NEAR THE FRONT! I cannot stress that enough. You are strong enough to do a fair amount of work, recover, and still fight it out in a sprint. I have no doubt you'll be able to hang with the leaders, in fact it's easier than sitting at the back. You and I have similar wattage at threshold and I often find I can move up on the outside of the pack or break off the front without going above threshold, you're stronger than I am at anaerobic stuff. The big lesson is the more guys in front of you who can disrupt your progress the worse off you are. If the pace slows and allows the pack to swarm around you, this happens a lot a few laps from the finish, you'll have a hard time getting back to the front when the pace kicks up again, that energy might be better used with your nose in the wind until a team's leadout picks up the task.

All great points. So many different scenarios to consider.

Most times at our Crit type training rides what you've described about the pack swarming on the last laps happens. Since they are training rides I don't put much thought into tactics. Often times I'll sit on the front and do more than my fair share of pulls just to get a good workout in. Then the last 3.3 mile lap arrives and the entire pack slows down to recover for the sprint at the end. Then I have to work hard again to contend the sprint and usually get buried in the last couple hundred feet.
The one time I finished 1st I took off on the 3rd corner of the last lap with a very hard acceleration and stayed full gas to the end. I had been waiting for someone to blow past me at the end, but that did not happen. I never glanced behind me but was sure someone was sitting on my wheel.
I would be glad to finish this race in any position safely, but what I am dreaming about is FOR ONCE saving enough energy to lay down a max effort sprint to the finish.

Thanks for all the comments guys. Lots of intelligent points for newbies looking to race.
 
Originally Posted by 2011 SWORKS .

...The one time I finished 1st I took off on the 3rd corner of the last lap with a very hard acceleration and stayed full gas to the end. I had been waiting for someone to blow past me at the end, but that did not happen....
IMO, that's one of the best ways to place highly in a lower category crit and exactly what most Cat 4/5 riders avoid like the plague. Everyone knows enough about the theory of sprinting to know it's best not to leadout the sprint against fast sprinters. So suddenly on the last lap everyone tries to get real cagey and get someone else to lead out the sprint. Typically what happens is a big swarm from the rear that engulfs the leaders and then it's chaos to the finish and still folks are trying to be 'smart' so they wait and wait and by the time they jump it's too late and the race is over or they're so boxed in that there's nowhere to sprint.

Sticking your nose out in the wind at the end with what seems like an early backside flyer can be a really good idea when folks are trying too hard to find a wheel to follow. Sure if a strong sprinter happens to be lined up behind you when you take that early jump and you don't catch him napping then you'll likely get passed in the final meters. But leading out a big bunch sprint and taking 2nd, 4th, 5th or so beats the heck out of getting boxed in 20+ riders deep. If nothing else it starts teaching you how to keep yourself forward on the final lap of a crit and as your overall racing skills develop that ability can be essential to your end game.

Good luck,
-Dave
 





Well guys, I finished the omnium crit/road race somewhat safely.
No conversation or Internet discussion could have prepared me for what I experienced...just .... wow... just finishing that was such a feeling of accomplishment.

Average Power #'s from the Cat 4/5 Crit:

Total Average: 334
20 Minute: 348
5 Minute: 402

Saturday's Crite was hot & humid as hell and boy did I suffer. I stayed in the top 10 of the lead group for the first couple of laps but never took a pull in the very front. At around 30 minutes into the race I was in the lead group but could not hold on got shelled off the back and had to complete the last 3 laps on my own. Apparently there were more than 20 riders that did not/could not finish so finishing in (I believe 32nd of 46) will have to do for my first time out.

Average Power #'s from the Cat 4/5 Road Race the following Day:

Total Average: 285
20 Minute: 320
5 Minute 405

I placed much better in this 35 mile event (3 laps of 11.5 mile coarse which was flat with a 1 mile not steep climb to the finish). This was a 70+ man field. I finished mid pack at 30th position due to that damn climb at the end. I was in the very front group till the last climb and finished seconds behind the lead group. Very pleased with that.

After the road race a couple of the more experienced riders said this was the "Sketchiest" field they had ever ridden in. I would say it was at least 3 times more dangerous than the crit....absolutely terrifying. There was a covered bridge that had at least 2" gaps between the planked surface that everyone had difficulty with, a crash in the first lap that was horrible to hear took place just a couple of riders behind me. I just told myself not to look back and hold my line...but the sound of bike and people hitting the ground is just a very unpleasant thing to experience.
Then a rider clipped my rear wheel & the sound of spokes exploding was quite unnerving. Fortunately for me it was his front wheel that let go and I was able to ride through it.
Then the craziest thing happened. On the last lap of the mile long climb the field bunched up. Some clown forced me off of the road onto the wooded shoulder. For at least 8' I rode through tree branches, leaves, and things that should only be attempted on a mountain bike. I did not have a choice & I just pedaled through it and received some congratulations from the field, "Way to recover!!, Nice Job man, etc..."
I could not believe the next thing the rider that caused that incident did. I just recovered from what I still can not believe did not cause me to crash or flat... and remember we are on the last climb of the last lap and this same guy is riding in front of me (No one is riding close to him after what he just did to me) and out of the blue he just rides onto the wooded shoulder of the road for 6 to 9 feet and then back onto the tarmac again. I have no idea what the hell this guy was doing but man was it crazy.

I am so glad I took this first step in this awesome sport and entered my first race. If you are considering racing just do it.
The hunger for improvement this experience has given me is astounding. Can't wait for my next shot!!
Going to attach a photo or two.
-Cheers & thanks for all you input!!!



 
Nice. Sounds like you had fun...

... but I did tell you that you'd be farked out your head at the finish ;) Didn't want to mention that you'd be in that state much earlier in the race.
 
Enjoyed the ride report. Would have been interesting to have a video camera mounted to catch the off road experience. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif

Amazing they had you guys racing across the covered bridge. I guess one needs all sorts of skills for racing. Maybe even the Cavendish head butting skill so not to get pushed into the woods.

This is one that we often cross and we have still seen some serious crashes with either damp slick wood, tires getting caught in the grooves. There have been a couple that have gone off the bridge if you slide at just the right spot. We typically cross it now with a lot of caution. It probably would be fine for us right down the middle.

 
Awesome job man! You would be a cycling beast if you allowed yourself to lose like 30lbs. You won't lose any 20min power and you'll just destroy a Cat 4/5 field with those power numbers.
 
Originally Posted by Felt_Rider .


Amazing they had you guys racing across the covered bridge. I guess one needs all sorts of skills for racing. Maybe even the Cavendish head butting skill so not to get pushed into the woods.
Nah, Cav aint a headbutter - that was just a little "lean" that he gave Thor, as if to say "you're not taking my line, you Norweigian f*-k." When you have two guys that know the scoop is, it's not dangerous. Renshaw, he's got the old track art down... but alas as with everything else the sport is being pussified. You're no longer allowed to defend your line or in Renshaws case last year stop yourself from being pushed into the barriers, instead the UCI will start issuing pacifiers, blankies and band-aids with cuddly animals on them - but only if the saddle on your bike is level...

Riding across damp surfaces, especially slippery ones, is normally best done sat way back on the saddle with only a very light grip of the bars. Back in England I used to go over some roads in early spring that were covered in a fine green layer of moss, having not seen sunlight for several months and that'd make for some interesting moments. Sit back, pedal smoothly and relax... Same deal with web cobbles.
 
Originally Posted by swampy1970 .

Nice. Sounds like you had fun...

... but I did tell you that you'd be farked out your head at the finish ;) Didn't want to mention that you'd be in that state much earlier in the race.

I know, I know... but it wouldn't have mattered anyway. Like I said, no Internet discussion could have prepared me for what happened.
 
Quote:Originally Posted by Felt_Rider .


Enjoyed the ride report. Would have been interesting to have a video camera mounted to catch the off road experience. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif

Amazing they had you guys racing across the covered bridge. I guess one needs all sorts of skills for racing. Maybe even the Cavendish head butting skill so not to get pushed into the woods.

This is one that we often cross and we have still seen some serious crashes with either damp slick wood, tires getting caught in the grooves. There have been a couple that have gone off the bridge if you slide at just the right spot. We typically cross it now with a lot of caution. It probably would be fine for us right down the middle.
500


Down the middle would be ok but I hate riding along side/ parallel to the gaps in the planks. I live in Lancaster, PA where there are hundreds of scenic covered bridges but I don't care to ever ride my bike across one again.

Being my first race and all, I wasn't sure of the protocol when being run of the road. At the point when that took place we were probably 5 riders wide across the road. My first reaction was to get off the road instead of taking out several other riders trying to defend myself. Just very thankful no one went down or got hurt. I really hope I would have able to somewhat hold my cool if his actions cause me to injure myself or someone in the group.

I had no idea bike racing was this dangerous.